Lucky Luciano

yes it appears to have been merged. whether all the posts are there or not i don't know. it also is put in a huge thread that may or may not even make sense in regards to my new thread post. also nobody ever said a word about it.

i'm sorry but i don't. it involved rodriguez in the title and a fourth round pick. i don't start many threads on this site and the only one in recent history was the pre-draft info post. so not a lot of posts.

well, there were about 3 or 4 people who had commented in that thread not to mention all my replies. ask alaskan grizzly or Dabears sox. so unless an evan rodriguez titled post is somehow invisible on my computer it has been deleted by someone with admin authorization.

i started a post/thread about our 4th round draft pick and expressed my dissatisfaction over it. there were no untruths and no blasphemy. it's now gone. why?

or am i missing something?

would you have drafted a fullback in round four with all the needs that are REAL on this team considering we have a good blocking FB in clutts and this guy is a weak blocker and small? if expressing my great displeasure with a wasted pick this high when we have passed up multiple chances to add excellent to very good players on our offensive line is piling on then so be it, i am going to pile on until i hear his bones crack. it doesn't matter one iota how this player turns out. he was drafted way to early at a position of strength when we have multiple needs to even become average at many positions. as far as your "war room" reference: i guess you STILL believe angelo was the savior of this franchise because HE was in the war room and we dumb fans have no business contradicting any of his moves and picks? right? LOL!!!

BS?? yea this guy is a PEACH!! so, who wouldn't want a character guy like this at a position you don't need to fill in the 4th round? where is your "knowledge" to repute this coming from? EDIT.. ok i read your post of more research while i was typing the above. but still... this was a bad pick.

you can't be serious. "He was not going to last much longer"?? who drafts a project, knucklehead, small school fullback with SERIOUS off-field issues in the 4th round of the NFL draft? ANSWER: only the chicago bears

1. that is correct, we "don't have an offense that has played a game under Tice". neither has anyone else. *tice is such an unknown that we actually were looking to double up our OC position to a passing OC and a running OC before emery showed up. 2. his size is 6' 1 1/2", so much for size. he doesn't even project to be an nfl tight end but an H-back or fullback. he is listed as the 7th best TE (with those measurables i listed above) in Pro Football Draft Guide. 3. i'm sorry, but with those real off-field issues and that he played at temple after getting kicked out of a major school and will play in specialized downs makes this an al davis, at his worst, senile pick. this guy would not have been drafted before the 7th round and that is being generous. i say he would have easily been a walk-on undrafted player. to WASTE 4th round pick while we have so many real problems and issues on this team is inexcusable. 4. i really have been biting my fingers since this draft started. we pick a DE or LB or whatever the hell he is who is not even close to being the top 3 in this draft and left the best offensive guard and the 2nd best offensive LT who is projected as a great up and coming player on the board to do it. i can live with this pick if he shows me something though in my opinion it was DUMB. 2nd round? fine i had some hope. 3rd round? again i am scratching my head why we picked an injured safety player on a safety glutted team when again we are destitute at the OL position that is key to keep our franchise qb alive. THIS would have been the good 4th round pick and in all truth probably would have still been there when we picked in the 4th. 4th round? good god, a FB, H-back, TE??? we needed this pick here like we needed to draft another qb or running back. it was a stupid wasted pick and i don't give a good s%!+ what this guy turns out like, it was a terrible choice and makes me wonder which GM we have had is the worst. *quite frankly i am getting real tired of hearing how tice is the golden boy of coaching the offensive line. please tell me, who has he made better? we have one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL and where have we seen a player who you can say... WOW, he really made him better. him AND marrinelli (sp) in my opinion are so over-rated it's ridiculous. neither has done squat.

FIRST... we don't HAVE the new england patriots offense. we have an offense ranked in the bottom 10 of the NFL!!! if anyone thinks even a good tight end (let alone this head case walk-on) will make us a superbowl contender this season please step up and say so.

"Impression: Rodriguez isn't a guy who's going to get drafted high. However, he's got the potential to fill a number of roles on an NFL offense in both the run and pass game, can create some mismatches as a pass catcher and develop into a core special teams guy early on." so we drafted a headcase special team player who we had absolutely no need for on our roster in the 4th round while our offensive line looks like fema will be called in mid-season.

per ProFootball Weekly Draft 2012: great, we drafted a problem player at a position we don't need in the FOURTH ROUND!!! didn't we just sign our TE davis and our FB in clutts? this is maybe the dumbest 4th round pick we have made in decades. good job emery.

sounds right to me. if i were emery though this is how my draft would be... 1. if any of the LT's look like a real solid good prospect i feel that cutlers health is worth what i have to give up to get that guy. 2. with those same parameters if no LT looks like the real deal i would then look at that G decastro? and draft a super high quality guard at 19 for the same reasons, cutlers health is paramount. it opens up our interior OL to be much, much better not only now but for our future as well. it gives us a high quality interior guard, makes competition at the other guard position that much better between garza, chris williams or anyone else on our roster. it also makes our center position stronger by making the competition between garza and spencer that much more intense. now we can actually move one of our guards out to the tackle position, c. williams, if he is better than webb and not be hamstrung at guard position. same holds true if we moved carimi to LT. 3. if a killer center is there i would very strongly consider drafting him there. this improves our interior OL again by a huge factor. it moves garza out to compete with spencer, lance louis or c. williams at guard and is a cornerstone between our franchise qb for his entire career in chicago by keeping the pocket solid up the middle. 4. i would draft a CB. if fitzpatrick looks like he could play man up on the LOS i take him. if another at that quality when we pick is there and is a better choice for man coverage take him. this makes our entire defense better including our DT's and DE's by covering man in the zone between our safeties.

thanks. i'm not the sharpest tool in the drawer when it comes to math. the 10% i used was for the total drafting in picks 1-20. i hope that was right? but the other percentage you stated sounds very much like another reason to move up if possible.

i thought of this when compiling this data but the message boards do not (to my knowledge) allow for excel data base files to be posted. so i had to do it the old fashion way. thanks.

i agree that many players not listed have had good to great careers but still are not considered in the elite category except maybe by their franchises fans. i can only go with the stats that i am able to put together as a whole through general consensus by designating them pro-bowl or all-pro accolades. i would really have no idea what most of the teams players throughout the decades would be worthy of as i have never followed them that closely and quite frankly i seriously doubt anyone could do so. there also will always be the wildcard walk-on type of player, unitis, like i stated in an earlier post but i am only taking this to the general rule of percentages. thanks for your comments.

