scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I loves me a 3-4 defense, I hate the Packers but seeing their 3-4 2 times a year makes me feel like I'm missing out almost. Seeing Clay Matthews wild girly lookin self running wild is something I would love to see our undersized "DE" 1st round draft pick of last year SMC (Until he does something I refuse to learn how to spell his name) do to squeeze more value out of him. With the money they have, they need to bring Melton and Roach back and a LT must be brought in (unless they feel comfortable with Webb in a new scheme) to make this work. With that said they would have to make the change to a 3-4 through the draft by grabbing another LB and a monster DT.....IF Emery and Tucker wanna make the change here is my mock draft. (based off draftteks mock) 1st Round- Alec Ogletree LB Georgia- If he's there at 20 there's no question who I'm going with here. Even if they can't get that monster nose tackle and don't move to a 3-4 you're still filling a need here by replacing Urlacher. If they do make the switch to a 3-4 I would love..love, love, love, to see Briggs moved inside and Ogletree on the outside. Could you imagine a blitz where you got him, SMC, Pep, and Melton all coming at you??? Holy guacamole, thats a sexy thought for Bear fans and a scary thought for everyone else. 2nd Round- Travis Frederick OG Wisconsin- I'll stick with Draftteks pick here and go with Frederick, from what I've read he should be able to step in at either guard position right away. The line would then be Webb-Carimi-Garza-Frederick-FA or switch Webb and Carimi. 4th Round- Dallas Thomas OT Tennessee- CBS has him ranked as the 8th best OT in the draft and a 2nd round pick, if he somehow drops to the 4th round like in draftteks mock that would be incredible. He offers up another option if Webb or Carimi fail. 5th Round- Kwame Geathers NT Georgia- In the other thread I said I think his stock rises when the combine hits but right now drafttek has him being there in the 5th for the Bears to gobble up. Massive man, sure to be a solid NT in a 3-4 where he made All-SEC Freshman Team before the studlier John Jenkins came along and stole his NT spot. Geathers moved to the outside of the line where he played well, but at 6'6" 355 pounds he is better suited to play inside and I think could play right away if they make the switch to a 3-4. 6th Round- Jordan Rodgers QB Vandy- Not only just to piss off his brother Aaron (which would be awesome) but under the grooming of Trestman he could be a good QB. He's got the speed and toughness to develop into the type of pistol QB Trestman might want. He'd be a few years away if he ever amounted to anything but hey, he's a 6th round pick. How fun would it be to see little brother Rodgers beat Aaron and the Pack..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I love me some Alex Ogletree, but unless they find a quality OT through free agency, they simply cannot pass up taking an OL in the first round. You know how Angelo always said (rightly) that you cant go into the draft with glaring needs? That you need to be able to take the Best Player Available? He's right. I really truly hope we have our OT situation addressed, even if temporarily, in Free Agency. Then if a good young OT is there at 20, you can take him too. But if Ogletree is sitting there, and you have an OT already, I'd really love to see him as a Bear. I'm not a fan of the 3-4 tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 As I stated, for this to work a FA LT must be brought in or they're going to have enough faith in Webb working in a new system. Everyone is gonna hate the last part and will bash it but the fact remains that he ranked as an average LT in a horrible scheme that left him on an island 9 times outta 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 As I stated, for this to work a FA LT must be brought in or they're going to have enough faith in Webb working in a new system. Everyone is gonna hate the last part and will bash it but the fact remains that he ranked as an average LT in a horrible scheme that left him on an island 9 times outta 10. Keep in mind Briggs has stated plenty of times in the past he doesn't care to play inside as his skill is best suited on the outside. This also another reason why he stays put when URL gets hurt and misses time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Sure a FA LT, but if they come to the conclusion that Webb is good enough they need to be fired on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Keep in mind Briggs has stated plenty of times in the past he doesn't care to play inside as his skill is best suited on the outside. This also another reason why he stays put when URL gets hurt and misses time Well I'm ok with Briggs-Ogletree-Roach-SMC if he doesn't wanna move...the thought of Ogletree on the edge excited me but Briggs isn't exactly slow..Tree runs a 4.63 while Briggs runs a 4.75 (at one point anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Sure a FA LT, but if they come to the conclusion that Webb is good enough