jason
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Posts posted by jason
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They absolutely need an additional tackle, but I'm not sure either I or they think that they need a "Starting tackle".
They're not wrong when they say that very few tackles in the league would have looked good in Martz's system last year, especially with Edwin Williams playing next door and Hanie in the backfield.
Maybe nobody would have looked "good" last year in the offense, but just about everyone else who played LT in the NFL last year would have looked "better."
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You didn't go to the finals...where the 85 Bears somehow lost in the S.Finals to the Raiders. That's what is so ignorant.
No way that Raiders team hangs with the 85 Bears.
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Why is he overrated?
5'10, 38 inch vertical, 4.4 speed, strong, elite quickness, catches the ball extremely well, plays inside and outside the numbers, etc.. He got better every year at Baylor. What's not to like?
Bad, rounded routes. As we've seen with Knox, this gets Cutler into trouble.
Smaller and weaker. Could have problems getting off the LOS against press coverage.
Benefit of RGIII. Because he had an incredible talent throwing him the ball, and opposing defenses were preoccupied with RGIII, I believe his senior season stats are inflated. Lightning in a bottle, if you will. And because of that, he's being valued higher than he should be. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be decent in the pros, but I don't think he's a first round WR.
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I believe we have our LT in Chris Williams, we're looking for an OG/C IMO
I think you're right...which is what worries and disgusts me. Tice's love-crush with Webb is dangerous for this franchise.
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smh @ overrated WR because he's short..
Where do you see the word "because" in my sentence? I said, "overrated, short".
Is he short? Yes.
Is he overrated? I believe so.
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http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2012.php
1. Kendall Wright, WR
2. Jerel Worthy, DT
3. Cam Johnson, DE
4. Ladarius Green, TE
5. Shaun Prater, CB
Wow. That would suck ass. A short, overrated WR when superior OL talent is there, an inconsistent and somewhat lazy DT, a slow DE with physical problems and possible disease, a TE who is actually a slot WR or H-Back who lacks true TE blocking skills (which is also ignoring the fact that Davis was resigned), and a 5th round CB who is actually pretty good for the round and for Lovie's system.
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It's called scouting. That's how you stay on top of them...
Exactly. And as long as he can send an edge rusher down Cutler's throat via the LT highway, I don't think he's that worried.
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He's not better if he can't get on the field due to injuries. For years people on this board complained about bringing in injury prone players (some have complained about drafting Carimi for that reason). Will Bell be better when he's on the field...yes. Will he be better when he's on the bench injured? Ok, there might be some debate about that one
Eschewing a player because he happened to get injured is not the point. Injuries add up over time and can diminish a players ability. A consistent trend also is indication a player is more likely to get injured again. Like it or not, some people are not as flexible as others, or don't have ligaments as strong as others. There's a reason so many medical teams descend on Indianapolis for the combine. I don't know Bell's injury history but I believe all the NFL teams do and the interest he's received on the market indicates the concern. Again, there are many teams in need of upgrades on their Oline, or at least to have solid depth. Even the Packers appear to be just kicking the tires a bit although they might end up signing him.
Since we didn't do anything in FA to address the Oline my position hasn't changed...we need a step function up in talent and we should make the commitment early in the draft rather than relying on another veteran with question marks.
I agree with the approach (early drafted rookie over busted up pro), but I also think regardless of injury history, if dude can get on the field at all, he's better than Webb.
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I don't know this guy but his resume doesn't sound like he's better than what we have. If Ted Thompson is so smart why did he wait so long to bring this guy in? For years we've had an Oline composed of backups and we need to take a step function up in ability.
HAHAHAHAHA! There is no doubt he's better than Webb.
Now, if you're saying, "Why take a medium step up when we should be taking a large step up for a serious upgrade," then I wholeheartedly agree with you.
But there is no doubt he's better than Webb.
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This appears to be the real reason the Pack are looking at this:
http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6559/derek-sherrod
Their 1st round pick from last year (an OT - note to Jason) doesn't appear to be able to play this year either after breaking his leg last season. Theirs (Packers) is more a case of necessity than want.
