If I blame any single person I blame Lovie.

[butkusrules]

All the falcons needed was a field goal and he decides that his injury obliterated Defense is going to be the better tool even in a more difficult position disadvantage then their Special Teams on a routine play.

The players made tons of mistakes throughout the game but they still brought him the lead with 11 seconds left. He was not tired or hurt when he made that mistake he was just dumb.

[azbearsfan]

All the falcons needed was a field goal and he decides that his injury obliterated Defense is going to be the better tool even in a more difficult position disadvantage then their Special Teams on a routine play.

The players made tons of mistakes throughout the game but they still brought him the lead with 11 seconds left. He was not tired or hurt when he made that mistake he was just dumb.

 

 

Well the time before Norwood had returned it 80 yards, so thats really a catch 22 for them at that point.

Would you still back up kicking deep if Norwood gets a good return? More likely everyone is up at arms for kicking deep if he gets a good return.

 

To me its on the defense for giving up the play. However, even that is tempered because we had two back up corners in and, due to injuries, were not able to get into 5 or 6 db situations.

 

It is what it is. The Bears could have won this earlier with some good execution.

[CrackerDog]

Well the time before Norwood had returned it 80 yards, so thats really a catch 22 for them at that point.

Would you still back up kicking deep if Norwood gets a good return? More likely everyone is up at arms for kicking deep if he gets a good return.

 

To me its on the defense for giving up the play. However, even that is tempered because we had two back up corners in and, due to injuries, were not able to get into 5 or 6 db situations.

 

It is what it is. The Bears could have won this earlier with some good execution.

 

I like the squib and endorse it as the best answer. BUT you've got to kick that ball deeper even as a squib. And then you've got to play your safties toward the sidelines more so they have a better play on the ball than they did. Brown was right there but had he gotten there 1/2 second sooner the ball is knocked away. You KNEW they were going to have to play to the sidelines.

 

But, you know what, it was a fantastic finish and you have to give them some credit there. It was a perfectly thrown ball and he was under pressure. I can't really "blame" anyone as you sometimes lose games like this. The unfortunate thing is we seem to have found some pretty creative ways to drop 3 games we otherwise should've won. It hurts.

 

We're still hanging in there though. Neither the Packers or the Vikings scare me. We'll just have to keep working hard and get it done. And Orton is really a surprise to the upside for me. I knew he had potential but this game proved he has more ability I'd previously given him credit for. It takes a real leader to get your team down there and hit a tough pass like that to take the lead with seconds left. Kudos to Kyle!

[Connorbear]

We're still hanging in there though. Neither the Packers or the Vikings scare me. We'll just have to keep working hard and get it done. And Orton is really a surprise to the upside for me. I knew he had potential but this game proved he has more ability I'd previously given him credit for. It takes a real leader to get your team down there and hit a tough pass like that to take the lead with seconds left. Kudos to Kyle!

We have a very good shot of winning the division. We can and should at least split our season series with Minny and Green Bay. We cannot, however, afford to lose anymore games like we did yesterday.

 

I am extremely happy with how Kyle has played. If he keeps it up, he will get himself a nice shiny new contract!!!!!

 

Peace

[azbearsfan]

I like the squib and endorse it as the best answer. BUT you've got to kick that ball deeper even as a squib. And then you've got to play your safties toward the sidelines more so they have a better play on the ball than they did. Brown was right there but had he gotten there 1/2 second sooner the ball is knocked away. You KNEW they were going to have to play to the sidelines.

 

But, you know what, it was a fantastic finish and you have to give them some credit there. It was a perfectly thrown ball and he was under pressure. I can't really "blame" anyone as you sometimes lose games like this. The unfortunate thing is we seem to have found some pretty creative ways to drop 3 games we otherwise should've won. It hurts.

 

We're still hanging in there though. Neither the Packers or the Vikings scare me. We'll just have to keep working hard and get it done. And Orton is really a surprise to the upside for me. I knew he had potential but this game proved he has more ability I'd previously given him credit for. It takes a real leader to get your team down there and hit a tough pass like that to take the lead with seconds left. Kudos to Kyle!

