Lucky Luciano

great job as always noots. in my opinion you could add turner to your horn section. this offense looked like they had never played together in their lives. they looked confused and inept at the least. the playcalling was in itself was not only poor but predictable in many instances. throw on 1st down and if it's an incompletion then run the ball on second down seems to be a trait of turner. i am totally dumbfounded as to why we ran the ball over left guard/tackle on 2nd down inside of the packers 5 yardline. we gained almost NOTHING running on that side of the line all night yet in this critical instance turner thinks we can turn this around with the entire defense bottled up in that short space. where was the qb rollout and where were our big receivers/tight ends??? it seems that turner has at least a handful of stupid/inept plays in every game and it usually costs us in the end. a TD with a first and goal at the 5 should have been a near given with a pro-bowl qb and would have put us in the drivers seat at that time.

i think there is a time and place for something like that call but certainly not when the penalty, if enforced, will not give you a first down or if it's desperation time and your behind with time running out. but... in that situation 11 yds is like a freakin mile especially when the receiving team is clogging up the line before the punt and the play called is to run the ball. it was a stupid call especially when he waited as long as he did to snap it once he signaled the change. time was of the essence at that point and the guy was off the field 1-2 seconds before the ball was even snapped.

oh, that's right. it ended 2 weeks ago. this entire game was just one stupid situation after the next. the entire team including the coaches looked like they just met for the first time before playing their first pre-season game tonight. someone asked in another post what we were going to do with our extra $15 mil? i'm for buying mike shannahan to start out as our offensive coordinator. then buy a freaking cornerback who can play bump and run defense, an offensive guard or two and if any is left over buy lovie a clue. hmmmm should i make a stupid situation worse than it is lovie? HELL YESS!!! throw a flag without even talking to the replay people in your booth and burn up the 2nd T.O. and your last challenge doing it (at least we didn't need the time out).

while agreeing that our offense was pathetic with the turnovers (especially grossman) i also have to state that our *defense did little themselves. in my opinion it certainly wasn't a one sided affair when laying blame but seeing as how our defense was SUPPOSED to be the crown jewel in our franchise and we expected little from our offense to begin with, it had to be more on their shoulders than any other squad. i also believe it was more on BOTH teams defenses to dictate the game due to weather conditions. monsoon rains definately help a running game more than the passing attack we feared from manning yet we gave away our weather advantage and let them run us down like roadkill racoons. to give up 191 yards rushing in a game where running is expected due to conditions is flat out horrible. this should have been on not only rivera but lovie for coming out the second half as flat and unimaginative as they appeared. turner also needed to be SLAPPED for only rushing 19 times in a game like this whether benson was hurt or not. one final item... those who think the score was not lopsided in the colts favor are kidding themselves. the colts could have virtually blown us out more than they acutally did by the end of the game if they wanted to. note... lovie does deserve his 20th ranking as a coach. forget the win loss record and go with how he actually performed 'coaching' over the last TWO years. in my opinion he is lucky to have been ranked that high. *the colts put up SIX long drives that buried the bears. one in the first quarter, a 4 1/2 min 80 yard drive for a TD, 2 second quarter drives that ate up 7 minutes for 105 yards and 10 points, 2 third quarter drives that consumed nearly 10 minutes for 128 yards and 6 points, and one fourth quarter drive with 5 min left in the game that ate up 3 1/2 minutes and 37 yrds to put the final nail in the coffin.

