jason
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Posts posted by jason
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Jason, nobody is buying your "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?" bullshit. You have to grade a player on everything, period. If he still has the legs and athletism to play NFL ball, he doesn't bring enough to the table to justify the risks. This dumb SOB might commit suicide in the middle of the season! He's an idiot and if you want him you can have him play on Jason's XBox Bears. The Chicago Bears don't need him.
I have no clue what you're talking about in the beginning of your post. As for the bolded, the best I can say is, I graded what video there was available. Anyone who objectively looks at it would probably come to the same results I did.
The three valid reasons not to pick up TO:
1) lemon's point - Tired of the Bears picking up aging vets hoping to get their last few years of productivity
2) He's a bad apple, and his antics outweigh his value since a comparably skilled player could be had with much less grief
3) One views his talents and skills as being so greatly diminished that he isn't value added
The first two are legit, but his most recent NFL statistics and his domination of the NFL's minor leagues say that #3 is not legit.
I'm not all that excited about him, but playing devil's advocate on this issue is worthwhile because everyone who cries about the lack of a WR has been dismissing TO and Moss for years and years. And here they were, yet again available, and yet again they're being dismissed. It's as if people want to complain but don't want to actually look for difficult solutions. The perfect answer is not always available. Pointing to #1 and #2 above is not complaining. Pointing to #3 doesn't appear to be valid. I guess complaining is just easier.
What's so hard about dividing the issue? Does he, or does he not, have the physical skills to still play in the NFL? The answer is yes. Does his physical ability outweigh his baggage? Apparently not.
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I've never heard anything bad about Burfict off the field but I still don't see him as a good fit in our scheme. I honestly expected him to run somewhere in the 4.6 range and he's nowhere close to that. Could he get faster? Maybe but I never really saw that much speed from him on the field. I don't think he's necessarily a dirty player as much as he is just not a smart player. I don't see how that translates into good play in the NFL. He's still a UDFA option for the Bears IMO and I'd put my late round picks elsewhere as Emery said on guys who have the measurables but might need some more time to develop the football smarts.
I could be mistaken, but didn't he already improve upon his comine time and run a 4.8?
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Some hate him, some love him, I think he could be a late round steal. ESPN has a new article on him that might change minds.
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Perhaps you should break down his tape in the arena league before you make sure bold statements. You really have no legs to stand on here.
TO's career stats, and stats from 2010 before the injury, provide enough source of balance. Besides that, I have looked at all the film available of TO's time in Arena. Breakdown this highlight reel for instance...
Touchdown #1 - Does not look explosive, but still fast. Drives into his defender until the DB breaks down. Subtle nudge and hard in-cut. Great route, found an open spot in a tight zone.
Touchdown #2 - Again, not explosive off the LOS but fast. Gives an ineffective juke on a stop-and-go. Nonetheless he swim moves and muscles through the defender - this could be illegal contact in the NFL - resulting in an easy throw for the QB.
Touchdown #3 - Explosive off the LOS, beats the press with his initial move, creates separation for the easiest of three TDs.
I know you'll say, "But he's playing against scrubs," but keep in mind you're also the one who asked for arena league tape breakdown. You honestly think I wouldn't have looked at it since I am virtually the only person who thinks he'd be a good addition? Just from the limited film it appears he still understands how to use his speed, size, strength, and knowledge to get open pretty easily. It comes as no surprise that he's basically leading the league in every receiving category per game.
How's that for a leg to stand on? IFL:NFL::AAA:MLB. If a future HoFer gets sent to the "minor leagues" and dominates the "minor leagues," then it makes sense that he's ready to move back up to the pros. He may not be an all-star any more, but he's still NFL-worthy over many others.
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Not bad, but an OLB and CB in rounds 2 or 3 is kind of a waste since they kept Jennings and signed Hayden and Wilhite, and they just signed Hayes along with Costanzo about a month ago.
I think they're going to get DL, DL, OT, S, WR, CB, OLB.
Agreed. My sentiments almost exactly.
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anyone from Penn State or Lsu
Amen on Penn State, unless it's a LB. They make good LBs.
What's up with LSU?
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I found it really interesting how they evaluate a potential LT.
