Lucky Luciano

judging a head coach who has been in charge of a team for 7 years is not discounting anything quickly. as far as martz, in reality he came into this system with known flaws that no other franchise in the nfl would accept besides us. as it stands, i am not calling for martz’s *head at this time as i have seen adjustments and changes in philosophy (some certainly not soon enough though) in how he calls a game. i also understand the limitations he is forced to work with in regards to inferior offensive talent especially in our offensive line and receiving corp that no coach could overcome. this is one reason why he gets a bye for now and hope from him in our future. that said, on whose shoulders do these limitations martz is working with fall on? without a doubt mamu the nonblocking whale, an extra lineman tight end he lobbied for, but who else? how many years has it taken our head coach to understand just how bad this offensive line is/was? 2004 year 1: when lovie took over he had an offensive line of LT quasim mitchell, LG combo of ruben brown and metcalf, RG a combo of oft injured tucker, gandy and edwards. the only good and consistant linemen were RT tait and C kreutz. throw in WR’s d. terrel and tate. 2005 year 2: we move a pro-bowl caliber RT to play average at LT, at LG we continue with the aging stop gap r. brown and bring in an average at best LG utility replacement, garza, who has serious knee problems, RG we start the mighty metcalf, and bring in a stop gap end-of-career RT in f. miller to replace a very good RT in tait. we now have moose, m. bradley, barrian and j. gage as our WR corp. 2006 year 3: LT is tait a waste of talent at this position, LG near the end of the line r. brown, RG - exit horrible metcalf and plug in garza (who played LG) to a new position he never played before, enter stop-gap RT dinosaur f. miller. moose and barrian as our WR corp. 2007 year 4: LT is tait a very highly paid aging very good RT is still playing average and out of position, old and injured LG r. brown is sharing starts with the mighty metcalf and a utility RIGHT TACKLE st. clair who has never played on the left side let alone guard (it appears none of our reserves including 4th rd. pick beekman is better than a one armed brown), RG is still our new to the right side average garza, RT is still grandfather head case f. miller whose skills are becoming non-existant. 2008 year 5: LT is st. clair a right tackle we moved to left guard in 2007 who has never played left tackle (while our #1 pick for LT c. williams is on IR from a known back condition), beekman a 2nd year RIGHT guard is plugged in at LG, garza, a LG, is still starting starting at RG, RT tait is moved back to his original position we aquired him for except by now he is too old to do the job. we now sport the mighty WR set of – r. davis, d. hester, brandon lloyd, and an over the hill marty booker. 2009 year 6: LT is o. pace and when he sucks we move c. williams to LT, LG - is frank ohmy who played in 1 game in 2 years in atlanta before being waived. and played in 2 games at LT in carolina because of injury to a regular starter (this a guy angie gave a $14mil contract to), RG is garza, RT is our #1 draft pick c. williams a LT we now start at RT in his rookie debut. williams later replaces an injured waste of o. pace at LT and is replaced at RT by shaffer. WR set of – knox, hester, and bennet. 2010 year 7: LT is frank ohmy who failed miserably at left guard, LG is c. williams our #1 pick left tackle whose play is bad to say the least, RG is an average garza who is spelled by l. louis an ’09 7th round pick because of injury, RT is web a 7th round rookie. our WR set is knox and hester and throw in bennet. the menageri of the mess above is even beyond keystone cops confused comedy and if a defensive minded HC couldn’t see problems with that talent he has serious problems. our troubles have been obvious even to novices of the game since tait, miller and ruben brown. there are many more things involved in the quality of a coach than win/loss records. how well does he coach the players he is forced to field. do players develope better under him and his staff? can he adjust his scheme and philosophies to the personnel he is forced to field do to free agency, injuries or poor draft choices? these are just some of the important questions that need answers when judging the merits of coaching talent. in my opinion, lovie will not or is incapable of changing anything no matter who he is forced to play. i also don’t see players under him getting better and in many instances are played out of position. 1. in my opinion he has NOT “overall done a good job with the bears”. i really can’t think of any player who has become better because of lovie’s coaching. even d. manning who supposedly was under lovie’s wing last season showed little or no improvement. 2. his “mellow” sideline demeaner means nothing to me. what does mean a lot to me is a coach who is involved gameday to work with his coaching staff and players to address tactics, problems and performance that arise during a game and NOT necessarily waiting until halftime or the next tuesday to do so. i don’t see it in lovie. unless someone that attends games is seeing more than what they show lovie doing on the sidelines it appears to me he is in observer mode without much input. i rarely or never see him discussing tactics or performance with any coordinators OR players on the sideline when something is clearly not working. i also want to mention that lovie’s gameday “decisions” are not only questionable but horrible in my opinion. his use of the clock, especially within the 2 min. warning, is plain terrible. his timeouts called are inconsistant and untimely. his challenges quite frankly challenges the mind as to why he does or doesn’t throw a flag which again falls into the timeout catagory. even being a defensive minded coach shouldn’t he be getting his OC to focus on getting the plays in in a timely manner instead of burning timeouts needlessly as we have seen for years? these items alone are very meaningful on gameday and should not be as difficult as this team makes them. 3. whether or not players love playing for him is really not a concern. if it was, dick jauron would still be coaching in chicago. 4. to rebuild or not to rebuild, that is the question... doesn’t it come down to the overall body of work whether you want to replace a coaching staff? does he hold his players accountable? does he hold his coaching staff accountable? where has the improvement or lack thereof come from? how long did it take to impliment needed changes? how did our head coaches decisions effect not only the results we see now but results in the past and the future direction of this team? the reality is our head coach has done a poor job managing even the portion of this team he supposedly knows best which is defense. he has fired one good coordinator and hired an incompetant crony in babich to take over. it then took him TWO YEARS to demote him when the world could see the failure after 2 months! he then proceeded to place himself in position as DC in which his entire concept of a defense was solely on his shoulders and this philosophy again failed. instead of maybe changing tactics or the way his defenses are run he again hires another crony to replace himself who is basically a mirror image. this results in the same weaknesses we witnessed the day he arrived in chicago without any real hope for change. myself, i find it extremely odd that anyone would want to extend his contract when it is not necessary. wasn’t extending wanny and jauron a lesson learned? also... i don’t believe after watching this team under lovie’s control for 7 years is a quick, snap decision. am i saying just fire him without any consideration for who is going to fill his shoes? no. but, if there were a better coach out there we COULD hire then the answer is yes (we should have replaced everyone last january and we could have saved ourselves another 3-8 years of failure. you mention we will have another 3-4 year wait under a new regime. maybe so, but if it is a *better coach isn’t it worth it to do it now instead of wasting another 3+ years of a lovie extension PLUS the 3-4 years you say it will take us to get up to speed? aren’t we ahead by nearly a decade to cut bait now instead of later? doesn’t keeping lovie in the fold also mean we have the ‘if they are going to fire me next year i will just say i am retiring’, jerry angelo one of the worst gm’s maybe in the history of pro football to look forward to while lovie burns up yet another contract extension? don’t we continue in the ted phillips reign to nowhere? where else but chicago do we reward failure with job security, raises and extensions? *many don’t agree with me but i will state jeff fisher is better, bill cowher is better and shanny was/is better, just off the top of my head. NOTE: sorry for the bit of delay on the reply to your post. it's a slow time of year and i just got busy with other stuff and worked on this off and on for a while.