huh? i guess i was assuming that folks would understand that when draft day rolled around that the teams drafting actually had some players on their team and weren't building an entire starting offensive line through ONE draft. my mistake. i will try to make it clearer... first of all, the reference "more likely than not" referred only to where >>high quality second... you don't agree that if you want a 'projected' high quality RT, who you hope to start in the minimum amount of time, your best bet is to take one in the 2nd half of the 1st round down through the 2nd if the quality is there? the same holds true to my guards scenario and the position where you can get the best player possible through the draft and where they are actually drafted. to me, it comes down to value by position as to where the top prospects by position are drafted in any given year and i don't believe i am far off in my estimation of where to get one. does that mean that only eventual quality players are drafted in these slots? no. some are drafted higher and some lower but when you draft in the 4th round on down you are 'generally' looking at a player with potential to be groomed into a quality ball player in time OR get lucky and find one that was overlooked for whatever reason. and yes, there are exceptions to every rule and you can find guys who even went undrafted and have excellent or even HOF careers. jay hilgenburg is a perfect example of a walk-on-lineman who excelled at his position. but you certainly can't build a team around the assumption you will find one of these gems on draft day. what i was referring to and am saying is that our drafts have been so pathetic in regards to our offensive line that this season we started out with present and future needs at every single position with the possible exception of where c. williams is projected to play OR beekman if you believe he showed enough talent last season to be a good+ future prospect which i didn't (at least not at this point in his career). that means starting an end-of-his-career center who's production is fading and an unproven 2nd year draft pick along with NO existing talent on our team to fill in any position. that equals 3 for sure holes on our offensive line at the very least. now let's look at what we filled these holes with... stop gap - orlando pace - an outstanding pickup for a short term solution to keep cutler healthy until/if williams can play LT. i believe i stated he was penciled in at LT so i don't understand what you are talking about in regards to my previous post. i think you could also add that there is a limited amount of time pace can play and if we move williams over to LT we still have a gap at our RT position in the near future. unknowns - the 3 FA's i referred to in my statement: "that leaves us with no proven quality linemen on this team if these free agents can't play positions they have rarely or not at all played in their careers." are shaffer, buenning and omiyale. since BOTH tackle slots are filled, pace and williams, that leaves 2 GUARD spots to fill unless you are happy with beekman and garza which i am NOT. shaffer: has NO experience as a guard and quite frankly was unhappy in cleveland when they moved him from LT to RT if what little i read is even reasonably correct. so other than not starting as a tackle just what is is job? backup swing tackle? i am not sure what he was told when we signed him here or what role he expected to play but do you believe he will be happy as a backup tackle? if not he switches to a position he never played before, guard. what kind of money is he getting for this from us? i believe he is still getting guaranteed money from cleveland but how much are we ponying up for a backup swing tackle with tons of experience who won't hopefully play or a switch to guard? omiyale: hmmmm... started ONE game in 4 years as a tackle. can you say this isn't an unknown without experience at the guard position? buenning: a 4 year vet with some game experience at guard THREE years ago although which side of the line i wonder. if after watching how pathetic our o-line was last season and he was sitting on the bench just how good is he or how has injury effected his performance? does this make for an unknown with little experience to you? so let's flesh this out. we have 2 tackles who's only chance to start is at guard and a guard who hasn't played in 3 years with limited experience and garza and beekman pushing these guys for a spot in the mix. who could wonder about that? look, maybe all these guys will have stellar years including beekman but to say we are set with a solid line at this point is just incorrect and it all boils down to poor drafting in previous years by our gm that we find ourselves in this position of trying to keep a franchise qb off the IR with virtual unknowns who have NEVER played together. well, what i can tell you is that giving every WR a 5-10 yard cushion and an uncontested route into OPEN zones every play is NOT a superior scheme no matter WHAT kind of defense you are running!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you really believe any professional defensive coach is going to give an opponents offense this kind of cushion every play if his players can play a receiver tight in his zone or jam a WR in the 5 yd zone to throw off the timing of a qb throwing these uncontested slants, curls etc. that have been eating up your defense game after game??? really, do you believe that? and yes, this type of defense whether due to poor personnel or mindbogglingly poor coaching kills your team in numerous critical ways. exactly how much time do you believe it takes for defensive linemen to physically get to a qb? if a qb can take a one or two steps back and throw to an open receiver on every play and gain 4-10 yds how have you given your line any kind of help to do the job they were intended to do? also by not being able to touch a receiver in his route you just made it harder for your corners and safeties to cover their man whether it's a short drop or a go route. one reason being because the receiver can dictate position. it makes the job your ends do harder containing the end if your backers have to play softer or drop back to try and cover open zones that your corners have cleared. these are the plays designed to move the chains and keep your defense on the field longer than neccessary not to mention it will open up your running game when all the DB's are playing a basic prevent.