All players risk injury. Eschewing a position because your guy happened to get injured is a foolish way to plan for your team's draft.
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David Wilson from Virginia Tech, Doug Martin from Boise State, and Lamar Miller from Miami are the three guys that come to mind right away.
Or hell, for that matter the Bears could go with Bush as their #1 and pick up LaMichael James as a change of pace back in the third/fourth.
If the deal is sweet, I don't have a problem with the trade. 1st and a 3rd oughta do it.
It's BEAR DOWN!, not Forte DOWN.
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you dont play in the NFL, that is not a normal life situation. Call it a prediction of sorts.
Agreed. It's not normal.
But it's more likely someone with incredible medical help, some of the most advanced therapy in the world, and a slew of trainers/doctors/therapists/nutritionists, not to mention nearly unlimited financial support, should be able to accelerate a normal person's rehab schedule. And on top of that, he's an impeccably healthy pro athlete who has nothing to do other than all of the above.
I'm still holding out hope it's PUP and not IR.
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Seriously....
Did anyone really think Knox would be a playing this coming season? We all saw the horrible injury I believe. The reports the Bears put out always left hope, as they are supposed to do. But the reality is that this young man should be lucky that he's walking let alone playing again at an NFL level.
I wish him all the best getting better. But I do not think he'll ever play again.
I honestly thought it was still possible. I came back fully healthy from a torn MCL/ACL in just 3 months. Some people heal quickly. I should know; I'm one of them. I also have experience with things like this because I broke my neck as a young kid and came back from it. And I didn't have the incredible resources a guy like Knox has in his corner.
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But you didn't know that conclusively until the report. Which is why the WR in the first didn't make sense post-Marshall. Now it makes a little more sense, but it's still more prudent to get one of the four LTs if he drops to the Bears at 19, because after that it's very thin. Meanwhile, the WRs in the draft are very deep, and good talent can be found in rounds 2-4.
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HELL NO. At 19, that would be an incredibly stupid pick.
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1. Martin
2. Floyd
3. Coples
I obviously choose OL. I believe the addition of Martin would provide a nearly elite OL of:
Martin-Williams-Garza-Louis-Carimi
But if they think that Williams is ready to move back over to LT, then I'd hope they'd make that move early and pick Floyd.
Floyd would be a great addition, but the Bears already got a guy identical to him in the offseason.
Coples would be a great addition to the D, but I don't think his impact on the DL would be as great as the impact on the OL. This is mostly due to coaching because I don't believe the way the Bears scheme plays Defense, and more specifically rushes the passer, is ideal for an elite pass rusher. They appear to limit the movement of the DE to make him less dynamic by having him rush upfield almost exclusively.
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Jason I have been on board with the thinking that C. Williams is going to go back to LT. You have mentioned this with regularity in your OL posts. The only thing I'm not sure of is if you are in support of this move. I like the idea because of the way I saw him moving when he was pulling and trying to make blocks on the second level. If this can get Webb off the field and back in the learning mode I'm all for it. Because of the lack of bodies provided by the previous GM guys like Louis and Webb were pressed into action prematurely.
I'm ALL in favor of Chris Williams at LT. Hell, if they decide Carimi is the LT, I'm happy with Williams at RT. I want those two guys as the bookends they were drafted to be. I don't subscribe to the "this guy is a LT" and "that guy is a RT" talk. If a guy can play tackle, he can play tackle. Whatever the case is, I want Webb off the field.
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I'm taking the middle ground here.
Was it a slap in the face to Forte? Sure.
Is Forte handling it incredibly badly? Absolutely.
Would it have happened if Forte had signed the fair deal he was offered? Nope.
Was it a wise business decision by the Bears? Maybe.
Sure, they've hedged their bets on a Forte hold out, but now they've essentially said they're willing to go through the season with Bush as the #1 if Forte decides to hold out. But at the same time, they've told potential FAs that they play hardball with their own guys, and this could be something that dissuades other FAs from coming to the team.