I thought so too. This tells me he thinks the OTs who would slot at 19 are really OG projects. That tells me almost certainly that the Bears are going DL in the first round.
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I think me most people are done with TO because he simply can not run anymore. They always put up with his crap as long as he could play. He's done. Hes not better now than Bennet or Hester. Give it up Jason.
Never.
I understand if people don't like the guy, but it's downright ignorant to pretend that he's not better than many other WRs in the NFL. And if you honestly think he's a worse WR right now than Hester, then I think we've found the source of disagreement. I believe even at 50% he's better than Hester. He has better routes, hands, shielding of the defender, knowledge of how to get open, etc. He knows the WR craft.
I know the Bears will never get him, but it's amazing to me that someone who dominated as recently as he has is suddenly considered worse than guys like Sanzenbacher, a guy who had nearly no business seeing the field this year. That's just ridiculous. There is a Sanzenbacher on every team, and TO is better. But TO and his attitude may not be worth it, which I understand.
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He might make the top 100, but (who cares) NOBODY wants him but you.He may suprize someone and can still play but his bridges are all gone at 38. Your opinion of him just doesnt matter because the people who run football teams dont want him, and I know they are smarter than me.
The bolded part is the important part. They don't want him because bridges are burned and his antics are not worth the risk. But it's not exclusively based on talent.
And I wouldn't sell yourself short. The guys running teams and making these selections aren't geniuses; they just have a bunch of people working for them who have time to put in all sorts of analysis. And even at that they are batting at less than .500.
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Obviously most people take character into account. I guess you don't. And no, I don't think you can say he's got the body of a 25 year old. That's silly. He's a beat up late 30's washed up receiver until he proves otherwise. And I don't see him getting that shot. No GM in the league agrees with you. Not one.
He did push-ups in his driveway all season last year and nobody called. Poor baby.
You have to read the entire post. You obviously aren't doing so. What I'm saying is, antics aside, character aside, he still has the abilities to be in the NFL. He's still better than many other WRs currently occupying roster spots. What is so difficult to comprehend about that simple truth? And it is truth. He's better than many who have contracts.
Different issue: Is his diminished talent AND his attitude worth a chance required by some NFL team? They apparently feel it is not. I can live with that. I'd prefer he was given a shot since I think he can help the Bears, but it's an understandable stance.
But simply saying he's washed up and not better than many other WRs in the NFL is such a bogus statement that it has to be addressed. Even if he's at 75% of his former self, he's still better than many others in the NFL. Especially just about every other team's #3.
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I like the multiple angles this thread has taken already. We will know after this draft if Emery is a guy who brings in people to evaluate or brings in people to blow smoke.
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Moot. Sorry, pet peeve.
Regardless, I don't agree with Jason (or you totally) on this. I think he's not getting looks because his talent has slipped while his high opinion of himself hasn't appropriately adjusted. Anyone else would be humbled by what's happened to him over the last few years. Not TO. He's just as big an asshole today as he's ever been. And no, he isn't better than anyone's #3 in the league. That's dumb, Jason. He hasn't proven he can even perform at an NFL level since people wrote him off. Even the Bears SHOULD be able to find WR's who are better than this fossil, no matter their history of not being able to draft or find FA help on the offensive side of the ball for most of my adult life. Hopefully the new sheriff will prove more capable than Jerry.
Marvin Harrison walked away from the game after 2008. He's only one year older than TO. And he's never been an on-field distraction like Jason's top free agent choice. Randy Moss played for three teams in 2010 and totaled a whooping 28 receptions. He didn't play last year. He's 35. THIRTY-FIVE!!! TO is 38 and has played 15 years, 16 if you count last year when he sat. Harrison only played 13 seasons. There's absolutely no reason to believe Jason, who hasn't seen TO perform any more recently than the GM's in the NFL have, that this douche has anything left in the tank. And when you add his history to the mix, it's ludicrous to even consider adding this cancer to your team.
It's not dumb. There are only a handful of teams that even make a comparison worthwhile. The Giants, Colts, Packers, and Saints are the only teams I can think of that have a #3 who could even compare with TO.