there are many factors involved on the results of which teams do well. the quality of the GM, or player evaluators, come draft day along with coaching do play a limited role somewhat. that also comes into the realm of who your key players are and the quality they possess. example: tom brady a future HOF quarterback and drew bledsoe a very good franchise quarterback certainly have a lot to do with where the pats have drafted over this period of time. also the pats have traded players and moved down in the drafts using a shotgun approach for quality in the first three rounds (unlike angelo who seemed to love getting 6th and 7th round picks by trading down and having the pleasure of cutting them after training camp). not needing the top priorities like QB, LT or DE for so long lets him draft players in less critical positions at a higher rate giving him a better shot at getting quality in these type of players. i don't see angelo as having done even remotely well drafting all-pro players. here is the list of bear all-pro starters since he arrived in 2001... olin kreutz julius peppers brian urlacher LANCE BRIGGS mike brown the only one he drafted was lance briggs. NOTE: i don't consider drafting special teams players in this list to be of any importance.

i do realize the possible limitations using those as yardsticks but it is the only way other than the HOF that i have found to really judge NFL players careers and how they turned out. 10 year + draft strategies: i do realize that there have been improvements over the decades on possible data produced both medically and in a football sense. the combine is a new feature and yes, the internet and computers have changed some information in the process of evaluation. you also have to take into account the number of current franchise changes over the years but i wanted to give as big a body of information as possible to judge by. just 'one' of the reasons i went with the first 20 picks in round one was due to the fact that the amount of new franchises now in the NFL changes the picks below that drastically. so in the first 20 picks you should still have the best 20 players that would have been drafted even with the franchise additions. for instance, in 1979 even with the new tampa bay bucs added franchise there were only 28 teams in the NFL. today there are 32. that may not seem like a lot of additions but when you add just 4 more teams to the draft equation there are literally 208 less quality players in the NFL in a 7 round draft. that is a HUGE amount of talent drain and just one reason they are scouring smaller schools and conferences for talent today. there is just so much talent to go around so what you are getting today is a watered down version of quality play in the NFL that some of the younger fans have never seen before. your last statements: i agree. the higher the pick the better the quality usually. there is and always has been that exception to the rule when lower round players or even walk-ons, johnny unitis comes to mind, are factored in. but the percentages just are not there compared to the higher picked players especially in the 1st round.

i didn't always list all the players who had only 1 pro-bowl or just 1 all-pro award during their careers. cutler was listed as a pro-bowl player in 2008 but i just didn't list it as he had only one award. i agree it would be interesting to see round by round how these stats break down. it would be a major undertaking that i or someone else may take in the future.

