BearFan PHX

What if we just have opinions, positive and negative, and that doesnt mean our entire outlook is positive or negative? What if we just really love the Bears and every comment isnt evidence of a pattern that we have some kind of personality?

4490! Nice!

I AM NOT GREAT AT LOOKING AT TAPE. Ive said it a thousand times. i think if ANYONE looked at the tape they would see the same things I see. And I dont have a thousand opinions from looking at tape. Just a couple. A couple of things stood out to me. I am not saying I am the greatest evaluator, Im just saying that for example Banks looked really good on tape and I didnt understand people like Brugler who had him going in the 20s. What I was saying was that every time you negated my opinion, or a lot of other people's here, you did it by invoking the great and powerful Brugler. As if he was the final word. And he isnt. Hes just another opinion. I was saying stop telling us all that your source knows and we cant possibly because we are just fans. If that was true, then shut down this board and we can all read Brugler. What is so hard about that? As to your other point that the Banks pick was "mute" (the word is moot) I said I KNEW that he was good - and his selection at 9 proved that i was right. But I also didnt know if the Bears would pick him at 10 or not. You misread that, like so many things I say, that I was saying the Bears WOULD have taken him, when actually in all humility, I was saying that I couldnt possibly know that. Seriously, do you read these posts and post when youre drunk? Im not being mean, Im actually asking.

right, but youre listing conclusions that what happened in the draft tells us what the Bears thoguht, and I dont think that evidence is enough to support the claims, or in at least one case, the evidence disproves it?

well I cant PROVE it, but I think Poles thought Ersery would still be there after the trade back. I think he got too cute - correctly predicted no teams ahead of him would take Ersery, but failed to cover for the possibility that the Texans (or someone) would trade up for him. Thats where I think Poles got too cute. He is so focused on being disciplined and not reaching, but sometimes, straining for that extra 5th round pick isnt worth taking a chance on losing a guy you need. And that's *IF* they see Ersery the way I do, which I will never know if they did or not. But my guess is they traded down too far or too much. The prize for trading down was getting either Burden or Turner. You could have had either one and Ersery without the trade. But to get both, you had to downgrade Ersery to Trapilo. Again, depending on how they had Ersery and Trapilo evaluated, this either worked, or we got screwed by the Texans. And it felt like we made the same error each time with HBs, just missing big names each time. It felt like the year that Aaron Donald went one pick before us.

hahaha me too! As Ive said before, i think you are loyal to anyone on our team, and I am more like loyal to the team, and not specifically the players on it. Each way is good. Just dont worry if people are criticizing. Poles' feelings arent hurt by anything i say, and if any coach or player or GM does good things, I'll support those things, and Ill criticize the bad stuff. All hoping to make the team better. Also, believe it or not I dont dislike you. I just dont like when you say things are facts when they arent really proven. As you agree, most things are opinions and cant really be proved. But I dont want to argue with you in particular, I just dont like when you say some pundit says something so it must be right. i will be wrong plenty, so will you and so will the pundits, but my belief is that all of us have valid opinions in general? I dont care if some big shot disagrees with me, if i see what I see, then i know what i saw. But with most things, there isnt enough to see to KNOW. Only a few things every year for me that i feel I really know. Like I KNOW Banks is a good prospect, but couldnt possibly know if the Bears would take him or not.

It should be a matchup nightmare for sure.

Banks was already gone. How did my narrative die? We cant know what they would have done. But they DID spend a 2nd rounder on LT so they must think they need something - even if its more competition? They didnt take a OG or OC? So they felt LT was something that needed addressing. With a high pick. No matter who ends up starting, they did what they did, taking an LT. Youre not making any sense.

I didnt say *I* have to see tape - you just talked about how important it is to see it yourself, and so when I "wept a tear of joy" it was because you were finally agreeing and saying youd look at the tape - so how do i think other people dont? I was saying i hope you DO! I think people look and we all have opinions, and I dont think anyone's opinion is fact, just another opinion, whether its me or you or some pundit. But occasionally I will see something so clear that i am shocked anyone else looks at film and thinks something different. It's only like 1 or 2 "facts" a year. Not everything at all. Most things are murky.

