Starting to believe Benson

[azbearsfan]

Have you never heard of a guy being arrested for "sleeping it off" while in his car with keys in the ignition?

Have you never heard of the owner of a car being charged when someone in the car has possession of something illegal, or is otherwise doing something illegal?

I don't claim to know the law on boating ordinances that well, but it seems like a fairly easy and logical step to compare DUI-related laws to BUI-related laws.

 

 

 

These really have nothing to do with this case because Benson was not asleep behind the wheel of his boat and drinking on the deck of a parked boat is not illegal.

[jason]

Regarding "sleeping it off", that I would call different because the individual is behind the wheel of the car. Also, it sort of depend on the situation. If the car is parked outside a bar, then it likely is not going to be a DWI. If the car is on the side of the road, then the obvious belief is the driver drove the car to that point, and if drunk, DWI. But this is all different from a person simply being on the boat he owns, and the boat being at anchor.

 

As for possession, no, I have never heard of that. If there are drugs, or the like, in the car but not on a person, then yes, the owner of the vehicle gets the charge, but not if the drugs on on the possession of someone else in the car, which you allude to. regardless, this is not a logical step to the DWI laws. If a passenger in the car is drunk, does the driver get a public intoxication charge? No.

 

I agree it is easy to compare boating to driving in terms of DWIs, but that is the whole point. The boat was at anchor (parked). While Benson is the owner, he was not the driver and not behind the wheel. Consider this. You and your friends go out, and you drove your car. At the party, cops test you, and because you had a vehicle there, they arrest you for a DWI. To me, that would be the more logical comparison. Problem is, there is no way to know whether or not you would have driven the car. At some point during the party, you could have agreed to have one of your friends remain sober and drive your car.

 

If Benson was behind the wheel and driving the boat, there is no question this would be a DWI issue. Whether or not Benson was drunk would be key, but it would be a DWI issue. But the boat being at anchor changes things IMHO.

I think where you comparison fails is that Benson is the owner of the boat, and he was on the boat at the time. I believe my comparison to be much more realistic. In the car, in the boat...it's fairly similar.

 

As for whether a driver gets charged with possession or anything like that, my main purpose was to show that it's very likely to get in trouble in the driving world if someone is simply in their vehicle while drunk, and the keys are in the ignition. Or, similarly, if there are open containers in the car at a passenger's feet. IF the laws between DUI and BUI are similar, simply because the boat was anchored does preclude someone on that boat from the problems related to BUI.

[jason]

These really have nothing to do with this case because Benson was not asleep behind the wheel of his boat and drinking on the deck of a parked boat is not illegal.

 

I'm not saying he was asleep. My point was that he was in the boat, and according to the cops, had alcohol in his system.

 

There are gray areas here, and I don't claim to know them all. However, your flat statement of "drinking on the deck of a parked boat is not illegal" does not even allow for gray areas.

 

It's not illegal to drink at a bar, but if you walk outside and act stupid, you sure as hell can get a public intox. Gray areas.

 

I suspect that in the end, that is what it will all come down to.

[akshaz]

 

Thank you for at least showing you are far beyond reason, and far too deep into conspiracy theories, to actually look at anything from this point on without being ridiculous. It's specifically this line of thought that causes more problems than it fixes, blaming everything on racism, the man, and the system. I'd suggest listening to the ideas of Chris Rock before posting something so stupid again:

 

 

 

 

Aside from the "white friend" part (because white people NEVER get arrested ) , the rest is a fairly safe set of rules to follow.

 

 

Yeah okay. Please specify what exactly I said that what was beyond reason or "so stupid". Nothing I said was based on a conspiracy. I used PERSONAL experience to back up my statements. My "free game" and "beatings come with an arrest" were tongue in cheek and meant to stress a point.

 

Of course, white guys get arrested all of the time. They just normally don't get beat up or killed in the process. I believe that YOUR line of thinking is what keeps this kind of stuff going. According to you, it's all in our imaginations. We're just making all of this up. We don't advance beyond this point because most people don't think there is a problem at all.

 

I guess my eyes have been lying to me and those who witness/document excessive force by the police all suffer from the same imagination disorder.

 

Since we're sending videos. Why don't you check out this video from Monday. Be careful, you imagination may start playing tricks on you.

