Lucky Luciano

the packers were on the *3 yard line. bowman is man out on the qb's left and is set just about on the goal line (three yards off the LOS). at the snap the receiver runs directly at bowman who takes a step or two back as he reacts. at this point the receiver breaks right to the inside (left on another TD series) just on or inside the goal line with bowman BEHIND him. easy uncontested touchdown that took only 2 or 3 seconds to complete from the snap. how this play SHOULD have been defended: bowman plays up on the LOS. at the snap he jams the wide receiver disrupting the timing of the play. after the jam he has to let the receiver by him and then trail him the rest of the way through his route. also by jamming him it should give the safeties time to react as to whether it will be a pass or run play and shift to help a corner in pass protection especially if the TE is covered. the safety plays deeper (unless he is in position to jump the route) and the corner plays in front. there is no "double teaming" the receiver at all pre-snap. if it is defended like we did, without any doubt it will be an easy touchdown OR defensive pass interference from the corner reaching over or holding the receiver to bust up the play. there is just no other way to stop that throw from the qb without the defender being in front of his man... ever. the fact that they ran this same play in exactly the same way THREE? times is inexcusable for our defensive coaches NOT to have understood this and left bowman on an island that did/will not ever work in that set. *this is all from memory as i have no way to watch the film replay of those plays so if it is incorrect someone state the lineup and how it unfolded.

i have to disagree. they wouldn't have been beaten 10 times on that goal line defensive scheme, they would have been beaten us a thousand times in a row. the only question was which way was the receiver would break, left or right, to catch the touchdown pass. you would have thought after seeing it the first time our coaching staff would have countered it by having bowman jam him at the LOS. but after THREE or FOUR times the same stupid play??? this is a testament to how really poor our coaches are. it was undefendable the way our coaching staff set bowman up. it is absolutely impossible to defend even if it would have been charles woodson in his prime unless maybe they thought bowman was really reed richards in disguise? no wonder the packers were laughing at us.

i would STRONGLY go for a high quality guard in this draft. a first day pick. we also NEED to draft a very good prospect at center!!

"Those who can go" - in order of importance: 1. PRESIDENT ted phillips - as president of football operations, i defy anyone to list his accomplishments that would come even close to retaining him in that stature. he is the biggest detriment to this franchise beside bad owners (who i would list first if i thought it were even romotely feasible they could be gone). if we had a real president of operations we would have been shed of angelo, lovie and all of his assistants years ago and probably most, if not all, of our college scouting department. as it stands phillips would not have a CLUE who to hire to replace angelo without going through the fiasco he did last time finding this organization a GM. so unless he hired another failure in tim ruskell there is no relief on the horizen i can see. 2. GM jerry angelo - should have been fired 4-6 years ago. he has failed completely to perform the most important aspects of a GM which is drafting talent for our roster and choosing a head coach and assistants to coach them. the only reason he could possibly have retained his job so long is because of complete incompetence by the owners and president of football operations. 3. **COACH lovie smith - a coach with limited abilities who is stubborn and arrogant who is a poor judge of assistant talent and if he has had any input in the draft, a poor judge of college draft prospectives also. his system of defense is antiquated and his ability to adjust it to the present and future nfl is poor at best. he has limited the quality and capabilities of any assistant coaches by this system with no real possibilities in the future of competent coaches coming to chicago. his abilities to coach draft picks and make them better at anything is highly suspect. 4. ASSISTANT COACHES - should be launched with the head coach with few exceptions. if lovie stays then the pool of any quality assistant coaches is so limited that i don't even see a replacement in the coaching ranks unless it is someone looking for their first job in the NFL. any new candidates would have only 2 years or LESS before lovie's undeserved contract extension expires. many have called for OC martz's firing. before this happens there has to be a real candidate to replace him. who is going to jump into this continual *head-coach-lame-duck scenario that has any chance of real success given the lack of offensive talent on this roster? it is even a worse scenario to fire DC marinelli. so just to replace martz or marinelli without any real upgrade at these positions due to our GM and HC’s poor status in chicago in my opinion would be counterproductive. 5. PLAYERS TO CUT - agree with others on: roy williams. just not consistent enough to justify a roster spot. frank ohmy. maybe the worst offensive lineman to play in the NFL. never should have come here at that price in the first place. caleb hanie. i was wrong, he is just not good enough or consistent enough to play in the NFL at this time. who I do not agree on: webb – many want to cut him this offseason. i do not, at least at this point. this does NOT mean we should retain him to be our LT. that said, he could perform the role of swing tackle similar to what st. claire was at the time at least until we draft or find better prospects (as if that will ever happen with the clowns running this sideshow). we desperately need depth on the OL. our top priority should be to draft a high quality LT even if we have to move up in the draft to do so. jennings – the same goes for him. if we cut him without a QUALITY replacement being drafted or acquired through free agency we will end up with who? bowman? graham? according to our coaching staff jennings is better than both. so either they are wrong (it wouldn’t be that big of a surprise) or both of these players have peaked out talent wise and at best are average DEPTH players. and yet again our poor drafting has neglected a key component to a defenses stability. barber – strongly disagree on releasing him. a very solid back that gets the short yardage. hopefully these mental mistakes are a fluke and our coaching staff can actually coach him to become better (another stretch i suppose) and keep his head on straight. ====================================================================== **"By Jeff Dickerson ESPNChicago.com ””I feel very comfortable having three years on my contract. It's plenty of time," Smith said. "I feel comfortable having all of us being connected together as far as the length of our contract. Again, I'm excited. It's exactly what I wanted." Angelo said one of the positives of an extension for Smith is consistency in the organization.” http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=6157599 this was from an article from last feb-2011. in my opinion it just exemplifies the poor management we have. ted phillips should be slapped silly for this extension when AGAIN it was not necessary to do so and leaves us with a lame-duck coach like last time. EDIT: "three years" on his contract is "plenty of time"??? plenty of time for what? you have already have had EIGHT FRIGGIN YEARS lovie!!!!!!!!! and what else does anyone think that our idiot gm would say? certainly not the main thought that it ‘keeps him out of the unemployment office’. and “consistency in the organization”? yea consistently bad!!