i can agree with your first statement somewhat. they do have different skillsets. but the main point is this... they are both shutting down one side of the field cutting an offenses weapons in half!!! you HAVE to have at least one corner who can cover man and do it very well no matter what type of system you impliment including the cover 2 and any versions of it. if you don't believe this look at other systems running the cover 2 and especially the colts. you can get away with one weaker side (CB) because you can then give him GOOD safety help without jeporadizing getting burned on the long ball. barber was very good at covering man when the role for him to do so called for it. he could play bump and run coverage and stay with the receiver off the LOS limiting the quick short passing attacks we are constantly under or deep routes without safety help which we are REALLY bad at. one of the reasons he could play zone and jump shorter routes when called was because of the tremendous pass rush the got from his defensive line inside and out. not many if any defenses have an interior line of sapp and mcfarland along with a DE like rice who was quick/fast and could get to the qb while the interior line collapsed the pocket or doubled up sapp. they also had very good linebackers and especially excellent safeties. we don't have anything close to that. that is why a very good cover corner can give our D-line the time it needs to get to the qb as we can cheat safeties to help out our #2 corner even with the 3 step drops. with a player like Asomuga or whatever his name is, we make our entire team better by giving our D-line the time it needs to get to a qb and it also frees up our linebackers to play like they SHOULD be playing making it a kill zone over the middle. it also compensates for the poor safeties we currently have as they can concentrate mostly on one side of the field. one more major plus is our blitzes are now way more effective and less dangerous to impliment. in todays pass oriented rules you must be able to play tight man coverage or fail. this is going to hold true especially in our division with rogers and the wr's that team fields. this is also going to apply to the lions who have a very good qb (if he can stay healthy) along with very good receivers. the vikings can't be far behind if they want to stay competetive in the NORTH.

WOW, *buddy ryan is just very good? i have watched ryan's defenses nearly throughout his entire nfl career. in my opinion his approach and tactics changed how the modern nfl was played. if you wanted to argue that **dick lebeau was one of if not the best secondary coach in modern NFL history i could not argue against that with much success. as DC i think he is a very good coach, but the best in NFL modern history? not a chance. bud carson was also a very good DC and also deserves some kudo’s. ============================================ *JAMES BUDDY RYAN NEW YORK JETS - With the AFL's Jets, his and Walt Michaels' defensive game plan was instrumental in holding the NFL's Baltimore Colts to seven points in Super Bowl III and earning Ryan his first Super Bowl ring. Seeing the emphasis that Weeb Ewbank placed on protecting Joe Namath and his fragile knees, Ryan created multiple blitz packages (i.e. the "59 blitz", the "Taco Bell blitz", and the "Cheeseburger blitz") reasoning that the quarterback is the focal point of any offense, and that a defense must attack the offense's strength and centerpiece. ryan was the jets linebackers coach 1968-75. MINNESOTA VIKINGS - 1976-77 - In the mid-1970s Ryan was defensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings where he was integral in directing the team's dominating defense. The defensive unit known as the "Purple People Eaters", was heralded for the defensive line's ability to punish rivals. Their motto was to "meet at the quarterback." This unit helped the Vikings to post-season appearances from 1973 to 1978, including three appearances in the Super Bowl. CHICAGO BEARS - 1978-85 - With the Bears, Ryan created the 46 defense, but it wasn't until 1982 that the scheme was perfected. This was due in large part because of Mike Singletary's ability to single-handedly dominate the middle of the field He became a household name of sorts in the mid-1980s. certainly you can't argue his role in the bears quest for a superbowl? in my lifetime i don't ever remember such a dominating defense in the playoffs as we saw in 1985. to completely shutout all of your opponents in the playoffs is a feat i have never even heard of before. top that off as being argued as the best defense in the history of the modern nfl is nothing to sneeze about either. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES - Ultimately Ryan proved that his talent selection was superior to most of the NFL as he groomed play-makers like Andre Waters and Randall Cunningham and drafted Pro Bowlers Seth Joyner, Clyde Simmons, Jerome Brown, Eric Allen, Cris Carter, Fred Barnett, and Keith Jackson. His division crown prediction did not come to fruition in his initial Eagles season but quick rebuilding achieved title glory in 1988, as the team won 10 games and continued to win at least 10 games a season until his departure. also of note... reggie white was drafted 1 year prior to ryan's arrival as head coach and was molded into the player he became by none other than buddy ryan. the eagles defense during this period was nearly as feared as the bears D of the 80’s. HOUSTON OILERS - 1993 - The Ryan-led defense helped propel the Oilers to an 11-game winning streak to end the 1993 regular season, only to be upset by Joe Montana and the Kansas City Chiefs in the Astrodome during the Divisional Round of the playoffs. ryan at this time was the defensive coordinator for the oilers with jeff fisher an understudy having failed as a head coach in philly. in '94 ryan had an altercation (he jacked his jaw) with kevin gilbride. this ended per se’ his time in houston. ARIZONA CARDINALS - After being given a large share of the credit for the success in Houston in 1993, he was named head coach of the Arizona Cardinals in 1994 "On arriving in Phoenix, Buddy Ryan announced, 'You've got a winner in town.'"Also named general manager of the Cardinals, Ryan went 8-8 his first year, but had a 4-12 nosedive the following season, rife with criticism that he ran his two drafts poorly and mishandled Arizona's quarterback situation as a GM. He lasted only two seasons there— where he had a record of 12-20 — before being fired again. He would subsequently retire to his farm in Kentucky, where he breeds race horses. by this time an aging ryan again tried the HC mantle and threw in GM with it hiring his sons as position coaches. it was clearly a mistake and led again to serious strife between his offensive and defensive players. this ended his career after only 2 seasons in arizona and he retired. LEGACY - Ryan was an assistant on three different teams to make the Super Bowl (New York, Chicago, Minnesota). Ryan built his reputation as a defensive specialist and was largely credited with implementing and perfecting the 46 defense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Ryan **DICK LEBEAU CINCINNATI BENGLES – 1984-91 - in 1984 LeBeau was promoted to be the Bengals defensive coordinator. He did very well, rarely allowing over 30 points in a game to an opponent. In 1984, his first season as defensive coordinator, the Bengals dropped from the top ranked defense in 1983 (when they coordinated by Hank Bullough) to 13th in 1984 and allowed only 339 points all season. In 1985 they dropped from 13th to 22nd but Dick LeBeau's zone blitz scheme was doing very well. The next season, 1986, improved cutting points allowed to 394 and finishing as the 20th ranked defense in the NFL. In 1987 they did even better, cutting the points allowed to 370. In 1988, the Bengals defense ranked 17th in the league, allowing 5,556 yards and 329 points during the regular season. Cincinnati had a superb defensive line, led by pro bowl defensive tackle Tim Krumrie, along with linemen Jim Skow (9.5 sacks), David Grant (5 sacks), and Jason Buck (6 sacks). Pro Bowl defensive backs Eric Thomas and David Fulcher (the world's biggest free safety) combined for 12 interceptions. The team ended up winning the AFC Central Division with a 12–4 record. Bengals lost Super Bowl XXIII against San Francisco 49ers for the second time in franchise history. The following season, 1989, the Bengals defense was 15th in the NFL, an improvement of 2 spots and were in the top half of NFL defenses due to LeBeau's scheme. In 1990 and 1991 the Bengals defense ranked 25th and 28th of 28 teams and the Bengals made a change in defensive coordinators. in cinncy he never broke into the top 10 defensive units. PITTSBURGH STEELERS – 1992-96 – LeBeau was hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1992 as the secondary coach. In 1994, 4 defensive players were called to play in the 1995 Pro Bowl (Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd and Rod Woodson). As a secondary coach Lake and Woodson were heavily influenced by LeBeau. In 1995 LeBeau was promoted to be the defensive coordinator and the 1995 Pittsburgh defense ranked third in the league in total yards allowed after they had finished as the second ranked defense in 1994 in that same category, so the drop off was minimal with LeBeau at the helm. They did allow 327 points in 1995 as opposed to 234 the year before when the Steelers defense was coordinated by Dom Capers, but they got to the Super Bowl in 1995 with a much improved offense. Pro Bowl linebacker Kevin Greene led the team with 9 sacks, while Pro Bowl linebacker Greg Lloyd led the team with 86 tackles. The secondary was led by Pro Bowl defensive backs Carnell Lake and Hall of Famer Rod Woodson. The Steelers lost against the Dallas Cowboys in Super Bowl XXX, making it the third Super Bowl lost for him. again was hired as a secondary coach under dom capers 92-94 and in 95 was promoted to DC. CINNCINATI BENGALS – 1997-99 - In 1997 LeBeau took a lateral move as defensive coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals. The Bengals defense was 25th in 1996 and in his first year back with the Bengals they only dropped to 28th and allowed just over 400 points. In 1998 they didn't drop at all, remaining 28th in the NFL (of 30 teams) and allowed 452 points. In 1999 the zone blitz scheme began to take hold and although the Bengals defense allowed 460 points, they dropped to 25th on the NFL (out of now 31 teams) an improvement of 3 spots. as DC in cinncinati he never was close to a top ten defense HEAD COACH BENGALS – 2000-02 - Despite LeBeau's considerable defensive coaching talent, his head coaching stint was unsuccessful, and his teams finished 4-9, 6-10 and 2-14, respectively, in his three seasons. His overall record as a head coach stands at 12-33. In 2003 LeBeau was an assistant with the Buffalo Bills. LeBeau then went back to the Steelers in 2004. similar to buddy ryan, the HC job seemed beyond him to become successful. of note: his defense while he was HC never reached the top 10 in any catagory. PITTSBURGH STEELERS – 2004- present - As an assistant coach he is credited with inventing the "Fire Zone" or "zone blitz" defense, which employs unpredictable pass rushes and pass coverage from various players has had good defenses during his tenure as DC in this period but it could also be noted that the steelers have had good+ D’s over the last 20 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_LeBeau