they need to be fired on the spot. Welp, I wouldn't be shocked if it happened sir. Emery already said he uses pro football focus and PFF gave him an average grade. He did that while being in a horrible scheme, it all depends on how the guy from the Saints views him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Emery is a smart man who is astute about politics and understands that Webb has been given extra chances. He will allow his new coaches to do their evaluations, but i don't think he will give Webb any benefit of the doubt, in fact, all things being equal the history says he will not be the starter. Now yes, if the new coaches say they can transform him into a beast fine, but your assumption that average is good enough does not sound like the beginning of a new regime. They are aiming higher than that. I understand how you have combined the two facts to get your conclusion. It's shaky at best. There are so many more considerations that go into it than the one score which says he is dead average. There will be a new starting LT for the Chicago Bears on opening day. McLellin is not a 3-4 backer either. You're way off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 McLellin is not a 3-4 backer either. You're way off base. Why were the Packers, Patriots, and other teams scouting McClellin as a 3-4 OLB then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Emery is a smart man who is astute about politics and understands that Webb has been given extra chances. He will allow his new coaches to do their evaluations, but i don't think he will give Webb any benefit of the doubt, in fact, all things being equal the history says he will not be the starter. Now yes, if the new coaches say they can transform him into a beast fine, but your assumption that average is good enough does not sound like the beginning of a new regime. They are aiming higher than that. I understand how you have combined the two facts to get your conclusion. It's shaky at best. There are so many more considerations that go into it than the one score which says he is dead average. There will be a new starting LT for the Chicago Bears on opening day. McLellin is not a 3-4 backer either. You're way off base. SMC absolutely profiles better at OLB in a 3-4, he's undersized at DE, he has great speed, and that's where he most played at Boise State. Getting back to the LT talk, I hope they address it via FA because outside of Joeckel and Fisher chances are all you're going to get out of a LT is average for the first couple years IMO. In which case why not just continue with Webb who still isn't making any kind of money and you can use your 1st rounder else where to improve the team. According to PFF, the source Emery quotes frequently, had Webb as our best overall OL..Therefore I see him starting somewhere on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I loves me a 3-4 defense, I hate the Packers but seeing their 3-4 2 times a year makes me feel like I'm missing out almost. Seeing Clay Matthews wild girly lookin self running wild is something I would love to see our undersized "DE" 1st round draft pick of last year SMC (Until he does something I refuse to learn how to spell his name) do to squeeze more value out of him. With the money they have, they need to bring Melton and Roach back and a LT must be brought in (unless they feel comfortable with Webb in a new scheme) to make this work. With that said they would have to make the change to a 3-4 through the draft by grabbing another LB and a monster DT.....IF Emery and Tucker wanna make the change here is my mock draft. (based off draftteks mock) 1st Round- Alec Ogletree LB Georgia- If he's there at 20 there's no question who I'm going with here. Even if they can't get that monster nose tackle and don't move to a 3-4 you're still filling a need here by replacing Urlacher. If they do make the switch to a 3-4 I would love..love, love, love, to see Briggs moved inside and Ogletree on the outside. Could you imagine a blitz where you got him, SMC, Pep, and Melton all coming at you??? Holy guacamole, thats a sexy thought for Bear fans and a scary thought for everyone else. 2nd Round- Travis Frederick OG Wisconsin- I'll stick with Draftteks pick here and go with Frederick, from what I've read he should be able to step in at either guard position right away. The line would then be Webb-Carimi-Garza-Frederick-FA or switch Webb and Carimi. 4th Round- Dallas Thomas OT Tennessee- CBS has him ranked as the 8th best OT in the draft and a 2nd round pick, if he somehow drops to the 4th round like in draftteks mock that would be incredible. He offers up another option if Webb or Carimi fail. 5th Round- Kwame Geathers NT Georgia- In the other thread I said I think his stock rises when the combine hits but right now drafttek has him being there in the 5th for the Bears to gobble up. Massive man, sure to be a solid NT in a 3-4 where he made All-SEC Freshman Team before the studlier John Jenkins came along and stole his NT spot. Geathers moved to the outside of the line where he played well, but at 6'6" 355 pounds he is better suited to play inside and I think could play right away if they make the switch to a 3-4. 