below are some statistics i compiled for the old board about 8 years ago and i have updated the information to date, pre-draft 2012. it lists all players drafted in slots 1-20 in the first round and how they compare to obtaining a quality player drafting in these slots. feel free if you wish to copy this information for your own records but please acknowledge where you got them from as it was an incredible amount of work putting this together. thanks, Lucky Luciano my conclusions after looking at the statistics below i know i am not so sure i wouldn't consider trading up EVERY year into the top 10 if you want the odds on your side with selecting a quality player. below are some interesting facts: 1) over a 29 year period there were 580 picks in slots 1-20 2) 134 were quality picks in slots 1-10 or 23% of the players picked 3) 77 were quality picks in slots 11-20 or 13% of the players picked 4) that makes it a 10% better chance to land a better player in slots 1-10 than 11-20 in the first round. the data below reads as follows: YEAR - NUMBER OF PLAYERS FROM PICKS 1-10 - NUMBER OF PLAYERS FROM PICKS 11-20 1979 - 6 - 1 1980 - 5 - 3 1981 - 7 - 2 1982 - 5 - 2 1983 - 8 - 2 1984 - 3 - 3 * 1985 - 7 - 2 1986 - 4 - 1 1987 - 5 - 1 1988 - 6 - 7 ** 1989 - 4 - 1 1990 - 4 - 3 1991 - 3 - 0 1992 - 3 - 3 * 1993 - 5 - 1 1994 - 5 - 4 1995 - 4 - 5 ** 1996 - 5 - 2 1997 - 5 - 3 1998 - 2 - 3 ** 1999 - 7 - 2 2000 - 4 - 6 ** 2001 - 5 - 3 2002 - 3 - 3 * 2003 - 7 - 2 2004 - 5 - 4 2005 - 1 - 4 ** 2006 - 3 - 2 2007 - 3 - 2 TOTAL 134 - 77 21 out of 29 times there were MORE quality players selected 1-10 than in slots 11-20. *3 times they were even **only 5 times in 29 years were there more pro bowl/all-pro players picked in slots 11-20. i used data for 29 years from 1979 to 2007 inclusive. i did not go further than 2007 as the time frame would be not be long enough to determine any significant figures. over time some of these figures will change and have to be adjusted. i also am using figures from picks 1-20 in the first round only to determine the value of drafting in the top 10 as compared to picking in the next 10 slots. although i haven't tallied up the differences in slots 21-32 i believe the numbers would be considerably lower. anyone who feels like doing the work is welcome to dispute that statement. i went through an incredible amount of data to get these stats. all data was figured from players who had at LEAST two forms of award. EXAMPLE.. a player that had 1 pro bowl and 1 all-pro made the list, a player that was selected for 2 pro-bowls made the list, a player who was selected as all-pro (or all-nfl) twice made the list, and multiples of the above. im no math expert by any means and if anyone see's any errors post them and/or i will post the players along with data. any who want can do the math on their own as it is possible i missed someone or added one by mistake. if you find any that dont jive let me know. =========== listed below are the players that i used for the stats above from 1979 - 2007. how long did this take to compile this data you ask? days! ap = ALL-PRO pb = PRO BOWL >> 1979 - 6 - 1 - top 5 = 3 >> 1 Tom Cousineau Bills LB Ohio State - 2 ap >> 2 Mike Bell Chiefs DE Colorado State 3 Jack Thompson Bengals QB Washington State >> 4 Dan Hampton Bears DT Arkansas - 4 pb - 1 ap >> 5 Jerry Butler Bills WR Clemson - 1 pb - 1 ap 6 Barry Krauss Colts LB Alabama >> 7 Phil Simms Giants QB Morehead State - 2 pb - 1 ap >> 8 Ottis Anderson Cardinals RB Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 2 ap 9 Al Harris Bears DE Arizona State >> 10 Keith Dorney Lions T Penn State - 1 pb - 2 ap -------------------------------------------------- 11 Russell Erxleben Saints K Texas 12 Charles Alexander Bengals RB LSU >> 13 Kellen Winslow Chargers TE Missouri - 5 pb - 3 ap 14 Marty Lyons Jets DE Alabama 15 Eddie Lee Ivery Packers RB Georgia Tech 16 Ted Brown Vikings RB North Carolina State 17 Don Smith Falcons DE Miami (FL) - 1 ap 18 Manu Tuiasosopo Seahawks DT UCLA 19 George Andrews Rams LB Nebraska 20 Willis Adams Browns WR Houston ======================================= 1980 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 2 >> 1 Billy Sims Lions RB Oklahoma - 2 pb - 2 ap 2 Lam Jones Jets WR Texas >> 3 Anthony Munoz Bengals T USC - 10 pb - 11 ap 4 Bruce Clark Packers DT Penn State - 1 pb 5 Curtis Dickey Colts RB Texas A&M 6 Curtis Greer Cardinals DE Michigan - 1 ap >> 7 Junior Miller Falcons TE Nebraska - 2 pb >> 8 Mark Haynes Giants DB Colorado - 3pb - 5 ap 9 Doug Martin Vikings DT Washington >> 10 Jacob Green Seahawks DE Texas A&M- 2ap - 4 ap -------------------------------------------- 11 Brad Budde Chiefs G USC 12 Stan Brock Saints T Colorado 13 Earl Cooper 49ers RB Rice 14 Roland James Patriots DB Tennessee - 1 ap 15 Marc Wilson Raiders QB Brigham Young >> 16 Jim Ritcher Bills C North Carolina State - 2 pb - 2 ap 17 Johnnie Johnson Rams DB Texas - 1 ap >> 18 Art Monk Redskins WR Syracuse - 3 pb - 3 ap >> 19 Otis Wilson Bears LB Louisville - 1 pb - 2 ap 20 Jim Stuckey 49ers DT Clemson ===================================================== 1981 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 5 >> 1 George Rogers Saints RB South Carolina - 2 pb - 2 ap >> 2 Lawrence Taylor Giants LB North Carolina - 10 pb - 8 ap >> 3 Freeman McNeil Jets RB UCLA - 3 pb - 3 ap >> 4 Kenny Easley Seahawks DB UCLA - 5 pb - 5 ap >> 5 E.J. Junior Cardinals LB Alabama - 2 pb - 2 ap 6 Rich Campbell Packers QB California >> 7 Hugh Green Buccaneers LB Pittsburgh - 2 pb - 2 ap >> 8 Ronnie Lott 49ers DB USC - 10 pb - 6 ap 9 Mel Owens Rams LB Michigan 10 David Verser Bengals WR Kansas ----------------------------------------------------- 11 Keith Van Horne Bears T USC 12 Randy McMillan Colts RB Pittsburgh 13 David Overstreet Dolphins RB Oklahoma 14 Willie Scott Chiefs TE South Carolina >> 15 Dennis Smith Broncos DB USC - 6 pb 16 Mark Nichols Lions WR San Jose State 17 Keith Gary Steelers DE Oklahoma 18 Donnell Thompson Colts DT North Carolina >> 19 Brian Holloway Patriots T Stanford - 3 pb - 3 ap 20 Mark May Redskins T Pittsburgh - 1 ap ============================================ 1982 - 5 - 2 - top 5 = 2 1 Kenneth Sims Patriots DT Texas 2 Johnie Cooks Colts LB Mississippi State >> 3 Chip Banks Browns LB USC - 4 pb - 4 ap 4 Art Schlichter Colts QB Ohio State >> 5 Jim McMahon Bears QB Brigham Young - 1 pb - 1 ap 6 Jeff Bryant Seahawks DE Clemson - 1 ap 7 Darrin Nelson Vikings RB Stanford >> 8 Mike Munchak Oilers G Penn State - 9 pb - 2 ap >> 9 Gerald Riggs Falcons RB Arizona State - 3 pb - 2 ap >> 10 Marcus Allen Raiders RB USC - 5 pb - 2 ap -------------------------------------------- 11 Anthony Hancock Chiefs WR Tennessee 12 Walter Abercrombie Steelers RB Baylor 13 Lindsay Scott Saints WR Georgia 14 Barry Redden Rams RB Richmond 15 Jimmy Williams Lions LB Nebraska >> 16 Luis Sharpe Cardinals T UCLA - 3 pb - 4 ap 17 Sean Farrell Buccaneers G Penn State - 1 ap 18 Butch Woolfork Giants RB Michigan 19 Perry Tuttle Bills WR Clemson >> 20 Mike Quick Eagles WR North Carolina State - 5 pb - 4 ap ==================================== 1983 - 8 - 2 - top 5 = 5 >> 1 John Elway Colts QB Stanford - 9 pb >> 2 Eric Dickerson Rams RB SMU - 5 pb - 4 ap >> 3 Curt Warner Seahawks RB Penn State - 3 pb - 4 ap >> 4 Chris Hinton Broncos T Northwestern - 7 pb - 1 ap >> 5 Billy Ray Smith Chargers LB Arkansas - 3 ap >> 6 Jimbo Covert Bears T Pittsburgh - 2 pb - 2 ap 7 Todd Blackledge Chiefs QB Penn State 8 Michael Haddix Eagles RB Mississippi State >> 9 Bruce Matthews Oilers G USC - 14 pb - 7 ap >> 10 Terry Kinard Giants DB Clemson - 1 pb - 1 ap -------------------------------------------- 11 Tim Lewis Packers DB Pittsburgh - 1 ap 12 Tony Hunter Bills TE Notre Dame 13 James Jones Lions RB Florida - >> 14 Jim Kelly Bills QB Miami (FL) 5 pb - 1 ap 15 Tony Eason Patriots QB Illinois 16 Mike Pitts Falcons DE Alabama 17 Leonard Smith Cardinals DB McNeese State 1 ap 18 Willie Gualt Bears WR Tennessee >> 19 Joey Browner Vikings DB USC - 6 pb - 5 ap 20 Gary Anderson Chargers RB Arkansas - 1 pb ================================ 1984 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 3 >> 1 Irving Fryar Patriots WR Nebraska - 5 pb - 1 ap 2 Dean Steinkuhler Oilers T Nebraska >> 3 Carl Banks Giants LB Michigan State - 1 pb - 1 ap 4 Kenny Jackson Eagles WR Penn State >> 5 Bill Maas Chiefs DT Pittsburgh - 2 ap 6 Mossy Cade Chargers DB Texas 7 Ricky Hunley Bengals LB Arizona 8 Leonard Coleman Colts DB Vanderbilt 9 Rick Bryan Falcons DT Oklahoma - 1 ap 10 Russell Carter