Lucky Luciano

this is one of lovie's worst traits. his loyalty to his players even when this hurts the team as a whole is a serious downfall. another is i am not really sure how much lovie really KNOWS about offenses and what to do about correcting problems.

heard on the score that lovie took the defense to task on the sideline when they were down 14 zip. also heard, though not confirmed he ripped em a new one in the locker room at halftime. i don't really see this as a great problem as LONG as he is involved DURING the game in changing things around.

i disagree. the defense is certainly a problem and has been for years. this is one of those instances where statistics and rankings are so misleading that many people can't see the forest for the trees. if you want to really judge how this defense (or scheme if you will) compares to really GOOD defenses you have to look at whether it can or CAN'T shut down an opponents offense and specifically a passing attack when the game is on the line. to me it matters little if we hold a team to a total of a hundred yards total offense if they still beat us by a single point in the final 3 seconds of a game. we can't "finish" a game because we can't even get mediocre pass offenses off the field in clutch situations. again i don't agree. oh don't get me wrong, i don't believe we are bristling with talent in 2009 (thanks angelo) but 3-4 years ago we had numerous pro-bowl talent and players on this squad yet we STILL could not CONSISTENTLY stop opposing offenses when it counted the most running this type of defense!! if we had the dead guy from philly in chicago the last 4 years where would our defense be ranked even with what we are fielding now? doesn't coaching players count for something also? who have we coached that has excelled since lovie came here or is it angelo just dumping his draft garbage on smith? this i can tell you and i am going to throw this into the face of lovie smith, if you HAVE to rely on turnovers by your defense to win, you will more often than not LOSE the big games against very good teams.

these are just a few of the plays i DO question... 1. a fade into the corner of the endzone by the SMALLEST receiver on our squad. isn't this where you put the jumbo sized players in? like 6'6" greg olson, 6'6" k. davis, or EVEN the 6'3" d. clark??? hmmmm, i have seen this call at least twice this season with hester running the route from inside our 5 yardline fading into the right corner. wouldn't our qb be better received by our speed guys like knox and/or hester in slants or crossing patterns over the middle and put our LARGER receivers in position to grab these usually high touch passes? 2. if it's 1st or 2nd and goal and you are on the 1/2 yardline what play do you call first? seriously, what call? since bart starr ran a qb sneak in the mid 1960's this has usually been the normal play call if your center isn't a 2 foot tall midget. 3. i also have to ask this question to the board... when it's 3rd down and 1 at your opponents 1 freaking yard line do you call a play that pulls your left guard to fill the 5 gap where your RT and RG have just downblocked and he follows the fullback who seals off the outside at 5 gap, stands there looking around while the running back power runs up the freakin MIDDLE where everyone on the line has pinched the defensive tackles/guards to the middle? 4. and sweeps? there are 11 defenders squashed into a 5 yard area. do you really want to design slow forming running plays inside an opponents 5 yard line? especially when your offensive line is slower than death and is getting pushed back a yard or two from the line of scrimmage at the snap? finally... have we had worse coordinators and seen worse calls from our offensive coordinators in chicago? without any doubt. but even with the poor excuses we have for offensive linemen (thanks to angelo) turner has NOT put the talent he has been FORCED to work with in a position to succeed with any real consistency either as *starters or the type of scheme he is running and finally down to gameday play calling. * people keep asking about the poor play of #68 frank owhatamidoinghere our esteemed LG and frankly i have to agree with them. he has a decent to good block about every 3-4 plays. who has penciled this guy as our starter at LG? CERTAINLY not lovie!!! i admit i was no fan of beekman but if frank is truly the best player we can field at that position we might as well fire every lineman we have and just pull some fat clown out of the stands and suit him up for minimum wage.

in three words i can answer this question... cutler would die. as it stands right at this moment cutler is getting killed. forget the statistics, forget the sack count. watch him after the ball leaves his hand (or even before). he is getting freakin ROCKED on numerous plays game in game out. these hits are like heavy body blows to a heavyweight boxer. after a few rounds it starts taking it's toll. the runningbacks are the only thing keeping cutler off the IR and they aren't doing a great job at it either. PLUS, greg olson and our other TE davis are maybe the worst blocking TE's i have ever seen in the nfl. i can't even imagine what our line coaches or TE coaches, if we even have any, are teaching these guys. i find it almost incomprehensible that anyone that has played football nearly all their lives could be this bad. compound this fact with the incredible poor play by our left guard, our center, and throw in the 2-3 bad blocks each by our tackles per game it's simply mindboggling. if we ran a no protection or 5 receiver spread scheme cutler would be scraped off the field. seriously, if we don't give cutler some relief we are all going to be saying after the next year or two... wow, think how good the bears COULD have been if cutler's career had lasted more than 2 years before injury ended his nfl career!!!!!!!!!!

