QB Roster Question

[BearFan PHX]

Caleb is the starter. I am a huge fan of Tyson Bagent's as well. I think he is the backup. Case Keenum is here to provice Caleb with advice from his experience.

So do we keep 3 QBs on the roster? If you put Bagent on the practice squad someone will steal him and make him QB2 somewhere. And Keenum is too old to even put on the PS.

What do you think we will do?

If we get a good trade offer for Bagent, then I understand that - but they JUST extended him, but I guess that also might help bring interest in a trade too...

I think Bagent is a more valuable backup than Keenum, but is Keenum just for training camp?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Caleb is the starter. I am a huge fan of Tyson Bagent's as well. I think he is the backup. Case Keenum is here to provice Caleb with advice from his experience.

So do we keep 3 QBs on the roster? If you put Bagent on the practice squad someone will steal him and make him QB2 somewhere. And Keenum is too old to even put on the PS.

What do you think we will do?

If we get a good trade offer for Bagent, then I understand that - but they JUST extended him, but I guess that also might help bring interest in a trade too...

I think Bagent is a more valuable backup than Keenum, but is Keenum just for training camp?

Reports about Caleb not getting film help tells me we are going 3 QBs.  He needed this last year, but it's the Bears and they dont know what to do.  Keenum will teach him the ropes from what BJ wants.  BJ will do his film time but Keenum will help answer questions and do film in between.  

[Stinger226]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Caleb is the starter. I am a huge fan of Tyson Bagent's as well. I think he is the backup. Case Keenum is here to provice Caleb with advice from his experience.

So do we keep 3 QBs on the roster? If you put Bagent on the practice squad someone will steal him and make him QB2 somewhere. And Keenum is too old to even put on the PS.

What do you think we will do?

If we get a good trade offer for Bagent, then I understand that - but they JUST extended him, but I guess that also might help bring interest in a trade too...

I think Bagent is a more valuable backup than Keenum, but is Keenum just for training camp?

When they brought in Keenum, they pretty well made the decision to keep 3 on the roster. There is someone else on the roster they can hide on the practice squad. They are allowed to carry two vets on the PS. Maybe one of the WRs? 

[adam]

11 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Caleb is the starter. I am a huge fan of Tyson Bagent's as well. I think he is the backup. Case Keenum is here to provice Caleb with advice from his experience.

So do we keep 3 QBs on the roster? If you put Bagent on the practice squad someone will steal him and make him QB2 somewhere. And Keenum is too old to even put on the PS.

What do you think we will do?

If we get a good trade offer for Bagent, then I understand that - but they JUST extended him, but I guess that also might help bring interest in a trade too...

I think Bagent is a more valuable backup than Keenum, but is Keenum just for training camp?

So with the new rule added in 2023, there is a good chance they go with 3 QBs on the 53-man. 

Without a 3rd QB, you can only have 48 players active on game day, so 5 players on the 53-man don't dress every week. However, the 3rd QB does not count towards the 48. So if they did keep Keenum, he would take up a 53-man slot but would not impact the game-day 48-man roster (and would actually make it 49).

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

38 minutes ago, adam said:

So with the new rule added in 2023, there is a good chance they go with 3 QBs on the 53-man. 

Without a 3rd QB, you can only have 48 players active on game day, so 5 players on the 53-man don't dress every week. However, the 3rd QB does not count towards the 48. So if they did keep Keenum, he would take up a 53-man slot but would not impact the game-day 48-man roster (and would actually make it 49).

 

Tory Taylor was designated as an international player,does that open a slot when setting game day actives?

[AZ54]

12 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Reports about Caleb not getting film help tells me we are going 3 QBs.  He needed this last year, but it's the Bears and they dont know what to do.  Keenum will teach him the ropes from what BJ wants.  BJ will do his film time but Keenum will help answer questions and do film in between.  

Caleb has millions of dollars and has for many years.  There is nothing stopping him from hiring a former QB or two to assist him in watching film since he feels this is so challenging.   

[adam]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Tory Taylor was designated as an international player,does that open a slot when setting game day actives?