I agree. I am not saying I'm right, I'm saying you cant say you're right either so how can you list things we now "know?" Just because Im saying you dont know factually doesnt mean Im saying I do.

youre full of it. They targeted a bunch of HBs and got outplayed by teams right above them. Poles said as much. Dont ask me to find it, but it was in one of the press conferences, not the first day. And I believe he was targeting Ersery too before Texas traded up and took him. I can't say I KNOW that, but you cant say you know we werent either. And so what we took and that we traded down doesnt prove anything. You really are making a lot of sweeping conclusions based on patterns that arent large enough to count as proof. SAnd a lot of them seem like attempts to prove you were right. Everyone else is talking about the team, not beating eachother. #3 is right. They wouldnt have drafted him if they didnt think he could play. But I think Poles messed up big time this year. He did play the draft right for value, but i think he got outfoxed on players several times. Specifically at LT and HB. On the other hand, we have Burden, who isnt a need but was great value. I am sure the players we took into the 4th round or so will be good for us. But I dont think this was Poles' hope or plan. The player Evals are probably really good because of the coaching staff, but the way he played the day I think he didnt do that well. But most of all Johnson will know whether Poles got the right guys, or whether we whiffed and had to go to plan B and C too often. And if that's the case, Johnson has the juice to oust Poles in a year or two. Not predicting that, but just going through the various scenarios. I think LT, HB and GM are our biggest weaknesses.

no we dont have to assume that at all, and the argument he is making isn't that they would have taken Banks so that proves anything. Thats your strawman version of it. What he is saying is that Braxton at his best is easily now the worst OL we have on the starting 5, and he is injured and wont be back for a while. And Kiran has nothing but possibilities - nothing good on tape. In fact the most generous thing we can do is to not hold him accountable for how he looked last year. And fairly, we are doing that. He is a clean slate. But that's not any positive evidence of anything. And lastly, whatever you think of Zapilo, they spent a 2nd round pick on him. That means they are not happy at LT. This narrative you keep trying to resurrect died a logical death when they spent a 2nd round pick on LT. There is no evidence they are feeling fine with Jones and Amagadje at all. We can hope Amagadje will develop, but the 2nd round pick says the Bears arent gambling on that at all.

he will have a very specialized role for us. He will only watch film on GOlden, he will practice agaisnt VR Goldens, his only job will be to shut down Matthew Golden LOL

why is this helpful. this is a sports talk board, and people are expressing opinions thats what its for! Just because people have questions doesnt mean they are wallowing in misery. Pundits can be wrong, and so can scouts and GMs. So its Ok for people to have questions or doubts isnt it?

I wept a tear of joy when you posted this!

I think a lot of these guys can be paired up with the position coaches they are gifts for, and probably put in a word for? Maybe that's why it looks so weird this year. Johnson - Loveland Randle-El - Burden Roushar - Trapilo, Newman Allen - Turner, Hyppolite Harris - Frazier Bienemy - Monangai

I think thats the right way to look at it. TE and WR might end up being core pieces though for a Ben Johnson offense. I imagine having only eaten simple home cooked food, if a chef came along, and i was thinking "he's gonna go get some fresh steaks" and instead he comes back with all kinds of things Ive never heard of like leeks and bay leaves. Im surprised. It's not what Im used to. It was outside the box for what i thought was important. But possibly Johnson knows something about offense that tells him Kmet is just not able to do what he needs to make it work. So the proof will be in the meal. Maybe it will be delicious and have flavors I've never even thought of before. Or maybe it's a smartest guy problem. We will see it on the field. But its possible Johnson wanted all those names we missed on, and Poles got played trying to wait for them, or trading back just a little too much.

DaWhizzard! Nice job!

Interesting take. Good thinking.

it does feel suspect. this year will show us on the field, and then we will know more. But Im not saying I know its all OK, just giving them the benefit of the doubt until I see it on the field.

When we switched to a 3-4 we knew we needed a different kind of NT. So maybe when we switched to Ben Johnson we needed a different kind of TE

I really did feel like that.

On the surface, yes. We all had conventional expectations for this draft, and it all went another way. I feel that Johnson is a very different kind of coach than we've had here, and we will be a very different kind of offense than we've ever had here. That makes all these picks feel strange. Maybe strange is good. Maybe this is what it feels like to be a team with a real offense. I dunno. Im ready to learn a new way of seeing things. It could be that, or it could be just bad picks. It definitely has felt like weve been 1, 2 or 3 picks too late at multiple stages of this draft. We will see it on the field. This could be very good, very bad, or mediocre. Im hoping Johnson knows what hes doing. But I don't put this draft on Poles as much as Johnson. It is definitely smartest guy int he room syndrome. But maybe Johnson IS the smartest guy. This season will be interesting for sure.

Certainly over the past decades, this has been correct for our Bears. Hopefully with a real coach and staff, this changes. It's not the building that's cursed, it's just been previously inhabited by incompetents. There is reason to hope that this will be different. But you left room for that in your comment. You said prove it for a couple years. That's fair, because all the flowery words mean nothing, until you see it on the field.