azbearsfan

So I guess the question is who is better? Shaffer or St Clair? Anyways good to get another tackle in there. Now it will be interesting to see if the move Omiyale back to guard. I think if they do, and still draft Britton and Duke then the line will be much improved. But I think this will allow us to go WR with one of the first two picks.

And you know what, I dont even know if I can say the position coaches were a problem as far as their drills and what they wanted the players to do. I think the real problem with the coaches was that they didn't hold the players accountable, especially in the press. In fact, that and player development were the two areas I wanted to see improvement. I saw enough of the player development (Orton, Beekman, Graham, Payne, Manning) but was disappointed in the accountability. And I dont think its Lovie's style to call people out like that. My only problem with Lovie has been that I thought he was coming in to be a tough love type of guy after Jauron's more "player's coach" approach. And I think he wanted to be, because if you remember when Lovie first came in, he tried to impliment tough off season stuff and mini camps but people started pulling their hammys especially Url. Then Url started groaning about it. So once that stuff gets started you either have to start making personnel changes or the coach goes (for example Coughlin, the team started going up once they started getting rid of some of the vets). The fans had Url's back, he was one of the best defenders in the league at that point, so clearly he wasn't going anywhere. I think Lovie changed his approach for survival's sake. Now he is back to toughening it up, probably knowing his butt is on the line. So we will see. Again, I think the vets have to know that some of their jobs are hitched to Lovie doing well.

I just meant better value in terms of more managable contracts, in general, not specific to this draft. The way this stuff is set up for rookies its really stressful to have a top 5 pick IMO. You can really screw yourself budget wise is you select a bust.

Well tons of guys lose the ball in the Super Bowl. And you know, I used to think that Mike Brown was this great leader too. But some things are starting to change that for me. First is the defenses lackadasical showing last year down the stretch with the playoffs on the line. There is no way a great leader lets his squad come out like that. Ed Reed, Ronnie Lott, Troy P, dont let their squads do that crap. Second, I dont think a great leader tries to beat the crap out of the #1 tailback in a half pads drill. To me that is playing politics so your buddy can have his job back, even though the head coach demoted him for a reason. So not only does that sort of crap hurt the running back it also can undermine the coaches' authority. Did Fred Miller deserve to have his jaw broken by our fearless Oline leader? This is the pros not high school. JMO

I also think you can take that one step further and apply it to the postion coaches, especially ones from college. Say they bring in some young college coaches to bring some energy and whatnot. Unless the vets help out with support, those guys will not be effective. The vets will say screw that, I know more than you, I am not buying in. For the most part, the younger players will follow what the vets are doing because if they dont, they will be singled out and get a "Benson special" or whatever. That is part of the reason why I think the defense will be so much better this year. They are out of scapegoats. There is no more Rex, running game sucks, college position coaches, babich at d coord. The fault will be with them. You have Marinelli, who is widely known as a great dline coach and who has developed Por Bowlers. So if Brown, Wale, Anderson, Harris, and the boys come out with half ass efforts and such then the spotlight will be on them and it will cost them their jobs and cash. And I dont think they want Lovie to fail as Dcoord because with a new coach, especially a Cowher, Chuckie, and Shanny, comes new personnel. JMO

You might be right. And I dont think I would be opposed for two reasons. 1) First, the value is better at the end of the 1st/beginning of the second. So if you get a bust it is not costing as much. 2) Second, I think JA is better drafting out of the first round. JMO

I said Forte was better.

And that is the thing as well, the "leadership" area is severly lacking. I dont think that the defensive vets really "help" the younger guys because it puts their own job at risk. I think a lesser example was Brown being demoted for Anderson. Url and the boys were not happy with that.

Well I disagree with that. When he was splitting time with TJ, he looked great. Good burst, running people over. Then he got hurt. Then the next year when he was the #1 behind a crap line. The video I am talking about was one in preseason of some half pad drills. Benson was going through and Url and Brown were just trying to kill him. I believe they actually hurt his shoulder and I debated at the time why you would do that to the #1 back and how that was hurting the team.

He was knocked by fans for a low YPC but that was more the crap oline at the time. In fact, I dont think Forte's YPC was much better last year. He was knocked by fans because he wasn't TJ. As far as the defense in practice was concerned, they weren't hitting him harder and late because they were trying to toughen him up, the defense was trying to send the coaching staff a lesson on promoting someone over their "friend" TJ. Benson was an easy target cause he was a jerk and noone liked him. But I saw the youtube of that crap, and it was bs. And if your criteria for the fans getting a raw deal is coming in unprepared, out of shape, and taking millions then Benson is definitly not the only name on that list. Again, not saying that I am sad that he is not with us, cause I love Forte, but he wasn't nearly as bad as people mad him out to be.

