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dawhizz

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A few tidbits I picked up on . Velus Jones has did KRs every where he went. In his career he never had a fumble or muffed punt. That's unbelievable. Never missed any games due to injury.

Brisker and Gordon didnt have a penality  both of the last two yrs. Between the two , only gave up one TD in the last few yrs. 

C J Avery-Jack Sanborn and Jaylan Alexander all lead their teams in tackles in 2021.

 

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19 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

A few tidbits I picked up on . Velus Jones has did KRs every where he went. In his career he never had a fumble or muffed punt. That's unbelievable. Never missed any games due to injury.

Brisker and Gordon didnt have a penality  both of the last two yrs. Between the two , only gave up one TD in the last few yrs. 

C J Avery-Jack Sanborn and Jaylan Alexander all lead their teams in tackles in 2021.

 

I like it!

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3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

A few tidbits I picked up on . Velus Jones has did KRs every where he went. In his career he never had a fumble or muffed punt. That's unbelievable. Never missed any games due to injury.

Brisker and Gordon didnt have a penality  both of the last two yrs. Between the two , only gave up one TD in the last few yrs. 

C J Avery-Jack Sanborn and Jaylan Alexander all lead their teams in tackles in 2021.

 

I also read this about Brisker and Gordon. Amazing! A combined one TD allowed over the course of 2 years by the duo is awesome.; The fact that they did this while playing disciplined, penalty free football, equally amazing (especially when you see how many penalties our secondary was guilty of last year). 

I've read so many good things about V Jones. Why some knock him just because he is 25 yrs old baffles me. It's not like he is a washed up veteran on his last contract before forced retirement. LOL I'm anxious to see if our new OC can make use of this man's unique talent set. If he can, we may have the next Deebo.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Pixote said:

I also read this about Brisker and Gordon. Amazing! A combined one TD allowed over the course of 2 years by the duo is awesome.; The fact that they did this while playing disciplined, penalty free football, equally amazing (especially when you see how many penalties our secondary was guilty of last year). 

I've read so many good things about V Jones. Why some knock him just because he is 25 yrs old baffles me. It's not like he is a washed up veteran on his last contract before forced retirement. LOL I'm anxious to see if our new OC can make use of this man's unique talent set. If he can, we may have the next Deebo.

Pix,

Check out this article about Jones' age:

https://beargoggleson.com/2022/05/06/velus-jones-chicago-bears/

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It's certainly an eye opener. A very well researched article.

Does anyone know why he transferred to Tennessee? I assume that the change of teams/systems may have slowed his development.

He also, like many others, had a lost season because of Covid. The damn pandemic slowed the development of many players.

So I wonder, if he hadn't changed systems (why did he?) and wasn't slowed by the  pandemic, would he have had his breakout year a year or two sooner? Would this have changed the entire discussion (skillfully presented)?

I'm hoping this proves to be the exception to the rule established by the writer's research because of the variables I mentioned.

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1 hour ago, Pixote said:

It's certainly an eye opener. A very well researched article.

Does anyone know why he transferred to Tennessee? I assume that the change of teams/systems may have slowed his development.

He also, like many others, had a lost season because of Covid. The damn pandemic slowed the development of many players.

So I wonder, if he hadn't changed systems (why did he?) and wasn't slowed by the  pandemic, would he have had his breakout year a year or two sooner? Would this have changed the entire discussion (skillfully presented)?

I'm hoping this proves to be the exception to the rule established by the writer's research because of the variables I mentioned.

Yeah, it looks like he wasn't getting an opportunity on offense because he was so valuable on special teams. A catch 22 perhaps. 

Good catch on the COVID stuff. How many players played several seasons at one school before transferring during COVID? That surely would bring that list way down. 

I myself have higher hopes for him, but I am not expecting anything crazy. Cohen had 53 receptions for 353 yards his rookie year. I don't think Jones will have that many targets, but something in the mid-30s for receptions and 400+ yards is not out of the question.

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58 minutes ago, adam said:

Yeah, it looks like he wasn't getting an opportunity on offense because he was so valuable on special teams. A catch 22 perhaps. 

Good catch on the COVID stuff. How many players played several seasons at one school before transferring during COVID? That surely would bring that list way down. 

I myself have higher hopes for him, but I am not expecting anything crazy. Cohen had 53 receptions for 353 yards his rookie year. I don't think Jones will have that many targets, but something in the mid-30s for receptions and 400+ yards is not out of the question.

I'd be happy with 30-40 receptions, 400+ yards receiving and 4+ touchdowns. 

Peace

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3 hours ago, Connorbear said:

I'd be happy with 30-40 receptions, 400+ yards receiving and 4+ touchdowns. 