here is something i don't get... 2nd quarter about 2.5 mins left in the half, 3rd and goal at the hawks 1 yard line. turner calls a running play. the LG pulls while our LT downblocks to the right, the right side of the line downblocks to the left pinching the middle while forte drives up the middle toward the endzone all the while the left guard goes around the right end blocking with the fullback untouched. the results? forte stuffed in the middle for no gain and it's 4th and goal. what kind of a call is that? did they really practice this during the week and expect it to work? am i not remembering this right?

from what little i have watched of the lions stafford has the tangibles to become a very good qb. a good arm with zip on the ball, good size and pretty accurate. if he continues to improve mentally he could turn out to be an upper tier qb in the near future. if this happens and stafford has an even average supporting cast in detroit and even a decent defense, the nfc north is going to become very interesting in the next few years with cutler, rogers, favre and now stafford running the offenses.

i am not sure he has looked as bad as you are stating. i have seen him get beaten occasionally and wonder at his run blocking but most of the pass rush from that side he is moving his man wide and back like he is supposed to. the problems i am seeing is that there just is no room for cutler to move up into the pocket due to the collapse of the interior line, penetration over the LT spot or overloading the line with blitzers that we are not picking up (the latter has been a weakness that teams have exploited since the packer game). i think he is doing pretty well for the amount of time he has actually played.

i can't go with the "multiple occasions" as most fines result from conditions that can cause serious injury. maybe one warning but that's my limit.

it seems that cutler spends a lot of time running for his life. we need to get that situation fixed as i would hate to finally get our franchise qb only to see him on IR or worse.

although i don't know a thing about soccer, it sounds good to me. i'm with you guys on this one

i have no problem with that although the game suspension would be considerably more than the fines are.

i don't know. in both instances it seemed to me he lead with his helmet and deserved not just one fine but 2. the rule is there to protect BOTH players from serious injury and if a modern era player hasn't figured it out yet it is time he did so.

agree and have stated so numerous times in the past that expansion teams have seriously diluted the quality of play in the nfl to nearly second rate football. but... with that said i also believe 18 regular season games plus post season and the extra wild card game is just too much for a high contact sport. similar to the reason boxers have such a spread out schedule, the body needs down time to heal properly or you could compound the effect of injuries. minor concussions turn into major ones, foot, leg and joint injuries continue to be aggravated for longer periods of time and although there are some exceptions, in my opinion there are just so many throws over the career of a qb before quality suffers or physical breakdown. over the long run you will lose many more players over the course of extended seasons due to temporary or permanent injury. i am with madl... if we went to 14 games a season i would be happy. that is more than a quarter more games per season than was previously played in the nfl for over 60 years. in fact they should cut down on the amount of pre-season games also. the only reason the owners want to extend the regular season is due to monetary gains and no other reason.

absolutely agree. the 14 game season was enough. if they go to an 18 game season expect a lot more injuries and as a final result it will shorten the careers of players in which this league with all the expansion teams can't afford. they can't even fill the rosters now with first rate players. we are already seeing watered down football.

one bootleg? even though we had problems from both tackles at times i would have liked to see some more planned rollouts. wr screens are generally garbage and a waste of down. about 1 in 4 gain more than 1-2 yards. a rb screen? i sure don't remember it. only so much you can do to adapt? hmmmm... how about going no huddle? we did it ONE series, the 2nd of the game, in which we moved the ball from our own 18 to the packer 31 before an INT. we never saw it again the entire first half and maybe the game. max protect? how many times did we keep forte back WITH mckie to block (that is max protection)? once? twice? the time we did we had a big gain including your example of the long ball to knox. our biggest problems were running 4 step drops with cutler. the tackles were bringing their outside men wide and back but the problem was by the time he set, the interior line was getting either pushed back or blitzers were coming through the gaps. our best success came running quick 2 and 3 step passes. in my opinion we were totally confused on offense. our linemen didn't know which guys to block or when. two linemen would double up a guy and a second later a defender would come through the gap untouched. our pulling guard/center plays on sweeps to the outside were slow and bottled up because the guards and tackles got no penetration and were being stood up. well if you or anyone else has seen out offense/qb going over printouts on the bench with coaches i haven't. maybe the don't show it on tv. anyone at the game that could shed light on this? huh? one deep pass is changing the way your offense is operating? what quick outside option? those crap wr screens? that is our major changeup we can expect for chicago offenses? we have been beating that dead horse since crowton. sorry but the things that actually worked we abandoned and continued with what didn't.