 

Agree. Maybe 1 foot towards the sideline give M Brown a better chance to make a play. Plus you have to wonder if M Brown maybe is thinking he is still the young M Brown and can get to whatever when his body wont do it anymore. Just wondering....

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Yeah, but does anybody really know if Lovie gets the final calls on offense? Did he really accept the run to McKie? Hell, there I'd rather see a QB sneak if we aren't going to give it to Forte. It's not Lovie's fault Harrison doesn't know how to play a prevent- to play a prevent as a DB is 6th grade stuff, and I can see why TB let him go. It's not Lovie's fault Tommie doesn't know the touch rule.

 

However, I do put most of the blame on Lovie.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I wouldn't have a problem with the squib if it was executed better. Make Norwood have to get it on the bounce instead of an easy catch. Sine Gould doesn't have the leg to kick it into the endzone, he should have tried and squib it to Norwood allowing the defense to get to him quicker than usual. There were so many plays that could have been winners for the Bears. Mike Browns "Should have been" pick 6, the poor throw Ryan made to White in the endzone that shoulda been picked off, Tommie Harris' stupid retarded fumble, kicking the 3 points instead of going for the touchdown.. (Although I agreed with that decision, Turner hosed us by calling Mckie on a FB run when everyone in the building knew what they were going to do.)

[akshaz]

Well the time before Norwood had returned it 80 yards, so thats really a catch 22 for them at that point.

Would you still back up kicking deep if Norwood gets a good return? More likely everyone is up at arms for kicking deep if he gets a good return.

 

To me its on the defense for giving up the play. However, even that is tempered because we had two back up corners in and, due to injuries, were not able to get into 5 or 6 db situations.

 

It is what it is. The Bears could have won this earlier with some good execution.

 

I didn't like the squibb kick. I think that we should have kicked it far and relied on our STs to make a good tackle. The defense wouldn't have been in such of a compromising position. I also think that the odds of Norwood returning another one would be longer than the odds of a short squib kick that would make their offense need only one play to get into field goal position.

 

Easy to say in hind-sight. But, I hated the call when in occured. Just like the 4th and goal inside the one. I told the Bears fan beside me that since we needed two scores anyway, we should go field goal. He thought I was crazy until they stopped us.

[madlithuanian]

I have no issue with that. The buck stops at Lovie...

 

All the falcons needed was a field goal and he decides that his injury obliterated Defense is going to be the better tool even in a more difficult position disadvantage then their Special Teams on a routine play.

The players made tons of mistakes throughout the game but they still brought him the lead with 11 seconds left. He was not tired or hurt when he made that mistake he was just dumb.

[madlithuanian]

It is somewhat of a catch 22 as you say. However, I think it's easier to defend a position of playing to win.

 

I hate prevent,etc... I'd rather get burned blitzing than picked apart... Etc...

 

 

 

Well the time before Norwood had returned it 80 yards, so thats really a catch 22 for them at that point.

Would you still back up kicking deep if Norwood gets a good return? More likely everyone is up at arms for kicking deep if he gets a good return.

 

To me its on the defense for giving up the play. However, even that is tempered because we had two back up corners in and, due to injuries, were not able to get into 5 or 6 db situations.

 

It is what it is. The Bears could have won this earlier with some good execution.

[madlithuanian]

He should. He's the head coach. He can intervene at any time.

 

It is Lovie's fault. If his players don't know the rules, the teacher should have taught them that.

 

Yeah, but does anybody really know if Lovie gets the final calls on offense? Did he really accept the run to McKie? Hell, there I'd rather see a QB sneak if we aren't going to give it to Forte. It's not Lovie's fault Harrison doesn't know how to play a prevent- to play a prevent as a DB is 6th grade stuff, and I can see why TB let him go. It's not Lovie's fault Tommie doesn't know the touch rule.

 

However, I do put most of the blame on Lovie.

[balta1701-A]

Well the time before Norwood had returned it 80 yards, so thats really a catch 22 for them at that point.