let me ask you this... WHY have we had three offensive coordinators/systems in SEVEN YEARS? for that matter why have we had four DEFENSIVE coordinators over this same period??? does that say anything about the abilities of our head coach to be able to put together a staff of his own and evaluate the abilities of these people? look at his choices. the only portion of our entire staff that has had any consistency has been our special teams coach and he never even hired him!!! we have changed coordinators like pairs of socks not to mention the one we had that didn't need changing (in rivera). that doesn't even include position coaches we have gone through like s&%$ through a goose. whose shoulders does this fall on? our coach? our gm? our president? or does it fall on ALL of them? in my opinion fisher does know how to work with a staff. he has worked and played under the best defensive coordinator in history. he has seen how strife and turmoil between coordinators works (gilbride and ryan) and how to avoid it. in fact i'm not even sure he doesn't have the chops to take over phillips job as president!!

in 16 years as head coach he has had only 5 losing season. over the last 12 years he has been to the playoffs 6 times and the superbowl once. over the time he had a good qb in mcnair look at his win/loss record. in that 9 year period there were 4 playoff appearances and actually over mcnairs tenure he was out one season injured and the last season before he left after his career was basically done. add to that the gm let mason their best receiver go to the ravens. even with the idiot vince young he pulled out 2 playoff appearances and one of those was using kerry collins. also, anyone remember justin gage? if that wasn't pulling the best out of an average player i don't know what is. the way i see fisher is similar to cowherd in pittsburgh. both these coaches continually lost good players to free agency and still fielded good teams. to me that is good coaching. think what he could do with cutler over his career even keeping martz or hiring someone he felt is a better OC.

i do not agree with arkush on this. i look at the talent and lack of talent fisher has had to work with over the last 10+ years and i see a coach who in my opinion seems to always get the most out of the players he is forced to work with. in other words he can coach players and they actually get better unlike what we have seen here. he has been in a division that features one of the hottest teams in the entire nfl in mannings colts for over a decade. he has had a poor owner/gm drafting and pushing players he was not willing to work with. he seemed to always have a nucleus of good coordinators around him. i would take jeff fisher in a minute over lovie smith and it has nothing what-so-ever to do with him being a former bear or part of a superbowl team in 85. in fact i believe fisher is one of the few coaches around who i believe is good enough to fire lovie this season and hire.

i couldn't disagree more. everyone seems to believe that a cover corner is somehow wasted in a cover 2 system. that couldn't be more untrue. the best cover 2 system over the last 15+ years was run in tampa where they had a cb who could cover man and in fact was a 5 time all-pro 5 time pro-bowler who was considered a shutdown corner in ronde barber. it is said that we run the cover 2 around 30% of our defensive plays and other types INCLUDING man coverage on the rest. and in my opinion YES we do need an elite cover corner especially in this division if we expect to compete with the packers who have a devastating lineup of wr's and another pro-bowl caliber qb in rogers. the same will go for the lions who also have a young very good qb and a pro-bowl caliber receiver. i also hardly think the vikings are not going to be looking for that franchise qb to stay competetive in this division so we will be in for the fight of our lives over the next 5-10 years for the division title. this is not even considering the best teams in the nfl and their high powered passing offenses who we will have to face in the playoffs or superbowl if we are lucky enough to get that far. i think we have proved that you do need elite corners and very good safeties also if you want to have a chance for superbowl rings. ours are no where near good enough and it showed in numerous important games including the '06 superbowl. even with the best DE in football, or with some of the best interior DT's when harris or even ted washington was around you still need to be able to cover receivers tight off the LOS long enough to even give your superior defensive linemen time to get to the qb. 1-3 step quick drop and passing attacks will eat you alive as we already know for a fact don't we? elite cb's are as rare and hard to find as elite DE's or qb's. what ever asomugha wants we should be willing to pay it unless we want to rely on the same type of nonsense and end results we have run for the last 7+ years. this should be our top free agent priority.