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Well heres how I see it Jason. Stats can be skewed how you wanna view them. (Ask politicians). For example where you see a trend of lackluster play by the Oline over the course of years you illustrate, I see that the difference between 2010 and '11 is that the line improved. And that Omiyale wasn't listed for last years lineup.
My point is that of the Bears' last two 1st round picks, two were OLmen. And more specifically they were both LTs. And of the two of them, neither played more than Webb did last year at the position. Am I suggesting that Webb (a seventh rounder?) is better than both Williams and Carimi at their "natural" positions? Nope. I'm just saying that picking an OLman with the 1st pick does not guarantee success. Whereas using the 1st round pick on a skill player is a better investment. And with the other key players already in place (Cutler, Forte and Marshall) it is that much more a wiser choice.
Understood, but there are just as many 1st round WR busts as OL. Actually, I'd bet there are more.
The fact that neither Williams nor Carimi were slotted ahead of Webb when the season began is an indictment of Tice as a talent evaluator more than anything. Once the injuries happened all bets were off. Tice has a history of categorizing his OLinemen based on unique characteristics, and I think it hinders his creativity at times. In other words, as soon as he says "Webb is a LT" or "Carimi is a RT," that's where he sees them, and only where he sees them. He'll move them around if injuries force his hand, but he'd rather put them where he sees them.
As for the year-by-year breakdown, it's pretty hard to argue that those stats lie. Those are cumulative offensive stats for the entire year. And there is only one year the Bears aren't in the bottom half of the league: the year they had a stable OL with highly drafted talent.
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Waiting for everyone to chime in about how much they despise this pick. After all, dude is only 5'10".
I wouldn't like the pick because that would mean the Bears are taking the leftovers in RD1. If Wright is there that means an equally or higher rated LT or DE is there, and I'd much rather see one of those guys because LT and DE are much thinner than WR. Hell, the Bears could get a LT/DE in #1 and still get a very good guy at #2 (Randle, Jeffery, Sanu) and another good guy at #3 (Toon, McNutt, Criner, Jones).
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I must be in minority because I liked Louis at RG. He didn't play well as RT (but a heck of a lot better than Omiyale) but after a rough start early in the season he was getting pretty good at RG before the switch. You have a detailed eye for Oline play so what is it you don't like about Louis at RG and why don't you think he'll improve there?
I've said numerous times that Louis was the best of the worst. By that I mean, he was average at best, but looked good because he's been in a unit with E.Williams, Webb, Spencer, Omiyale the past two years. I think he's got decent push at times, bad feet, and let's defenders get too far into his body on a regular basis. Better at run blocking than pass blocking, IMO. What I do like about him alot, however, is his tenacity and his aggressive behavior. On screens he almost always follows-up even if he's not leading the play. On loose balls he always hustles. And we all saw him chase down Cameron Wimbley in the Oakland game last year.
Louis > Omiyale at OT? Absolutely
Lous good at OT? No
Louis good at OG? No
Louis average with upside at OG? Yes
If the OL has Louis in is, I wouldn't be upset. But I would hope that means the Bears either drafted a first round LT, or moved Chris Williams to LT while drafting a first/second round OG or C (which would mean Garza moves back to OG).
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So what happened to Spencer? Seems to me that he managed to play Guard pretty well last year and is normally a Center. Yet he's not listed anywhere in your "lineup".
I don't get this "panic" some are expressing here. The team was 7-3(??) before Cutler got hurt. And as Terra pointed out that was not due to an OL breakdown. Again, and it bears repeating, picking an olineman anywhere earlier than 2nd round is a wasted pick. Again this is my humble opinion but a skill player is what is needed in 1st and sometimes 2nd round. The Bears are better off looking at a WR or CB before OL in the draft. Look some more in FA for OL help. Heck we got until June.