Also, he's not my top FA choice, I just think it's stupid to ignore a guy who could help the team at a position of need. He's better than every WR currently on the roster other than Marshall. And make no mistake, he could help the team. Comparing him to Harrison is apples and oranges because they are two different types of WRs, Harrison has nowhere near the physique of TO, and just two years ago (when TO was in the league), he was still tearing opposing DBs new assholes on a regular basis. Less than a full season and he had nearly 1000 yards and 10 TDs. He plays a full season and those numbers are easily attained. He's not going to be the #1 any more, but to totally disregard him is stupid of the Bears in my opinion. If the Bears had a stable of WRs like the teams mentioned above, then of course I agree with you. Why waste the time? But the simple fact remains, the Bears don't have those WRs.
We'll probably never know because TO won't make it back into the NFL, but you can't honestly believe he's not better than a very large number of WRs who are currently occupying roster spots. That's just an ignorant thought. Of course he's better than at the very least most #3 WRs in the NFL, and probably more than that. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. It's because of this that I honestly think it's a case of being black-balled (justified or not I won't argue). GMs would much rather see a #3 guy who won't cause problems than take a chance with TO. I can't argue the cancer angle; I've never disagreed with it. If that's the major sore spot, then I get it. But to act like this guy is washed up because of his age is just crazy talk for a guy who has kept himself in unbelievable condition over the course of his career. His body, while chronologically mid-30s, is probably a lot closer to mid-20s healthwise. The dude came back from a catastrophic injury in record time to perform in a Super Bowl and has gone through all sorts of craziness, receiving the most complex and advanced treatment in the world to recover from injuries. Again, look at what he did in 2010. Top 20 in nearly every category: yards, TDs, longest reception, receptions per game, yards per game.
Anyone who doesn't think he'd help the Bears on the field must not want any WRs in the draft, because it's an opinion that says, "hey, the WRs are good to go!" If a person's primary issue is TO's locker room antics, then I get it. I just think the gamble is worth it for what he could potentially provide between the stripes.
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You can only make that statement with the comfort of knowing we have Culter under center and not Henry Burris.
HA! Of course, but I feel the problem has been OL for quite some time. Even a guy like Henry Burris, well, maybe not Henry Burris, but a guy who is considered subpar can come in and manage a game very well if given the time to feel comfortable and confident. Just look at what a solid OL did for Rex. It made him so comfortable and confident that he thought he could make every single throw, coverage be damned. In all seriousness, talent at QB is obviously necessary...but the primary problem for 5 or 6 years has always been OL. And it's exactly why the Bears' offense has sucked over that same stretch of times. There are contributing factors, but that's the major symptom to the disease.
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Great research, Lucky! You don't happen to have that in excel or database format do you?
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Haugh had a nice article this morning in the tribune( I am to computer stupid to transfer the article here), about Emery and suggested we are a good Oline away from being a very good team.
Been saying the same thing for years. It's true. Improve the OL to above average and all the offensive woes virtually disappear.
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Nope. Too expensive in terms of picks.
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No you are using the wrong analogy. I said our LT spot is a concern but aside from that, given that we have more competition for our interior spots on the Oline for the backup roles the line has improved. Set the LT position aside from the discussion (i.e. take away the question marks on the LT ) and go from LG to RT. Is there a glaring a need to put a 1st, or 2nd rd pick on fixing those spots? You might feel there is but I don't. Getting to the 3rd rd there might be a talent there to good to pass up if someone falls but otherwise I'm content grabbing a guy in the later rounds. Again, if we are not considering the LT need, then in Rd 1 and 2 I prefer to address DE and one of WR/CB/DT or LB.
Now if the plan is to put Williams back at OT to compete for either starting LT (or be backup OT) then the need to find interior help early in the draft increases and it should be addressed in the early rounds but I think a good OG could be found in Rd 2, and preferably Rd 3. If Williams stays as LG there is still a need IMO to find help early in the draft to fix LT but that doesn't change the fact that I think from LG to RT we have a good Oline.
IIRC two seasons ago we were talking about Johan Asiata stepping up and being a solid backup or possibly a starter. Where is he now? Who was Edwin Williams when we brought him in? I see a big difference in the quality of the backup talent Emery is bringing to our roster versus what JA brought in. I really like having some experienced players in Spencer (JA guy) and Rachal competing with young inexperienced players for jobs. May the best man win. I didn't say Rachal pushed our starting Oline talent up a notch because we still must solidify the LT position but he does increase the talent level and competiton of the backup depth. I view that as a positive plus Emery has only been at this for a couple months and hasn't even had his first draft yet.