double post

1. when did i ever say we had to create our offensive line exclusively with top draft picks? what i HAVE said in the past is if you want to find high quality LT's you will have to draft high in the 1st round more likely than not, high quality projected RT's in the lower 1st or in the 2nd, top tier guards/centers in the 2nd or 3rd, and project tackles and guards/centers to groom into good ball players from there on down. of course there are exceptions to every rule but a general yardstick is if you are looking for a starter at a position within the 1st or even 2nd year of drafting a player at these positions this rule in general holds true. another factor i would like to point out is the availability of quality offensive linemen in todays draft era (over the last 10-15 years). the costs of linemen, including guards, over this period of time has GREATLY increased causing cap ramifications for teams trying to plug in quality free agents to keep their high priced franchise qb's healthy. this has led to runs on offensive linemen in the drafts first 3 rounds that were never there in the past thus creating shortages of quality prospects/players in lower rounds. also one of the key points you failed to bring up is angelo's failure to draft ANY substancial OL prospects even to groom into good replacement starters over the last 7 YEARS!! this is a position you have to look at long term which he has failed to even consider over his time in chicago. 2. highly touted or without talent? we virtually have 3 holes to fill out of a 5 man line, unless you have penciled in beekman at left guard, and that's not even including our aging center. this is 'even' considering putting in c. williams who has never even started a game at any position!! that means we have nothing on our team from previous drafts to fill any of these holes, with the exception of beekman, who has been here longer than one year or ever played a down in chicago. that is the cost of poor drafting and poor long term judgment when you have to bring in 4 free agents, 3 in a single year, to compete for 3 starting slots and only two of these FA's has started more than one game in the nfl over the past 4 years. one, a starting tackle, is projected to start where? with pace penciled in at LT we put our rookie LT in the RT slot that shaffer has started in cleveland over the last 2 years. so.... that leaves us with no proven quality linemen on this team if these free agents can't play positions they have rarely or not at all played in their careers. that said, you say that these guys have talent. well just who are you talking about and what evidence do you base these conclusions on? 3. youth? we have one projected starter in williams and the rest are old or unknown commodities castoff from other teams. the only exception to that is beekman, who in my opinion, looked less than average last season. do we need to see what all these bodies we aquired this season can do? yes. that is why i stated that the need to draft guards or tackles this season should have been put on hold for a year. we just can't fit any more into the space left on our roster. i am not dismissing beekman. although i wasn't impressed last season he is young and could turn it around and be a very good ball player. with that said competition between beekman and if we drafted unger at center would have been benifitial by leaps and bounds for this franchise. unger has more size and power which playing center in our division against nose tackles like GB is projecting in their new 3/4 scheme or against the williams twins in minny can only help. at the least we would have a quality guard to fill in beekmans spot even if he did beat unger out of kreutz's position. again you say we added youth AND starting talent. who? oh really? yet again we are taking players who failed with other teams and 'hope' this crap system we run can turn them into gold. that's fine and good but when you look at the number of safeties over the last 7 years drafted/not drafted by our gm and we still have to 'hope' some other castoff FA failure can start for us in this important position it's pathetic. tell me, which player on our squad we are grooming at free safety gives you hope for the future? bowman? surely you jest. in his entire career he has 1 tackle at CB and never played safety once. is it possible he could turn out to be great? who knows. it's possible he could end up in the HOF but at this point there is absolutely no data to say he will even make the cut. who else? i know, i know, you are happy with #2 quality CB's and see no need for a #1 to be able to cover man off the LOS in the system lovie runs which gives every WR a free untouched route and a given 5-10 yd reception. my contention is and has been we don't have the talent to play bump and run which KILLS us in numerous critical ways. can our 4th round draft pick be the guy to be that #1 bump and run corner? i surely hope so. first... elite? i would be happy with a SLB who was just plain GOOD. second... what real depth at LB do you see on our squad? who is there to replace url now if injured or gone in a couple years? who would step in to replace briggs if injured or he replaced url? williams who replaced him for a few games? i could give you him for WLB depth as long as briggs didn't fill in the middle for more than a couple games but after that? SLB? we don't even have a quality starter but i could give you hilly for depth if only for a few games if you want. third... not spend high draft picks? what was okwo? leon joe and j. williams were 4th round picks. how high would you go to draft a starting SLB? i would go 2nd or 3rd to get a quality player if we didn't have so many other needs because angelo's drafts were so weak. hmmmm... prior to this season angelo drafted 9 WR's. although our list of qb's is atrocious, how many receivers have even sniffed a pro-bowl offer in chicago or left here to become much better than what they were here? you mean what he has done this "late"? in 2007 3 out of 4 first day picks were a disaster. 2006 2 out of 3 picks were a disaster and hester is still on hold. 2005 2 out of 2 picks were a disaster. how's that for a first day massacre? it's way, way, to early to judge picks this season or even last season unless they are gone from the roster when the season starts. finally...... i have stated in the past that angelo's free agent aquisitions and trades have been good to excellent and the most recent cutler aquasition is the only thing keeping him from a fire angelo now agenda. the cutler move took cajone's and i respect him for that and i also agree it gives him some breathing room from the headmans axe. but... he HAS to start making these drafts work because you can't build a FA team if your aspirations are to win multiple superbowls. it's just not possible especially in this day of salary cap and free agency. even with cutler, who i believe can be our long lost franchise qb in the making, you have to surround him with real talent that you bring up through the ranks of the draft that gives you the cohesiveness and consistency as a complete unit. there just is no other way and if he can't do it starting now, then he needs to be shown the highway.