i really did not want to get into FA trades and such here which is food for a different thread. but as you brought it up... 1. over the 9 years we have been discussing, 2002-2010, the normal amount of picks for any team in the first three rounds comes out to 27 picks. jerry angelo had 26 picks in rounds 1-3. A) jerry angelo has had 7 first round picks during this period as opposed to 9 which would have been normal even after the cutler deal and trading out in 2006. jerry angelo had 7 second round picks out of 9 even after he squandered a 2nd round pick on a DE who was riding the pine, adams, and he traded out of the 2nd round in 2002 C) jerry angelo had 12 third round picks out of 9. 2. if jerry angelo was a good judge of offensive talent would we have had to give up 2 first rounders for a quarterback in the first place?

this i do agree with and we have seen this numerous times in chicago. one problem seems 'possible' to me with the lovie and even jauron era is that whomever they like in practice whether he plays the same (as well) in game situations is the continual penciled in starter. it's like they have blinders on. with all that said, i still believe there are a reason FOR THE MOST PART, that players are drafted higher than others. there are always the exceptions to the rule like jay hilgenberg but generally the orlando paces and walter jones of the world are drafted where they are for a reason.

thanks for the comment. 1. all of the quality players i listed, including the bears, were not necessarily picked for the pro-bowl or voted in as all-pro during the listed superbowl year. it was spanning their total careers up to 2010. note: also, my personal belief is that if they were picked for those honors they at least had to be a quality player for those one or more seasons whether someone else or not deserved to go before them. thus it is the only reasonable yardsticks i know of to judge upper echelon talent in the NFL as i certainly can't watch every player or every game performed. 2. during jerry angelo's tenure in chicago he has drafted 26 players in rounds '1 through 3' over a nine year period (i did not count the 2011 draft). during those nine years only TWO players he drafted were good enough to go to the pro-bowl or be considered all-pro players. over that period of time. tommy harris (drafted 2004) and lance briggs (drafted 2003) are the ONLY players to do so between 2002 and the present. angelo's combined NINE YEAR **score = 2 or 9% - (the percentages are calculated for example, 2 against the combined 22 starters on offense and defense). 2. superbowl teams 'first day' draft picks that have gone to a pro-bowl or voted all-pro vs. angelo's, rounds 1 through 3 picks over the last nine years: 2002 bucs = 5 or 23% 2002 raiders = 2 or 9% 2003 patriots = 6 or 27% 2003 panthers = 7 or 32% 2004 patriots = 6 or 27% 2004 eagles = 7 or 32% 2005 steelers = 9 or 41% 2005 seahawks = 6 or 27% 2006 colts = 7 or 32% 2006 bears (jerry angelo's picks) = 2 or 9% 2007 giants = 6 or 27% 2007 patriots = 5 or 23% 2008 steelers = 7 or 32% 2008 cardinals = 6 or 27% 2009 saints = 3 or 14% 2009 colts = 5 or 23% 2010 packers = 5 or 23% 2010 steelers = 7 or 32% 3. this data was not necessarily intended as conclusive evidence on it's own to determine whether jerry angelo is a good GM or not. it is just one tool to help compare the qualities of his drafts to the best teams in the NFL during the period of time he has been in chicago. if you feel as i do that drafting quality players in rounds 1-3 is paramount to the health of your franchise this data should help in making an educated decision on how he has done. **what does this mean? that of the starting roster on offense and defense, 22 players, only 2 players of 26 picked by jerry angelo in the first day of the draft have been considered high quality players and gone to a pro-bowl or voted all-pro. that comes to approximately 9% of the starting roster of 22 players. that to me is a pretty poor percentage rate compared to the rest of the superbowl teams.