i agree that cutler looked bad. but don't you compensate for what weaknesses he is displaying at that particular time if for no other reason than to boost his confidence or settle him down? my contention is that this entire coaching staff is like a lumbering brontosaurus when it comes to adjustments during a game on both sides of the ball. don't good coaches plan for days or situations like that? don't good coaches plan for certain opponents players having stellar performances on a particular day and have some idea what to do about it? have we watched such poor management throughout the last 40 years that we don't even recognize it when we see sub-par performance in a particular field? as i said before, i have given turner the benefit of the doubt over the last few years. i won't continue to do so much longer with the quality of players he now has to work with. here is to hoping turner AND lovie get a clue and sooon... cheers. :cheers

you know, it's been nearly as long and maybe longer that this franchise has actually seen a good offensive coach as it has a good consistent qb. in my lifetime of watching the bears it has always been defense with complete offenses as an afterthought. maybe i'm being too critical of what we have had in chicago (then maybe not as i have never seen an offensive coach leave chicago to ever become even an nfl offensive coordinator of any renown). but when i see other coaches like billicheck (sp), fisher, shannahan, johnson, gibbs and more able to make gametime adjustments on the fly that won games, i do have to wonder what they do that we don't. it seems like we are always a halftime or full quarter behind good teams reacting to what is thrown at us. to give one short example of this: our left guard is being handed his hat. how many max protects or even rollouts to the right did we implement? how many draw plays did we use to slow down the pass rush? how many screens, other than that wasted WR screen did we run in the first half? how long would it take YOU to figure out that it was a problem on that side of the line? would you maybe have changed the type of blocking schemes? would you have given him help on his side? would you have replaced him if he couldn't get the job done? here is a question for all... when our D was on the field how often were our offensive linemen and qb sitting on the sidelines looking at printouts or having discussions on how to compensate for the disaster that unfolded with coaches? anybody? isn't it the OC job up in the booth to understand better what is shaping up on the field because of the overall view and compensate for it? isn't that his purpose of being UP there??

then our OL just needed a good tongue lashing during halftime to become partially effective?

so by your limitations, if another team comes out after half time and beats your brains out the only changes a coach can possibly figure out will be on tuesday watching the game film? hmmmm, 3rd half adjustments? i don't understand where you come up with "harder to implement changes". as a coach it's your freakin job to compensate if you even halfway understand what the hell you are watching on the field. unless your playbook is the size of a comic book your coach SHOULD be able to make changes in play calling and scheme and your players SHOULD be reasonably familiar with it.

i have to ask.... how many times have we seen this during the last 4 years? to play soft zone defense in the last 5 minutes of a game only to get beaten by nearly impossible plays?

what separates the men from the boys in coaching in the nfl is how fast you can adjust DURING the game when everything you went over in that weeks practice isn't working. when your OL is getting shelled how long does it take to adjust called plays to compensate say to max protection, draw plays, screens or a short drop passing attack? if one side of the line is getting no push on running plays for whatever reason how long do you keep trying to run on that side and especially in the red zone? if the other team has 8 or 9 in the box how long does it take to scheme around it and give your offense a real chance to move the chains and open it up? if your TE's are getting double coverage what kind of pass plays and to whom do you throw to to give you relief? how many passes did our 2nd most productive receiver from last year get (forte)? if your qb looks out of sinc how do you change your gameplan to compensate? in my opinion if it takes an entire half to figure this out you are not doing your job at the highest level. i have and am still giving turner 'some' slack but his clock is winding down for me. the problems of the past still seem to haunt this guy and if he can't turn this mess around given the quality of the offensive weapons he has to work with it is imperative we look for another alternative and soon. if we aren't hitting on all cylinders by week 4 then it is time to look at some of the coaching talent elsewhere.

ok then. i agreed that he was at fault (unless it's determined otherwise) with a stupid call and a worse execution of it at that. it was a major turning point in the game. i just had to give this guy the credit he is due as a top player in the nfl which he is and haven't heard much about him in his years in chicago, which is a good thing to hear/not hear about offensive linemen.

so what, what? i don't get what you want. i said the guy screwed up major so what is your final determination? fire him? cut off his hands? have him put to death?

1. i don't have a problem with mannely. this guy is one of if not THE best special teams long snapper in the nfl. but no matter how you cut it it was a stupid play 'especially' when he waited to snap the ball. that said i'm sure he has learned a lot from this instance and i don't look for any future problems from him. 2. if lovie had no part in it, and it appears he didn't if mannely is to be believed, that is fine and good, BUT... to throw a flag in that situation without consulting the booth is inexcusable. this COULD have led to critical mass at the end of a very close game. this is not the first time that smith has abused red flags or timeouts and in my opinion he is atrocious controlling the clock before half time or at the end of games just like jauron.