No, as far I can tell, that is only for the offseason 90-man roster, which the league gives exemptions for international players (1 per roster). 

[adam]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Caleb has millions of dollars and has for many years.  There is nothing stopping him from hiring a former QB or two to assist him in watching film since he feels this is so challenging.   

The only statement I saw was that Caleb said no one from the team "told him what to watch".  That doesn't mean he doesn't know "how" to watch tape or that he didn't. 

[BearFan PHX]

I am sure Williams knows how to watch tape generically. I'm sure he can look at generic film, and tell you everything just like J T O'Sullivan or Kurt Warner does.

I took Williams meaning differently. I took him to mean that they weren't watching film on the defense of that week's opponent while relating that to the week's gameplan.

For example, if the OC sees that a certain LBer always shades inside vs the TE against a certain offensive alignment, the OC might call some plays where the TE runs a quick out, accompanied by a WR running a go route on that side to drag defenders out of the area for the TE underneath.

So he puts in the play. Does he tell Caleb, hey we see the LB leaning pre sanp so thats why were calling this play? Does he show him on film what the reasoning behind including this play is in the week's game plan? Or does he just tell Caleb, "learn this play, run it when we call it, the TE is read #1" and leave it at that.

Because if he doesn't explain it, and Caleb comes to the line with that LB shading outside for once, he should know that the theory of the play means the gambit is off.

Maybe, it makes Caleb more likely to audible to a run offtackle to the strong side so the TE has a good blocking angle on the shaded LB.

So either

1) Caleb is a baby who cant read generic film, like identifying defenses and needs his hand held, and should have hired someone to do it, and is ridiculous for criticizing how he was developed by the fine staff of Eberflus and Waldron

OR

2) Caleb is telling you something real, because he's the #1 pick QB who knows a shit ton about football, and it trying to tell you that Flus and Waldron did a crap job of teaching him, and preparing him for each week to understand the intention of the game plan. And what we saw is that there was no game plan in the first place.

If it really was Caleb, and they thought Waldron was doing a great job of putting everyone in the best place to succeed, then he wouldnt have gotten fired so early in the season.

They didn't develop Caleb. It's actually shocking. Waldron and Eberflus were complete frauds as OC and HC. I cant wait to see Johnson and Williams prove it to everyone.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I am sure Williams knows how to watch tape generically. I'm sure he can look at generic film, and tell you everything just like J T O'Sullivan or Kurt Warner does.

I took Williams meaning differently. I took him to mean that they weren't watching film on the defense of that week's opponent while relating that to the week's gameplan.

For example, if the OC sees that a certain LBer always shades inside vs the TE against a certain offensive alignment, the OC might call some plays where the TE runs a quick out, accompanied by a WR running a go route on that side to drag defenders out of the area for the TE underneath.

So he puts in the play. Does he tell Caleb, hey we see the LB leaning pre sanp so thats why were calling this play? Does he show him on film what the reasoning behind including this play is in the week's game plan? Or does he just tell Caleb, "learn this play, run it when we call it, the TE is read #1" and leave it at that.

Because if he doesn't explain it, and Caleb comes to the line with that LB shading outside for once, he should know that the theory of the play means the gambit is off.

Maybe, it makes Caleb more likely to audible to a run offtackle to the strong side so the TE has a good blocking angle on the shaded LB.

So either

1) Caleb is a baby who cant read generic film, like identifying defenses and needs his hand held, and should have hired someone to do it, and is ridiculous for criticizing how he was developed by the fine staff of Eberflus and Waldron

OR

2) Caleb is telling you something real, because he's the #1 pick QB who knows a shit ton about football, and it trying to tell you that Flus and Waldron did a crap job of teaching him, and preparing him for each week to understand the intention of the game plan. And what we saw is that there was no game plan in the first place.

If it really was Caleb, and they thought Waldron was doing a great job of putting everyone in the best place to succeed, then he wouldnt have gotten fired so early in the season.

They didn't develop Caleb. It's actually shocking. Waldron and Eberflus were complete frauds as OC and HC. I cant wait to see Johnson and Williams prove it to everyone.

