Trade Vasher or Ogunleye?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

[Connorbear]

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

We don;t have to pay his contract but do take a prorated hit for his signing bonus. I don't know the details for Vash specifically.

 

Peace

[Pixote]

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

 

Personally, I would like to see the Bears work out something where we can keep Vasher. He'd be too costly to cut. I'd like to give him 1 more year.

[nfoligno]

Cap hit is the same whether you trade or cut the player.

 

The only difference to this "may" be that, under the new rules, you can designate a player to be your post June 1st cut (regardless when you cut them) so as to spread the cap hit over two seasons. If you trade the player, you likely have to eat the full cap hit up front, though I am not 100% positive of that.

 

I just don't see the point of trading Vasher right now. He would put a serious hit to our cap. His trade value as VERY low coming off a poor season, 2nd season w/ injury, and high contract, plus you then factor the cap hit. To me, it just seems our best direction is to just keep him for another year and see if he can turn it around w/ new coaching. If not, we can make a move next year, when the cap hit will not be quite as great.

 

Tait likely has minimal trade value as well as his base salary is going to be higher than his worth.

 

Wale could have some trade value though. Though he is not coming off a good year, I think the value of DEs is such that player get over-rated, and he could bring back something if we choose to deal him. My not be much, but a 4th or 5th could be in the cards.

 

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

[madlithuanian]

I hear you...

 

I wouldn't mind an attempt at a restructure. I think he can be valuable as a nickel for sure... Drop his price, and he's a good guy to have around. Maybe health issues have been the crux of his problems and they right themselves...

 

Cap hit is the same whether you trade or cut the player.

 

The only difference to this "may" be that, under the new rules, you can designate a player to be your post June 1st cut (regardless when you cut them) so as to spread the cap hit over two seasons. If you trade the player, you likely have to eat the full cap hit up front, though I am not 100% positive of that.

 

I just don't see the point of trading Vasher right now. He would put a serious hit to our cap. His trade value as VERY low coming off a poor season, 2nd season w/ injury, and high contract, plus you then factor the cap hit. To me, it just seems our best direction is to just keep him for another year and see if he can turn it around w/ new coaching. If not, we can make a move next year, when the cap hit will not be quite as great.

 

Tait likely has minimal trade value as well as his base salary is going to be higher than his worth.

 

Wale could have some trade value though. Though he is not coming off a good year, I think the value of DEs is such that player get over-rated, and he could bring back something if we choose to deal him. My not be much, but a 4th or 5th could be in the cards.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

 

The cap hit wouldn't change with a trade. Given Tait's cap number, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him cut or at least try to force a restructure. The Bears are likely going to move St. Clair to RT (and I expect them to resign him) and Williams is going to be the LT (hopefully he'll pan out) and than we might see them select another tackle to get groomed to take over for St. Clair (with St. Clair sliding inside) or the Bears just drafting a guard to go along with Beekman.

[BearSox]

I know that if we cut Tait, we'd gain around $7 million.

I know that if we cut Ogunleye, we'd gain around $4 million.

I know that if we cut Vasher, we'd lose around $7 million.

 

But what if we traded Ogunleye or Vasher? Would we have to trade for another high priced guy, or what? Let's say we sent Vasher to Oakland for a 5th round pick- do we still have to pay his contract?

You're numbers are way off.

 

If we cut Tait, we'd save 4.8 million.

 

If we cut Ogunleye, we'd save 4.8 million.

 

If we cut Vasher, we'd lose about 4.7-4.8 million, or roughly 2.4 million if we do that thing where we split it into two years when we cut him.

[danimal99]

I don't see either Tait or Ogun traded in the final yr of their contracts.

 

I see Vasher playing this season for the BEARS & granted with his injury history it maybe just 4-5 games.

 

Ogun should have a very good year. He'll want to look good and get as much as possible in free agency in 2010.

 

Tait's got about a quarter of a tank left. Let him play out hs contract and move on.

[AZ54]

I can't see Vasher going anywhere with his salary, the cap hit we'd take, and his low trade value right now. Why wouldn't a team think they could get the same player in Rd 4-6 of the draft? And that would be a player with "upside". Therefore, at this time (predraft) I agree with Nfol (damn that hurts) that our best course is to wait it out and see if he plays better this year.