6th Round- Jordan Rodgers QB Vandy- Not only just to piss off his brother Aaron (which would be awesome) but under the grooming of Trestman he could be a good QB. He's got the speed and toughness to develop into the type of pistol QB Trestman might want. He'd be a few years away if he ever amounted to anything but hey, he's a 6th round pick. How fun would it be to see little brother Rodgers beat Aaron and the Pack..... Did you see what happened to the Packers defense most of the year? Just cause you have a 3-4 d doesn't mean you are good or that it is better then what the Bears are running. Proof is in the pudding and the Bears track record under the 4-3 cover 2 is pretty damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I dont thinks Emery makes his decisions based on PFF. He may look at them, but if he's just reading Street & Smiths, then we're in a bunch of trouble. You've repeated your bit of sleuthing about a million times now: Emery reads PFF, PFF has Webb rated as average. This is hardly a slam dunk. I've watched the games. I've listened to Emery and Trestman. I do not see Webb as the LT on opening day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 U know whats sexy. A defense that can win games. Creates turnovers and doesn't allow the opposition to destroy u week in and week out. GB does indeed run a 3-4. Raise ur hands would you rather have our defense or GBs which got smoked on so many occasions. And don't dare tell me how GB was rated #11 in NFL rankings cuz those lie ask any packer fan yourself. My entire family is packer fans with 4 family members who live in GB and none of them believe for a second there D is any good. Fact is that it really doesn't matter what scheme u run. It all comes down to the players and weather they can perform the techniques correctly. Cover 2 can win. Just like a 3-4 D can win. No 1 particular scheme is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 U know whats sexy. A defense that can win games. Creates turnovers and doesn't allow the opposition to destroy u week in and week out. GB does indeed run a 3-4. Raise ur hands would you rather have our defense or GBs which got smoked on so many occasions. And don't dare tell me how GB was rated #11 in NFL rankings cuz those lie ask any packer fan yourself. My entire family is packer fans with 4 family members who live in GB and none of them believe for a second there D is any good. Fact is that it really doesn't matter what scheme u run. It all comes down to the players and weather they can perform the techniques correctly. Cover 2 can win. Just like a 3-4 D can win. No 1 particular scheme is best Yep, you're right. Time and again, many have said the Lovie 2 (or Cover 2 in general) was outdated and needed to be replaced. And I believe Lovie's reply many a times to those that questioned it was something to the effect of; 'We do what we do and you just have to beat us'. Most announcers would say that their scheme was such that it didn't change dramatically from game to game. But what made the difference in the schemes were the players playing them. So where was the defense rated this year? And the fact that four of the starters on Defense were named to the Pro Bowl should be indicitive of something. Now if the team were to go to a 3-4 would the defense necessarily drop off? I can't believe that Tillman and Jennings are going to be any less lethal at CB nor Wright and Conte as Safeties. But I would almost bet that Urlacher (although he thrived in a Cover 2 - mostly due to his past Safety experience IMHO) would benefit in having another LB covering the other half of the middle that he couldn't. The biggest drawback to the 3-4 (again, IMHO) is the vulnerability to short gains, mostly on the ground. Where the Cover 2 is vulnerable to the short West Coast style passing so too is the 3-4 in that regard. Obviously each scheme has its pros and cons but you're right, ultimately it comes down to the player(s) buying in and performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Did you see what happened to the Packers defense most of the year? Just cause you have a 3-4 d doesn't mean you are good or that it is better then what the Bears are running. Proof is in the pudding and the Bears track record under the 4-3 cover 2 is pretty damn good. San Fran and Baltimore run a 3-4 as well and look where they are this year. Also the Pack comment was more based on what they do with Clay Matthews and how I want the Bears to utilize SMC the same way. I think if we keep him at DE I'll have to live through years of Bears fan calling him a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 San Fran and Baltimore run a 3-4 as well and look where they are this year. Both of those guys have the necessary players to run that scheme AND there techniques are great. Just because those guys can excel at it does that mean we can immediately switch and be great. No it doesn't. We would like to think because we have good players that they could all run it