I think the reality is more of this is via Caleb’s dad than via him. But I have seen a few quotes from camp about Ben Johnson ripping Kmet a new one for lining up in wrong position etc. Evidently he did same to Caleb for a big play that worked but was not the right decision. I LOVE it. For years Bears coaches and players were too soft - they need someone with a totally different standard. 
 

Bears evidently also did some 6 on 7 today which is not something they have done regularly. This forces Caleb to be even sharper with his reads and throws since defense has more numbers. Again I love it. 
 

I’ve told myself I won’t get too excited without seeing real production on field - but dang it I can’t help myself. 

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I am sure Williams knows how to watch tape generically. I'm sure he can look at generic film, and tell you everything just like J T O'Sullivan or Kurt Warner does.

I took Williams meaning differently. I took him to mean that they weren't watching film on the defense of that week's opponent while relating that to the week's gameplan.

For example, if the OC sees that a certain LBer always shades inside vs the TE against a certain offensive alignment, the OC might call some plays where the TE runs a quick out, accompanied by a WR running a go route on that side to drag defenders out of the area for the TE underneath.

So he puts in the play. Does he tell Caleb, hey we see the LB leaning pre sanp so thats why were calling this play? Does he show him on film what the reasoning behind including this play is in the week's game plan? Or does he just tell Caleb, "learn this play, run it when we call it, the TE is read #1" and leave it at that.

Because if he doesn't explain it, and Caleb comes to the line with that LB shading outside for once, he should know that the theory of the play means the gambit is off.

Maybe, it makes Caleb more likely to audible to a run offtackle to the strong side so the TE has a good blocking angle on the shaded LB.

So either

1) Caleb is a baby who cant read generic film, like identifying defenses and needs his hand held, and should have hired someone to do it, and is ridiculous for criticizing how he was developed by the fine staff of Eberflus and Waldron

OR

2) Caleb is telling you something real, because he's the #1 pick QB who knows a shit ton about football, and it trying to tell you that Flus and Waldron did a crap job of teaching him, and preparing him for each week to understand the intention of the game plan. And what we saw is that there was no game plan in the first place.

If it really was Caleb, and they thought Waldron was doing a great job of putting everyone in the best place to succeed, then he wouldnt have gotten fired so early in the season.

They didn't develop Caleb. It's actually shocking. Waldron and Eberflus were complete frauds as OC and HC. I cant wait to see Johnson and Williams prove it to everyone.

If Caleb is what we've been told he is he wouldn't be out there pushing books and making excuses for his poor play because of his coaches.   I watched several players in yesterday's press conference get asked pointed questions about the previous coaching and each of them declined.   Tremaine Edmunds simply said he didn't want to talk about who was here last year but he's happy to about who is here this year and what we're doing now.   

Waldron was horrible at his job.  It seemed each week we had at least one play where 3 receivers were at the same area of the field.  The play calling didn't fit the game situations too often.  Seeing how discombobulated the team was run on game days it's not a surprise that Flus nor Waldron had someone assigned to "setup" film for Caleb.  That's the kind of stuff Quality control coaches do or some other entry level coach.   But Caleb has a lot of connections he could have found help if he wanted it.  If his father was so concerned to make sure his son was going to succeed why didn't he hire some help for Caleb?    Can't make a call to Lincoln Riley for a reference?  No call to the former OC, who is now in Washington helping Jayden Daniels, asking for a referral?    We know Caleb has Tom Brady's phone number.  

I'm actually 100% confident Caleb knows how to watch film and knows how to read defenses because I saw it often last year, both pre-snap and post-snap.   Was he making the right decisions all the time?  Absolutely not because he'd bypass the easy gain and look for the big play quite often.   Or he relied on Keenan ... a lot.    

What I want from him is leadership.  If I were his teammate I'd be wondering if he'll be talking about me in his book next year.  I want him out in front of this.  I want to know if he's just a fair weather guy who mopes about and makes excuses and blames other if things don't go his way or can he handle the storm, and the media heat, and lead this team out of a rut when things go wrong.  