 

Remember McBride has turned into a good special teams player so he seems likely to remain our 5th CB. We'll probably draft a CB late or sign a second/third tier FA for competition. On top of that we have the annual question of what to do with DManning, is he our nickel CB or is he our FS, or is he our KR who backs up those roles? Bottom line for Nate is that he really needs to end up as one of the top 3 outside CBs to stay on this team.

 

I will add however that if Bowman and Graham are playing far better than him he could be cut or traded in camp.

There's always a team getting hit by injuries or piss poor play and they become desperate for some help. At that time, as long as we can absorb the cap hit, we might end up letting Vasher go for a conditional late round pick. Which basically means you are cutting the guy but hoping he sticks on the other team so you get something out of nothing.

[bradjock]

I wouldn't mind an attempt at a restructure. I think he can be valuable as a nickel for sure... Drop his price, and he's a good guy to have around. Maybe health issues have been the crux of his problems and they right themselves...

 

Do we have much leverage to get him to restructure? I can't remember many players restructuring when the deal is relatively new. You hear of teams eating the contract but that's about it. When we already owe him so much money . . .

 

You mention that he can have value as a nickel, has anyone ever mentioned this other then message boards like this one?

 

Of course that makes D Manning our FS . . . . ugh.

[bradjock]

Remember McBride has turned into a good special teams player so he seems likely to remain our 5th CB. We'll probably draft a CB late or sign a second/third tier FA for competition.

 

Agreed that MrBride has turned into a nice special teams guy & back-up CB. As for drafting or signing a cb, JA should draft a cb every year.

 

On top of that we have the annual question of what to do with DManning, is he our nickel CB or is he our FS, or is he our KR who backs up those roles?

 

Right now D Manning is our FS, but I wonder how much of that is by default? Kind of like when Mark Bradley was declared our #1 WR. That was basically us saying, "We don't have anyone else right now, so looking at the roster, theoretically he's our #1." Just because D Manning is our FS, doesn't necessarily mean he'll stay there for long.

 

Bottom line for Nate is that he really needs to end up as one of the top 3 outside CBs to stay on this team.

 

Did you notice Terrance Metcalf stayed on the team even though he was buried on the depth chart? It's amazing what being owed money will do.

 

I will add however that if Bowman and Graham are playing far better than him he could be cut or traded in camp.

 

Graham can't get a damn interception to save his life and Bowman was cut then hurt. Meanwhile, I'm actually excited about both of these guys. Either way, there's still plenty of room on the roster for them, McBride, and Vasher.

[BigDaddy]

Ya know, I keep hearing an awful lot about cap hits as a reason why we can't cut somebody. First of all, this is NOT monopoly money here, it's real. To think that this organization would keep somebody whose clearly nowhere near the numbers on their contract would be to depressing to even imagine. So they take a cap hit, so what. You'd rather pay a bum 5M for nothing so you could hopefully reduce your cap hit at some later date? Even I won't believe the Bears are that damn stupid. P H U C K T H E C A P!!!! Rework his deal or cut the son of a bitch. It's just another mistake by a GM who is surely on his way out of town unless he rights this ship very quickly. And now that Lovie has opened his mouth about manning the defense, he's gonna make damn sure that we have the best guys out there because now he's on the hotseat. His statement about Marinelli making this line dominant again better be right. But back to vasher, he's clearly way overpaid and that needs to be rectified, if not, show the balls, cut him and move the phuck on. You wanna be like Pittsburgh, damnit, act like Pittsburgh.

[madlithuanian]

i really don't know...

 

Much will depend on how bad Vasher wants to be a contributing bear, and how much he thinks he could get elsewhere...

 

Do we have much leverage to get him to restructure? I can't remember many players restructuring when the deal is relatively new. You hear of teams eating the contract but that's about it. When we already owe him so much money . . .

 

You mention that he can have value as a nickel, has anyone ever mentioned this other then message boards like this one?

 

Of course that makes D Manning our FS . . . . ugh.

[madlithuanian]

Great points...