Peace

We have to accept Jones for what he is and not what we were hoping for (#1 or starting X WR).   He is a jack of all trades and he's never going to be our starting X WR even if he can line up there on occasion.  For perspective on value let's compare against other unique players:   Cordarrelle Patterson. drafted 29th overall,   Devin Hester 57th overall.   Velus Jones 71st overall, and Tarik Cohen 119th overall.   

Let's compare subjectively: 

Hester:  I'm not saying he'll be what Hester was on returns but he should be good to very good, and like Hester he can do both KR and PR.  Hester also offered very little as a WR/RB, nor did he play well as a DB, nor did he have special teams coverage value.  So in the end despite teams' best efforts he was just a returner, HoF type, and I'm glad he played for us. 

Cordarrelle Patterson:  Velus compares very favorably to what Patterson brings to special teams both in returns and coverage.  That's very good and this is the reason, plus the little he adds on offense, Patterson keeps getting contracts in the $5mil/yr range.  NFL teams value having a game day talent who can add to both sides of special teams and on offense.   Patterson was ok in spot duty as a RB on sweeps (please Nagy-him up the middle near the goal line) but on multiple teams he was never very good as a WR.  In fact his hands are so bad teams didn't really worry about him after he was 10yds downfield.  

Tarik Cohen:   Tarik added value as occasional slot WR/RB but he wasn't particularly good at RB no matter how many times Nagy ran him up the middle.   He was ok in the slot and offered the occasional deep route which proved challenging for defenses.  He was primarily just a PR on specials but did some KR and he offered nothing on special teams coverage.  I personally think he lost the heart for the game and thus was overpaid by Pace but he too earned around $5mil/yr for his talents.  At 119 the Bears got good value out of Cohen on his first contract.  

Velus:  He's was #1 KR in the SEC two years in a row.  He was #1 PR yards, and yd/return in SEC in 2021 (only year he did PRs).   Receptions he was 10th in the SEC.  Receiving yards he was 9th in the SEC.  https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/velus-jones-jr-1.html.   Add in that he is a very good gunner on kick coverage although I don't know where you find those stats, or how you quantify it.   What I see is a guy who was drafted to be our 3/4th WR and I don't think the expectation is higher than that because the team is happy to have his special teams ability on game day rosters, and those things take energy too.   Effectively that can free up a game day roster spot so Eberflus can add a Dline player to keep his rotation plans.  It might even make it possible to keep a guy like Robinson active so he can get a few game day reps to help his development.  I'm not sure how you put draft value on that but the coaches seem be happy to have it.   On top of that, compared to Hester, Patterson, or even Cohen, Velus offers much more as a receiver.  Even if he always has a limited route tree he's a legit threat at all 3 levels of the field, and RAC ability demands attention from a defense.  He's better at RAC than Cohen was on bubble screens or jet sweeps (not hard to be better than someone who ran out of bounds most of the time).  He might compare to Hester here in RAC although the styles are different.  He can handle routes over the middle which Cohen nor Hester could do (size limitations) and he can get deep behind a CB or S and catch the ball (unlike Patterson and Hester never offered much either as a deep threat, Cohen did).    

Let's do a further comparison against the player I thought we'd be targeting at 39:  Christian Watson who went   34th overall.   FWIW Watson was a 5th yr Senior and just about to turn 23 so about 20mo younger than Velus.  

2021 Velus:   63 rec,  807yds,  13.0 ypc,   7 rec TD,  15 yds rushing,   1 TD special teams,  628 KR yds,  272 PR yds

2021 Watson:  43 rec, 801 yds, 18.6 ypc,  7 rec TD,  114 yds rushing,  KR TD = 0,  227 KR yds,   0 PR yds

I agree Watson has better potential to develop into a starting X WR, however, given the fact Velus has put up his stats against SEC competition I think it's reasonable to expect what he does will translate well to the NFL, certainly at least as well as Watson who has a huge step up in competition.  Yet we got that value at 71 vs. 34.  Long term I expect Watson to outperform Jones as a WR but even if he does we'll still have the special teams value and a gunner who can force a fair catch on a punt.  That alone can save you 5-10yds of field position several times a game.  That might keep a team out of FG range once or twice a game.  What's the draft value in that?   

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9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

 

Tarik Cohen:   Tarik added value as occasional slot WR/RB but he wasn't particularly good at RB no matter how many times Nagy ran him up the middle.   He was ok in the slot and offered the occasional deep route which proved challenging for defenses.  He was primarily just a PR on specials but did some KR and he offered nothing on special teams coverage.  I personally think he lost the heart for the game and thus was overpaid by Pace but he too earned around $5mil/yr for his talents.  At 119 the Bears got good value out of Cohen on his first contract.  