i am not sure of your meaning. why would you 'have' to sign him a year *before his contract is up or let him go? i would think the coaches you mentioned were perfect examples of why you DON'T want to extend a questionable coach still under contract before you have to. do you feel lovie actually deserves a raise and extension considering the previous THREE years? he already is one of the highest paid coaches in the nfl and you yourself said he was overpaid so why would we want to give him an extension and raise again? do you feel lovie will not sign a contract with chicago and do a pardee on us if we wait until his contract is actually up? will he be THAT ungrateful after the dog an pony show of last january in which we SHOULD have fired him, angie, and phillips? even after the cheap b$#@&*$s running this franchise stuck our necks in the noose for another season? if lovie wants to coach somewhere else than chicago IF he deserves an extension next year then by all means lovie, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. (in my opinion i would have fired lovie last season and if i could land a better coach this offseason i would fire him anyway.) *in january of '85 the bears extended ditka's contract for 3 years after his initial '82 three year contract expired and this was prior to the SF NFC playoff game for the '84 season. ditka was again offered extended contracts when this one expired. in truth wanny was a big hire and at the time a coup' for chicago. we blew that when we extended the idiot when he clearly didn't deserve it. in jauron we did the same thing that we did/will do with lovie. we extended a contract without having the need to do so. as far as trusting the imbeciles running this franchise to do anything right is a legitimate question. i don't and that is why we SHOULD have fired phillips first, last january, and hired a qualified football mind to run this franchise as president. but what is the alternative if they keep the same failures in place? just stay with what we have when it clearly is an inferior talent making critical decisions that effect the direction of this franchise? it seems that is the consensus from management when clearly NOBODY could say angelo is anywhere close to a good gm when you look at his body of work in the draft. he has done nothing to put quality ball players on the field at any position and left this franchise in a position it will take multiple good drafts to correct. does that mean we should extend him also because we "screwed the pooch" in the past? you are probably right about angie getting canned. this season left him the opening to decide "not to retire" to our dismay. so what do we have to look forward to? 3-4 more years of hit and miss post season crap in my estimation with second rate talent. isn't accepting garbage from our gm also a testement to fire lovie if being a company man supercedes the ability to put the best team on the field? i would also like to state there was a lot of talk (unconfirmed by me) about lovie's involvement choosing draft picks after the superbowl season. if that is true is that not another reason why he should be at the least held in limbo until we 'need' to renew his contract or let him go? i am not one who revered ditka. i believe he was a cog in fink's machine along with *buddy ryan whose weird combination polarized (like the perfect storm if you will) an amazing amount of talent into a superbowl win. i also believe he later squandered a huge amount of talent do to poor coaching (and poor drafts by mikey) after that season in which we should have won multiple superbowls. *i DO believe buddy ryan to be one of, if not the best, defensive coordinator in nfl history. just a poor head coach. muggs halas had just died which was in my opinion the worst thing that could possibly have happened to this franchise in their entire history. it was a pivot point for the bears in the modern era of football. we got ditka because of GSH against finks wishes which later resulted in finks leaving. ryan, a former viking coach, stayed after armstrong left because of his love by key defensive players written campaign. that is how we ended up with ditka/ryan. and yes, ditka was outcoached many times because of many of the attributes lovie smith has. stubborness as you mention and arrogance being key components. finally i want to comment on your following statement: "I have to side with the actual stars of the team when they support his methods of coaching 100%." the stars of this team also said the same thing about dick jauron. many of the same faults jauron had that caused his demise are the same we deal with now in lovie smith. although lovie has improved this season i find it hard to rally behind a coach whose failings he would not correct, let alone accknowledge over a 3 year period, when clearly his system did not work and in truth still will not work the way he runs it.

the biggest need we have is to fire ted phillips AND jerry angelo especially if giving one of the highest paid coaches in the entire NFL an extension is his/their top priority!!! why in the HELL would you even want to consider this when lovie has another year on his contract? especially if you look at his success over the last 4 years since his superbowl appearance. could it be because it takes angie and teddy's jobs out of the line of fire and masks the complete ineptitude of both of these drones? JUST SAY NO!!!!!

in free agency this is THE guy we need more than any other and would make the greatest impact on this teams success. we should have gone after him the last time he was a FA. sign this guy, a #1 cover corner, and our defense can play with anyone for a long time. next sign a 'good' guard or RT if the money is still there. not necessarily a top free agent but a good one if there is one available who can be a 'stop gap' for a freaking high round drafted lineman to get up to speed. if no lineman is available sign a decent WR who is starting on the downside of his career.

if cutler wasn't a pussy he would have cut his own leg off above the knee, tied it off with a tourniquet and duct taped a sideline marker to his leg as a peg and gone back out there. what a wimp!

i don't think i would be this quick to prop them up. they are still horrid in my opinion. they are still not engaging at the LOS even if they play tighter. i want to also add... peanut had a good game against the seahawks. this was because he was lining up against the type of player he was drafted to cover about 8 years ago. a big bodied receiver who was not blazingly quick off the LOS. that is not the norm anymore in todays nfl and certainly not against the packers. most WR's are quick and fast and i still don't believe he or our other CB's can cover those types of receivers well. this is going to be a real tough matchup for our DB's and if we can't figure out how to close the short passing gaps over the middle we could very well be in a lot of trouble.

here is what i would do on the first day... 1st round: we are picking near the bottom no matter what, so a good or better LOT is not likely to be there. if there is a good RT with some real potential and value i take him first. second, if no tackles look like potentially excellent prospects i look at CB next, but ONLY if there is a corner who is a 'cover' corner and NOT a cover 2 prospect. this guy would have to be at a minimum a real 5' 10" or bigger with speed. you are going to have to look for one with the potential this far down in the first to become a #1 corner. if no prospect is available in this mold then look for a guard prospect. at this slot we should be able to find an excellent guard who with little work should become a starter in a short period of time. 2nd round: we again are picking at the bottom so we should look for a right tackle of potential quality (if we did not get one in the previous round). second we should again look at guard even if one was picked in the previous round. there should still be good value for an excellent prospect. if no tackles or guards of quality are available find your excellent quality center for the next 15 years. groom him to replace kruetz AND our long snapper mannelly and throw him in at guard if he can play there until the transition. if no linemen look like excellent prospects then look at a cover corner or SLB as a last resort. 3rd round: if we haven't picked up a quality center this is the time for it. if none of value are available in our slot and if we haven't drafted 2 guards by this time then look again for a very good guard prospect. if none are available then make our pick a free safety who has size and can cover or strong side linebacker.

gotta agree. i couldn't care less if he wants his privacy and NEVER talks to the media. as long as he doesn't beat women, children and dogs or is a rapist, thug or murderer, who really cares what he does or doesn't do? if he gives his job 100% and is reasonably civil with his teammates and not a locker room cancer that's all that counts with me.

i really disagree with this statement. that IS the definition of his job. a GM's goal should be to draft HOF quality players with every pick and not just throw $h!t against a wall and hope something sticks!! the 4th round on is where you can reach for players or take a chance on an injured or character issue player. your special teams, project players and depth are important in these rounds. the first three rounds of the draft should be high quality players that constitute the blood, muscle and bone of your franchise. a shotgun approach with the hopes of "increasing COMPETITION" is a recipe for what we currently have and leads to disaster. these rounds are where your best chance is to draft quality starters, not just average players or depth. let's look at our running back situation for instance. we spent THREE first day picks to find one who 'could' probably turn out to be good. even then we spent a good hunk of change in FA, getting taylor, because one first round pick was cut (in which i believe we paid a good chunk of garanteed money to get rid of him) and one round 3 pick is at BEST a special teams player!!! think back as to what quality players we could have drafted in 2 of those 3 slots. hasn't this effected our cap situation also for the worse? with the salary cap in effect in todays NFL it is imperative that you draft quality starters. picking up quality free agents to fill your base needs, rather than the draft, is just too expensive. it can't be done with any lasting success. usually these high quality FA players are... 1. on the downside of their careers due to age or health. you can 'usually' expect only a few years of very high quality play out of them before they need to be replaced again. not many are just coming into the prime of their careers. a good example is ted washington. 2. the cost is prohibitive as these players are demanding top dollar. in this instance you have to probably let other good players go into FA or cut them because they won't fit under the cap thus weakening your team. you also make the other players on your team wonder why they aren't getting top dollar too even when in some instances they are clearly better players than the new comer. 3. you risk continuity and locker room problems with players you have not brought up under your system. plus, even with really good FA's, in many instances it takes a season to acclimate them into your system just to get top play out of them and the players around them. high risks have NOT paid out dividends for jerry angelo!! we wasted multiple 2nd rd picks reaching for players. example: dan bazuin a small school, injured BUST who is out of the NFL, d. manning a small school safety who FIVE YEARS later is still a below average, m. bradley an injured, inexperienced WR who never even broke the starting lineup and is out of football (BUST) and tank johnson a decent player who had character issues who we CUT. peanut who has turned out to be a good player but not utilized to his greatest potential and was a small school reach 7 years ago, devin hester who was drafted at least one round higher than he should have for a DB and special team player prospect (who failed at DB). the only player drafted that wasn't a reach and was drafted rounds before anyone else would have is possibly forte. then add gaines adams and angie trading OUT of our first pick in the 2009 draft, to the list of idiotic moves and that sums up the second round of the NFL draft for his career. well... how bout the THIRD round? the great offensive lineman t. metcalf, who the idiot angelo gave an extension, is currently out of football. seems like nobody wanted him except us because he sucked forever. roosevelt williams another small school reach who we cut after camp a year later and is currently out of the NFL, dusty D another injured player who we reached on and is currently out of the NFL, the great mike okwo a player projected at least 1-3 rounds lower who is now out of the NFL, garret wolfe a special teams player who we again reached for who would have gone at least 1-3 rounds lower, m. harrison another reach due to character issues who couldn't even make to camp because of supposedly weight problems and is average at very best, iglesias who couldn't even get off our practice squad and is currently GONE. that leaves ONE very good player in briggs who was drafted 7 YEARS ago, b. barrian an average WR and bennet another WR prospect who is yet to be evaluated. would you want this mess on YOUR portfolio if you were looking for a job in this area? when has this approach ever worked? list the players who are 'quality' starters on this team on EITHER side of the ball that angelo drafted in ANY round. a good measuring stick is this... if we traded ANY player on this roster angelo drafted, what round draft pick would we be compensated with from the trading team? is it even as high as what we drafted them with? angie drafted 11 offensive linemen. he "MISSED" on the offensive line for his entire tenure here. the ONLY player we are not sure of is the OLT who is now playing GUARD because he is worse than one of the worst OLT's in the NFL who he drafted in the 1st round. what has he done on the defensive side of the ball to make this team better with his drafts? at what position? we have the worst DB's probably in the nfl and couldn't get more than a 4th rounder for any or all of them. at LB we have lance briggs with no depth at LB at all ready to start for a season now or in the future. DL? he drafted m. harrison a depth, at VERY best, defensive lineman and tommie harris who is, due to injury or is mentally toast, finished. who else? sorry, but in my opinion none of this is out of context. let's look at our starters... CB - none are very good. peanut is aging and quite frankly hasn't been a good CB for some time (although he would have been an excellent safety). that means we need 2. is there any depth on this roster you could say is good enough to start for any real good team in the nfl? S - d. manning is consistantly average at best. wright? an unknown at this time, c. harris?. safety, especially free safety, is a very important key when running the defense we currently do. we need at LEAST one very good one and maybe even a very good strong safety to boot. LB - all three starters are 30 + years old. who on this roster is qualified to be a starter behind them? DL - both DE's are 30+. one DT, adams, is 30+. tommy harris is done. so what depth is there currently on our roster to replace any of them as sure starters? OL - kreutz is 33. who else is worth anything on this starting roster? maybe c. williams in the future? at what position? we need in essence 2 tackles, 1 guard and a center. FB - mamu is over 30 that comes out to 14 key starters who are aging or suck who need to be replaced within the next 1-4 years.