[azbearsfan]

 

Thank you for at least showing you are far beyond reason, and far too deep into conspiracy theories, to actually look at anything from this point on without being ridiculous. It's specifically this line of thought that causes more problems than it fixes, blaming everything on racism, the man, and the system. I'd suggest listening to the ideas of Chris Rock before posting something so stupid again:

 

 

 

 

Aside from the "white friend" part (because white people NEVER get arrested ) , the rest is a fairly safe set of rules to follow.

 

 

I would argue that your extreme opposite thought process causes problems too. To ignore that racism exists is extremely narrow minded.

 

 

I'm not sure why you say he is beyond reason. He has experienced police brutality. Obviously that experience will have an impact on his perspective of such situations.

[akshaz]

I would argue that your extreme opposite thought process causes problems too. To ignore that racism exists is extremely narrow minded.

 

 

I'm not sure why you say he is beyond reason. He has experienced police brutality. Obviously that experience will have an impact on his perspective of such situations.

 

 

See, that's the thing AzBearFan. I'm no paranoid guy. Of course, there's no way for anyone to know this. But, I'm actually a former Republican that belongs to several conservative groups. I have worked for years to get rid of the false claims of racism and try to get to a point where we don't use race/skin color as means for torment or advantage.

 

I'm just realistic enough to know that we're not there yet. There's still work to be done. But, first we have to be honest enough to take a frank look at the situation.

 

Yes, it was dumb for me to mouth off to the cops when that incident happened. It was probably dumb for Ced to start mouthing off too. But, I've seen many other people talk back to cops. Worst case, you'll end up in jail. But, you won't end up struggling for breath and/or questioning whether you'll live through it.

[bear trap]

Doesn't really matter. What's the big deal. Black men are free game for police abuse. We all know that a beating must come with an arrest or a police encounter.

 

Gimme a break. Most people turn a blind eye to this stuff because it's not likely to happen to them, their sons, friends or brothers. Their folks never come home beaten up after getting roughed up by the cops and then let go; or ever got the crap choked out of them by a police baton (I witnessed the first, was the "chokee" in the second) Better yet, they'll just deny that this stuff even happens at all. Everyone is just making it up. The recent case in Philly, the Sean Bell case in NYC.....I can go on and on. The due process that everyone is screaming for isn't granted by the police who many times abuse their authority when they think they have an easy, indefensible target.

 

After looking at the picture on the Trib, are you guys really that surprised that they got stopped by the police? A whole bunch of black guys, some with dreadlocks on an expensive boat with a bunch of white girls. They were almost begging to be pulled over.

 

Nothing will come of this. It's all "he said/she said" and people will always give cops the benefit of the doubt. Even when video evidence is there, they'll say "let's not rush to judgement. We don't know how much they were resisting arrest".

 

Everyone can go back to sleep now.

 

No that didn't do it but in the picture on this link you can clearly see a liquor bottle and also some chick in the background taking a swig of beer. But hey every party I've been to the host always stays sober

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...1,3135266.story

[nfoligno]

I think where you comparison fails is that Benson is the owner of the boat, and he was on the boat at the time. I believe my comparison to be much more realistic. In the car, in the boat...it's fairly similar.

 

Where my comparison fails? Okay, how about this one. As you know, I live in Texas. Here in Texas we are a pickup truck state. To hell w/ gas prices. No clue about other places, but a popular thing to do, especially in small towns, is drive out to a field for a party. Often you have people siting on chairs in the bed of their truck, w/ the keys in the ignition so the radio can play. This is also a very normal sight on the beach in Padre. Anyway, the owner of the truck can be on the truck, keys in the ignitiion, but the truck is in park and no one behind the wheel. Is that a good comparison?

 

In that situation, the driver will NOT get a DWI. He might get an open container, unless he is smart enough to poor his beer into an open cup. I do not understand why, but it is legal to have a cup of beer in the car (not the driver) but an open can of the same substance is against the law. Point is, the owner of the car may be written up for several violations, but DWI is NOT one of them.

 

If Benson was hit w/ an open container violation, I could understand. If he were hit w/ public intoxication, it would make sense. But I am sorry, DWI? I don't claim to be an expert on DWI laws, but I will bet you that charge does not stick. If it is true the boat was parked and Benson not behind the wheel at the time the police came aboard, no judge will convict him, whether he was drunk or not. The defense for this would simply be far too easy. Hell, all he has to say is his mother was going to drive the boat home. As no one check his mother, or anyone else, for intoxication, there is no way to say they were not a designated driver.

[nfoligno]

And if he were charged w/ public intox, this would be a whole different story, but he was not. Sorry, but there really doesn't seem to be much of a gray area. What does DWI stand for? Driver while intoxicated. If the boat was in park, then no one was driving. It really is pretty cut and dry.