Would you still back up kicking deep if Norwood gets a good return? More likely everyone is up at arms for kicking deep if he gets a good return.

 

To me its on the defense for giving up the play. However, even that is tempered because we had two back up corners in and, due to injuries, were not able to get into 5 or 6 db situations.

 

It is what it is. The Bears could have won this earlier with some good execution.

 

Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick? If he doesn't get it within field goal range on the return itself, then with a longer return, I don't think they'd have had a chance to get the pass play and a field goal off, even with the clock guy.

[ChileBear]

We have a very good shot of winning the division. We can and should at least split our season series with Minny and Green Bay. We cannot, however, afford to lose anymore games like we did yesterday.

 

I am extremely happy with how Kyle has played. If he keeps it up, he will get himself a nice shiny new contract!!!!!

 

Peace

Agree, Connorbear. We have a good shot at the division. But the D needs to quite giving up the 3rd and longs. We lost three games that we were in until the end. Now we need to deal with the injuries and move forward.

[madlithuanian]

I tend to agree...

 

Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick? If he doesn't get it within field goal range on the return itself, then with a longer return, I don't think they'd have had a chance to get the pass play and a field goal off, even with the clock guy.

[selection7]

I like the squib and endorse it as the best answer. BUT you've got to kick that ball deeper even as a squib.

...even in the face of real life evidence that a squib is a riskier kick than a routine deep kick (in terms of allowing at least a return to the 40yd line, not in terms of taking it all the way), you're still sticking to your guns. Now you sound like an official Bears coach. Send Lovie your resume.

[azbearsfan]

Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick? If he doesn't get it within field goal range on the return itself, then with a longer return, I don't think they'd have had a chance to get the pass play and a field goal off, even with the clock guy.

 

In all honesty, probably the same 5 seconds as it did the squib. The returner for the falcons on the squib wasted time going side to side than vertically.

 

Again,to me its a catch 22, it looks from the reports that the squib was intended to go deeper, so I guess we wont know if, executed correctly, if it was a good call or not. Looks like player execution kills the Bears again.

[Lucky Luciano]

QUOTE (balta1701-A @ Oct 13 2008, 12:19 PM) *

Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick?

 

In all honesty, probably the same 5 seconds as it did the squib. The returner for the falcons on the squib wasted time going side to side than vertically.

 

norwood must be the fastest human on the planet....

 

"January 29, 1988 in History

Event:

Canadian Ben Johnson breaks own 50-yard dash world record at 5.15"

 

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1988/j...988_160858.html

[ASHKUM BEAR]

QUOTE (balta1701-A @ Oct 13 2008, 12:19 PM) *

Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick?

 

 

 

norwood must be the fastest human on the planet....

 

"January 29, 1988 in History

Event:

Canadian Ben Johnson breaks own 50-yard dash world record at 5.15"

 

http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1988/j...988_160858.html

 

Thanks Lucky for that find.

With 11 seconds, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched (unlike at the start of the game it starts when ball is kicked), so maybe Lovie gambled on the ball bouncing off of an opponent starting the count down.

 

I'd prefer kicking the ball deep and forcing ATL to decide to run with it or get out of bounds. If they decide to run with it, figure Norwood would of made it to the 25 yd line (thats avg) With a 20 yard return, take 4-5 seconds off the clock. That gives ATL possesion at the 25 with 6 or 7 seconds to go. With that time frame, there is maybe enough time to get two plays off before a FG attempt. Odds would of been definately in favor of the Bears to kick it deep. I couldn't believe they squib kicked it with only a 2 pt lead giving ATL a shorter field to work with and a chance to win it.

 

The Monday Moring winning formula:

1 Kick it deep, but not into the endzone and keep it as close to the middle of the field.

2 Norwood has no choice but to either run for the sidelines or run for the endzone.

a.) runs out of bounds - approx 20 yards to the sideline = minus 3 or 4 seconds - ball approx 15 yd line

b.) run for endzone - most likely he would of been tackled somewhere around 25 yd line = minus 4 or 5 seconds - every 10 yds is about another second. If Norwood was to get to the 40 yd line, that would of left ATL with only 5 seconds to make the same play to put them in FG position.