That play Cutler got hurt on wasn't the fault of the OL, but there were certainly ample opportunities for him to get demolished behind the OL. Spencer, along with Louis, Edwin Williams, and Webb were somewhere between horrible and average. Louis is probably the only one of the group closer to average. The team was 7-3 in spite of the OL, not because of them. It's just like the years with Wanny and Jauron; when the Bears won, it was often not because of the coaching, but in spite of them.
On another note, your logic can be used against you. The Bears were 7-3 before Cutler got injured, so they couldn't have been doing too bad on offense or defense. Right? Obviously it's too simplistic a statement to really apply towards the entire team or a unit. Record is just is not indicative of anything other than overall team success. I can't be expressed enough how bad the OL was. And because several have short memories, or get enamored with big name skill position players, or choose to misrepresent how bad the OL was because they know others won't fact check, the facts need to always be on the front burner:
Rushing
-Last in negative plays rushing right
-10th worst in negative plays rushing left
-Last in number of rushes stuffed behind or at the LOS
Passing
-5th worst in sacks allowed
-5th worst in QB hits allowed
-Last in adjusted sack rate (i.e. sacks divided by pass plays)
In your humble opinion it's a waste to draft OL early, but in my humble opinion that philosophy has greatly contributed to the Bears having one of the worst offenses in the league for quite some time.
2011 - 24th (Webb, Williams, Garza, Spencer, Louis)
2010 - 30th (Omiyale, Williams, Kruetz, Garza, Webb)
2009 - 23rd (Pace, Omiyale, Kruetz, Garza, Williams)
2008 - 26th (St. Clair, Beekman, Kruetz, Garza, Tait)
2007 - 27th (Tait, Brown, Kruetz, Garza, Miller)
2006 - 15th (Tait, Brown, Kruetz, Garza, Miller)
2005 - 29th (Tait, Brown, Kruetz, Metcalf, Miller)
2004 - 32nd (Q.Mitchell, Brown, Kruetz, Edwards, Tait)
2003 - 28th (Gandy, Edwards, Kruetz, Villarrial, Gibson)
2002 - 29th (Gandy, Doggins, Kruetz, Villarrial, Williams)
See a trend? The ONLY time in the past ten years the Bears had moderate offensive success was 2006. The year they went to the Super Bowl. The year they had 4 out of 5 guys at the same position from the year before. The year they replaced the one weak spot from the year before with a better player. The year they had a solid starter at every position. The year they had 2 first-rounders playing next to one another. The fact that they found Kruetz in the third is great. The fact that they signed Miller in the twilight of his career is more lightning in a bottle than anything. A 5th rounder can't be expected to produce as consistently as Miller did. And Garza has been a very nice surprise.
I'm not saying early picks on OL is the only way to go, but given the past decade of Bears successes and failures, I'd say it gives you a definite offensive advantage.
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I'm not a big fan of Hester as a RB. Too small and it keeps him inside where it's easier to defend him. I also don't like seeing him take hits from Dlinemen. He needs space and Brandon Marshall should be the right person to create that for him.
Agreed. And I have had about enough of seeing Hester run an end around or a reverse. When he starts towards the middle, EVERYONE knows what the play is. I'd much rather see him start towards the middle and run a shallow crossing route where he tries to rub the defender off of a linebacker or an official.
Just wanted to say thanks!!!
in Bearstalk
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You still don't get it.
NOBODY WAS AGAINST THREE WRS! NEARLY EVERYONE IS AGAINST MARSHALL+GOOD FA+1ST ROUNDER And that's what you were calling for. Signing Weems and Thomas is not what you were calling for. So, once again, you are/were not right. My goodness, man, how many times do you have to read this for it to sink in? Do I literally have to go back and start posting links to your comments about this?!
I believe you are right, however, about Komar. If he's on the team I'll be shocked.
And if you expect people to read the entirety of your posts, then perhaps you should read their entire posts. Our original issue happened because you made a stupid comment when you didn't read the entire post I made about Knox's health. The original reply you made was stupid. To get your panties in a twist over a commonly used synonym (i.e. braindead) is a little much. Notice I didn't get upset when you obviously took it from level 1 all the way to level 11.