Bears select Luke Newman, OL at #195

[adam]

Michigan State OT/OG, a lot of experience, projects at OG or OC. 

[dawhizz]

Short arms are concerning. Interesting to see Poles relent on that a little after showing a propensity for long arms in O-linemen previously. Maybe the influence of the new O-line coach?
 

[dawhizz]

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Protectable center or guard option - real good draft pick this late. 

[AZ54]

59 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

Short arms are concerning. Interesting to see Poles relent on that a little after showing a propensity for long arms in O-linemen previously. Maybe the influence of the new O-line coach?
 

Future OC?   

[Stinger226]

When you never have heard about someone, you automatically dismiss him. If you watching film, you will understand why they took him 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

When you never have heard about someone, you automatically dismiss him. If you watching film, you will understand why they took him 

I wept a tear of joy when you posted this!

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

When you never have heard about someone, you automatically dismiss him. If you watching film, you will understand why they took him 

Hopefully yes that is true.  When the only film you can find is the guy jumping out of a pool it doesn't work.  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Hopefully yes that is true.  When the only film you can find is the guy jumping out of a pool it doesn't work.  

That was nice tape for a non football player.  The combine snubbed him so he got lost in transition. These are the types that start in 2 yrs and play 10. 

[Stinger226]

To me this could be a Trey Smith pick, major school, taken in later rounds ends up being very good. 

[Stinger226]

I watch some tape on Newman and on  one play the defense was stunting. He slung the first guy on the ground slide to the right and knocked that guy on the ground. Went down field in front of the RB and run over another defender to the ground. Literally blocked 3 guys and everyone got the ground. It was awesome. I'll try to find it.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I watch some tape on Newman and on  one play the defense was stunting. He slung the first guy on the ground slide to the right and knocked that guy on the ground. Went down field in front of the RB and run over another defender to the ground. Literally blocked 3 guys and everyone got the ground. It was awesome. I'll try to find it.

I think there’sa link in Jacob Infantes story on Windy City gridiron.  

[Stinger226]

43 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I think there’sa link in Jacob Infantes story on Windy City gridiron.  

I'll look for it. I watched so many videos, I lose track where I seen it. Thanks 

[Stinger226]

21 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I wept a tear of joy when you posted this!

I find it interesting that you don't think other people look at tape in evaluation of every player. It's always 80% of any experts evaluation. So let me know what you think about Newman?

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I find it interesting that you don't think other people look at tape in evaluation of every player.

I didnt say *I* have to see tape - you just talked about how important it is to see it yourself, and so when I "wept a tear of joy" it was because you were finally agreeing and saying youd look at the tape - so how do i think other people dont? I was saying i hope you DO!

I think people look and we all have opinions, and I dont think anyone's opinion is fact, just another opinion, whether its me or you or some pundit.

But occasionally I will see something so clear that i am shocked anyone else looks at film and thinks something different. It's only like 1 or 2 "facts" a year. Not everything at all. Most things are murky.

[Stinger226]

10 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I didnt say *I* have to see tape - you just talked about how important it is to see it yourself, and so when I "wept a tear of joy" it was because you were finally agreeing and saying youd look at the tape - so how do i think other people dont? I was saying i hope you DO!

I think people look and we all have opinions, and I dont think anyone's opinion is fact, just another opinion, whether its me or you or some pundit.

But occasionally I will see something so clear that i am shocked anyone else looks at film and thinks something different. It's only like 1 or 2 "facts" a year. Not everything at all. Most things are murky.

With all this back and forth we are in alignment on a lot of things. Tape is the most important tool scouts use.

We do need to address LT but,they did as I thought and drafted someone to be in the mix in 26 , not this year. I think Braxton plays this year, they offer him a contract but someone gives him 20 mil and he plays somewhere else. So next year Kiran or Tripoli will be our LT. 

RB needed another addition but never thought Jeanty was in the mix. I thought Skattebo or Brashard Smith would be drafted later to share carries with RJ and Swift.

So it all come down to our opinion on the urgency of those positions. I also respect your opinion more than it might show. I don't always agree but you have been spot on with some you have been stubborn about. 

I loved Fields more so because ( he was our QB) at the time and if  he succeeded that meant the Bears are winning. As soon as Poles choose Caleb, he's our new QB to rout for and has a lot of talent .

You were right about Flus, at the time I thought with drafting Caleb we could overcome his deficiencies but the calamity of our OCs doomed the success and after the Washington game. He lost the team, my time to start agreeing with you.

We align on a lot of things but our dislike for each other prevents us from showing it. 

Our next argument is Poles that is on going. He has made a lot of mistakes but has us in a good spot now. New GMs learn on the job and I think he is.

When we're  in a SB, we will be arguing about what play should have been called. I look forward to that.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

With all this back and forth we are in alignment on a lot of things. Tape is the most important tool scouts use.