when you break this team down by need at position, importance and most of all it's future young players stepping in to replace the aging quality or even the poor quality players on this squad we are extremely thin in my estimation with the exception of QB, TE, DL and possibly RB. 1. OL - we have one young drafted 'high quality' prospect, c. williams, for 5 positions over the next 2-5 years. the rest that are not limited by age are serious questionmark veterans from other teams who may or may not prove to be even starter quality let alone good+ quality starters. should we have drafted guard or tackle high this particular year? earlier this offseason i stated that i did not beleive so with the glut of FA linemen we aquired this offseason and include buenning also in this list. i still stand by that. but our lack of previously drafted linemen to fill in these positions, which are getting extremely expensive cap wise to find good + players in free agency, is obvious. if these 2nd tier FA's don't pan out we are in the same boat again next season. next - we certainly could have locked down our future center position this season by keeping our 2nd round pick and drafting unger who has very good size/weight and is projected to be an excellent center and could play as a quality guard if needed. our only depth at all to an aging kreutz is beekman who has shown little as someone who is going to excel in the nfl. although it would not have been a flashy pick it would have anchored one of the most important positions on the offensive line where there exists a player who touches the ball on offense every single play. i'm sure cutler would agree. 2. DB's - there is absolutely no depth OR quality in regards to our safeties and especially free safety which is an important position in the type of defense we run. nothing on the table now and nothing being groomed on the roster for our future. poor drafting by angelo at this position has been critical to where our defense now stands in pass protection. our corners are not able to play 'up' coverage and it shows as stated in another post about our poor short pass protection (defiantgiant - http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4540). although we have a lot of reasonably young bodies on our squad the trend is still to play them 5-10 yards off the LOS which is due, >>IMO 3. LB's - we not only lack depth at this position but lack quality in our SLB. there is nobody to fill in the middle when url leaves or is injured, nobody to fill briggs slot if needed, and not a single strong side backer on this entire team that is even average. angelo has failed to draft any replacements at this position, with the only exception being in briggs, with how many picks? 4. WR - we have 2 questionable #2 WR's drafted by angelo currently on this roster and one was a CB makeover. i don't think i need to extrapolate on angelo's draft results at this position more than it has been discussed on this board. finally... the facts are you can't keep bringing in aging quality vets at high price tags like the boldin type receivers or the cheaper end-of-the-line pace/r. brown type linemen without serious damage to your team in the long run. these are stop-gap or over-the-top get me into the superbowl this season type players only. if you can't fill these positions in the draft for long term solutions you will be in trouble if your goal is to win multiple superbowls.