just fine but fact is we don't know. Fact is our D has been very good to solid for a long time. Once again its not that the 3-4 is any better. It all comes down to having the necessary players to run it and those players buying into that system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Both of those guys have the necessary players to run that scheme AND there techniques are great. Just because those guys can excel at it does that mean we can immediately switch and be great. No it doesn't. We would like to think because we have good players that they could all run it just fine but fact is we don't know. Fact is our D has been very good to solid for a long time. Once again its not that the 3-4 is any better. It all comes down to having the necessary players to run it and those players buying into that system Aka a monster NT and 4 LBs. If 54 is gone we already need to address one of those needs regardless of what scheme they use and it also brings SMC into the picture where I believe he'd be better utilized. Finding a huge NT in the late rounds shouldn't be a problem either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Aka a monster NT and 4 LBs. If 54 is gone we already need to address one of those needs regardless of what scheme they use and it also brings SMC into the picture where I believe he'd be better utilized. Finding a huge NT in the late rounds shouldn't be a problem either. I don't buy this at all. Finding the big NT for a 3-4 scheme can be incredibly difficult. Teams that make that switch struggle all of the time because of that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Though the last two teams standing play a 3-4 scheme,this years playoffs show that the scheme can be attacked with the "read option" and with variations of the spread. Teams are taking RBs and TEs and spliting them out wide to get that favorable matchup one on one.Many of the Packer fans have been calling for Capers head so I'm not so sure that his version is one we should hold up as the model to follow.Dick LaBeau of Pittsburgh is another of the old guard 3-4 guys and his defense was a little down this year.The Patriots version hasn't worked since Vrabel, Law and McGinest have left so like what was said earlier this thread the players executing make whatever scheme work. BTW Whatever PFF says Lance Louis was the Bears best OL this year even though he missed quite a few games. If healthy,he and Garza should be the guys to build around.Since Joeckel and Fisher are sure to be gone by the 20th pick and I believe the spot is too early to take Lane Johnson so I'm still on the Barrett Jones bandwagon with the idea of Garza going back to left OG. I may be wrong but I believe thet the top FA OTs are Bushrod, Long and Clady.If Bushrod is one of them I could see our new OC, his former coach ask for him to be added to the mix. I believe Carimi and Webb should both be backups with some younger guys added as competition like draftable guys OTs Johnson or Long in rd. 2. McClellin played almost like a roving position on Boise's defense and would drop in coverage similar to what Marinelli was doing with him at times.I could see a scenario where Roach is brought back at a salary thats a better fit than Urlacher's and McClellin moving to OLB and and rushing on 3rd and long in a morphed version of 3-4 with Wooten ,Peppers and Melton rushing also. The new DC's version of the cover 2 4-3 is a little similar to the one used by Jauron and Blache here with a bigger DT inside that takes up blockers and I'm not sure wehave a player like that on the roster right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't buy this at all. Finding the big NT for a 3-4 scheme can be incredibly difficult. Teams that make that switch struggle all of the time because of that position. Meh, you got anything to back that up? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything I'm just curious. A NT seems like the easiest job on the field...just be huge lol. These guys usually dont show up in the stat sheets that much, case and point being Isaac Sopoaga, 27 tackles, 1 sack for the soon to be champion 9ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Though the last two teams standing play a 3-4 scheme,this years playoffs show that the scheme can be attacked with the "read option" and with variations of the spread. Teams are taking RBs and TEs and spliting them out wide to get that favorable matchup one on one.Many of the Packer fans have been calling for Capers head so I'm not so sure that his version is one we should hold up as the model to follow.Dick LaBeau of Pittsburgh is another of the old guard 3-4 guys and his defense was a little down this year.The Patriots version hasn't worked since Vrabel, Law and McGinest have left so like what was said earlier this thread the players executing make whatever scheme work. BTW Whatever PFF says Lance Louis was the Bears best OL this year even though he missed quite a few games. If healthy,he and Garza should be the guys to build around.Since Joeckel and Fisher are sure to be gone by the 20th pick and I believe