Jets DB SMU -------------------------------------- >> 11 Wilber Marshall Bears LB Florida - 3 pb - 2 ap 12 Alphonso Carreker Packers DE Florida State >> 13 Keith Millard Vikings DE Washington State - 2 pb - 4 ap 14 Jackie Shipp Dolphins LB Oklahoma 15 Ron Faurot Jets DE Arkansas 16 Pete Koch Bengals DE Maryland 17 Clyde Duncan Cardinals WR Tennessee 18 Don Rogers Browns DB UCLA >> 19 Ron Solt Colts G Maryland - 1 pb - 1 ap 20 David Lewis Lions TE California ========================================== 1985 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 5 >> 1 Bruce Smith Bills DE Virginia Tech 11 pb - 8 ap >> 2 Bill Fralic Falcons T Pittsburgh - 4 pb - 3 ap >> 3 Ray Childress Oilers DE Texas A&M - 5 pb - 6 ap >> 4 Chris Doleman Vikings DE Pittsburgh - 8 pb - 4 ap >> 5 Duane Bickett Colts LB USC - 1 pb - 2 ap >> 6 Lomas Brown Lions T Florida - 7 pb - 6 ap 7 Ken Ruettgers Packers T USC 8 Ron Holmes Buccaneers DE Washington 9 Kevin Allen Eagles T Indiana >> 10 Al Toon Jets WR Wisconsin - 3 pb - 3 ap -------------------------------------------- 11 Richard Johnson Oilers DB Wisconsin >> 12 Jim Lachey Chargers T Ohio State - 3 pb - 5 ap 13 Eddie Brown Bengals WR Miami (FL) - 1 ap 14 Derrick Burroughs Bills DB Memphis State 15 Ethan Horton Chiefs RB North Carolina >> 16 Jerry Rice 49ers WR Mississippi Valley State - 13 pb - 10 ap 17 Kevin Brooks Cowboys DE Michigan 18 Freddie Joe Nunn Cardinals DE Mississippi 19 George Adams Giants RB Kentucky 20 Darryl Sims Steelers DE Wisconsin ======================================= 1986 - 4 - 1 - top 5 = 2 >> 1 Bo Jackson Buccaneers RB Auburn - 1 pb - 2 ap 2 Tony Casillas Falcons DT Oklahoma - 1 ap >> 3 Jim Everett Oilers QB Purdue - 1 pb - 2 ap 4 Jon Hand Colts DE Alabama 5 Anthony Bell Cardinals LB Michigan State 6 Jim Dombrowski Saints T Virginia 7 Brian Jozwiak Chiefs T West Virginia >> 8 Leslie O'Neal Chargers DE Oklahoma State - 6 pb 9 John Rienstra Steelers G Temple >> 10 Keith Byars Eagles RB Ohio State - 1 pb - 1 ap ------------------------------------ 11 Joe Kelly Bengals LB Washington 12 Chuck Long Lions QB Iowa 13 James Fitzpatrick Chargers T USC 14 Gerald Robinson Vikings DE Auburn 15 John L. Williams Seahawks RB Florida 16 Ronnie Harmon Bills RB Iowa - 1 pb 17 Tim Green Falcons LB Syracuse 18 Mike Sherrard Cowboys WR UCLA 19 Eric Dorsey Giants DE Notre Dame >> 20 Will Wolford Bills T Vanderbilt - 3 pb - 2 ap ================================= 1987 - 5 - 1 - top 5 = 2 >> 1 Vinny Testaverde Buccaneers QB Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 1 ap >> 2 Cornelius Bennett Colts LB Alabama - 5 pb - 1 ap 3 Alonzo Highsmith Oilers RB Miami (FL) 4 Brent Fullwood Packers RB Auburn - 1 pb 5 Mike Junkin Browns LB Duke 6 Kelly Stouffer Cardinals QB Colorado State 7 Reggie Rogers Lions DE Washington >> 8 Shane Conlan Bills LB Penn State - 3 pb - 3 ap >> 9 Jerome Brown Eagles DT Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 3 ap >> 10 Rod Woodson Steelers DB Purdue 11 pb - 6 ap ------------------------------------------------------ 11 Shawn Knight Saints DT Brigham Young 12 Danny Noonan Cowboys DT Nebraska 13 Chris Miller Falcons QB Oregon - 1 pb 14 D.J. Dozier Vikings RB Penn State 15 John Clay Raiders T Missouri 16 John Bosa Dolphins DE Boston College 17 Jason Buck Bengals DE Brigham Young 18 Tony Woods Seahawks LB Pittsburgh 19 Paul Palmer Chiefs RB Temple >> 20 Haywood Jeffires Oilers WR North Carolina State - 3 pb - 2 ap ========================================= 1988 - 6 - 7 - top 5 = 3 1 Aundray Bruce Falcons LB Auburn - >> 2 Neil Smith Chiefs DE Nebraska - 6 pb - 6 ap >> 3 Bennie Blades Lions DB Miami (FL) - 1 pb - 3 ap >> 4 Paul Gruber Buccaneers T Wisconsin - 3 ap 5 Rickey Dixon Bengals DB Oklahoma >> 6 Tim Brown Raiders WR Notre Dame - 7 + - ap + >> 7 Sterling Sharpe Packers WR South Carolina - 5 pb - 5 ap 8 Dave Cadigan Jets T USC - >> 9 Terry McDaniel Raiders DB Tennessee - 5 pb - 2 ap 10 Eric Moore Giants T Indiana ------------------------------------- >> 11 Michael Irvin Cowboys WR Miami (FL) - + pb - + ap >> 12 Ken Harvey Cardinals LB California - + pb - + ap >> 13 Keith Jackson Eagles TE Oklahoma - 5 pb - 4 ap >> 14 Gaston Green Rams RB UCLA - 1 pb - 1 ap >> 15 Anthony Miller Chargers WR Tennessee - 5 pb - 3 ap 16 Eric Kumerow Dolphins DE Ohio State >> 17 John Stephens Patriots RB NW Louisiana - 1 pb - 1 ap 18 Aaron Jones Steelers DE Eastern Kentucky - >> 19 Randall McDaniel Vikings G Arizona State - 12 pb - 7 ap 20 Aaron Cox Rams WR Arizona State ================================================= 1989 - 4 -1 - top 5 = 4 >> 1 Troy Aikman Cowboys QB UCLA - 6 pb 2 Tony Mandarich Packers T Michigan State >> 3 Barry Sanders Lions RB Oklahoma State - 10 pb - 5 ap >> 4 Derrick Thomas Chiefs LB Alabama - 9 pb - 2 ap >> 5 Deion Snaders Falcons DB Florida State 8 pb - 6 ap 6 Broderick Thomas Buccaneers LB Nebraska 7 Tim Worley Steelers RB Georgia 8 Burt Grossman Chargers DE Pittsburgh 9 Sammie Smith Dolphins RB Florida State 10 Eric Hill Cardinals LB LSU --------------------------------------------- 11 Donnell Woolford Bears DB Clemson - 1 pb 12 Trace Armstrong Bears DE Florida 1 pb 13 Eric Metcalf Browns RB Texas 14 Jeff Lageman Jets LB Virginia - 1 ap 15 Andy Heck Seahawks T Notre Dame - 1 ap 16 Hart Lee Dykes Patriots WR Oklahoma State 17 Joe Wolf Cardinals G Boston College 18 Brian Williams Giants C Minnesota 19 Wayne Martin Saints DE Arkansas - 1 pb >> 20 Steve Atwater Broncos DB Arkansas - 8 pb - + ap ========================================= 1990 - 4 - 3 - top 5 = 2 1 Jeff George Colts QB Illinois 2 Blair Thomas Jets RB Penn State >> 3 Cortez Kennedy Seahawks DT Miami (FL) - 7 pb - 6 ap 4 Keith McCants Buccaneers LB Alabama >> 5 Junior Seau Chargers LB USC - 12 pb - 6 ap >> 6 Mark Carrier Bears DB USC - 3 pb - 3 ap 7 Andre Ware Lions QB Houston 8 Chris Singleton Patriots LB Arizona >> 9 Richmond Webb Dolphins T Texas A&M - 7 pb - 3 ap 10 Ray Agnew Patriots DE North Carolina State - -------------------------------------------- 11 Anthony Smith Raiders DE Arizona 12 James Francis Bengals LB Baylor 13 Percy Snow Chiefs LB Michigan State >> 14 Renaldo Turnbull Saints DE West Virginia - 1 pb - 1 ap >> 15 Lamar Lathon Oilers LB Houston - 1 pb - 1 ap 16 James Williams Bills DB Fresno State >> 17 Emmitt Smith Cowboys RB Florida 8 pb - 4 ap 18 Tony Bennett Packers LB Mississippi 19 Darrell Thompson Packers RB Minnesota 20 Steve Broussard Falcons RB Washington State ============================================== 1991 - 3 - 0 - top 5 = 1 1 Russell Maryland Cowboys DT Miami (FL) - 1 pb >> 2 Eric Turner Browns DB UCLA - 2 pb - 1 ap 3 Bruce Pickens Falcons DB Nebraska 4 Mike Croel Broncos LB Nebraska 5 Todd Lyght Rams DB Notre Dame - 1 pb >> 6 Eric Swann Cardinals DE None - 2 pb - 2 ap 7 Charles McRae Buccaneers T Tennessee 8 Antone Davis Eagles T Tennessee 9 Stanley Richard Chargers DB Texas >> 10 Herman Moore Lions WR Virginia - 4 pb - 3 ap --------------------------------------- 11 Pat Harlow Patriots T USC 12 Alvin Harper Cowboys WR Tennessee 13 Mike Pritchard Falcons WR Colorado 14 Leonard Russell Patriots RB Arizona State 15 Huey Richardson Steelers LB Florida 16 Dan McGwire Seahawks QB San Diego State 17 Bobby Wilson Redskins DT Michigan State 18 Alfred Williams Bengals LB Colorado 19 Vinnie Clark Packers DB Ohio State 20 Kelvin Pritchett Cowboys DT Mississippi ================================================ 1992 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 1 1 Steve Emtman Colts DT Washington 2 Quentin Coryatt Colts LB Texas A&M >> 3 Sean Gilbert Rams DT Pittsburgh - 1 pb - 1 ap 4 Desmond Howard Redskins WR Michigan 5 Terrell Buckley Packers DB Florida State - 1 ap 6 David Klingler Bengals QB Houston >> 7 Troy Vincent Dolphins DB Wisconsin - 5 pb - 1 ap >> 8 Bob Whitfield Falcons T Stanford - 1 pb - 1 ap 9 Tommy Vardell Browns RB Stanford 10 Ray Roberts Seahawks T Virginia ------------------------------------------ 11 Leon Searcy Steelers T Miami (FL) - 1 pb >> 12 Marco Coleman Dolphins DE Georgia Tech - 2 pb 13 Eugene Chung Patriots T Virginia Tech 14 Derek Brown Giants TE Notre Dame 15 Johnny Mitchell Jets TE Nebraska >> 16 Chester McGlockton Raiders DT Clemson - 4 pb - + ap 17 Kevin Smith Cowboys DB Texas A&M - 1 ap 18 Dana Hall 49ers DB Washington - 19 Troy Smith Falcons RB Southern Mississippi >> 20 Dale Carter Chiefs DB Tennessee - 4 pb - 4 ap ========================================== 1993 - 5 - 1 - top 5 = 2 >> 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots QB Washington State - 4 pb 