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I think the reality is more of this is via Caleb’s dad than via him. But I have seen a few quotes from camp about Ben Johnson ripping Kmet a new one for lining up in wrong position etc. Evidently he did same to Caleb for a big play that worked but was not the right decision. I LOVE it. For years Bears coaches and players were too soft - they need someone with a totally different standard. 
 

Bears evidently also did some 6 on 7 today which is not something they have done regularly. This forces Caleb to be even sharper with his reads and throws since defense has more numbers. Again I love it. 
 

I’ve told myself I won’t get too excited without seeing real production on field - but dang it I can’t help myself. 

agree a lot of it is his dad. and some of it was how unprofessional the coaching was last year too. I guess Caleb did let some inside stuff out.

I am SO glad to hear players are getting chewed out. LOVE accountability.

And I know, we have to see it on the field, but it sure seems like we arent going to be clowns like we usually are. At least we will be a pro football team. I'm excited too!

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, AZ54 said:

If Caleb is what we've been told he is he wouldn't be out there pushing books and making excuses for his poor play because of his coaches.   I watched several players in yesterday's press conference get asked pointed questions about the previous coaching and each of them declined.   Tremaine Edmunds simply said he didn't want to talk about who was here last year but he's happy to about who is here this year and what we're doing now.   

Waldron was horrible at his job.  It seemed each week we had at least one play where 3 receivers were at the same area of the field.  The play calling didn't fit the game situations too often.  Seeing how discombobulated the team was run on game days it's not a surprise that Flus nor Waldron had someone assigned to "setup" film for Caleb.  That's the kind of stuff Quality control coaches do or some other entry level coach.   But Caleb has a lot of connections he could have found help if he wanted it.  If his father was so concerned to make sure his son was going to succeed why didn't he hire some help for Caleb?    Can't make a call to Lincoln Riley for a reference?  No call to the former OC, who is now in Washington helping Jayden Daniels, asking for a referral?    We know Caleb has Tom Brady's phone number.  

I'm actually 100% confident Caleb knows how to watch film and knows how to read defenses because I saw it often last year, both pre-snap and post-snap.   Was he making the right decisions all the time?  Absolutely not because he'd bypass the easy gain and look for the big play quite often.   Or he relied on Keenan ... a lot.    

What I want from him is leadership.  If I were his teammate I'd be wondering if he'll be talking about me in his book next year.  I want him out in front of this.  I want to know if he's just a fair weather guy who mopes about and makes excuses and blames other if things don't go his way or can he handle the storm, and the media heat, and lead this team out of a rut when things go wrong.  

I agree with the second half of this, but im not sure how you can hire someone to watch film with you, if what was missing was the rationale for the week's gameplan. Youd need someone who understood it to point it out? A third party wouldnt know that?

But then again, maybe there WAS no coherent offensive strategy. Maybe the didnt teach it because they didnt have one - just a collection of plays, but no real strategy.

I am pretty sure Calebs comments about Flus and Waldron occurred before Ben Johnson was hired? The guy writing the book is why it's back in the press. Caleb isnt talking about it now?

I agree with you about Calebs decision making last year too. Hopefully thats an area where Ben Johnson can really bring Caleb along.

BUt i think the film watching that was missing wasnt regular generalized film watching, but rather a cohesive plan from the coaches that the offense could execute. That's how I read it anyway.

Thank god those guys are gone!

[Stinger226]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

If Caleb is what we've been told he is he wouldn't be out there pushing books and making excuses for his poor play because of his coaches.   I watched several players in yesterday's press conference get asked pointed questions about the previous coaching and each of them declined.   Tremaine Edmunds simply said he didn't want to talk about who was here last year but he's happy to about who is here this year and what we're doing now.   