well professor zippy, you see, the whole point of all the information i posted was how jerry angelo's draft picks compared to other teams draftpicks that were good enough to make it to a SUPERBOWL. i know this is an extremely complicated scenario for you to grasp but i really don't care what the other 30 teams that FAILED to even reach the superbowl did each year. is that complete enough for you? what statistics you "think" are useless carries as much weight and importance in the world as the sunday paper comic strips. you ask... "How many All-pro players are there per year?" who gives a sh!%? i listed the ones that mattered - to compare these types of quality players on superbowl teams to OUR team. and this?... "The same goes for Pro-bowls." "it's tough to take seriously an accolade that is 1/3 voted by fans, and 2/3 by players and coaches". well maybe, LT3, you should inform the NFL of this so they can call you to get the names for pro-bowl players that really deserve to be there. i'm sure it would save them a lot of paperwork. and special team players?... "You don't count special team players (I'm guessing because it doesn't support your point)". a 'guess' from such an analytical genius like yourself? i'm shocked!! so why don't you get off your lazy azz and look them up yourself and dispute it with FACTS before you whine like a little girl about it? just to save you some time looking up stats (that you probably wouldn't have done anyway) i left out special team players because to 'me' it just plain doesn't matter that much how a GM drafts players for special teams. it is UNIMPORTANT to the general core of STARTING players on offense and defense that relate to your franchises health. first of all, see above... who gives a sh!%? second of all... why don't YOU show the hard statistics and irrefutable data YOU used to determine that tripe? third of all, see above... again, why don't you inform the NFL that their methods of determining pro-bowl/all-pro players is "piss poor" and just have them call you to determine which players really deserve to be considered all-pro and which deserve to be in the pro-bowl. "Which sounds about right since only 2 teams make the SB each year." i already know the obvious so just enlighten me with the incredibly obvious. you think the odds are rare that a superbowl team doesn't make the playoffs for 3 straight years post superbowl? hmmmm... isn't that what i inferred? that it is rare. that it is not a good statistic to have? that it probably means the team in question may have some serious personnel quality problems? oh yea, that's right, there is not enough data to make a significant determination. 20-30 years just isn't enough time. well how much time do you need to reach your conclusions? three to four centuries? longer? yet YOU determine it was attributed to "Lovie hiring "his guys""? where is the hard data that supports this? oh that's right, it's just your OPINION that has no statistical fact or data to support it, right??? it boils down to this zippy pinhead... 1. i assume that you are admitting you didn't know what you were talking about and your "observational skills" didn't seem to be up to your own high standards when you stated " I do have to question your observational skills if you think that at any point Marcus Harrison was a starter in 2010" in your previous post? fact: he was a first day pick and he was a starter in 2009 like i stated whether it was for 1 game or a million!!! 2. "The usage of the time sensitive descriptors of "This season" and "our previous starting RDT" implies that we got rid of a recently valuable player, blah, blah, blah". really? a genius such as yourself can't comprehend such simple straightforward statements of fact and how to interpret them? where else but in your own mind have i stated that m. harrison was or is a VALUABLE starting player? in FACT it emphasizes the points i was making that he WASN'T a "valuable player". and while i'm at it, what in the hell does accolades for tommy harris have to do with anything at all? he was a first day pick and was released by this franchise. a simple fact i stated with accurate consistency. it appears your "observational skills" haven't improved any after your previous post. 3. although this may be redundant hopefully it finally sinks in as to the intent of this thread... the main point of my post was to show the importance of successful teams (superbowl teams specifically) drafting well and especially in the first three rounds of the draft compared to what our GM has done. a comparison of what jerry angelo's first day draft picks look like in quality and quantity compared to SUPERBOWL teams. THAT was the reason i listed the players who at least one time in their careers were good enough to have been recognized by everyone in the world but YOU as a quality player. the fewer 'quality' first day pick players the worse your drafts are and in my opinion the less chances you have of superbowl appearances or winning it if you get there. i also made the point that comparisons to the other jerry angelo first-day-pick players who DIDN'T make the pro-bowl/all-pro squads could and should be evaluated and compared to players from other superbowl teams (non PB/AP first day picks) specifically during ANGELO'S tenure. it's really not that difficult to understand. although i am sure you probably disagree but to me superbowl teams are the ultimate yardstick of where i want this franchise to be. NOT part of the other 30 teams in the NFL having good or bad seasons, just making the playoffs, or even losing superbowls, because in the end that doesn't mean jack sh!%. it's all about winning it all!! in other words, i wanted to compare the best every year to us, simple as that. finally... if you really need me to dumb it down more for you just let me know.

thanks. i hope it is useful, it was a lot of work.

hester never went to a pro-bowl or voted all-pro because of his defensive back skills or receiving skills. it was solely as a a special teams player to my knowledge. in this post i did not list any special team players in the statistics as starters.