 

IMHO, there is no chance the DWI sticks. The resisting arrest however is not as easily dismissed, whether the original charge is bogus or not.

[azbearsfan]

See, that's the thing AzBearFan. I'm no paranoid guy. Of course, there's no way for anyone to know this. But, I'm actually a former Republican that belongs to several conservative groups. I have worked for years to get rid of the false claims of racism and try to get to a point where we don't use race/skin color as means for torment or advantage.

 

I'm just realistic enough to know that we're not there yet. There's still work to be done. But, first we have to be honest enough to take a frank look at the situation.

 

Yes, it was dumb for me to mouth off to the cops when that incident happened. It was probably dumb for Ced to start mouthing off too. But, I've seen many other people talk back to cops. Worst case, you'll end up in jail. But, you won't end up struggling for breath and/or questioning whether you'll live through it.

 

 

The thing is, I have mouthed off to cops when they pull me over for bogus reasons and they haven't done crap. But I'm also white.

 

Case in point, about 6 years ago I was on my way home from work at about 11:00 pm (it was during football season and I coach so we were watching film after practice). I didn't have dinner so I stopped at a Mexican food place (Filiberto's if anybody is from the AZ) where they put the food in a plain brown paper bag. I was living in Scottsdale at the time which is a pretty affluent area, but my car was a beater. I'm driving down the backstreets and an almost to my house when I get pulled over. Cop walks around my car with his flashlight, comes up, doesn't tell me what he pulled me over for. Asks where I'm coming from, I tell him work. See's the plain paper bag on the passenger's seat and starts getting excited and asks me whats in it. I open it show him its a burrito and made some crack about eating. He gets all dissappointed takes a look around the inside of the car with his flashlight. I ass him what he pulled me over for and he doesn't say anything. I satrt getting lippy and he tells me to go on my way.

 

The dude saw a crappy car in Scottsdale and a brown paper bag on the passengers seat and thought I was a dealer.

 

 

Point is sometimes these guys just do stuff to do it. And I'm not one to stay quiet when I think I'm being jerked around, cop or not.

[akshaz]

[Point is sometimes these guys just do stuff to do it. And I'm not one to stay quiet when I think I'm being jerked around, cop or not.

 

Dude, in other cases that stuff would get you jailtime at the minimum and or much worse in many cases. The situation is just different. One of my white friends was telling me the other day about how he was arguing with a cop who pulled him over for speeding. He swore that it was the guy in front of him and they ended up cursing back and forth. He got two tickets, but nothing else.

 

There's no way I would EVER curse or argue with a cop even if I know it's BS. The margin of error is WAY too high for me to do anything close to that. Just the way it is.

[KiLoc69]

There's no way I would EVER curse or argue with a cop even if I know it's BS. The margin of error is WAY too high for me to do anything close to that. Just the way it is.

 

 

I feel the exact same way, but not because of my race/ethnicity (hispanic), but because of my personal choice in appearance. To be perfectly honest, I personally believe alot of the police abuse incidents that get categorized under being racially motivated are not that at all. The person looking like a thug (usually black or hispanic) has a much liklier chance of getting abused because even if the person is not a criminal, they LOOK like many of the criminals who are legitamately arrested. My police friends have admitted as much. The way they see it, if the guy looks like a thug, and starts mouthing off, he's either gonna get extra citations or worse, regardless of skin color. They assume the person probably can't afford a lawyer and are more likely to take the abuse than to pursue the matter. If an educated looking person in a nice car mouths off, the cops lay off a bit because they fear the person may understand the law better than the average "thugs" and will be quick to call a lawyer if any harassment takes place.

 

I understand that my looking like a "thug" away from work is my choice and I understand the consequences with being prejudged by other people and I'm ok with it. I am not ok with being pulled over just because of how I look, but when it happens, I "yes sir" and "no sir" until they let me go. Sure it pisses me off, but people that deal with this kinda thing regularly, know all too well that we better hide our anger.

[DrunkBomber]

What I dont get is why she called her dad to call the cops instead of her calling the cops herself. that to me is VERY odd.

Exactly what I was thinking. That, coupled with the time it took for her to come forward, its like she had called her dad for whatever reason and now they want to use it as an alibi and since she really only called her dad and not 911 because the records can be traced they came up with this story. I wouldnt be surprised to see this story be true on either side, I just found this very fishy, especially with the "black friend" line.