here is the problem i have at this juncture with angelo... although his free agent pick-ups have been been reasonably good to excellent this does not make or break a GM. what does is the ability to draft well and with consistency, especially with your first 3 picks. you HAVE to be able to draft good + quality players to improve your team over the long haul or you end up like the george allen skins of the 70's and so far angelo has done poorly up to this point.

in my post i would not have traded our 2nd round pick and gotten what i had posted. my top choices were s. smith and unger but would have considered moore also instead of the smaller vasher clone later on.

erase j. gilbert and insert... Sean Smith (CB) - 217 and 6'4"!!! "developed into one of the best cornerbacks in the nation before leaving school a year early to enter the 2009 NFL Draft. Has the size and closing speed to be an effective blitzer. Very quick to support the run or attack quick screens and passes in the flat. Reacts quickly on plays in front of him and finds the ball well in the air." http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/tracker#dt-t...y-round-input:6 if converted to free safety this guy would be a monster. would also leave the possibility to move one of our current cb's to free safety if he filled in at the cb position. William Moore (FS) 223 lbs ran a 4.51 40 has had foot and shoulder injuries 1st round prospect picked in 2nd at 55 overall. has the size and speed to play the position at the highest level. "Max Unger (OT) Height: 6'5" Weight: 309 40 yd dash 5.35 seconds considered one of two elite centers in the draft. ranked among nation's top 50 offensive guards. was considered by some as a late first round pick." how much better of a prospect at center to fill kreutz's position over the next 2 years is this guy compared to beekman? for that matter how would he compare at guard to what we have while waiting to take over kreutz's position? this is who the seahawks wanted moving up with the trade. this would be a great pick in my estimation even with the glut we have of FA offensive linemen. round 3 we still get iglasius at WR round 4 we 'POSSIBLY' don't get DE melton. how many defensive linemen can we float on our roster? who are you going to cut in his place? so... we now have no need for d.j. moore and can go with best player available or if angie HAS to have a DE go with l. sidbury. another possibility would be linebacker gerald mcrath who could play in or outside backer. i personally would have picked moore also or the top of the 5th round pick j. knox. round 5 - knox if you didn't pick him in the 4th and he was still there or pick up one of the FS's left on the board. i seen no great loss missing out on an undersized injury prone weak side backer in freeman who will die on the vine behind briggs if he even makes the cut. note: i did not watch much college ball this season so all information is strictly off of reports by those who apparently have.

i'm not so sure putting him in as RT is the best move. why not next to pace as LG? he should make a good + pulling guard and it gives him experience on the left side next to pace who he can learn the position from. also wasn't our free agent oym (sp)? a projected right tackle?

although in the past i have not been a supporter for turner, this cutler move should prove to be a major boon for him. looking at what he did with real talent at qb, kramer, the last time he was in chicago should give him a wide open playbook and give chicago some hope for a real offense. there can't be any excuses anymore. i would like to point out it will probably take a season for everyone to become familiar with the new system and our excitement should be realistically tempered some until we are hitting on all cylinders. hope abounds!

i don't really look for an offensive lineman until late in the draft either if even then. as it played out, getting cuttler, i am not as objectionable as i was before this deal went down. with that in mind, the pace signing was an excellent decision by angelo for the simple reason cuttler needs someone to keep him clean and betting your established franchise qb on a rookie to do so was not a good idea in my opinion. another reason is that there's just are too many bodies in camp with all the free agent OL pickups to draft a 4th round or lower lineman. we need to let the dust on this settle and make our draft move next season to fill the future offensive line positions, especially right tackle as a must. also....... what i look for is williams to move into the left guard spot next to pace. we should have a 2 year window before pace explodes. this gives him good experience playing on the left side next to an all-pro LOT. i know some will say he is more of a finess (sp) type of player but i really don't see that as a major problem if they put him on the left side. he has the speed and ability to be a decent pulling guard and much of our running attack probably will go to the strong side. he should excel in pass protection. this move by angelo picking up cuttler is excellent and i agree with others that it was a good pickup no matter how it plays out. i also have to add that this puts angelo back on an even keel in my opinion but... it also does not give him a free pass in our draft future. he still HAS to draft well and with a lot more thought than he has in the past for this franchise to advance.