i just don't see webb at this point other than a below average LT. the holding penalties, false starts certainly count in the evaluation of any offensive lineman the same as the missed asignments and missed blocks. plus how is the run blocking on the left side of the line? doesn't that count a lot also in tackle evaluation? what tools are you talking about that isn't listed on nearly every draft evaluation of players ever produced? doesn't frank ohmy have those same tools? sporatic good games do not make a solid consistant player. could he develop? sure, but do you really want to bet the farm on him and risk injury to your franchise QB gambling he will get better over the next 2-3 years without any alternate plan in effect? the players we are fielding... LT - an undrafted walk-on, LG - a first round pick at tackle who couldn't cut it there, C - an aging free agent who never played center before in the NFL, RG - a free agent who was released by his former team where HE played center, RT - a 7th round draft pick who was listed as a guard and has played inconsistently at tackle. to me there is a very good reason players are drafted in the rounds they are and that is mental and physical talent and experience in college against the best competition (i know there are always exceptions to the rule). could webb, c. williams, and l. louis turn into exceptional players? yes. but with the little experience we have watched so far it is NOT a safe bet any of them will be other than average/good backups. as far as drafting other players and benching the current starters: i never said that. what i did say is draft good potential talent (higher round draft picks) and let them really compete in training camp. if the rookies are not up to it yet then let them sit and learn while starting the BEST player at that position. as far as url and pepperman, these guys have a closing window on their talents. do we want to ignore the health of this franchises future to start mediocre players at a super important position and risk the health of a player who is the franchise ticket for the next 8-10 years? absolutely not. i have no idea where stats like those could be found and if anybody can please post them for us all. the only thing i can do is observe what is happening on the field every gameday. to me i am seeing webb miss assignments that caused not only hanie problems but caused cutler to have to scramble to avoid pressure or just plain get racked. this even with TE or FB help to block on that side there have been problems. can i tell you specifically which play or even game? no. i have no way to watch any film or replay other than what is broadcast at the time. it is happening all over the offensive line. on one play they push in the left side, the next the right, and if that is not bad enough they come up the middle. every time? no, but enough that no QB can feel comfort back there for more than a heartbeat. one more comment... the holding plays are generally what happens when you get beat as an offensive lineman. so to me nearly every holding call could have just as easily been a recorded sack.

of course some coaching issues would apply in some instances but does player quality mean nothing to you? compare 'most' of the first day pick rosters against ours and the number and quality of players that are on their roster compared to ours. to me it is pretty telling. this doesn't even take into account the number of 1st day pick pro-bowl/all-pro players each team is sporting and comparing that to jerry angelo's draft picks which are TWO throughout the rosters from 2005 onward. NOT someone else in our organization who drafted urlacher, kreutz and mike brown. so don't you think 4 years is long enough for angelo's draft picks to develop? if not then look at the number of first day picks that were all-pro/pro-bowl players up to present on our roster. the only team that equals us is the freaking oakland raiders with 'two' all-pro/pro-bowl players (the same as angelo's picks) on their roster and then look at their following 8 year records in the nfl. for that matter look at ours. other than the raiders, i believe we are one of 3 teams in the last 20-30+ years that never even made the playoffs for 3 straight years after a superbowl appearance. hmmm... doesn't GS in NFL statistical data mean the number of games started for that player in a season? if not i guess i 'could' be wrong. but if GS does mean 'games started' maybe you should try your own "observational skills" on the links below and by all means let me know how i did (unless you don't believe their credibility or conclusions either). NFL official website: http://www.nfl.com/player/marcusharrison/2348/profile PRO-FOOTBALL-REFERENCE: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrMa98.htm EDIT NOTE: i never said m. harrison was a starter in 2010. i said in - 2009 - talk about observational skills

in my opinion we are again hoping that a player who had 4-5 'good' games not even playing guard is going to turn into an elite player over the next 10 years (not even mentioning if chris williams will do the same). add to this factor that garza is an average, at best, center who is aging and we SHOULD have drafted kreutz/garza's replacement 2 years ago. it is just too risky to not draft high to find good+ offensive linemen who will keep cutler off the IR.

"no way" the bronco's can win in 16 seconds? didn't i just give you an example of losing a game to the falcons with ELEVEN SECONDS on the clock in atlanta and not in denver where the field goal kickers are hitting at well over 50 yards? also i was talking about hanie killing the clock not barber. with as much time as was on the clock when we literally gave them the touchdown if we had played the type of defense we had all game we should have been able to kill a hell of a lot more time than it took them to score instead of hoping hanie could play out a first down in the following series.