We do need to address LT but,they did as I thought and drafted someone to be in the mix in 26 , not this year. I think Braxton plays this year, they offer him a contract but someone gives him 20 mil and he plays somewhere else. So next year Kiran or Tripoli will be our LT. 

RB needed another addition but never thought Jeanty was in the mix. I thought Skattebo or Brashard Smith would be drafted later to share carries with RJ and Swift.

So it all come down to our opinion on the urgency of those positions. I also respect your opinion more than it might show. I don't always agree but you have been spot on with some you have been stubborn about. 

I loved Fields more so because ( he was our QB) at the time and if  he succeeded that meant the Bears are winning. As soon as Poles choose Caleb, he's our new QB to rout for and has a lot of talent .

You were right about Flus, at the time I thought with drafting Caleb we could overcome his deficiencies but the calamity of our OCs doomed the success and after the Washington game. He lost the team, my time to start agreeing with you.

We align on a lot of things but our dislike for each other prevents us from showing it. 

Our next argument is Poles that is on going. He has made a lot of mistakes but has us in a good spot now. New GMs learn on the job and I think he is.

When we're  in a SB, we will be arguing about what play should have been called. I look forward to that.

hahaha me too!

As Ive said before, i think you are loyal to anyone on our team, and I am more like loyal to the team, and not specifically the players on it. Each way is good.

Just dont worry if people are criticizing. Poles' feelings arent hurt by anything i say, and if any coach or player or GM does good things, I'll support those things, and Ill criticize the bad stuff. All hoping to make the team better.

Also, believe it or not I dont dislike you. I just dont like when you say things are facts when they arent really proven. As you agree, most things are opinions and cant really be proved.

But I dont want to argue with you in particular, I just dont like when you say some pundit says something so it must be right. i will be wrong plenty, so will you and so will the pundits, but my belief is that all of us have valid opinions in general? I dont care if some big shot disagrees with me, if i see what I see, then i know what i saw.

But with most things, there isnt enough to see to KNOW. Only a few things every year for me that i feel I really know.

Like I KNOW Banks is a good prospect, but couldnt possibly know if the Bears would take him or not.

[Stinger226]

The Banks argument is mute, he wasn't available. 

When I mention a football pundit, you don't like that because I should think for myself. I combine everything I see and read to form an opinion. 

I get the impression you think your opinion is because you're great at looking at tape. Then on several occasions you referred to draft buzz ratings and what Phil and his dad said. That's not any different than what I do. Your opinion is a composite of everything you learn about a player.

Same same 

[BearFan PHX]

I AM NOT GREAT AT LOOKING AT TAPE.

Ive said it a thousand times. i think if ANYONE looked at the tape they would see the same things I see.

And I dont have a thousand opinions from looking at tape. Just a couple. A couple of things stood out to me. I am not saying I am the greatest evaluator, Im just saying that for example Banks looked really good on tape and I didnt understand people like Brugler who had him going in the 20s.

What I was saying was that every time you negated my opinion, or a lot of other people's here, you did it by invoking the great and powerful Brugler. As if he was the final word. And he isnt. Hes just another opinion.

I was saying stop telling us all that your source knows and we cant possibly because we are just fans. If that was true, then shut down this board and we can all read Brugler.

What is so hard about that?

As to your other point that the Banks pick was "mute" (the word is moot) I said I KNEW that he was good - and his selection at 9 proved that i was right. But I also didnt know if the Bears would pick him at 10 or not. You misread that, like so many things I say, that I was saying the Bears WOULD have taken him, when actually in all humility, I was saying that I couldnt possibly know that.

Seriously, do you read these posts and post when youre drunk? Im not being mean, Im actually asking.

 

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I AM NOT GREAT AT LOOKING AT TAPE.

Ive said it a thousand times. i think if ANYONE looked at the tape they would see the same things I see.

And I dont have a thousand opinions from looking at tape. Just a couple. A couple of things stood out to me. I am not saying I am the greatest evaluator, Im just saying that for example Banks looked really good on tape and I didnt understand people like Brugler who had him going in the 20s.

What I was saying was that every time you negated my opinion, or a lot of other people's here, you did it by invoking the great and powerful Brugler. As if he was the final word. And he isnt. Hes just another opinion.

I was saying stop telling us all that your source knows and we cant possibly because we are just fans. If that was true, then shut down this board and we can all read Brugler.

What is so hard about that?

As to your other point that the Banks pick was "mute" (the word is moot) I said I KNEW that he was good - and his selection at 9 proved that i was right. But I also didnt know if the Bears would pick him at 10 or not. You misread that, like so many things I say, that I was saying the Bears WOULD have taken him, when actually in all humility, I was saying that I couldnt possibly know that.

Seriously, do you read these posts and post when youre drunk? Im not being mean, Im actually asking.

 

No that's just you being you. You always say ( I don't mean it  to sound like an insult ) right before you insult me. I have accepted your insults a long time ago.

When I give my opinion I don't have the ego to insult people's intelligentence by saying my view of a player is better than well respected football pundits. Other people bring the same people up when talking about players but I'm drunk because you keep repeating to nausea on a point but  I don't understand.