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks QB Notre Dame >> 3 Garrison Hearst Cardinals RB Georgia 2 pb 4 Marvin Jones Jets LB Florida State 5 John Copeland Bengals DE Alabama 6 Eric Curry Buccaneers DE Alabama 7 Curtis Conway Bears WR USC >> 8 William Roaf Saints T Louisiana Tech - 11 pb - 3 ap >>9 Lincoln Kennedy Falcons T Washington - 3 pb - 1 ap >> 10 Jerome Bettis Rams RB Notre Dame - 6 pb - 2 ap ------------------------------------- 11 Dan Williams Broncos DE Toledo 12 Patrick Bates Raiders DB Texas A&M >>13 Brad Hopkins Oilers T Illinois - 2 pb 14 Steve Everitt Browns C Michigan 15 Wayne Simmons Packers LB Clemson 16 Sean Dawkins Colts WR California 17 Tom Carter Redskins DB Notre Dame 18 Ernest Dye Cardinals T South Carolina 19 Lester Holmes Eagles G Jackson State 20 Irv Smith Saints TE Notre Dame ==================================== 1994 - 5 - 4 - top 5 = 2 1 Dan Wilkinson Bengals DT Ohio State >> 2 Marshall Faulk Colts RB San Diego State 7 pb - 3 ap 3 Heath Shuler Redskins QB Tennessee >>4 Willie McGinest Patriots DE USC - 2 pb 5 Trev Alberts Colts LB Nebraska 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers QB Fresno State - 1 pb >> 7 Bryant Young 49ers DT Notre Dame - 4 pb - 1 ap >> 8 Sam Adams Seahawks DT Texas A&M - 3 pb 9 Antonio Langham Browns DB Alabama >> 10 Jamir Miller Cardinals LB UCLA - 1 pb - 1 ap --------------------------------- 11 John Thierry Bears DE Alcorn State >> 12 Aaron Glenn Jets DB Texas A&M - 3 pb >> 13 Joe Johnson Saints DE Louisville 2 pb 14 Bernard Williams Eagles T Georgia 15 Wayne Gandy Rams T Auburn 16 Aaron Taylor Packers T Notre Dame 17 Charles Johnson Steelers WR Colorado 18 DeWayne Washington Vikings DB North Carolina State >> 19 Todd Steussie Vikings T California - 2 pb >> 20 Tim Bowens Dolphins DT Mississippi 2 pb ========================================= 1995 - 4 - 5 - top 5 = 3 1 Ki-Jana Carter Bengals RB Penn State >> 2 Tony Boselli Jaguars T USC - 5 pb - 3 ap >>3 Steve McNair Oilers QB Alcorn State - 3 pb 4 Michael Westbrook Redskins WR Colorado >>5 Kerry Collins Panthers QB Penn State - 2 pb >> 6 Kevin Carter Rams DE Florida - 2 pb - 1ap 7 Mike Mamula Eagles DE Boston College 8 Joey Galloway Seahawks WR Ohio State 9 Kyle Brady Jets TE Penn State 10 J.J. Stokes 49ers WR UCLA -------------------------------------------- 11 Derrick Alexander Vikings DE Florida State >> 12 Warren Sapp Buccaneers DT Miami (FL) - 7 pb - 4 ap >>13 Mark Fields Saints LB Washington State - 2 pb >> 14 Reuben Brown Bills G Pittsburgh - 9 pb 15 Ellis Johnson Colts DT Florida >> 16 Hugh Douglas Jets DE Central State (OH) - 3 pb - 1 ap 17 Tyrone Wheatley Giants RB Michigan 18 Napoleon Kaufman Raiders RB Washington 19 James Stewart Jaguars RB Tennessee >> 20 Luther Elliss Lions DE Utah - 2 pb ========================================== 1996 - 5 - 2 - top 5 = 4 >> 1 Keyshawn Johnson Jets WR USC - 3 pb >> 2 Kevin Hardy Jaguars LB Illinois - 1 pb - 1 ap >> 3 Simeon Rice Cardinals DE Illinois - 3 pb 1 ap >> 4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens T UCLA - 11 pb - 4 ap 5 Cedric Jones Giants DE Oklahoma 6 Lawrence Phillips Rams RB Nebraska 7 Terry Glenn Patriots WR Ohio State - 1 pb 8 Tim Biakabutuka Panthers RB Michigan 9 Rickey Dudley Raiders TE Ohio State >>10 Willie Anderson Bengals T Auburn - 4 pb - 3 ap ----------------------------------------- 11 Alex Molden Saints DB Oregon 12 Regan Upshaw Buccaneers DE California 13 Walt Harris Bears DB Mississippi State >> 14 Eddie George Oilers RB Ohio State - 4 pb - 1 ap 15 John Mobley Broncos LB Kutztown (PA) - 1 ap 16 Duane Clemons Vikings DE California 17 Reggie Brown Lions LB Texas A&M 18 Eddie Kennison Rams WR LSU >> 19 Marvin Harrison Colts WR Syracuse - 8 pb - 3 ap 20 Daryl Gardener Dolphins DT Baylor ============================================== 1997 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 3 >> 1 Orlando Pace Rams T Ohio State - 7 pb - 3 ap >> 2 Darrell Russell Raiders DT USC - 2 pb - 1 ap 3 Shawn Springs Seahawks DB Ohio State - 1 pb >> 4 Peter Boulware Ravens DE Florida State - 4 pb 5 Bryant Westbrook Lions DB Texas >> 6 Walter Jones Seahawks T Florida State - 8 pb - 4 ap 7 Ike Hilliard Giants WR Florida >>8 James Farrior Jets LB Virginia - 2 pb - 1 ap 9 TOM Knight Cards CB Iowa 10 Chris Naeole Saints G Colorado ------------------------------------------ 11 Michael Booker Falcons DB Nebraska >> 12 Warrick Dunn Buccaneers RB Florida State - 3 pb >> 13 Tony Gonzalez Chiefs TE California - 12 pb 5 ap 14 Reinard Wilson Bengals DE Florida State 15 Yatil Green Dolphins WR Miami (FL) 16 Reidel Anthony Buccaneers WR Florida 17 Kenard Lang Redskins DE Miami (FL) 18 Kenny Holmes Oilers DE Miami (FL) >>19 Tarik Glenn Colts T California - 3 pb 20 Dwayne Rudd Vikings LB Alabama ==================================== 1998 - 2 - 3 - top 5 = 2 >> 1 Peyton Manning Colts QB Tennessee - 11 pb - 5 ap 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers QB Washington State 3 Andre Wadsworth Cardinals DE Florida State >> 4 Charles Woodson Raiders DB Michigan - 8 pb - 3 ap 5 Curtis Enis Bears RB Penn State 6 Grant Wistrom Rams DE Nebraska 7 Kyle Turley Saints T San Diego State - 1 ap 8 Greg Ellis Cowboys DE North Carolina 9 Fred Taylor Jaguars RB Florida 10 Duane Starks Ravens DB Miami (FL) -------------------------------------- >> 11 Tra Thomas Eagles T Florida State - 3 pb >> 12 Keith Brooking Falcons LB Georgia Tech - 5 pb >>13 Takeo Spikes Bengals LB Auburn - 2 pb - 1 ap 14 Jason Peter Panthers DT Nebraska 15 Anthony Simmons Seahawks LB Clemson 16 Kevin Dyson Oilers WR Utah 17 Brian Simmons Bengals LB North Carolina 18 Robert Edwards Patriots RB Georgia 19 Vonnie Holliday Packers DT North Carolina 20 Terry Fair Lions DB Tennessee ====================================== 1999 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 3 1 Tim Couch Browns QB Kentucky >>2 Donovan McNabb Eagles QB Syracuse 6 pb 3 Akili Smith Bengals QB Oregon >>4 Edgerrin James Colts RB Miami (FL) - 4 pr - 1 ap >>5 Ricky Williams Saints RB Texas - 1 pb - 1 ap >>6 Torry Holt Rams WR North Carolina State - 7 pb - 1 ap >>7 Champ Bailey Redskins DB Georgia - 11 pb - 3 ap >>8 David Boston Cardinals WR Ohio State - 1 pb - 1 ap 9 Chris Claiborne Lions LB USC >>10 Chris McAlister Ravens DB Arizona - 3 pb - 1 ap ------------------------------------------ >>11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings QB Central Florida 3 pb 12 Cade McNown Bears QB UCLA 13 Troy Edwards Steelers WR Louisiana Tech 14 John Tait Chiefs T Brigham Young 15 Anthony McFarland Buccaneers DT LSU >>16 Jevon Kearse Oilers LB Florida - 3 pb - 1 ap 17 Damien Woody Patriots C Boston College 18 Matt Stinchcomb Raiders T Georgia 19 Luke Petitgout Giants T Notre Dame 20 Ebenezer Ekuban Cowboys DE North Carolina ========================================= 2000 - 4 - 6 - top 5 = 3 1 Courtney Brown Browns DE Penn State >>2 LaVar Arrington Redskins LB Penn State - 3 pb >>3 Chris Samuels Redskins T Alabama - 6 pb 4 Peter Warrick Bengals WR Florida State >>5 Jamal Lewis Ravens RB Tennessee - 1 pb - 1 ap 6 Corey Simon Eagles DT Florida State 7 Thomas Jones Cardinals RB Virginia 8 Plaxico Burress Steelers WR Michigan State >>9 Brian Urlacher Bears LB New Mexico - 8 pb - 4 ap 10 Travis Taylor Ravens WR Florida --------------------------------------- 11 Ron Dayne Giants RB Wisconsin >>12 Shaun Ellis Jets DE Tennessee - 2 pb >>13 John Abraham Jets LB South Carolina - 4 pb - 2 ap >>14 Bubba Franks Packers TE Miami (FL) - 3 pb >>15 Deltha O'Neal Broncos DB California - 2 pb - 1 ap >>16 Julian Peterson 49ers LB Michigan State - 5 pb - 1 ap 17 Sebastian Janikowski Raiders K Florida State 18 Chad Pennington Jets QB Marshall >>19 Shaun Alexander Seahawks RB Alabama - 3 pb - 1 ap 20 Stockar McDougle Lions T Oklahoma ====================================== 2001 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 4 >>1 Michael Vick Falcons QB Virginia Tech - 4 pb >>2 Leonard Davis Cardinals T Texas - 3 pb 3 Gerard Warren Browns DT Florida >>4 Justin Smith Bengals DE Missouri - 3 pb - 1 ap >>5 LaDainian Tomlinson Chargers RB Texas Christian - 5 pb - 3 ap >>6 Richard Seymour Patriots DT Georgia - 7 pb - 3 ap 7 Andre Carter 49ers DE California 8 David Terrell Bears WR Michigan 9 Koren Robinson Seahawks WR North Carolina State 10 Jamal Reynolds Packers DE Florida State ---------------------------------------------- 11 Dan Morgan Panthers LB Miami (FL) 12 Damione Lewis Rams DT Miami (FL) >>13 Marcus Stroud Jaguars DT Georgia - 3 pb 14 Kenyatta Walker Buccaneers T Florida 15 Rod