to me the key word in your paragraph is this... "played fairly well". this seems to be the problem this franchise has had for 10+ years and quite frankly is the reason we have poor quality players at key positions and no depth or players on our roster to replace them. that problem to me is the mentality of not drafting a potentially better/high quality player who may not start or contribute immediately (believe me i do understand the concept of todays salary cap and free agent restrictions in this regard). quarterbacks and offensive linemen are the prime examples of you having to draft players that will/may take time to develop on your roster rather than throwing them into the fire so to speak unless you have the luxury of already having a developed, very good, offensive line that you only need to plug one player into as a starter and can compensate for with veteran experienced players playing next to him or around him (like a good blocking fullback or tight ends). players that are playing "fairly well" at this position can and will contribute to ending the career of your franchise quarterback (or even your running back if he is taking a pounding hitting non-existent holes in the line week after week). is this risk really worth it? yet this franchise always looks at the poor, or at best average, player that may play better than a rookie SHORT TERM and make their decisions based upon that. ever wonder why we usually need to replace MULTIPLE linemen all at once? it is because we never plan ahead as to age or quality and end up having to hope to hell we can draft 3 or 4 offensive linemen in one draft that are worth a dam or find yet another aging free agent. it just does not work that way usually. you need to keep looking at the future in these particular instances and draft quality players over a period of years. here is an example: let us say webb does turn into an average LT. do you not want to upgrade that to an excellent, all-pro type of player? i sure do. this holds true to every position on the line. let's say you do find 2 young studs at the same position. wouldn't you like to be able to trade one for some real compensation to another team and keep your best player in chicago? i have to ask... what is a 'fair' amount of sacks you want your franchise quarterback to absorb from the play of a questionable player and in this case from your qb's blindside? to me that is insane to risk the health of the rarest and hardest to find player on your roster. it took us how many decades and wasted draft picks to find a franchise qb? why risk the health of this franchise to go the cheap route and hope for the best from an iffy player? if we draft a high potential player to play LT (or any line position for that matter) and webb/others still outperforms him then so be it. let webb start until he is either in the elite category or draft another to push him/them out.

along with the packers you can put the steelers in that category. their drafting has been excellent over the years and in my opinion due in large part to very smart football people running and in their franchise.