i absolutely agree. i have been talking the same story for years on here. you HAVE to be able to build your offensive line through the draft and for whatever reason our GM is too stupid to "get it". by picking up these retreads or tweeners you have an offensive line that has absolutely no continuity. you keep plugging in these guys and by the time they mesh with the other players their career is over and we do it again!! we also keep moving some of these aging players to other positions than what made them even reasonably good in their careers, not to mention we always play them a year beyond their ability to even play. with out any doubt, you need to DRAFT good talent to build a cohesive unit that has the ability to play together over 5 years. if this means you draft high and groom a highly talented player for a year or two before he takes over you do it. also, to say the least, by doing what we are doing it's also much harder for your qb to develop!!!

there is a reason why defensive ends or cornerbacks are the highest paid positions on the entire defense and maybe on the entire team next to qb. they are the main personnel to stop a passing attack. if you don't have ends to harass the qb you are in serious trouble. prior to one year by ogy (2005) and one by anderson (2006) it was 1993 when we had defensive ends (dent and armstrong) that recorded double digit sacks. that is really, really a bad statistic if you expect to win in the nfl.

here is something to think about.... how many times have bear DE's recorded double digit sacks since 2000? answer: 2 times. once in 2005, ogy with 10 and once in 2006, anderson with 12. that is the entire total for the most important position on your defense.

rices salary: "Tony Dungy and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers were one of the few teams that saw Simeon as a worthwhile gamble. He signed a 5-year deal worth more than $30 million, but would make just $1 million for the 2001 campaign." http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Rice/Rice_bio.html 1998 - 10 sacks 1999 - rice recorded 16.5 sacks and went to the pro-bowl. 2000 - he only recorded 7.5 sacks and was in a contract dispute with bidwell. "With his original contract expired, Simeon was due for a big bump in pay in 2000. The subsequent negotiation dragged on through training camp, and he did not lay cleat on grass until the second game of the regular season." http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Rice/Rice_bio.html 2001 - free agent. this was one of the most important free agents the bears could have picked up. in 2001 the highest paid DE was marcellus wiley DE at $11,000,960 we paid the great DE bryan robinson $8,843,666, an overall top ten in the league salary, then the following year made him a DT. 2 years prior to this robinson contract signing, simeon rice recorded 16.5 sacks. more than bryan robinson in his entire 4 year career in chicago. we also had daniels who never recorded double digit sacks in his entire career also. i believe this was hately's idiocy (but not positive as this was angies first year also in chicago) who let this diamond slip through his fingers because they thought he was a one dimentional player. the only problem was that one dimention was the weakest link on our entire defense, the pass rush. this was a player that would have made us way, way better and solidified our entire defense for years and could have made the difference in our playoffs that year. instead, rice went on to TB to record 5 years straight of double digit sacks. this left us with yet another STUPID landmark for our great management over the years. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...29-salaries.htm

"somewhat arguable"?? how is it not a rock solid foundation doing exactly what i said it did based on facts and logical deduction? "Get in the now!"?? the entire discussion with 'nfo' is USING the past as the qualifier for the statements HE made ABOUT the past!! by the way, this was at the very top of my first post to you when you jumped into this conversation: "LT2_3 first: before i go into any details (right or wrong) lets discuss this 'example' using the previous nfl contract agreement as it pertains to nfo's and my discussion more-so than the one signed last year, at least at this point." http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?...=4135&st=20