Good call. Even though he is a moron, I always felt he got kind of a raw deal here. The rest of the team was mad cause they loved TJ so kind of got the brunt of that. That Minny/Chi game where AP killed us was on NFLnetwork the other day so I was watching it thinking that Benson was running well. Greise was brutal that game though. Oh well. We got someone better holding down the Forte now.

The only thing I dont like about him is he seems to drop alot of balls. Man I hate that.

Makes sense then on Clabo. Still dont think it would be enough to get Boldin.

Interesting...and I think maybe you get Cutler for that, but i dont know if you get the other two for second rounders.

Wouldn't be opposed to it if they just wanted the draft pick straight up. But we would absolutly have to go OL with the second rounder. Hopefully we will get a 3rd for Berrian because I think you would have to go OL again in the third. We shall see.

Well, thanks for the input Mad. It wouldn't be a Bearstalk thread if you did post somewhere in it. As for this, the intent wasn't to question loyalty, that sentiment was just drama cooked up by nfo. The point was that this is just like every other thread that complains about: the Turner sucks, Lovie sucks, JA sucks, we didn't go sign all the pro bowlers out there, we are doomed, etc. If you notice, I did say that there was no offense intended towards Grouchy, as I have a ton of respect for him. Its actually disappointing that such an old school guy from the boards would come out of the gate saying he had nothing to look forward to this season. I tried to give examples of what I was looking forward to. So if you guys want to make it the big drama of "questioning the loyalty" or whatever, then that is on you. I do agree with nfo that I will let this die from here on out. My stance on this has been noted.

lol. This comes as no surprise to me. That guy has always seemed like a tool off the field.

I would like this draft. I like Britton the more I learn about him. I would sub in Robiskie. I just have a good feeling about him. I really like the draft Jason has in his sig.

Sorry dude. You dont like it, dont read it. Go ahead and get ticked off. I'll question whatever I choose. And if you want to make sh*t up like I am a yes man and dont question things then dont respond to me anymore. Putting words into peoples mouth is the same old stuff from you. I choose to look at things in a positive way. And if the things I look forward to makes you say F off, then so be it. And dont say you question neither, when you just did.

No offense man, but come on. What was your prediction last year? How many games did you think we would win? In 95% of predictions, we exceeded expectations. And this offseason you thought we were going to pick up all these pro bowl linemen and safeties, so now you are sad. Did you mistake us for the Redskins? Sorry, and I'm not just saying this to you, but how many threads do we need to say the same thing? If you are tired of defending the Bears then don't. They is plenty of room on the bandwagon in Pittsburgh. I will support the Bears now matter what. I will look forward to Bullocks and Earl the return to good form. I will look forward to Bennett making tough catches. I will look forward to Chris Williams having Orton's back. I will look forward to Marinelli to light a fire under the DL asses. I will look forward to returning to a defense that creates turnovers and scores. I will look forward to Matt Forte carving up defenses. I will look forward to Hester and Olsen getting the ball from Orton and getting in the endzone. And I will look forward to seeing our new draft picks coming in and trying to help. You should choose to do the same.

lol. You read my mind here. Come on brad. Very good back up???? Every time he went in he got booed. Now all of a sudden Rex is worth something. Sorry I dont buy that at all. We lost a SS who was playing FS. A guy whose coverage skills were terrible last year. Whose leadership was disappointing last year. And a safety who couldn't stay healthy. And that is from a Mike Brown fan. Its funny how popular players are held on a pedestal in Chicago, but that is a prime example of it. And the WR's??? Lloyd was looking good for the first couple of games and then wasn't a factor all year. And Booker was a joke. Its funny because all these people were wanting Bennett to play and now that the plan, but you want to lament the loss of a couple of crapbags. And as for the line....we replace our LT who was one of the worst players in pass protection in the league and our RT who was absolutely manhandled, with our 1st round pick last year and Omiyale. So in my mind, at worst it is a push. We are also pretty much sure to see OL and WR be the focus of the draft. Remember this is a 9 win team. So with the coaching changes on defense and the growth on offense, even if we stay put, I think we will see an improvement. It just that some guys need to step away from the ledge.

I am on the fence on this one. My worry is that Cutler can be prone to bad games and as we know our fan base can be ridiculously harsh on such things. Can you imagine: Good Jay/Bad Jay???

haha. Yeah. "Can't win with him" that press conference was priceless

Shoring up the line actually helps the passing game.

Its all good man