Gardner Redskins WR Clemson 16 Santana Moss Jets WR Miami (FL) >>17 Steve Hutchinson Seahawks G Michigan - 7 pb - 5 ap 18 Jeff Backus Lions T Michigan >>19 Casey Hampton Steelers DT Texas - 5 pb 20 Adam Archuleta Rams DB Arizona State ========================================== 2002 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 1 1 David Carr Texans QB Fresno State >>2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina - 6 pb - 3 ap 3 Joey Harrington Lions QB Oregon 4 Mike Williams Bills T Texas 5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas 6 Ryan Sims Chiefs DT North Carolina 7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL) >>8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma - 5 pb - 1 ap >>9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee - 2 pb 10 Levi Jones Bengals T Arizona State ------------------------------------- >>11 Dwight Freeney Colts LB Syracuse - 7 pb - 3 ap 12 Wendell Bryant Cardinals DT Wisconsin 13 Donte Stallworth Saints WR Tennessee >>14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL) 4 pb - 1 ap >>15 Albert Haynesworth Titans DT Tennessee - 2 pb - 2 ap 16 William Green Browns RB Boston College 17 Phillip Buchanon Raiders DB Miami (FL) 18 T.J. Duckett Falcons RB Michigan State 19 Ashley Lelie Broncos WR Hawaii 20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State ============================================ 2003 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 3 >>1 Carson Palmer Bengles QB USC - 2 pb 2 Charles Rogers Detroit WR Michigan State >>3 Andre Johnson Houston WR Miami (Fla.) - 5 pb - 2 ap 4 Dewayne Robertson NYJ DT Kentucky >>5 Terence Newman Dallas CB Kansas State - 2 pb 6 Johnathan Sullivan Saints DT Georgia 7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars QB Marshall >>8 Jordan Gross Panthers OT Utah - 2 pb - 1 pb >>9 Kevin Williams Vikings DT Oklahoma State - 6 pb - 5 ap >>10 Terrell Suggs Ravens DE Arizona State - 5 pb - 1 ap -------------------------------------------- 11 Marcus Trufant Seahawks CB Washington State 12 Jimmy Kennedy Rams DT Penn State 13 Ty Warren Patriots DT Texas A&M 14 Michale Haynes Bears DE Penn State 15 Jerome McDougle Eagles DE Miami (Fla.) >>16 Troy Polamalu Steelers SS Southern California - 7 pb - 4 ap 17 Bryant Johnson Cards WR Penn State 18 Calvin Pace Cards DE Wake Forest 19 Kyle Boller Ravens QB California 20 George Foster Broncos OT Georgia ==================================================== 2004 - 5 - 4 - top 5 = 4 >>1 Eli Manning Chargers QB Mississippi - 2 pb 2 Robert Gallery Raiders OT Iowa >>3 Larry Fitzgerald Cards WR Pittsburgh - 6 pb - 1 ap >>4 Philip Rivers Giants/Chargers QB North Carolina State - 4 pb >>5 Sean Taylor Redskins DB Miami (FL) - 2 pb 6 Kellen Winslow II Browns (from Detroit) TE Miami (FL) 7 Roy Williams Lions (from Cleveland) WR Texas >>8 DeAngelo Hall Falcons DB Virginia Tech - 3 pb 9 Reggie Williams Jaguars WR Washington 10 Dunta Robinson Texans DB South Carolina -------------------------------------------------- >>11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers QB Miami (OH) - 2 pb >>12 Jonathan Vilma NYJ LB Miami (FL) - 2 pb 13 Lee Evans Bills WR Wisconsin >>14 Tommie Harris Bears DT Oklahoma - 3 pb 15 Michael Clayton Bucs WR LSU >>16 Shawn Andrews Eagles (from San Francisco) OT Arkansas = 2 pb - 1 ap 17 D.J. Williams Broncos (from Cincinnati) LB Miami (FL) 18 Will Smith Saints DE Ohio State 19 Vernon Carey Miami (from Minnesota) OT Miami (FL) 20 Kenechi Udeze Vikings (from Miami) DE USC ================================================ 2005 - 1 - 4 - top 5 = 0 1 Alex Smith Niners QB Utah 2 Ronnie Brown Miami RB Auburn 3 Braylon Edwards Browns WR Michigan 4 Cedric Benson Bears RB Texas 5 Cadillac Williams Bucs RB Auburn 6 Pacman Jones Titans CB West Virginia 7 Troy Williamson Vikings WR South Carolina >>8 Antrel Rolle Cards DB Miami (Fla.) - 2 pb 9 Carlos Rogers Skins DB Auburn 10 Mike Williams Lions WR USC ----------------------------------------------- >>11 DeMarcus Ware Cowboys OLB Troy State - 6 pb - 4 ap >>12 Shawne Merriman Chargers OLB Maryland - 3 pb - 1 ap >>13 Jammal Brown Saints T Oklahoma - 2 pb - 1 ap 14 Thomas Davis Panthers DB Georgia >>15 Derrick Johnson Chiefs OLB Texas - 1 pb - 1 ap 16 Travis Johnson Texans DT Florida State 17 David Pollack Bengals LB Georgia 18 Erasmus James Vikings DE Wisconsin 19 Alex Barron Rams T Florida State 20 Marcus Spears Cowboys DE Louisiana State ==================================================== 2006 - 3 - 2 - top 5 = 3 >>1 Mario Williams Texans DE North Carolina State - 2 pb 2 Reggie Bush Saints RB USC >>3 Vince Young Titans QB Texas - 2 pb >>4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson Jets T Virginia - 3 pb 5 A.J. Hawk Packers OLB Ohio State 6 Vernon Davis Niners TE Maryland 7 Michael Huff Raiders SS Texas 8 Donte Whitner Bills SS Ohio State 9 Ernie Sims Lions OLB Florida State 10 Matt Leinart Cards QB USC ----------------------------------------------------- 11 Jay Cutler Broncos QB Vanderbilt >>12 Haloti Ngata Ravems DT Oregon - 3 pb - 2 ap 13 Kamerion Wimbley Browns OLB Florida State 14 Brodrick Bunkley Eagles DT Florida State 15 Tye Hill Rams CB Clemson 16 Jason Allen Miami DB Tennessee 17 Chad Greenway Vikings LB Iowa 18 Bobby Carpenter Cowboys LB Ohio State >>19 Antonio Cromartie Chargers CB Florida State - 1 pb - 1 ap 20 Tamba Hali Chiefs DE Penn State ==================================================== 2007 - 3 - 2 - top 5 = 2 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders QB Louisiana State >>2 Calvin Johnson Lions WR Georgia Tech - 2 pb - 1 ap >>3 Joe Thomas Browns OT Wisconsin - 5 pb - 3 ap 4 Gaines Adams Bucs DE Clemson 5 Levi Brown Cards OT Penn State 6 LaRon Landry Skins SS Louisiana State >>7 Adrian Peterson Vikings RB Oklahoma - 4 pb - 2 ap 8 Jamaal Anderson Falcons DE Arkansas 9 Ted Ginn Jr. Miami WR Ohio State 10 Amobi Okoye Texans DT Louisville --------------------------------------------------- >>11 Patrick Willis Niners ILB Mississippi - 5 pb - 4 ap 12 Marshawn Lynch Bills RB California 13 Adam Carriker Rams NT Nebraska >>14 Darrelle Revis Jets CB Pittsburgh - 4 pb - 3 ap 15 Lawrence Timmons Steelers LB Florida State 16 Justin Harrell Packers DT Tennessee 17 Jarvis Moss Broncos DE Florida 18 Leon Hall Bengals CB Michigan 19 Michael Griffin Titans FS Texas 20 Aaron Ross Giants CB Texas ==================================================== ==================================================== i dont think anyone (or at least myself) is trying to imply that if you pick in the top 5 or 10 that you are guaranteed a high impact player with that pick. the lists i posted clearly show that. but... i think what it does show is that you have a much better chance at achieving the goal of every organization by picking in these slots than in lower ones. to aquire a franchise player it can't just be determined by money vs. reward risk when you draft. otherwise why even draft at all in the first round? you will end up like the redskins under the former bear dc george allen and even without the the salary cap at that time it just didn't work. drafting high... will you miss sometimes? absolutely! but the old saying if you DON'T try you will NEVER succeed. if teams that draft consistanly in the top 5 spots can afford it every year why can't the bear organization in the few times over decades afford it? i think the fact that this franchise has had TWO quality qb's (one was a free agent) in 40 years speaks volumes of the risk reward consequences. these are some interesting draft stats. below are chicago bear hall of fame players and where they were drafted: HOF 1st round top 10 picks 1. Clyde Bulldog Turner 7th pick 1st round 2. Joe Stydahar 6th pick 1st round 3. Gayle Sayers 4th pick 1st round 4. Walther Payton 4th pick 1st round 5. Dan Hampton 4th pick 1st round 6. George McAfee 2nd pick 1st round (drafted by eagles and immediately traded to bears) 7. Sid Luckman 2nd pick 1st round 8. Mike Ditka 5th pick 1st round 9. George Connor 5th pick 1st round (drafted by ny giants) 10. Dick Butkus 3rd pick 1st round 11. Dan Hampton 4th pick 1st round HOF 1st round picks 11 - + 1. Doug Atkins 11th pick 1st round HOF later rounds 1. Mike Singletary 38th pick 2nd round 3. Bill George 2nd round 2. Stan Jones 5th round 6. Richard Dent 8th round 4. Danny Fortmann 9th round pick 5. George Blanda 12th round HOF not listed as draft picks. prior to 1936 1. Bronco Nagurski 2. George Musso 3. Roy Lyman 4. Bill Hewitt 5. Ed Healey 6. George Halas 7. John Driscol