[azbearsfan]

Thanks Lucky for that find.

With 11 seconds, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched (unlike at the start of the game it starts when ball is kicked), so maybe Lovie gambled on the ball bouncing off of an opponent starting the count down.

 

I'd prefer kicking the ball deep and forcing ATL to decide to run with it or get out of bounds. If they decide to run with it, figure Norwood would of made it to the 25 yd line (thats avg) With a 20 yard return, take 4-5 seconds off the clock. That gives ATL possesion at the 25 with 6 or 7 seconds to go. With that time frame, there is maybe enough time to get two plays off before a FG attempt. Odds would of been definately in favor of the Bears to kick it deep. I couldn't believe they squib kicked it with only a 2 pt lead giving ATL a shorter field to work with and a chance to win it.

 

The Monday Moring winning formula:

1 Kick it deep, but not into the endzone and keep it as close to the middle of the field.

2 Norwood has no choice but to either run for the sidelines or run for the endzone.

a.) runs out of bounds - approx 20 yards to the sideline = minus 3 or 4 seconds - ball approx 15 yd line

b.) run for endzone - most likely he would of been tackled somewhere around 25 yd line = minus 4 or 5 seconds - every 10 yds is about another second. If Norwood was to get to the 40 yd line, that would of left ATL with only 5 seconds to make the same play to put them in FG position.

 

What would you guys be saying today if Norwood takes it another 80 and they kick the field goal? Should have quibbed......

[GakMan23]

What would you guys be saying today if Norwood takes it another 80 and they kick the field goal? Should have quibbed......

 

 

If he took it 80 yards there wouldnt have been any time left. First he isnt going to be running in a straight line and second he is wearing football gear so the amount of time he would have taken to run it that distance would have run out the clock.

[nfoligno]

The Monday Moring winning formula:

1 Kick it deep, but not into the endzone and keep it as close to the middle of the field.

 

IMHO, if we can kick it into the endzone, that would have been as good as anything else we could have done. Yes, the clock doesn't run, but they get the ball at the 20, and have only 11 seconds w/ no timeouts. Sorry, but that would be the ideal situation. You take away concerns over Norwood having another solid return, Atlanta would not have good field position.

[nfoligno]

What would you guys be saying today if Norwood takes it another 80 and they kick the field goal? Should have quibbed......

 

AZ, couple comments, as I have seen you say this numerous times.

 

Sure, there is always second guessing, but I doubt there would be a ton of fans screaming that we should have squib kicked the ball if Norwood had a return that killed us. More likely, there would simply be complaints over the special teams blowing it.

 

My main comment though is this. How often do we practice squib kicks? If it is something we practice often, and Gould simply didn't execute it well, then fine. IMHO, the problem was not so much the decision to squib kick it, but the execution of the kick was simply poor. But again, how often do we practice that kick. If we practice it rarely, then I do fault the decision. It we practice it often, then I don't as much.

 

I disagree w/ it, but don't necessarily fault it. Personally, I think you kick away. Sure, you run the risk of a return, but I would take that over basically giving them the ball w/ good field position. Frankly, w/ the way our secondary was depleted, I would have been holding my breath on a hail mary, so field position was as key for me as the clock, and our best chance for field position would have been to just kick away IMHO.

[brletich]

What would you guys be saying today if Norwood takes it another 80 and they kick the field goal? Should have quibbed......

 

Per the Score this morning, Lovie said he should have kicked it deep...

[madlithuanian]

WOuld time expire for an 80 yard return?

 

What would you guys be saying today if Norwood takes it another 80 and they kick the field goal? Should have quibbed......

[azbearsfan]

Per the Score this morning, Lovie said he should have kicked it deep...

 

What would he have said if Norwood returns it to FG range and they win like that?

 

 

The point is, on something like that, if it doesn't work then everyone is going to be screaming for the other thing. Its a hindsight deal.