 

Cohen averaged 75 receptions between 18-19 and had 53 his rookie year (before Nagy), so I don't know if you can say he was primarily just a PR. In his first 3 seasons, he was 2nd, 1st, and 2nd on the team in receptions. He was actually pretty effective out of the backfield until 2019 too. In 17-18, he averaged 4.3 and 4.5 Y/A. 

I doubt Jones will ever hit 75 receptions in a year. I am thinking he will put up something similar to Anthony Miller numbers (receptions from 30-50, yards from 400-600, TDs from 2-5). 

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4 hours ago, adam said:

Cohen averaged 75 receptions between 18-19 and had 53 his rookie year (before Nagy), so I don't know if you can say he was primarily just a PR. In his first 3 seasons, he was 2nd, 1st, and 2nd on the team in receptions. He was actually pretty effective out of the backfield until 2019 too. In 17-18, he averaged 4.3 and 4.5 Y/A. 

I doubt Jones will ever hit 75 receptions in a year. I am thinking he will put up something similar to Anthony Miller numbers (receptions from 30-50, yards from 400-600, TDs from 2-5). 

That statement was in relation to his usage on special teams.  i agree he was effective out of the slot and we should have just kept him there instead of adding all the snaps at RB.  I agree, I doubt Jones ever sees 75 receptions in a season but with a 17 game season 4 per game is 68 on a season.   

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On 5/8/2022 at 1:04 PM, dawhizz said:

Anybody have an Athletic subscription and willing to summarize what they said about the Bears draft in this recent article?

https://theathletic.com/3294957/2022/05/06/nfl-draft-execs-unfiltered/?source=freeweeklyemail&campaign=602288

The first paragraph summarizes the article:

This draft ended any confusion over the Bears’ objectives under new GM Ryan Poles and new head coach Matt Eberflus. They are embarking on a long-term rebuild, not scrambling to prop up the quarterback they inherited, Justin Fields, for the best possible short-term results.

 

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All of these national stories are predicated on the fact we didnt take a WR or OL with our first three picks. They give no value to Pringle as an ascending player, dont look at the potential of Velus Jones as a contributor his first year.  They view our OL as not good because we didnt pay for a high priced FA. Our OL will be better based on Patrick at OC, Whitehair playing better, Trevin Jenkins being a stud. RG still has to play out and they still could bring in a Duane Brown for LT. It just isnt complete yet on what the OL will be day one starting the season.

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https://twitter.com/C https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/status/1526714390002774016?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1526714390002774016|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F88009693-kyler-gordons-incredible-play-in-rookie-camp-should-leave-chicago-bears-fans-buzzing hicagoBears/status/1526714390002774016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1526714390002774016%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F88009693-kyler-gordons-incredible-play-in-rookie-camp-should-leave-chicago-bears-fans-buzzing https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/status/1526714390002774016?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1526714390002774016|twgr^|t

wcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F88009693-kyler-gordons-incredible-play-in-rookie-camp-should-leave-chicago-bears-fans-buzzing

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Wow that is a seriously underthrown pass.  Hard to say if it was the wrong route but for Gordon to be able to come back on that and pick it off says a lot.  I'm guessing this is the same play but Finke is listed as #8 on the Bears site but jersey numbers at this point change frequently.  In any case that WR doesn't have the burst to challenge Gordon and he was going nowhere against his coverage.   I look forward to seeing Velus against Gordon.   

https://www.chicagobears.com/news/quick-hits-bears-top-pick-gordon-lighting-it-up

The ball skills that second-round pick Kyler Gordon demonstrated at Washington were on display during the Bears' first two OTA practices Monday and Tuesday.

On one play, the rookie cornerback ran stride-for-stride with receiver Chris Finke, stopped on a dime, turned around and leaped high in the air to intercept the ball.

"Kyler's been lighting it up the last two days, I'll just tell you that," coach Matt Eberflus said following Tuesday's practice. "The guy's got tremendous ball skills. He's been playing defense the right way and we're very impressed with him.

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15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Wow that is a seriously underthrown pass.  Hard to say if it was the wrong route but for Gordon to be able to come back on that and pick it off says a lot. 

The pass wasn't intended for Finke.  Gordon handed Finke off to the deep help and broke on the guy running the out/crossing route.  It'd be great to see what was happening behind the pick.  Looks like the QB threw too early and slightly low.  Regardless, it was definitely an ill advised pass, considering the cluster of traffic.