the spot is too early to take Lane Johnson so I'm still on the Barrett Jones bandwagon with the idea of Garza going back to left OG. I may be wrong but I believe thet the top FA OTs are Bushrod, Long and Clady.If Bushrod is one of them I could see our new OC, his former coach ask for him to be added to the mix. I believe Carimi and Webb should both be backups with some younger guys added as competition like draftable guys OTs Johnson or Long in rd. 2. McClellin played almost like a roving position on Boise's defense and would drop in coverage similar to what Marinelli was doing with him at times.I could see a scenario where Roach is brought back at a salary thats a better fit than Urlacher's and McClellin moving to OLB and and rushing on 3rd and long in a morphed version of 3-4 with Wooten ,Peppers and Melton rushing also. The new DC's version of the cover 2 4-3 is a little similar to the one used by Jauron and Blache here with a bigger DT inside that takes up blockers and I'm not sure wehave a player like that on the roster right now. That's something I've been meaning to ask...I hear it all the time that SMC is a OLB in a 3-4...What about in a 4-3? What about at MLB in a 4-3?? After watching Shea last season I just can't see him as a DE. I guess he could put on some weight and strength and turn out to be serviceable but I think his speed projects more at OLB. I just hate to see a 1st round pick get wasted because he's playing out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 regardless of what we do scheme wise i still like my draft. Geathers in the 5th would be a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Meh, you got anything to back that up? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything I'm just curious. A NT seems like the easiest job on the field...just be huge lol. These guys usually dont show up in the stat sheets that much, case and point being Isaac Sopoaga, 27 tackles, 1 sack for the soon to be champion 9ers. Well if ur just looking for a huge guy to play NT then sure that's easy however its more complex than that lol. In order for the 3-4 to flourish u must have a huge guy(like u mentioned) but he also MUST command a double team occupying the center and 1 of the guards. Needs to be powerful enough to push the pocket in which allows the ends and typically rush LB to do there work. Typically this guy is the star on the defense without the notoriety because like u said they dont get stats. GB has a nice NT in BJ Raji. Problem there is injury. When guy goes down that DL can no longer get pressure on the qb. Regardless of what style of D u want to run the key is the Dline must sustain pressure on the qb. In a 3-4 its a little harder cuz ur talking 3 down lineman against 5 OL guys and u can't always blitz a LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Well if ur just looking for a huge guy to play NT then sure that's easy however its more complex than that lol. In order for the 3-4 to flourish u must have a huge guy(like u mentioned) but he also MUST command a double team occupying the center and 1 of the guards. Needs to be powerful enough to push the pocket in which allows the ends and typically rush LB to do there work. Typically this guy is the star on the defense without the notoriety because like u said they dont get stats. GB has a nice NT in BJ Raji. Problem there is injury. When guy goes down that DL can no longer get pressure on the qb. Regardless of what style of D u want to run the key is the Dline must sustain pressure on the qb. In a 3-4 its a little harder cuz ur talking 3 down lineman against 5 OL guys and u can't always blitz a LB If they were able to snag a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 4th or 5th they'd have just that. I think his draft stock is gonna rise considerably though and he might not be there in the 4th. Per rotoworld Geathers was forced to play a lot of end in a three man front and rotate in at nose tackle when John Jenkins needed a breath. The latter is Geathers projected position, since he sports a mammoth frame. He may even end up better than the veteran John Jenkins in the long run If he really does make it to the 4th or 5th some is gonna have themselves a steal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 If they were able to snag a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 4th or 5th they'd have just that. I think his draft stock is gonna rise considerably though and he might not be there in the 4th. Per rotoworld If he really does make it to the 4th or 5th some is gonna have themselves a steal I don't know much about him. Can't say i see to many UGA games. 1st impression i have is that he looks interesting. Dude isn't just huge but for a guy who weighs 355 i gotta say he carries that weight very well. Looks very good for that size. Nfldraftscout.com. also confirms ur 5th rd thinking having him currently as the #14 DT on there board. But didn't see him listed for any AS games is confusing. But good workouts plus his bloodline could get him into 4 im guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.