i have compiled this information to illustrate the importance of drafting well and particularly drafting well in rounds 1-3 if you want to participate in a superbowl. also, i believe the quality of those draft picks is PARAMOUNT to the health and competiveness of your team yet if you look at the bears roster, the number of quality players drafted in these rounds by jerry angelo is exceptionally poor. below are listed all superbowl participents since jerry angelo became GM and participated in the bears draft choices below. I have also listed below all of the bear rosters to date for comparrison. feel free to copy this information for future references if you wish. 2002 tampa bay - superbowl champs 11 starters drafted 8 first day picks – *FB mike alstott, RG cosey coleman, RT kenyatta walker, LDT ‘booger’ mcfarland, *RDT warren sapp, *RLB derrick brooks, LCB brian kelly, *RCB ronde barber, *SS john lynch. 5 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. oakland - losers 10 starters drafted 9 first day picks – WR jerry porter, LG mo collins, LG matt stinchcomb, *C barret robbins, LDE delawrence grant, RDE tony bryant, MLB napoleon harris, *LCB charles woodson, SS derrick gibson. 2 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2003 new england - superbowl champs 16 starters drafted 11 first day picks – RB kevin faulk, WR deion branch, WR bethel johnson, TE daniel graham, *LT matt light, *LG damien woody, *RDT richard seymour, *RDE willie mcginest, *MLB tedy bruschi, *LCB ty law, FS eugene wilson. 6 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. carolina panthers - losers 11 starters drafted 10 first day picks – *WR muhsin muhammad, *WR steve smith, TE mike seidman, *RT jordan gross, *LDE julius peppers, *RDT kris jenkins, *RDT mike rucker, *MLB dan morgan, RLB will witherspoon, LCB ricky manning, SS mike minter, FS deon grant. 7 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2004 new england - superbowl champs 15 starters drafted 11 first day picks - WR deion branch, TE daniel graham, *LT matt light, LDE ty warren, *NT vince wilfork, *RDE richard seymour, *LOLB willie mcginest, LILB ted johnson, *MLB tedy bruschi, *LCB ty law, FS eugene wilson. 6 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. eagles - losers 14 starters drafted 14 first day picks - *QB donovan mcnabb, *RB brian westbrook, WR freddie mitchell, WR tod pinkston, TE l.j. smith, *LT tra thomas, RG jermane mayberry, LDT corey simon, RDE derrick burgess, *MLB jeremiah trotter, *LCB lito sheppard, RCB sheldon brown, *SS michael lewis, *FS brian dawkins. 7 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2005 steelers - superbowl champs 18 starters drafted 12 first day picks – *QB ben roethlisberger, WR antwaan randle el, *WR hines ward, *TE heath miller, *LT marvel smith, *LG alen faneca, RG kendall simmons, RT max starks, *NT casey hampton, *ROLB joey porter, *SS troy polamalu, *FS chris hope. 9 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. seahawks - losers 14 starters drafted 12 first day picks - *RB shaun alexander, WR darrell jackson, TE jerramy stevens, *LT walter jones, *LG steve huchinson, RT sean locklear, RDT marcus tubbs, LOLB leroy hill, *MLB lofa tatupu, *RCB marcus trufant, SS michael boulware, *FS ken hamlin. 6 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2006 colts - superbowl champs 17 starters drafted 10 first day picks - *QB peyton manning, *RB joseph addai, *WR marvin harrison, *WR reggie wayne, *TE dallas clark, *LT tarik glenn, *RDE dwight freeney, LLB gilbert gardner, LLB rob morris, FS marlin jackson. 7 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. bears - LOSERS 16 bear drafted starters 11 first day picks – QB rex grossman, RB cedric benson, WR bernard berrian, *C olin kreutz, *LDT tommy harris, RDT tank johnson, *MLB brian urlacher, *RLB lance briggs, CB charles tillman, *SS mike brown, FS danieal manning. 5 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. jerry angelo drafted two of them. ***SEE BELOW… 2007 giants - superbowl champs 15 starters drafted 9 first day picks – *QB eli manning (swap 1st picks), WR amani toomer, *TE jeremy shockey, *RG chris snee, *LDE michael strahan, *RDE osi umenyiora, LLB mathias kiwanuka, LCB aron ross, *RCB sam madison. 6 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. patriots - losers 18 starters drafted 12 first day picks – RB kevin faulk, RB laurence maroney, TE ben watson, *LT matt light, *LG logan mankins, RT nick kaczur, LDE ty warren, *NT vince wilfork, *RDE richard seymour, *RILB tedy bruschi, RCB ellis hobbs, FS eugene wilson. 5 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2008 steelers - superbowl champs 17 starters drafted 11 first day picks – *QB ben roethelisberger, WR santonio holmes, *WR hines ward, *TE heath miller, TE matt spaeth, LT max starks, *LT marvel smith, *NT casey hampton, *LOLB lamarr woodley, RCB bryant mcfadden, *SS troy polamalu. 7 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. cardinals - losers 16 starters drafted 12 first day picks - *WR anquan boldin, *WR larry fitzgerald, TE leonard pope, RG deuce lutui, RT levi brown, *RDT darnell dockett, MLB gerald hayes, RLB karlos dansby, *RCB dominique cromartie, RCB eric green, *SS adrian wilson, *FS antrel rolle. 6 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2009 saints - superbowl champs 14 starters drafted 10 first day picks – RB reggie bush, WR devery henderson, WR robert meachem, *RT jon stinchcomb, LDE charles grant, RDT sedrick ellis, *RDE will smith, RCB tracy porter, RCB malcolm jenkins, *SS roman harper. 3 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. colts - losers 18 starters drafted 10 first day picks - *QB peyton manning, *RB joseph addai, *WR reggie wayne, *TE dallas clark, RG mike pollak, *RDE dwight freeney, LLB philip wheeler, LCB kelvin hayden, LCB tim jennings, RCB jerraud powers. 5 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. 2010 packers - superbowl champs 17 starters drafted 11 first day picks – *QB aaron rodgers, RB brandon jackson, *WR greg jennings, TE jermichael finley, *LT chad clifton, LG daryn colledge, RT bryan bulaga, NT b. j. raji, *LOLB clay matthews, LILB a. j. hawk, *FS nick collins. 5 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. steelers - losers 20 starters drafted 15 first day picks - *QB ben roethlisberger, RB rashard mendenhall, WR mike wallace, *WR hines ward, *TE heath miller, TE matt spaeth, LT max starks, *C maurkice pouncey, RG trai essex, LDE evander hood, *NT casey hampton, *LOLB lamarr woodley, RILB lawrence timmons, LCB bryant mcfadden, *SS troy polamalu. 7 *pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. ================================================================ bears 2001 roster angelo inherited 14 starters drafted by bears – 10 first day picks - anthony thomas, marty booker, dez white, david terrell, rex tucker, olin kreutz, brian urlacher, walt harris, tony parrish, mike brown. remaining bear starters drafted by bears (second day picks) – G chris villarrial, LLB rosey colvin, RLB warrick holdman, CB jerry azumah. starting free agents/undrafted – QB jim miller, RT big cat williams, FB daimon shelton, TE fred baxter, TE john davis, LT blake brockermeyer, LDT ted washington, RDT keith traylor, LDE bryon robinson, RDE phillip daniels, RCB r.w. mcquarters. =========================================================== after 4 years of drafts this is what angelo’s first day draft picks looked like… bears 2005 roster: 13 starters drafted by bears 7 first day pick starters - *C olin kreutz, RG terrence metcalf, *RDT tommy harris, *MLB brian urlacher, *RLB lance briggs, LCB charles tillman, *SS mike brown. angelo’s FOUR 1st day pick starters: terrence metcalf, *tommy harris (2004), *lance briggs (2003), charles tillman (2003). 2 pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. ***2006 – superbowl season 16 starters drafted by bears 11 first day pick starters – QB rex grossman, RB cedric benson, WR bernard berrian, *C olin kreutz, *LDT tommy harris, RDT tank johnson, *MLB brian urlacher, *RLB lance briggs, LCB charles tillman, *SS mike brown, FS danieal manning. angelo’s eight 1st day pick starters: rex grossman, cedric benson, bernard berrian, *tommy harris, tank johnson, *lance briggs, charles tillman, danieal manning. 2 pro-bowl/all-pro player starters during their careers. ALL devin hester pro-bowl/all-pro appearances due to special teams. bears 2007 roster: 13 starters drafted by bears 7 first day pick starters – FS danieal manning, LCB charles tillman, *RLB lance briggs, *MLB brian urlacher, *RDT tommy harris, *C olin kreutz, LG terrence metcalf, WR bernard berrian, RB cedric benson, QB rex grossman. angelo’s eight 1st day pick starters: rex grossman, cedric benson, bernard barrian, terrence metcalf, *tommy harris, *lance briggs, charles tillman, daniel manning. 2 pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. bears 2008 roster: 17 bear drafted starters 11 first day pick starters - *FS mike brown, LCB charles tillman, *RLB lance briggs, *MLB brian urlacher, *RDT tommy harris, NT dusty dvoracek, *C olin kreutz, TE greg olsen, *WR marty booker, WR devin hester, RB matt forte. angelo’s eight 1st day pick starters: RB matt forte, WR devin hester, TE greg olsen, NT dusty dvoracek, *RDT tommy harris, *RLB lance briggs, LCB charles tillman, FS daniel manning. 2 * pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. by this time we got rid of these angelo first day pick starters…benson our starting running back, berrian our #1 receiver, tank johnson our starting LDT. bears 2009 roster: 16 bear drafted starters 11 first day pick starters – RB matt forte, WR earl bennet, WR devin hester, TE greg olsen, LT/RT chris williams, *C olin kreutz, *LDT tommy harris, RDT marcus harrison, *LLB lance brigs, LCB charles tillman, FS danieal manning. angelo’s ten 1st day pick starters: RB matt forte, WR devin hester, WR earl bennet, TE greg olsen, LT/RT chris williams, *LDT tommy harris, RDT marcus harrison, *LLB lance briggs, LCB charles tillman, FS daniel manning. 2 * pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. by this time we got rid of these angelo first day pick starters… rex grossman our starting QB, dusty dvoracek our previous starting NT, terrence metcalf our previous starting LG. bears 2010 roster: 12 bear drafted starters 10 first day pick starters – RB matt forte, WR devin hester, TE greg olsen, LG chris williams, *C olin kreutz, *LDT tommie harris, *LLB lance briggs, *MLB brian urlacher, RCB charles tillman, SS danieal manning. angelo’s eight 1st day pick starters: RB matt forte, WR devin hester, TE greg olsen, LG chris williams, *LDT tommy harris, *LLB lance briggs, RCB charles tillman, SS danieal manning. 2 * pro-bowl/all-pro players during their careers. bears 2011 roster: this season we got rid of these angelo first day pick starters… greg olsen our starting TE, marcus harrison our previous starting RDT, danieal manning our starting SS. TAKE NOTE: during angelo’s tenure the two pro-bowl/all-pro players he drafted in rounds 1-3 were tommy harris and lance briggs. that is it!! also compare the actual quality of the players he drafted in rounds 1-3 (first day picks) to other superbowl teams. it is amazing to me this guy is still employed anywhere in the NFL in the capacity of a GM when you look at his record.