everyone wants to talk about angies free agents but if you draft well you wouldn't need any or only a few to put you over the top on a superbowl run. just look at the AGE of our good players then look at the depth we have on this team to replace them. we have nearly ZERO depth at any position where players in the wings are pushing the starters who age or retire in the near future. that said, if this isn't failure after NINE YEARS i don't know what is... 1st RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 5 offensive players 2 defensive players - 2006 traded out of 1st round and got d. manning 2 picks in 2003 0 picks in2006 0 picks in 2009-2010 traded with broncos for cutler Quality Starters - Tommie Harris - 2004 - ? 1 2010 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2009 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2008 14 14 Chris Williams T Vanderbilt 2007 31 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL) 2005 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas 2004 14 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma 2003 14 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State 2003 22 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida 2002 29 29 Marc Colombo T Boston College 2nd RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 2 offensive players 5 defensive players 2 picks in 2006 0 picks in 2009 - traded down with seahawks for #44 3rd rd gilbert; #105 4th rd melton; #140 5th rd knox (through broncos) Quality Starters - Charles Tillman, EDIT - Matt Forte? Devin Hester - special teams? 2 2010 - traded overall #42 to Tampa Bay for Gaines Adams - sucked and dead 2009 - traded out of 2nd rd, overall #49 with Seahawks (Center Max Unger), for 3rd and 4th round picks #68 Gilbert and #105 Melton 2008 13 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 2007 30 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan 2006 10 42 Danieal Manning S Abilene Christian 2006 25 57 Devin Hester CB Miami (FL) 2005 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma 2004 15 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington 2003 3 35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette 3rd RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 5 offensive players 7 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2008 and 2007 Quality Starters - Lance Briggs (Bernard Barrian - Bears wouldn't match salary offer by Vikes) 3 2010 11 75 Major Wright S Florida 2009 4 68 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State Pick from Seahawks 2009 35 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma Compensatory Pick 2008 7 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 2008 27 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 2007 30 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois 2007 31 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford 2006 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma 2004 15 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State 2003 4 68 Lance Briggs LB Arizona 2002 7 72 Roosevelt Williams CB Tuskegee 2002 28 93 Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi 4th RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 2 offensive players 10 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2004 and 2003 Quality Starters - Nathan Vasher?, Alex Brown 4 2010 11 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 2009 5 105 Henry Melton DE Texas Pick from Seahawks 2009 19 119 D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt 2008 21 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 2007 31 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College 2006 23 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State 2005 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue 2004 14 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas 2004 16 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland 2003 3 100 Todd Johnson S Florida 2003 19 116 Ian Scott DT Florida 2002 6 104 Alex Brown DE Florida 5th RD TOTAL PICKS - 15 6 offensive picks 9 defensive picks 2 picks in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2004 3 picks in 2003 Quality Starters - Mark Anderson? 5 2010 10 141 Josh Moore CB Kansas State 2009 4 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian Pick from Broncos in Cutler deal 2009 18 154 Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State 2008 7 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 2008 23 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 2007 30 167 Kevin Payne S Louisiana-Monroe 2007 31 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire 2006 27 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama 2005 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson 2004 15 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh 2004 16 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State 2003 4 139 Bobby Wade WR Arizona 2003 8 143 Justin Gage WR Missouri 2003 36 171 Tron Lafavor DT Florida 2002 5 140 Bobby Gray S Louisiana Tech 6th RD TOTAL PICKS - 10 7 offensive picks 3 defensive picks 2 picks in 2006 and 2003 3 picks in 2002 0 picks in 2007 and 2008 Quality Starters - none? - In 2010 we traded LB Jamar Williams and a conditional pick to Panthers to get Chris Harris back 6 2010 12 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 2009 17 190 Al Afalava S Oregon State 2006 26 195 J.D. Runnels FB Oklahoma 2006 31 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 7 181 Chris Harris S Louisiana-Monroe 2003 18 191 Joe Odom LB Purdue 2003 33 206 Brock Forsey RB Boise State 2002 27 199 Adrian Peterson RB Georgia Southern 2002 31 203 Jamin Elliott WR Delaware 2002 38 210 Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA 7th RD TOTAL PICKS - 13 8 offensive picks 5 defensive picks 2 picks in 2007 5 picks in 2008 0 picks in 2006 and 2002 Quality Starters - none 7 2010 11 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M 2009 37 246 Lance Louis OG San Diego State Compensatory Pick 2009 42 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburg Compensatory Pick 2008 1 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 2008 15 222 Chester Adams G Georgia 2008 36 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 2008 40 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State 2008 41 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 2007 11 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi 2007 31 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2005 6 220 Rodriques Wilson LB South Carolina 2004 14 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (FL) 2003 47 261 Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh TOTAL PICKS OFFENSE - 36 TOTAL PICKS DEFENSE - 40 1st DAY PICKS Rds 1 - 3 Offense - 13 Defense - 13 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 4 - 5 Offense - 8 Defense - 19 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 6 - 7 Offense - 15 Defense - 8 4 QB's - rds 1, 4, 5 and 6 11 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 3 OT's rd 7; 1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7 3 RB's - rds 1,2,3 1 FB - rd 6 11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6 8 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 3 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7 6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5 8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 17 DB's - 8 S's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6 9 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 3 rd 5, 2 rd 7