[KiLoc69]

Exactly what I was thinking. That, coupled with the time it took for her to come forward, its like she had called her dad for whatever reason and now they want to use it as an alibi and since she really only called her dad and not 911 because the records can be traced they came up with this story. I wouldnt be surprised to see this story be true on either side, I just found this very fishy, especially with the "black friend" line.

 

This would make sense except the dad DID in fact call 911 so the record can be traced. He called them and said something to the effect of a black kid getting beat up by LCRA police. Now a guy that wasn't even on Benson's boat has come forward backing Benson's claim and supposedly has some video of the incident.

[jason]

Yeah okay. Please specify what exactly I said that what was beyond reason or "so stupid". Nothing I said was based on a conspiracy. I used PERSONAL experience to back up my statements. My "free game" and "beatings come with an arrest" were tongue in cheek and meant to stress a point.

 

Of course, white guys get arrested all of the time. They just normally don't get beat up or killed in the process. I believe that YOUR line of thinking is what keeps this kind of stuff going. According to you, it's all in our imaginations. We're just making all of this up. We don't advance beyond this point because most people don't think there is a problem at all.

 

I guess my eyes have been lying to me and those who witness/document excessive force by the police all suffer from the same imagination disorder.

 

Since we're sending videos. Why don't you check out this video from Monday. Be careful, you imagination may start playing tricks on you.

 

As soon as you posted the following, you lost credibility:

Doesn't really matter. What's the big deal. Black men are free game for police abuse. We all know that a beating must come with an arrest or a police encounter.

 

That's the conspiracy theory, painting the picture as if every black man is just free game for widespread police abuse. Racism exists from all races, but your opening statement is ignorant.

[jason]

I would argue that your extreme opposite thought process causes problems too. To ignore that racism exists is extremely narrow minded.

 

I'm not sure why you say he is beyond reason. He has experienced police brutality. Obviously that experience will have an impact on his perspective of such situations.

 

Reread his original statement. With that as the precursor for the rest of the post, the rest of his personal experience(s), however valid and/or true they may be, become something that should be ignored.

[jason]

Where my comparison fails? Okay, how about this one. As you know, I live in Texas. Here in Texas we are a pickup truck state. To hell w/ gas prices. No clue about other places, but a popular thing to do, especially in small towns, is drive out to a field for a party. Often you have people siting on chairs in the bed of their truck, w/ the keys in the ignition so the radio can play. This is also a very normal sight on the beach in Padre. Anyway, the owner of the truck can be on the truck, keys in the ignitiion, but the truck is in park and no one behind the wheel. Is that a good comparison?

 

In that situation, the driver will NOT get a DWI. He might get an open container, unless he is smart enough to poor his beer into an open cup. I do not understand why, but it is legal to have a cup of beer in the car (not the driver) but an open can of the same substance is against the law. Point is, the owner of the car may be written up for several violations, but DWI is NOT one of them.

 

If Benson was hit w/ an open container violation, I could understand. If he were hit w/ public intoxication, it would make sense. But I am sorry, DWI? I don't claim to be an expert on DWI laws, but I will bet you that charge does not stick. If it is true the boat was parked and Benson not behind the wheel at the time the police came aboard, no judge will convict him, whether he was drunk or not. The defense for this would simply be far too easy. Hell, all he has to say is his mother was going to drive the boat home. As no one check his mother, or anyone else, for intoxication, there is no way to say they were not a designated driver.

 

That's a much better comparison, and I've agreed with this idea in the past. The big charges will get dropped, and they'll end up playing in the gray area to get him on some little things.

[jason]

[Point is sometimes these guys just do stuff to do it. And I'm not one to stay quiet when I think I'm being jerked around, cop or not.

 

Dude, in other cases that stuff would get you jailtime at the minimum and or much worse in many cases. The situation is just different. One of my white friends was telling me the other day about how he was arguing with a cop who pulled him over for speeding. He swore that it was the guy in front of him and they ended up cursing back and forth. He got two tickets, but nothing else.

 

There's no way I would EVER curse or argue with a cop even if I know it's BS. The margin of error is WAY too high for me to do anything close to that. Just the way it is.

 

If that really happened, he must have run into the biggest stiff in the history of the police force. I have several friends who are cops, in small towns as well as in big cities, and you can guaran-damn-tee that if someone starts arguing getting an attitude, they're going to find something with which to charge them.