The $64,000 question is: Does Tice see LT as that big of a need?
To me, it's simple:
Webb sucks. He's probably the worst OLineman in the NFL. Therefore he needs to be replaced. The options are:
1) Williams
2) Carimi
3) Draft pick
If it's Williams, there is a massive hole at LG.
If it's Carimi, there is a massive hole at RT.
No matter what - and add in the fact that Louis wasn't exactly dominant at RG, merely average - there is definitely a need, under any scenario, for a high draft pick for the OL.
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A couple seasons ago, and really heading into last year before the Spencer deal, our Oline depth was a bunch of guys with potential. Nobody could say anything about guys like E. Williams or some of the other guys we've had as backups. Now we have two backup OG in Spencer and Rachal who were both early round picks and both have played a lot of games. Despite the questions around Rachal both of these guys represent a big upgrade in Oline depth. Take away the question marks on the LT spot and we wouldn't be talking much about Oline for this draft in the early rounds. With the exception of Jason of course.
I realize it's a subtle jab, but if the LT spot were shored up and people began to ignore the flaws of other players, then it's the same problem we've been witnessing for several years. It's not like either Williams was a dominant Guard or Garza was an all-pro Center. Edwin Williams is lucky to be in the NFL, and neither of the other two were great. They were average, and average doesn't cut it in the NFL.
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Bullshit. One of the guys you're talking about isn't getting a look from any team outside the ARENA LEAGUE. How much "infinite talent" do you suppose that guy still has?
He's not being ignored because his lack of talent. He's being ignored because he creates drama and causes problems in the locker room. To say otherwise is ignorant. He's clearly better than many other WRs currently in the NFL, and definitely better than the #3 on any team.
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We've spent a lot of time on mock drafts that we like, disagree with, like partially, etc., but has anyone put together a bizarro draft?
Put together the worst draft you can imagine. Think of the players you hate, the ones that have question marks, the guys that don't fit the Bears' schemes. Slot them appropriately and then draft.
For instance, my nightmare draft starts off like this:
1) Stephen Hill, WR, GT - The guy is raw, unproven, has very minimal tape or stats, played in a JV offensive system in college, and is a combine warrior who has flown up draft charts. That's a collection of red flags.
2) Zack Brown, LB, UNC - Head case, lazy, disinterested. Too many question marks, even though he looks the part, for a guy drafted this high.
3) Zebrie Sanders, OT, FSU - Any player who literally stands still during an entire play, and it's NOT a fumble-rooskie intended for him, is not someone I'd like protecting the franchise QB. That's an unforgiveable mental lapse.
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They should've traded him after the 2007 season, like I've said since then.
No way. Still the best return man in the NFL, and the best in history. Dude has returned six kicks the past two years. He's too much of a threat, too good of a weapon, and he's already a legend. The problem with Hester is that he doesn't get the ball enough.
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Oh for the love of God. You can't be serious.
Bennett and Hester are both slot receivers and Hester is ideally a situational player that comes in for a handful of plays a game. Knox is not playing. Who's our #2?
If whoever we pick in the 2nd round can't beat out Devin Hester at WR I would seriously question the validity of the pick in the first place.
I think you unfairly categorize Bennett. He's the #2.
I don't want a WR in the first two rounds either...but I think it'll happen based on all the visits.
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Yet they have one of the best MNF victories ever when they were "let off the hook", and perhaps it was the best MNF comeback ever. When Urlacher goes into the Hall of Fame that game provides all the highlights needed for his introduction. He was phenomenal.
Yes, that game was great. I loved it. Just thinking about it made me smile. But there are far too many other MNF games that outweigh the memories of one. The 99yd Farv TD on MNF hurts more.
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What is your nightmare draft?
in Bearstalk
Posted
Another nightmare:
With the 79th pick in the NFL draft, the Bears select John Doe, DB, out of West County Texas Tech University at Austin.
I'd rather Emery took players almost exclusively out of a few major conferences than try to double-down like JA was fond of doing.