1. ownership: a) mike mccaskey - for running this franchise into the ground for decades with the help of his family ted phillips - for doing nothing to help this franchise win. knows absolutely nothing about running football operations. is only a punching bag buffer and money man between mikey (who was/is running this franchise) and the fans and media. c) jerry angelo - whose poor drafts over 8 years have decimated the quality of players not only currently on this roster but our future players as well. it could well take 3 years of good drafts to recover from once all the aging players on this roster either retire or are too old to play at a high level. his only redeeming factor has been a few good free agent acquisitions. 2. expansion teams - the nfl for the sake of money has diluted the quality of play by adding about 9 expansion teams over the last 35-40 years. this means that there are a total of 477 less players to go around and has taken away from a limited amount of quality college draftable players, about 56 players per draft, in a league that suffered from a lack of quality quarterbacks and key players to start out with. adding more is virtual suicide. 3. regular season games played abroad - again for the sake of the dollar regular season games are played elsewhere giving one team, it's fans and their cities financial structure, a disadvantage. 4. rupert murdock, nfl channel and espn - for making a portion of games watchable on a pay-per-view basis and changing the rules of the game to sell more media and commercial time. if you don't have satellite you don't watch games on the nfl channel. if you don't have cable or satellite subscription you can not watch monday night football. to pay for the high price of sunday ticket and the networks overpaying for game broadcasts they have changed the rules of the game to fit in more commercials and to appease the mentally deficient who need basketball scores to keep an interest in the game. 5. any consideration of an 18 game season - look at the injuries at this time of year even with a 16 game season. the superbowl could virtually field 3rd and 4th string talent even in the diluted nfl of today.

and this has what to do with the discussion of the cover 2? then by all means if only wins constitutes the validity of a defensive scheme we should be running the same one the patriots are running, right? don't they have one of the best winning records in the 21st century?

i do agree that the bears have blitzed a lot. the problem with that is the way we structured our blitzes was/is? poorly schemed by our defensive coaches. example... the linebacker blitz where our MLB is up on the OL prior to the snap is a great example of poor coaching. in fact it has taken marinelli this season to even realize it was an ignorant call that was beaten to death for THREE previous years without success and he even continues to do it to this day occasionally. they virtually neutralized a pro-bowl caliber MLB in all aspects of his play by moving him up to the LOS and trying to blitz him through the center of the line at the snap where he gets virtually swallowed up in the wash of the OL and DL, OR backpeddling him out of this tired look to cover a deep zone which made him moving BACKWARDS instead of forward at the snap of the ball. we rarely blitzed our corners or safeties which actually did have some success although the problem with this was our DB's are so poor or poorly coached they couldn't cover their own a&&'s with both hands. so i think it doesn't really tell a story about our blitzing unless you factor in it's successes and failures. 1. what we are playing is not per se' the "cover 2" as it was designed to work. this is some bastardized variation of it that lovie has incorporated either through ignorance or lack of personnel to run it correctly (in which case it needs to be adjusted to work with the players you have or else just &hit canned and move on to another scheme.). what lovie runs, and maybe the cover 2 in general, is a prevent defense that works under strict enforcement at certain times/instances in a game. 2. because of scheme our LBer's in many instances have been neutralized in pass protection where their jobs in a true cover 2 is 'usually' to cover against slants or medium deep zones up the middle while shoring up run defense. in other words the receivers/TE's being passed 'supposedly according to the definition of the cover 2', over by our corners into these middle zones is nearly non-existent. 3. our safeties are either playing so deep they are virtually out of the immediate play (and reacting) or making poor decisions on what their responsibility actually is. not to mention the fact that over the last 5+ years we have put players out of position to even give them a chance to succeed. case in point... chris harris. this is NOT a free safety but at best a strong safety. yet we continuously hear from our coaching staff that ALL safeties are interchangeable, which is pure nonsense, and see players that are considered strong safeties because of their lack of cover skills or speed put in positions to fail. it has happened time and again throughout lovies tenure. 4. our CB situation... i agree with your statements that our corners are lacking in talent and it hampers their abilities to play bump and run. what this does NOT excuse is that in lovie's scheme our CB's have virtually played so soft over the last umpteen years it is impossible for the rest of our players to do their jobs without him finding a solution to this problem. time and again i have seen our corners lined up 5+ yards off the LOS and then BACKPEDDLING even further at the snap, yards beyond the first down marker. this is where good qb's will eat you alive taking the 5 yard curl in the flats or the slants across the middle where the zone is virtually free from defenders as our LB's and corners are out of the play. in this system ALL wide receivers have a completely unimpeded, untouched route from the snap of the ball. it's like practice for these qb's. that is the reason we have made mediocre qb's look like joe montana and have career passing days against us and good ones look like HOF players. in fact it took lovie virtually 6 years to even bring our corners up to the LOS to play tight, as they occasionally have, over this season and last (since marinelli arrived). and even then they don't jam the WR to disrupt the timing of the route. do they even practice bump and run in camp? if so i have never heard of it (although if i am wrong please let anyone attending camp to set the record straight). CB quality, we are in total agreement on this subject ... getting back to the tired old chestnut of peanut. i can't emphasize strongly enough how peanut should have been moved to free safety at LEAST 4 years ago. instead of actually bringing in CB's like woodson or offering the guy in oakland good contracts to come here as we desperately need/needed a cover corner. but because 'supposedly' the cover 2 doesn't need them, us not bringing one in is ludicrous, and if any wanted to compare us to the tampa 2 system just look at barber who was a pro-bowl quality corner that could cover man when needed. agree, we are probably running the cover 2 around 1/3 of the time. but... we are still incorporating the essential weakness of a poorly orchestrated cover 2 by playing our corners extremely soft whether they play man coverage or not. every defense does not incorporate a scheme that virtually gives every team an unimpeded route by it's wide receivers on every down for 5+ yards per play. every defense does not incorporate a scheme that has no options if it's front 4 are getting no pressure on an opposing qb to make the scheme even function. let's face it...how can it NOT be x's and o's or not placing the personnel we have in a position to win when we have 2 probable HOF defensive players on this defense along with another continual pro-bowler? we virtually have the best DE playing today and the best LBing corp in football. and yet they can't come up with a change in scheme to compensate when an opponent neutralizes a portion of this defense?