Waldron was horrible at his job.  It seemed each week we had at least one play where 3 receivers were at the same area of the field.  The play calling didn't fit the game situations too often.  Seeing how discombobulated the team was run on game days it's not a surprise that Flus nor Waldron had someone assigned to "setup" film for Caleb.  That's the kind of stuff Quality control coaches do or some other entry level coach.   But Caleb has a lot of connections he could have found help if he wanted it.  If his father was so concerned to make sure his son was going to succeed why didn't he hire some help for Caleb?    Can't make a call to Lincoln Riley for a reference?  No call to the former OC, who is now in Washington helping Jayden Daniels, asking for a referral?    We know Caleb has Tom Brady's phone number.  

I'm actually 100% confident Caleb knows how to watch film and knows how to read defenses because I saw it often last year, both pre-snap and post-snap.   Was he making the right decisions all the time?  Absolutely not because he'd bypass the easy gain and look for the big play quite often.   Or he relied on Keenan ... a lot.    

What I want from him is leadership.  If I were his teammate I'd be wondering if he'll be talking about me in his book next year.  I want him out in front of this.  I want to know if he's just a fair weather guy who mopes about and makes excuses and blames other if things don't go his way or can he handle the storm, and the media heat, and lead this team out of a rut when things go wrong.  

He has yet to address this, he is not going around pushing this book. His dad is and the media are. Any talk of not wanting to not play for the Bears was very early in the process and when he met Poles at Hallas Hall, he bought into playing here. This is a nonstory because he doesnt feel that way now. This is media blowing everything up. Him watching tape by himself is taken to mean he didnt have any coaching which is not true. Good QBs do that all the time. The writer is pushing certain narratives to sell the book. Now the coaching was bad but it doesnt mean they didnt try to help him. 

[BearFan PHX]

Here's an interesting idea. Im not saying it will happen, but it has occurred to me.

Given these facts:

Case Keenum has said in interviews that he had planned to retire before this offseason, and then he met with Ben Johnson, and that turned him around.

Keenum's primary role on this team is to mentor Caleb.

We just paid Tyson Bagent, extending his contract.

Roster spots are precious.

Is it possible that Keenum will transition from player to coach when we cut down the roster? I could see him as Caleb's mentor, and he doesnt need to be a player to do that.

Just thinking about stuff. Not saying i know it will happen, but it does fit the facts, and open a roster spot on the 53?



 

[adam]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Here's an interesting idea. Im not saying it will happen, but it has occurred to me.

Given these facts:

Case Keenum has said in interviews that he had planned to retire before this offseason, and then he met with Ben Johnson, and that turned him around.

Keenum's primary role on this team is to mentor Caleb.

We just paid Tyson Bagent, extending his contract.

Roster spots are precious.

Is it possible that Keenum will transition from player to coach when we cut down the roster? I could see him as Caleb's mentor, and he doesnt need to be a player to do that.

Just thinking about stuff. Not saying i know it will happen, but it does fit the facts, and open a roster spot on the 53?



 

It could happen, but with the emergency QB thing, it wouldn't impact the game day roster as all. As for the 53-man, the bottom 3-5 guys come up and down from the PS anyway, so having one fewer guy do that to have a 3rd QB (if he is that important) seems like a no brainer.

[BearFan PHX]

35 minutes ago, adam said:

It could happen, but with the emergency QB thing, it wouldn't impact the game day roster as all. As for the 53-man, the bottom 3-5 guys come up and down from the PS anyway, so having one fewer guy do that to have a 3rd QB (if he is that important) seems like a no brainer.

true. the 3rd emergency QB doesnt count against the gameday 47 or 48 or whatever that number is.

But if that costs us one of our drafted guys getting poached off of the practice squad, then all the more reason to have taken a HB earlier and not trade down?

[adam]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

true. the 3rd emergency QB doesnt count against the gameday 47 or 48 or whatever that number is.

But if that costs us one of our drafted guys getting poached off of the practice squad, then all the more reason to have taken a HB earlier and not trade down?

The only way a PS guy gets poached is if he is signed to another team's 53-man roster, so that process would only be indirectly impacted by keeping Keenum on the 53-man.

So if Keenum was on the roster last year, he would've replaced Blasingame or Velus based on usage.