well what do YOU call it then? if a *DGR percentage isn’t “**allotted” to them then how is “a large portion of their annual income from the league” paid???? is it some mysterious amount of money that shows up unexpectedly in their bank accounts that nobody can account for? not related? are you now going to tell me there aren’t specified percentages of the defined gross revenue paid to the owners to pay the players out of? just exactly what is the point of your entire post? **Main Entry: al·lot·ment 1: the act of allotting : apportionment 2: something that is allotted ; especially chiefly British : a plot of land let to an individual for cultivation hmmmm, now let’s see what “apportioning” means: Main Entry: ap·por·tion Inflected Form(s): ap·por·tioned; ap·por·tion·ing \-sh(ə-)niŋ\ Etymology: Middle French apportionner, from a- (from Latin ad-) + portionner to portion : to divide and share out according to a plan ; especially : to make a proportionate division or distribution of finally let’s look at the thesaurus: Entry Word: allotment Text: 1 a sum of money allotted for a specific use by official or formal action— see appropriation 2 something belonging to, due to, or contributed by an individual member of a group— see share 1 *now let’s look at how this pertains to the NFL’s salary cap per the >>OLD Page 96 ( The foregoing Salary Cap amounts shall be adjusted as follows: (i) The actual dollar amount of the Salary Cap shall not be less than the actual dollar amount of any Salary Cap in effect during the preceding League Year; provided, however, that at no time shall the Projected Benefits, plus the amount of the Salary Cap multiplied by the number of Teams in the NFL, exceed 70% of the Projected Defined Gross Revenues. Section 5. Minimum Team Salary: With respect to each League Year for which a Salary Cap is in effect, there shall be a guaranteed Minimum Team Salary of 56% of Projected Defined Gross Revenues, less League-wide Projected Benefits, divided by the then current number of Teams in Page 97 the NFL. Each Team shall be required to have a Team Salary of at least the Minimum Team Salary at the end of each League Year. * Extension Agreement 1/8/02 [prior League Year percentages omitted] ( Nothing contained herein shall preclude a Team from having a Team Salary in excess of the Minimum Team Salary, provided it does not exceed the Salary Cap. © Any shortfall in the Minimum Team Salary at the end of a League Year shall be paid, on or before April 15 of the next League Year, by the Teams having such shortfall, directly to the players who were on such Teams' roster at any time during the season, pursuant to reasonable allocation instructions of the NFLPA. (d) If the NFL agrees, or a judgment or award is entered by the Special Master, that a Team has failed by the end of the then current League Year to make the payments required to satisfy a Team's obligations to pay the Minimum Team Salary required by this Agreement, then, in the event the Team fails promptly to comply with such agreement, judgment or award, the NFL shall make such payment on behalf of that Team (such funds to be paid as salary directly to the players on such Team at the direction of and pursuant to the reasonable allocation instructions of the NFLPA). Section 6. Computation of Team Salary: During any League year in which the Salary Cap is in effect, all of the following amounts shall be included every day in determining a Team’s Team Salary:

1. i too think these rookie signings are way out of line but the bottom line is... how do you fix it? if it was easy and do-able it would have been done in the last two agreements. how would you regulate it? a cap on slot in the draft they were picked? this has major problems trying to enforce. does the top qb get the same money as a top linebacker picked at #1? do you have a cap on which position is more valuable? how long are the contracts you can pay these players the stunted salary? what if a player makes the pro-bowl in these salary challenged years? what is the difference paid in round 1 compared to other rounds? isn't each player going to want the limited max he can get paid no matter what the quality? 2. how can you cap bonus money? this is the only guaranteed amount they make in the contract. would you change it to read that the contract signed gets paid in full whether the player is cut or injured? so it wouldn't matter if a player gets cut or whatever he still gets the money he signed for every year? what is that going to do to the teams salary cap? the point was to show how private owners can pad the payroll by hiring not only THEMSELVES, but relatives and friends. the possibility these salaried relatives share in the profits is still a real consideration as to how much owners actually make. the point is that you are inferring that bonus money somehow comes out of the owners revenue they were paid each year, as their portion of what the nfl doled out, or it comes out of their own personal bank accounts. that somehow they need $20-30 M in cash at hand to pay these bonuses. this is clearly NOT the case. any owner can compete with any other in paying out these amounts whether well heeled or not. it costs them nothing unless you consider the money the nfl allotted for salary is included in their profit plan. how can they "regret the deal" when they have signed a new contract with the players at least twice? i too would like to see rookie money relief but i don't know how to regulate it fairly - read above. for the rest read below: and yes, again and again and again i understand how they can spend temorarily more that the salary cap limit is in a designated season. i GET IT. look, i am not trying to be facetious or an ass hat in saying this, but... do you not understand what i have been telling you all these months on how this large bonus money can be paid strickly out of the share of player salary allottment? that no money comes out of the owners own personal bank accounts? that it doesn't take rich franchises to do this? i have shown examples and models in the past, yet you seem to come back to the same wrong assessment time and time again. if you don't understand this just say so and i can try to explain it in great detail for you if you ask.