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1 minute ago, Mongo3451 said:

The pass wasn't intended for Finke.  Gordon handed Finke off to the deep help and broke on the guy running the out/crossing route.  It'd be great to see what was happening behind the pick.  Looks like the QB threw too early and slightly low.  Regardless, it was definitely an ill advised pass, considering the cluster of traffic.

Good call.  

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Not sure I've seen this here on our board.  I came across this on Bearswire cross-referenced from ESPN where Matt Bowen selected Brisker as one of the top 10 best fits among the rookie draft picks:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2022/insider/story/_/id/33891791/nfl-draft-2022-best-team-fits-top-rookies-perfect-landing-spots-midround-steals-early-impact-potential

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/16/chicago-bears-jaquan-brisker-dubbed-perfect-fit-2022-nfl-draft/

Brisker is a classic fit for Matt Eberflus’ scheme in Chicago as a defender with multidimensional traits. His play style reminds me of Bills safety Micah Hyde. With a smooth pedal, split-field range and easy transition ability, Brisker can drive downhill on the ball from the deep half or match vertically in Quarters. When the Bears do play their single-high schemes, look for Brisker to rotate down, tracking the ball in the run game or lurking underneath in coverage. A highly instinctive player with disruptive traits, Brisker will pair with safety Eddie Jackson in the Bears’ heavily defined system.

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On 5/18/2022 at 8:49 PM, AZ54 said:

Not sure I've seen this here on our board.  I came across this on Bearswire cross-referenced from ESPN where Matt Bowen selected Brisker as one of the top 10 best fits among the rookie draft picks:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2022/insider/story/_/id/33891791/nfl-draft-2022-best-team-fits-top-rookies-perfect-landing-spots-midround-steals-early-impact-potential

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/16/chicago-bears-jaquan-brisker-dubbed-perfect-fit-2022-nfl-draft/

Brisker is a classic fit for Matt Eberflus’ scheme in Chicago as a defender with multidimensional traits. His play style reminds me of Bills safety Micah Hyde. With a smooth pedal, split-field range and easy transition ability, Brisker can drive downhill on the ball from the deep half or match vertically in Quarters. When the Bears do play their single-high schemes, look for Brisker to rotate down, tracking the ball in the run game or lurking underneath in coverage. A highly instinctive player with disruptive traits, Brisker will pair with safety Eddie Jackson in the Bears’ heavily defined system.

Gordon, Johnson, Brisker, Jackson with Young/Graham makes for an extremely talented starting secondary, something the Bears haven't had in a long time. 

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6 hours ago, adam said:

Gordon, Johnson, Brisker, Jackson with Young/Graham makes for an extremely talented starting secondary, something the Bears haven't had in a long time. 

Add in what's his face from Tennessee who played nickel and shut down some really good tight ends last year. 

 

I hope they can bring back a healthy Larry O or a solid 3T gets cut. I like their ends and I can live with Jones as the main NT. LBs should be solid too. 

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Not sure where to stick this but seen an interview with Morgan the OL coach that stated he likes Borom a lot and was his idea to move him to LT. Also it was mentioned that in his last yr in college, he did not allow a QB pressure, the only OT in college football that yr to do that. He played for Missouri in the SEC . That's a big deal.

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42 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Add in what's his face from Tennessee who played nickel and shut down some really good tight ends last year. 

 

I hope they can bring back a healthy Larry O or a solid 3T gets cut. I like their ends and I can live with Jones as the main NT. LBs should be solid too. 

Ah yes, I forgot about Cruikshank and DHC in there for DIME packages. 

Larry O would be a huge addition, even if he misses a month or so. Even if it was 6 games, then come in for the MNF game against NE would be great. 

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3 hours ago, adam said:

Ah yes, I forgot about Cruikshank and DHC in there for DIME packages. 

Larry O would be a huge addition, even if he misses a month or so. Even if it was 6 games, then come in for the MNF game against NE would be great. 

I wouldn't count on Larry O.  He was upset about the process.  Also, other players did not like the fact the Bears pulled the contract of the table.

This will be a high draft pick next year.

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19 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I wouldn't count on Larry O.  He was upset about the process.  Also, other players did not like the fact the Bears pulled the contract of the table.

This will be a high draft pick next year.

He failed the physical, which is part of the process. Every team in the league would do the same thing. Poles even said he was open to signing him later. Larry O may not want to come back but he at least knows the Bears are interested. 

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3 hours ago, adam said:

He failed the physical, which is part of the process. Every team in the league would do the same thing. Poles even said he was open to signing him later. Larry O may not want to come back but he at least knows the Bears are interested. 

There obviously a problem or someone else would have signed him. Hopefully his condition gets better and then we can sign him.

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