 Blasingame = 10 snaps + 25 ST snaps
Jones Jr. = 4 snaps + 12 ST snaps

If he makes it this year, he would either replace RB5 or WR6

Right now that is Scott or Toure as WR6 or the loser of Monangai or Wheeler as RB5. If Monangai loses out, he is a PS Candidate anyway. It doesn't seem like Keenum would negatively impact the game day rosters. 

I am sure injuries will drive this decision. He is a nice luxury until a key starter goes down and they need the depth at a different position.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, adam said:

The only way a PS guy gets poached is if he is signed to another team's 53-man roster, so that process would only be indirectly impacted by keeping Keenum on the 53-man.

So if Keenum was on the roster last year, he would've replaced Blasingame or Velus based on usage.

 Blasingame = 10 snaps + 25 ST snaps
Jones Jr. = 4 snaps + 12 ST snaps

If he makes it this year, he would either replace RB5 or WR6

Right now that is Scott or Toure as WR6 or the loser of Monangai or Wheeler as RB5. If Monangai loses out, he is a PS Candidate anyway. It doesn't seem like Keenum would negatively impact the game day rosters. 

I am sure injuries will drive this decision. He is a nice luxury until a key starter goes down and they need the depth at a different position.

that all makes sense. i think they Bears might toy with the idea of converting him to a coach if circumstances force it, like an injury like you say, or a good crop of developing young players.

[Stinger226]

13 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Here's an interesting idea. Im not saying it will happen, but it has occurred to me.

Given these facts:

Case Keenum has said in interviews that he had planned to retire before this offseason, and then he met with Ben Johnson, and that turned him around.

Keenum's primary role on this team is to mentor Caleb.

We just paid Tyson Bagent, extending his contract.

Roster spots are precious.

Is it possible that Keenum will transition from player to coach when we cut down the roster? I could see him as Caleb's mentor, and he doesnt need to be a player to do that.

Just thinking about stuff. Not saying i know it will happen, but it does fit the facts, and open a roster spot on the 53?



 

Tyson Bagent is still on his rookie contract, I think they like him so not sure they would put him on the PS. Clearly Keenum was brought in to help mentor Caleb and may end up on the 53 man roster. I think every rookie makes the 53. They will play with the roster to guess who can be put on the PS to make sure they dont lose him.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Tyson Bagent is still on his rookie contract, I think they like him so not sure they would put him on the PS. Clearly Keenum was brought in to help mentor Caleb and may end up on the 53 man roster. I think every rookie makes the 53. They will play with the roster to guess who can be put on the PS to make sure they dont lose him.

Bagent signed a 3-year UDFA deal, so technically, he is not on a typical 4 or 5-year rookie deal. This is the last year of that deal. 

[Stinger226]

16 minutes ago, adam said:

Bagent signed a 3-year UDFA deal, so technically, he is not on a typical 4 or 5-year rookie deal. This is the last year of that deal. 

What ever you want to call it, he is under the original deal when we first obtained him. He was a rookie when he signed it so I called it a rookie contract, I dont know of more technical names. 

[BearFan PHX]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Tyson Bagent is still on his rookie contract, I think they like him so not sure they would put him on the PS. Clearly Keenum was brought in to help mentor Caleb and may end up on the 53 man roster. I think every rookie makes the 53. They will play with the roster to guess who can be put on the PS to make sure they dont lose him.

they extended Bagents contract.

[BearFan PHX]

7 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

What ever you want to call it, he is under the original deal when we first obtained him. He was a rookie when he signed it so I called it a rookie contract, I dont know of more technical names. 

no its not the original contract anymore - they extended it, which means a new longer deal.

[AZ54]

When I watched Keenum’s press conference someone asked him about making the 53 man roster.  He hesitated just a bit and looked away before answering with some generic statement. It felt a bit deceitful to me.  I’m going to go out on a limb and say there is already an agreement in place of some sort regarding the final roster.   That can be either way.  I’ll watch and see what he says about his family but my suspicion is that he’s getting money to work for the summer.  If Caleb builds a good relationship with him then there’s nothing stopping him then from chatting about things during the regular season.