you mean like suggesting with no basis in fact that owners could make as little profit as $1M?... "If $21m is aroung top 10, what does the bottom 10 look like? $1m? $5M?" or... "What I do find funny is, I think few fans realize how many players actually make more than the owners." you are correct in one aspect, it IS funny to suggest that individual players actually make more money over their careers as owners do over theirs. so instead of giving this portion of the fair share of the purse (that the owners signed and agreed to be fair in their eyes) to veterans instead of mega rookie salaries and bonuses you want to give it to the owners? i have some 10 year old '98 information on personel (yes i know things have changed but just as an example): chairman of the board - ed mccaskey; president CEO - mike mccaskey; director of community involvement - pat mccaskey; ticket manager - george mccaskey; office staff administration - tim mccaskey; director of player personel - brian mccaskey. any bet that there may be some spouces, sisters, sisters children, uncles or cousins employed? and you just think that when "bonus money" is paid out they just call virginia to cut them a check out of her christmas account? in fact maybe she does. that way she could get a better interest rate on her money when she loans it to her own corporation instead of borrowing it from a bank!! logical or reasonable in what aspect? you have ONE instance of reported profit in the entire nfl and you "logically" deduct from that profit margins? just to open up another can of worms... if the bears had a stadium that held 500,000 they don't get exclusive ticket sale receipts anyway. this is one of the items that goes into a pool to be shared among the league. what they do/or did get was sky box cash if i am not mistaken (and well could be without rereading the old CBA again or reading the new one) and probably a few other perks. again and again i have to keep telling you that it's paid for from the allottment from the collective nfl to pay player salaries!! when that rises so do the salaries for players AND the owners!!!! the only way it is not is if you believe taking money out of player salary allottments is just part of the owners profit plan they are entitled to. so if the players are not entitled to the percentages written in the contract WHY did the owners sign such an agreement????????

metcalf should have been shown the door over 3 years ago. he was a waste of roster space and salary cap. if he initiated the release he also must suffer from brain damage.

so what are you suggesting? that we wipe the board clean and go back to the system of the 20's-80's? players can work for minimum wage with no benefits including medical or retirement? no rights of free agency? robber baron owners? i'm sure trickle down economics will work terrific in the nfl again. after paying all expenses including top CEO salaries!! how many mccaskey’s are on the payroll that comes out of these franchise expenses before net profits are calculated and for how much? stop it... you’re breaking my heart. uhhh, you mean after the salary cap and owners share goes up? isn’t that what is generating the rise in contract sizes? compare the cap today to 10 years ago. this is pretty comical. YOU pull a lowball figure out of your arse and then argue points in reference like it was a fact! in reality, these are sport franchises that operate 4 ½ months a freakin year to generate income. the absolute maximum number of games they can possibly play per year is 20 and ½ of those are on the road! how much more profit do you think they ‘should’ generate and where do you think this added income should come from? and finally........ this is a day to remember when i am arguing with a person that thinks the bidwell and mccaskey type of owners are being mistreated and deserve, not only sympathy, but more money from the players and fans. it's simply mindboggling (but it does put a smile on my face i give you that). here’s an idea, start a charity fund and organize a food drive for the bidwell and mccaskey families to help them through these hard times. individuals in their respective communities can just drop off donations at the servants entrance.

for X's sake what do you consider getting massive revenues? a billion + a quarter? these are sporting franchises not oil cartels. that's >>$21 million dollars