You are not the only person on this thread. Other people are not going to pay attention to my posts if I don't support them with experts opinions that they respect.

I don't care if you do.

Banks was the 3rd T taken in a weak LT draft. The point of my talking about him was always , I didn't think the bears are taking him.  

A lot of my posts aren't always constructed well because being 12 hours different in time, Im looking at stuff in the middle of the night when I go to the bathroom. My brain isn't functioning quite well in brief comment moments. 

I told you ( I don't like you) was just being honest.  Your response was ( I don't dislike you) is bullshit. 

I will say your insults are much  better now than the ( you're a pedophile )  because I live in Thailand during the winter.

 

[BearFan PHX]

Im saying you dont read what i write and instead respond to things I didnt say.

Also, invoking experts is FINE, saying that they are experts and we cant know because we are just fans is the problem.

Anything that is an opinion is fine. Anything that is presented as factual, is up for debate on the merits.

As for the worse insults, that wasnt because we were disagreeing, it was because of the way you were speaking to me then. You havent done anything like that since, so its all good.

And yes, I would LOVE to not be in a "feud" with you. Thats really the truth. When we agree I always go out of my way to say so. I would prefer mutual respect, i really would.

But sometimes we see things very differently, and that's OK, and then we disagree. But when you try to "prove" things, and the logic isnt sound thats usually where the disagreements come from. And all thats OK.

Nothing about the way weve been speaking to eachother since back then has been inappropriate, so Im not angry about any of it.

[Stinger226]

This is a on going stupid conversation.

Adam , how do I do poll to see if members think Bearfan or Dan Jeremiah, Dane Brugler, ect have more trusted opinions on player evaluations. Bearfan doesn't like that I inject other names in forming my opinion.

I guarantee if I told everyone that I was smarter than known ( experts that spend all year evaluating players) no one would bother reading my posts. 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

This is a on going stupid conversation.

Adam , how do I do poll to see if members think Bearfan or Dan Jeremiah, Dane Brugler, ect have more trusted opinions on player evaluations. Bearfan doesn't like that I inject other names in forming my opinion.

I guarantee if I told everyone that I was smarter than known ( experts that spend all year evaluating players) no one would bother reading my posts. 

If you really want to do a poll make sure to include the collective opinion of "the board" because I'll take that any day over any analyst.   That may sound like nonsense but the varied opinions and the debate here all add more value to my evaluation of players than any 10-20s clip from Brugler or Jeremiah.  Yet through it all, not one of us, nor "the board" is completely correct.   

FWIW I find I disagree with Jeremiah and Brugler a fair amount, even though I like both.  Shedeur Sanders getting drafted where most future backup QBs get drafted was a correct call by me.  If you listen to them enough you can figure out what traits they prefer the  most in their evaluations.   But what trait does your coach value the most?  What traits fit your scheme the best?   What role does your coach plan to use that player for?   Those topics are all discussed here best.  In the end Jeremiah had Banks listed as 27th overall and the next day he put out his last mock draft and had him going in the top 10.  That type of cognitive dissonance is all over the draft media landscape.  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

If you really want to do a poll make sure to include the collective opinion of "the board" because I'll take that any day over any analyst.   That may sound like nonsense but the varied opinions and the debate here all add more value to my evaluation of players than any 10-20s clip from Brugler or Jeremiah.  Yet through it all, not one of us, nor "the board" is completely correct.   

FWIW I find I disagree with Jeremiah and Brugler a fair amount, even though I like both.  Shedeur Sanders getting drafted where most future backup QBs get drafted was a correct call by me.  If you listen to them enough you can figure out what traits they prefer the  most in their evaluations.   But what trait does your coach value the most?  What traits fit your scheme the best?   What role does your coach plan to use that player for?   Those topics are all discussed here best.  In the end Jeremiah had Banks listed as 27th overall and the next day he put out his last mock draft and had him going in the top 10.  That type of cognitive dissonance is all over the draft media landscape.  

I do too but the information they give has  value.  I  I read and watch a ton of stuff to form my opinion. I don't think anyone has a Bible on football evaluation.  Some pundits that watches every bite of tape of a player has a better perspective than my highlight films and a few games. The poll is just a pushback on desert boy because he constantly dismisses them because they don't agree with him. I was never serious about the poll 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Bearfan doesn't like that I inject other names in forming my opinion.

Lie. I dont care who anyone reads.

You have, like 50 times, said "well youre just a fan and the pros know better" and THAT is discounting my right to an opinion.

That's ALL this is about. You saying my (and others') people's opinions arent valid because someone else said something.

If you said "Brugler says this and i think hes right" then that is FINE. But you keep saying "youre just a fan, so you dont know" is the what I'm talking about. It's BS. Everyone on this board has a right to an opinion, and we should debate the merits, not dismiss people because Bugler Mr "Banks will never go in the top 10" said something. He has a right to his opinion, and we have a right to ours.