not only is lovie a poor (to say the LEAST) head coach, he is a poor coordinator. for those doubters, can the statistics of THIS season overshadow the 4 years prior to the 2010 season? 1. why was ron rivera fired/released? it was ego on lovie smiths part. he let an important coach go who had proven to be effective to replace him with a friend/crony/yes man in babich who had NO business or qualifications stepping into the DC position. for TWO years this coach held our defense in a stranglehold and was only forced to step back when lovie's own job was questioned for letting this train wreck continue. 2. after lovie 'demoted' babich he took over the reins of the defense personally. we saw little or no difference in the actual results or changes in scheme. lovie can't even justify his position as a defensive coordinator!! he is a one-trick-pony that either doesn't have the knowledge, or worse yet he is stubborn beyond stupidity, to change or adjust the defense he is implementing to the players he is forced to play and the opponents he faces!!!!! 3. even when he SHOULD have been fired in 2010, the poor management running this franchise (the JOKE of a president of football operations, ted phillips AND CEO mike mccaskey) decided the millions paid to this BAD coaching staff and inept GM were more important than winning superbowls. thus we ended up with a lame duck coach/staff who couldn't even entice fewell to become a freaking DC. so what happens? we stay in lovies comfort zone and raise a DL coach that is basically a clone of the lovie/tampa 2 system because no one in the football world is buying into lovie smith and his closed system. oh yea, i forgot... the EXACT same thing happened on the offensive side of the coaching staff when turner fell on the sword so management could justify lovie's contract and throw dust into the media/fans eyes yet again. 4. can anyone really say that lovie smith is an ASSET on game day? his stubborness and stupidity outshine any redeeming qualities he could possibly muster. his clock management is horrendous. his game-day adjustments are near non-existent. his player/coaching preparations on EITHER side of the ball are in question to say the least. how long had we seen our CB's playing so far off the receiver that any semi-pro qb could look like joe montana? at LEAST 2-3 years!! how long had we used the idiototic notion that our LB's were confusing qb's by faking a blitz up the middle only to drop back at the snap or stupidly BLITZ from that position? at LEAST 2-3 years!! 5. i don't have any facts to substanciate this but it has been floating around that lovie actually had some say during angelo's drafts after the superbowl. if this is true can anyone possibly say he is able to evaluate talent to any degree? so what are the qualities, beside MONEY, that would entice any competent owner to keep this staff around? you mean like him PERSONALLY tutoring d. manning to become a better safety last season? that worked out pretty well. this is just another compromise to mediocrity. in a world that owners know anything about football or even running a corporation it should start with a ted phillips firing first and foremost and hiring someone who is competent and understands the game of football and how it works on multiple levels. let that person with knowledge hire and fire his own GM, coaching staff and scouting department. but... since this organization is run like a complete joke the best to hope for is to hire a good GM. someone who could evaluate talent on both sides of the ball and have the cajones to USE the draft picks he has to draft quality players. not just players who he thinks can start or contribute immediately but with some forethought to the future and players who need to develop like offensive linemen and quarterbacks. the problem with that? NOBODY in this franchise would know one if his name were tatooed on their foreheads!!! how did we find the idiot we currently have? we hired a firm, for gods sake, who took FIVE MONTHS to narrow it down to angelo!!!! what happens when he leaves/is fired? do we hire the same imbeciles who gave us him? or is the guy that ruined the seahawks, angies buddy, our successor to angie? oh boy, happy days are here again.... final note...... wouldn't a good president already have had this figured out for years now?

neither *years were productive or efficient, they were both less than average. but i have to say, we regressed from a very bad '08 offensive line to basically a semi-pro, horrific, milestone bad, offensive line in '09 and '10. in these environments no qb can play well. 1. in this day and age the short dink and dunk throws without being able to go deep will not win you superbowls. you have to be able to shoot it out with qb's like manning and brees and be able to score quickly. otherwise we will end up with defenses playing us 8 and 9 in the box without fear of getting burned. this means your running game is at a clear disadvantage, not to mention your short passing game is doomed to failure. anytime you get behind 10 points or more in a game with time fading you have to be able to open up the field with a real threat that your qb can make completions 15-20 yards or more. 2. just to be clear on this subject... cutler does NOT have control over calling audibles at the LOS. he also does NOT have the ability to let his receivers get deep because he is either sacked or running for his life. and he does NOT appear to have any quality receivers to help him out in any type of pattern. here is how i see the draft which differs from your point of view... LT - usually this is the most important position on your offensive line and the hardest to find a quality player. i agree, usually if you want to draft your good+ LT you should expect to do so as high as you can get or trade up to into the top half of the 1st round. RT - i believe that generally the slots to look for these players is the bottom half of the 1st round or throughout the 2nd round. sometimes you can find them in the lower rounds and groom them over a period of time. but, a safe bet is where i have stated. also a number of RT's show up when teams draft for LT's and they don't turn out thus pushing them onto the right side kicking up the slots where they were initially drafted. john tait is a very good example of this. that said, there are always exceptions to every rule (a killer sure thing RT may go very high if the need is there for a team finishing out their OL or have extenuating circumstances like a left handed qb). G - rarely are guards, unless the need is desperate or the player is exceptional, drafted higher than the 2nd round. you should be able to find good+ starting quality guards in the 2nd, 3rd, or even the 4th round (if you plan on grooming them behind an active player). unlike us, we draft them in the 6th or 7th round and expect them to start or flat out cut them. i still believe the trade was justified for what we gave up. plus i also believe we could have filled out at the very LEAST our guard and center problems over the last 2 years drafts if angelo wasn't a complete idiot. like i said before, we pissed away TWO 2nd round draft picks over the last 2 years that could have been the difference on how this offensive line is playing in a huge way for the next 10 years. instead we ended up with players like igleasius (sp) or j. gilbert. players that not only we don't want but anyone else. hmmm... then why did they draft tebo in the 1st round? if you are happy with your young qb why would you waste a first rounder on the same position? hell our tackles aren't even recognizing potential defensive problems/blitzers right in front of them. the qb has to tell these players who to block? isn't it just common sense and their basic job to do this? how many times have our tackles let players lined up to their outside shoulder go by untouched while they are double teaming a defender with the freaking guard?? it's mindboggling. it has tons to do with there being NO place to go that our qb doesn't have rushers knocking him down. left, right, front, behind, take your pick. there is nobody or side of the line to trust that they can hold a block consistantly long enough to give him enough time to do anything. that means the clock in a qb's head is virtually useless because he can't anticipate the time to do anything. look, i know you have been an advocate for drafting offensive linemen over the years like me and think our drafts have been bad to say the least. so we are not that far off from each other. it is your belief that orton (whom i did like, just not compared to the potential talent we could get out of cutler) would have been the best option in chicago and i have no problem with that. we just have opposing view points which is cool and i can live with that. *2008 rushing attempts: 434 attempts (15th in nfl) for 1673 yds (24th in nfl) passing attempts: 528 (14th in nfl) for 3061 yds (21st in nfl) 1st downs: 264 (27th in nfl) yards per play: 4.8 yds 5 games passed for 200-299 yds 1 game passed for 300+ yds 5 games rushing 100-199 yds 1 game rushing 200+ yds 2009 rushing attempts: 373 (ranked 29th in nfl) for 1492 yds (29th in nfl) passing attempts: 563 (8th in the nfl) for 3473 yds (17th in nfl) 1st downs: 262 (25th in nfl) yards per play: 5.1 yds 7 games passed for 200-299 yrds 2 games passed for 300+ yds 7 games rushed for 100-199 yds 0 games rushed for 200+ yds

LOL, ok i will put away the hypo scenario. i too dislike favre personally more than anyone i can think of. jimmy mac? i really liked him and still like him but the truth of the matter is he was not physically built to play in the nfl with his mindset. he took a beating and was always hurt even before that scumbag martin slam dunked him. lacerated kidney etc. etc. injuries were just part of his gameplan and it (and ditka) cost us multiple superbowls.

i understand the hatred for favre at this point in his career (i'm completely on that bandwagon) but in reality, if he came here from the falcons and had the career he had in green bay in chicago i just can't believe anyone would choose orton or any qb chicago as sported in 50 years over the talent he had. it would be just mindboggling to me that anyone wouldn't want a player who never missed a game in his entire career and is going to the hall of fame over the cannon fodder we have had in this city. mcmahon is one of my favorite personalities but if favre were playing during the 85 bear era we would have had 4 rings without a doubt in my mind. no flutie. no tomzak and no harbaugh (plus the other 50 or more).