sorry but i have to disagree. although barber made two glaring errors it NEVER should have come down to that type of situation in the first place. the coaching staff to me gets just as much if not more blame as barber. this is not like some fluke that this cover 2 run by lovie has failed miserably and this time it has failed us right out of the playoffs. how can it be any surprise that when your corners and safeties play so far off the LOS they are beyond the first down markers and STILL backpeddling that they will give up a lot of yards, first downs and scores in a very short period of time? it's like being on the practice field for any QB to have receivers that wide open. even bad ones like t-bow. to go into this soft of a pass defense with that much time on the clock, when you have seen place kickers hitting easily over 50 yards because you are in denver, your defensive line is plain TIRED and it shows, and you have a 2nd string QB who has not moved the ball in 3.8 quarters enough to trust him to KILL the clock is just plain poor coaching. as far as denver getting the ball with 16 seconds left instead of 56... anybody at all remember the game against the freaking atlanta falcons a year or so ago when we had THAT game won also with 11 SECONDS left and they drive 50+ yards (or whatever the hell it was) to score the winning field goal??????? we have seen this time and time again and it just does NOT work consistently yet this coaching staff still believes it actually does without reservations.

i believe it was a legitimate question by the media that had to be asked that most everyone knew wouldn't be answered. i don't believe the hindsight 20/20 scenario is applicable here. that was a high risk call given the game situation, position and down. throwing against the grain is dangerous for any QB let alone one without even 1 game as a starter in the NFL in the freaking red zone where defenses are condensed into a 10 yard zone. for proof of that look what happened with cutler on the same call in a previous game. A. new orleans was the 2nd game of the season. i think by the time any message was sent or received it was probably after the detroit loss. that said, even if it were after the packer loss, that is three games into the season. does it usually take TWO to FOUR horrible games for a 'supposedly good' head coach to finally force a change (he was also getting crucified by the media) that should have been a halftime adjustment? don't you think it is important to protect the only franchise QB we have had in almost 30 years from career ending injury or death? didn't we run into offensive problems LAST season in the same vein as this? so i have to ask, doesn't lovie even watch what is going on offensively in practice or get a legitimate idea what the freaking game plan is from his offensive coordinator prior to gameday? is it some kind of surprise to him every week what our offense does on the field? B. did i ever say he should publicly rip into his coaches? no. but, with that said do you really need to antagonize the press for doing their job of asking hard questions when warranted? to me the statements "No. Maybe from you it is." and "next time it will" said it all about the coaches attitude during his press conference. this is not some new way lovie handles his duties of holding these. he has done this for years. so just what is his job description to you if he needs no knowledge of offense or defense? if he is not responsible for whether the offense or defense works week to week, is it just calling time outs and giving press conferences? if those are his key roles he even does that poorly. do you think lovie has a real grasp of offense with or without hanie at qb? i'm not talking X's and O's but the general concept on how they plan to attack teams each week and whether it is working or not and how to adjust during a game by giving input to is OC? you don't believe that is important? as far as defense, this IS lovie's show. that is why we ended up with marineli (sp) as DC after TWO LONG years of babich failing miserably and lovie himself failing for another. isn't marineli another coach that fits lovie's scheme? didn't we see rivera fired because he wanted to expand on other defensive ideas and concepts? this idea of lovie being appreciated by the players to me is just not that important to me as long as it doesn't get like the wanny regime. of course they like him. they also liked dick jauron. that does NOT make either one a good+ head coach.