 

On the other hand, if a friend of mine told me this story, I'd probably call BS. Like you, I'd just take the ticket and be on my way. There are very, very few people who will mouth-off to a cop.

[DrunkBomber]

This would make sense except the dad DID in fact call 911 so the record can be traced. He called them and said something to the effect of a black kid getting beat up by LCRA police. Now a guy that wasn't even on Benson's boat has come forward backing Benson's claim and supposedly has some video of the incident.

I didnt catch that, thanks for pointing it out. As much as I hate Benson for other reasons. The more I hear about this I am beginning to believe him.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Have you never heard of a guy being arrested for "sleeping it off" while in his car with keys in the ignition?

Have you never heard of the owner of a car being charged when someone in the car has possession of something illegal, or is otherwise doing something illegal?

 

I don't claim to know the law on boating ordinances that well, but it seems like a fairly easy and logical step to compare DUI-related laws to BUI-related laws.

 

Not sure on the exact laws, but you can get a BWI if you are water skiing. You can get a BWI on a sail boat. In the case of an anchored boat, I'm not sure on. Someone still needs to be responsible for that boat at all times. The boat will still drift even if anchored, thus similiar to the sail boat. If the boat was in a slip, or tied up to a dock, the rules may be different.

 

With the case of Benson, I can see the water patrol approach the boat and ask "who is the captain of this boat". Cedric steps forward and says "I am sir". The water patrol does the regular safety inspection, interacting with Cedric while doing the routine. The water patrol sees alcohol containers and can see a little affect on Cedric. If Cedric wasn't so cooperative, the water patrol may have decided to straighted him up by giving him the field sobriety test.

[nfoligno]

More and more witnesses are stepping forward, and now his friends on the boat are saying the 2nd officer asked if any of them were able to drive the boat, and my understanding is this was answered in the positive. So even if Benson were the owner and/or said he was the captain, at the same time, if others said there were capable, that should have been the end of it.

[jason]

Not sure on the exact laws, but you can get a BWI if you are water skiing. You can get a BWI on a sail boat. In the case of an anchored boat, I'm not sure on. Someone still needs to be responsible for that boat at all times. The boat will still drift even if anchored, thus similiar to the sail boat. If the boat was in a slip, or tied up to a dock, the rules may be different.

 

With the case of Benson, I can see the water patrol approach the boat and ask "who is the captain of this boat". Cedric steps forward and says "I am sir". The water patrol does the regular safety inspection, interacting with Cedric while doing the routine. The water patrol sees alcohol containers and can see a little affect on Cedric. If Cedric wasn't so cooperative, the water patrol may have decided to straighted him up by giving him the field sobriety test.

 

BWAAAHAHAHAHA....

 

Water Skiing while intoxicated?!

[AZ54]

Discrimination exists in all races shapes and forms. Do I think it's all apsects of our society? Absolutely not. Yet having been kicked out of the Air Force with no severance pay in part because I was a white guy and minorities needed "special considerations" I know it does happen. In my case the Air Force paid up 10 years later but it doesn't erase the feelings of being put on the street like that with 4 kids to take care of.

 

I understand experiences like akshaz had do happen but I've never personally lived through that. I have been pulled over in Louisiana while driving down the interstate at 0200 for doing nothing wrong. The officer said I was tailgating yet it was he who was 10 feet off my bumper for a mile or so. Apparently out of state plates make you a target for tickets there and not knowing why you got pulled over will make that a nerve racking experience. Throw in an obnoxious cop and it gets worse. In this case the fact I was in the military probably got me out of the ticket. Bottom line is that I know there are still people in positions of authority who make judgments and take action based on appearances.

 

If Ced's lawyer feels he has a strong case he's going to take this issue through the court of public opinion, not just keep quiet until it's all in court. He needs to do that in order to protect Ced's reputation and just by reading this thread you can see how quickly people can jump to conclusions. If he was discriminated against, I'm all for Ced getting a fair settlement from the LCRA and that is going to be expensive.

[azbearsfan]

Reread his original statement. With that as the precursor for the rest of the post, the rest of his personal experience(s), however valid and/or true they may be, become something that should be ignored.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic man.

[akshaz]

As soon as you posted the following, you lost credibility:

 

 

That's the conspiracy theory, painting the picture as if every black man is just free game for widespread police abuse. Racism exists from all races, but your opening statement is ignorant.

 

 

I clearly said that analogy was used tongue in cheek to articulate a point. You conveniently disregarded that portion of my post.

 

Not going to beat a dead horse. Back to football.