just so i got this right... you would choose to have kyle orton as he was 2 years ago to present rather than brett favre in his prime for a career in chicago? well, to each his own. i personally can't stand favre's lovefest with himself and he is a jerk as a human being but there is no way i pass up the talent that guy possessed over a 15 year span to have a dink and dunk quarterback like orton who at best gives me a whiff of the playoffs in a one and done without a stellar all-pro team behind him. i personally want, in the era of a pass oriented, pass rule qualified nfl, a killer qb who can not just manage a game and get me that once every 20-30 year trip to the superbowl but give me the real possibility and chance of WINNING a superbowl every single year. look at nfl history. how many teams with vs. teams without very good to excellent qb's have multiple superbowl wins? superbowl wins is the ONLY measuring stick for success in this league. everything else is meaningless. as far as being fond of a guy like manning? uhhh yea, who isn't. he is arguably the best quarterback ever to play in the history of the nfl. who wouldn't want him? 1. 2006 – 3rd team offense in nfl; 14th in passing, 15th in rushing 2007 – 20th team offense in nfl; 15th in passing, 30th in rushing i am assuming you are talking about 2008 when orton/turner combined for a 9-7 season with no playoffs? 2008 – 15th team offense in the nfl; 21st in passing, 24th in rushing – here is our offensive line in 2008: LT st. clair, LG beekman, C kreutz, RG garza, RT tait. orton: 58.5 completion percentage, 79.6 QB rating, 27 sacks 465 attempts, 12 INT’s forte: 3.9 yds rushing average, 7.6 yd avg receiving this was productive, efficient, and consistent? i will give you consistent, consistently worse than average. 2009 – 19th team offense in the nfl; 17th in passing, 29th in rushing offensive line: LT pace LT c. williams, LG omiyale, C kreutz, RG garza, RT c. williams RT shaffer, this was one of the worst offensive lines ever. cutler: 60.5 completion percentage, 76.8 QB rating, 35 sacks, 555 attempts, 26 INT’s, the only reason cutler didn’t have 70 sacks is because of his mobility. if you can find a times hit stat it also has to be phenominal. forte: 3.6 yds rushing avg, 8.3 yd avg receiving 3. a lot of bear fans were itching to dump our pro-bowl linebacker, briggs, 2 years ago when he wanted a big contract and talked about leaving chicago. so i wouldn’t take too much stock in what fans say about a player who wants out. a better tool to measure his popularity would be how many fans and media people wanted him out of denver the previous year? deep ball inacuracies? and you are going to compare him to orton in this aspect? really??? 4. too much emphasis on the pro-bowl? that may be true at times but when was the last time ANY bear qb was even considered in the same breath with the pro-bowl? 5. you mean like 6. the problem here is that the “guy”, angelo, COULD afford cable. even without a first round pick who most people knew angelo wouldn’t use on an OL (especially after spending a first on one the year before). he traded out of our highest pick in 2009, a 2nd rounder in which he could have drafted unger the best projected center in the draft and a good guard to boot, to get more lower round picks (3rd and 4th round picks) in which he picked again, DL. he should have drafted players to keep the player he just spent the moon to get healthy. in my opinion 2nd rd, 3rd rd, and even 4th rd picks should have been used on the OL!! then in 2009 he traded our highest pick in the ’10 draft, a 2nd rounder, for another DL veteran who couldn’t even break the starting lineup in the team we got him from and couldn’t break ours with the average players we had!! to top that off he again spent his highest pick in 2010, a 3rd rounder, on drafting yet another safety instead of the critical OL that was virtually falling apart before his eyes when he made the trade!!!! it was pure stupidity or pure insanity, take your pick. 1. turner is and was terrible. the problem was our fearless leaders decided to keep a lame duck GM and coaching staff for monetary reasons. so... A) we ended up with nobody wanting to come in to coach for this team on either side of the ball. we didn’t even address the major concerns on our offensive line that CAUSED most of the offensive problems we witnessed in 2009. 2. our OL was not good at anything including pass protection last year and has gotten worse this year. 3. if bronco fans are laughing about anything this year, being 2 and 5, they must be complete loonies. 4. with what he is working with he will never look like anything but what he looks like now. there is no S on the front of his uniform that i have seen. 5. keeeeeripes!!! what do you expect him to say? that he would never again throw in the direction of a poor cornerback? it was a STUPID media question that didn’t even deserve an answer!!! 6. unless we can put up an nfl professional quality at least average offensive line don’t look for seeing the potential ever of any qb. of course he deserves critisism. but when a team throws a quality player into the fire with nothing to protect him and expect him to perform like your payton manning it is completely unrealistic. just for sh!($ and grins, have you watched many colts games? do you know how you stop manning? you get in his face and you knock him down. you bring people from every direction and blitz the hell out of him and guess what? HE looks like crap too. i have SEEN it!!! why do you think that is? why do you think cutler should be somehow better than the golden boy manning when he is getting his #!%^ knocked in the dirt every single play??? if anybody, and i mean ANYBODY thinks manning could cope with the offensive line and the blocking cutler gets from our TE’s and RB’s and still end up in the pro-bowl they are delusional!!!!!!!!!!!! if you are expecting miracles and manna from heaven to drop down on soldier field this season you are going to be one unhappy frustrated person. it is not going to get much *better and has all the ingredients to be a complete catastrophie. this offensive line is just plain bad. it is not neccessarily the coaching or the scheme or anything else. they just don’t have the talent and no matter how you want something better to happen it just isn’t going to. *at best like i have stated in the past, you may, with a lot of luck, get 1 or 2 of these linemen to improve as the season goes on and dumbing down the offensive scheme ‘may’ help some but most are not pro talented players or way past their prime at this time and probably never will be better than what you see. put it this way... name any player on the offensive line that another team would give up a draft pick for and how high. that should be the yardstick for the real quality of this squad.

i guess i don’t understand all the flak over cutler. i REALLY don’t understand all the “if only we had orton” posts or, gasp, the if we only gave rex grossman a chance supporters who i actually have heard on the radio. orton’s ceiling is being a good qb and on a few very special days better than that. so please, lets be real about his potential. i refuse to even waste a comment on grossman if anyone really is in that corner. cutler is/was light years ahead of either of those qb’s and in reality is probably the best qb talent prospect we have ever had in chicago for 60 years. but people need a reality check with not only what this guy is and what he can do but what he can do it with. he is what 99% of bear fans have been crying for since mcmahon was cut loose and absolutely since brett favre showed up in green bay. he is a high wire act who does throw a lot of picks (sound familiar) but has the capability of still winning doing so. that is the definition of the so-called gunslinger qb. now everyone is confused and surprised at what they are seeing??? onward... 90% of a qb’s play is MENTAL. this guy has been sacked and hit more times in the last 22 games than probably in his entire life. there is not a single area on our offensive line that can stop ANYONE!!! that means there is no confidence on any play that he can feel comfortable that he won’t get hit from the front (even by his own lineman being shoved back 10 yards for a sack), behind or sideways either causing death, injury or at the least a fumble. there is no pocket, there is no reasonably safe area for him to set up to make his reads or MAKE A PLAY and even when there is, the clock that works in good qb’s head is spinning out of control. so get used to what you are seeing people because there is nothing that any coach on this team can do to get the lack of talent on this teams offensive line to play better (no matter how hard you whip a mule he ‘aint’ going to win a kentucky derby). EDIT also the lack of ANY experienced QUALITY receivers doesn't help this mess at all. to try and get on the same page with these types of receivers behind this offensive line is plain and simply ludicrous!!!!!! every bit of this goes right onto jerry angelo and moreso on TED PHILIPPS for letting angelo run the talent on this franchise into the grand canyon through his abysmal drafts. without at least an average offensive line it wouldn’t matter if we had payton manning, joe montana or johnny unitis as qb. cutler maybe will never be on the level of those guys but he CERTAINLY has the abilities to be a very good to great qb in the nfl if we don’t/haven’t destroyed him.