1. i am not sure what scheme related is referring to. 2. a QB is not like any other position in the nfl. he can't be compared to a franchise RB or MLB. his existence depends upon 5 men to keep him from harms way. if those 5 men fail to do their job you risk injury to the most critically important position in the game along with the health of your entire franchise for years or even decades to come (in the bears case it is decades). does this also bring the coaches into account? i believe it does but first the GM has to provide quality players for them to work with. 3. i think you are missing the point of my post. if emery or the bears front office thinks taking a risk on a player of the quality of chilio to be their major move in the offseason then they are gambling on a 100 to 1 longshot that i am not willing to make. if he replaces their need to DRAFT a high quality prospect at tackle and/or guard in the first 3 rounds of this years draft to draft a defensive lineman (to make lovie happy and give him the best chance to win now at the risk of losing our franchise qb long term) or any other position then we have similar problems we had with angie. we need young quality guards, we need a young quality center and we need a young quality left tackle to groom into top players to protect cutler and the draft is where we can reasonably find them. 4. you ask for one player the bears could have signed and that answer is jarred gaither the LT for the chargers. i believe he could have been signed even with the addition of marshall if they would have pursued that avenue. when it comes right down to it if there is a choice between a good + left tackle and brandon marshall it is a no-brainer. you take the left tackle and draft a receiver or go another direction in free agency at WR unless you are sure you can draft a LT of quality.