i could live with that easily if we go for a LT in the first.

i certainly would like to see him given a shot at the spot he PLAYED in college at. if he is not quick enough to play the position then move him back to RT. if it played out that he could fill in the LT position better than average we would not have to worry about a high #1 pick to fill the spot which is a major plus for one of the premier spots in the NFL to find good players for.

i have to ask, lovie is appreciated by who? i agree that throwing players and coaches under the bus to the media is usually counterproductive but to state nonsense and attack the media, for no logical reason, is not productive either ("No. Maybe from you it is."). this goes back to the image lovie portrays of being stubborn and arrogant to a fault and in my opinion makes him look foolish trying to justify bad or questionable coaching decisions (or for that matter bad COACHES). it has happened in past years when bad play calling and poor clock management leaked over into future games when lovie tried to justify his poor decisions in the red zone after stating the same tripe as in this article to the press, "next time it will" or "I'd do it again". it is a very poor coaching practice to risk losing a game just to try and prove a point. next... 1. does anybody in the world at this point believe lovie is going to attack his HAND PICKED coaching staff? let's face it, there really are not many options left out there for him to choose from. 2. does it also lead one to believe that lovies knowledge of an offense is practically zero? how can you criticize something you have no clue about?

i agree that he is probably the best corner on this squad which is sad to say. we have basically ignored the CB position as much as we have ignored the offensive line position since angelo took over. at this point in peanuts career i am not 'sure' if he can be moved to a safety position. he is just running out of time in the NFL and the extra physical abuse a safety takes might be too much for him to absorb, not counting the amount of time it would take him to convert successfully. it just seems a shame that this coaching staff and GM have wasted a truly talented players career in a position he had a limited role in during his early stages as a CB. as far as jackson, i really know nothing about the guy at all. i just assumed he has an abundance of speed with the size and watching peanut, even with the cushion, trailing him by a step or more led me to that conclusion. if that is wrong then maybe the coaching staff just misplayed the way peanut should have been used in the game. on a final note... can you imagine how good our safeties would have been with mike brown and charles tillman playing together at that position? especially if we had addressed the CB position in 2006 by bringing in charles woodson as i wanted to at the time? we would have had maybe the best linebacking corp and defensive backs in the entire NFL!!!

i agree that peanut is very good in run support and very good at stripping the ball and in my opinion a very smart football player. what i do contest is the most important aspect for a good+ #1 cornerback in the NFL and that is his ability to play tight man coverage off the line of scrimmage. that is the pinnacle of his job description and separates the men from the boys. to say peanut can do this consistently is just not true because of the physical limitations he has. he is just not quick enough or fast enough to play up on the fast/quick key receivers in todays NFL. jackson in the last game was a prime example. steve smith of the panthers was another example of this with an exclamation point. everything you described in your post is the key qualities of an excellent safety!!

well, to me it is very realistic calling him a decent/good #2 corner. that he has been our best corner for years is a testament at how poorly we have drafted since angelo arrived. a VERY GOOD/GREAT #1 corner usually does not play 5-10 yards off the LOS every down but can and usually does play up on his man and bump him at the LOS to throw off the timing and cover him closely as he moves through his route. this is more true and important than in the past with the new rules designed with the 5 yard chuck rule that gives a receiver an unimpeded route if you don't. very good corners just plain don't get passes thrown in their direction nearly as often, even at #1 receivers, because teams compensate their passing attack by throwing more at the weaker defensive players. so if you want to look up meaningful statistics, look up how much yardage he has given up in his passes defended vs. your HOF #1 cornerback candidates you mention. in my estimation, if you want to compare picks, forced fumbles and recoveries then compare him to what a very good safety has done in the same system, john lynch. if the powers that be in our coaching staff had half the brains they think they have, peanut would have been playing safety for the last umpteen years and really been a candidate for the HOF and a perennial pro-bowler. i really like peanut and his ability to strip the ball from opponents is some of the best i have ever seen. but if you are seriously putting him in a category with HOF corners i am not even remotely going to buy into that.