 

Ya know, I keep hearing an awful lot about cap hits as a reason why we can't cut somebody. First of all, this is NOT monopoly money here, it's real. To think that this organization would keep somebody whose clearly nowhere near the numbers on their contract would be to depressing to even imagine. So they take a cap hit, so what. You'd rather pay a bum 5M for nothing so you could hopefully reduce your cap hit at some later date? Even I won't believe the Bears are that damn stupid. P H U C K T H E C A P!!!! Rework his deal or cut the son of a bitch. It's just another mistake by a GM who is surely on his way out of town unless he rights this ship very quickly. And now that Lovie has opened his mouth about manning the defense, he's gonna make damn sure that we have the best guys out there because now he's on the hotseat. His statement about Marinelli making this line dominant again better be right. But back to vasher, he's clearly way overpaid and that needs to be rectified, if not, show the balls, cut him and move the phuck on. You wanna be like Pittsburgh, damnit, act like Pittsburgh.

[bradjock]

Ya know, I keep hearing an awful lot about cap hits as a reason why we can't cut somebody. First of all, this is NOT monopoly money here, it's real. To think that this organization would keep somebody whose clearly nowhere near the numbers on their contract would be to depressing to even imagine. So they take a cap hit, so what. You'd rather pay a bum 5M for nothing so you could hopefully reduce your cap hit at some later date? Even I won't believe the Bears are that damn stupid. P H U C K T H E C A P!!!! Rework his deal or cut the son of a bitch. It's just another mistake by a GM who is surely on his way out of town unless he rights this ship very quickly. And now that Lovie has opened his mouth about manning the defense, he's gonna make damn sure that we have the best guys out there because now he's on the hotseat. His statement about Marinelli making this line dominant again better be right. But back to vasher, he's clearly way overpaid and that needs to be rectified, if not, show the balls, cut him and move the phuck on. You wanna be like Pittsburgh, damnit, act like Pittsburgh.

 

You're over-simplifying things a bit. Vasher just turned 27 in November. We paid him to be the guy who had 16 interceptions his first three seasons with the Bears. The hope is to get him healthy, and get him back to where he was. Do you really want to pay him to leave so he can go to another team and have an 8 interception season? It's not always neatly cut & dried.

[Connorbear]

You're over-simplifying things a bit. Vasher just turned 27 in November. We paid him to be the guy who had 16 interceptions his first three seasons with the Bears. The hope is to get him healthy, and get him back to where he was. Do you really want to pay him to leave so he can go to another team and have an 8 interception season? It's not always neatly cut & dried.

Exactly. Give him another season to return to his previous form. If the D-line gets more pressure, he will make more plays. If he cannot stay on the field and make plays next yr, then move on.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

Agree we may not be in a great position to force a restructure, but why question a move to nickel. That makes more sense than half the moves I read about on this board.

 

Remember, Vasher was a dang good nickel for us when Azumah and McQ were our starters. In fact, he was his solid play at nickel that warranted his move to the starting lineup. If Graham beats him out for the starting job, why would we not look at him at nickel?

 

Yea, DM to FS is ugly, but I think that may be in the cards either way.

 

Do we have much leverage to get him to restructure? I can't remember many players restructuring when the deal is relatively new. You hear of teams eating the contract but that's about it. When we already owe him so much money . . .

 

You mention that he can have value as a nickel, has anyone ever mentioned this other then message boards like this one?

 

Of course that makes D Manning our FS . . . . ugh.

[bowlingtwig]

Agree we may not be in a great position to force a restructure, but why question a move to nickel. That makes more sense than half the moves I read about on this board.

 

Remember, Vasher was a dang good nickel for us when Azumah and McQ were our starters. In fact, he was his solid play at nickel that warranted his move to the starting lineup. If Graham beats him out for the starting job, why would we not look at him at nickel?

 

Yea, DM to FS is ugly, but I think that may be in the cards either way.

 

 

We need to get DM at one position and leave him there. We can't just keep changing his position every year like this. No wonder he sucks to begin the year.

[madlithuanian]

And that position is nickel! He's strived there, whereas as S, he's always struggled. And I think he's had more reps as S!

 

We need to get DM at one position and leave him there. We can't just keep changing his position every year like this. No wonder he sucks to begin the year.