i have no problem if he wants to give this guy a flier as LONG as this is not our answer at offensive line that stops us from drafting a high quality guard or tackle in rounds 1-3. i also have no problems adding depth if the quality is there. i think the backup QB was a solid move and i understand the players he put together for our special teams although i am not sold on the CB prospects we looked at (or didn't) and signed. i also understand one year will NOT fix this mess angie and phillips left us, but... the top priority for this GM to be successful, that angelo failed so miserably at, is PROTECTING OUR FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK with quality offensive linemen. there just is no if's, ands or buts about it. to risk his health for a one year superbowl run (if that is what emery is doing) to save lovie's collective arse to me is criminal.

i can't account for others but i want 'quality' offensive linemen to START or at least be groomed as a top starting prospect in the next year or two who have the potential to be great. i certainly don't want some highly questionable journeyman or failed player to come in if it prevents us from drafting a quality starter in a high round. i haven't watched any film on this guy and if he is salvageable for a depth position, fine. but who is he better than that we already have on this roster? which 'depth' guy are we ready to cut to make room for him? what i have read sounds like a frank oh-my clone who has the potential to put your franchise player in traction. the high end free agents to me are quality (reasonably) young starters like mcneill who may or may not be able to play due to injury issues and we never even sent him to visit our medical staff to see. gaithers, the now chargers starting LT, was another prospect we never even approached, also young, experienced and up-and-coming potential. so yea, my pick is quality over quantity. we need more bad offensive linemen for depth like we need jerry angelo to orchestrate this upcoming draft.

not sure i can disagree with that. seems like we got rid of a tackle, frankie, who couldn't block and signed a guard of the same quality. guess that ends hopes of drafting a good guard in the first three rounds.

a high second round draft pick in 08, he started for most of 2 seasons for the niners in 09 and 10. he was replaced in 11 after game 3, a very poor game, and never regained the starting role. he is 26 years old and plays right guard only. seems like he doesn't block very well... http://www.ninersnation.com/2011/9/26/2451...ive-line-eagles