Giants at Bears Week 12 - Don't Care Bowl Official Game Thread (Sun, Nov 24, 12:00 PM CT/FOX/Bears -6.0, O/U 40.5

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Doesn’t GB play SF tonight? 

[adam]

3 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Doesn’t GB play SF tonight? 

Yes, GB tonight, LAR on MNF. Hoping for those two teams to lose. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

19 minutes ago, adam said:

Yes, GB tonight, LAR on MNF. Hoping for those two teams to lose. 

Sorry, missed your comment on that the first time.  I’m feeling good about SF winning tonight, they are a solid team and are at home (they are where the Bears should be).  GB is totally one-dimensional.
 

Rams should lose too. The Bears had LA on the ropes and could have beat them but didn’t in spite of themselves.  Baltimore’s on a roll.  

[adam]

15 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Sorry, missed your comment on that the first time.  I’m feeling good about SF winning tonight, they are a solid team and are at home (they are where the Bears should be).  GB is totally one-dimensional.
 

Rams should lose too. The Bears had LA on the ropes and could have beat them but didn’t in spite of themselves.  Baltimore’s on a roll.  

We are seriously two or three plays away from being 7-4, and MIN should be 7-4 after that ridiculous win against DEN, down by 20 at half, and DEN completely folded.

[adam]

GB got smoked on National TV, and Rodgers ends the game with 104 passing yards. Check out his last 3 games vs Trubisky's last 3 games:

Rodgers - 60-97, 61.9%, 498 YDS, 5.1 Y/A, 2 TD, 0 INT, 10 sacks, 1 FL
Trubisky - 65-107, 60.7%, 641 YDS, 6.0 Y/A, 5 TD, 3 INT, 8 sacks, 1 Rush TD

I can't believe another QB has a worse Y/A than Trubisky has, that is hilarious. GB just got exposed and something is clearly wrong with Rodgers. They go to NY to play the Giants, then at home against the Redskins. If they could somehow split those games, they would then have to play us and MIN. If somehow we won and they lost to MIN, we could be tied going into Week 17, both at 9-6. Obviously we still have to win out to have a chance, but it's still possible. 

[adam]

Here is what we are up against. Besides having to win out (highly unlikely, but crazier things have happened), we still need help to make the playoffs. It's not out of the realm of possible after seeing GB stink up the joint on SNF.

There is a key matchup between MIN and GB in Week 16. Then MIN plays us Week 17, which might determine who gets into the playoffs. MIN has 3 prime time games (SEA, LAC, and GB). I could see them losing all of them for how bad Cousins plays in prime time. If they do that, Week 17 could be a play in game for WC2. 

GB just got destroyed, and now has to travel across the country (West coast to East coast after a Sunday Night game) to play a noon game on Sunday. I could see them losing to the Giants, then beating the Redskins at home before our huge game against them in Week 15. Ultimately, we have 5 straight playoff games and two games against teams we are trying to catch. They also play each other, which will give us a chance to make up a game on one of those teams and two on the other. The other game could be made up this week. If we can beat DET, MIN loses in SEA and GB loses in NY, we are now only 2 games back (with a head to head against each and the common game where one of them will lose). That's not that far back, especially if we can cut it to two games with 4 to play.

Here are the scenarios:

If MIN beats GB:

DIV. Bears beat DET, beat DAL, beat GB, beat KC, beat MIN, finish 10-6, 5-1 DIV, 8-4 CONF (winning out is the only option, any loss and the season is over)
WC2. Vikings lose to Seattle, beat Lions, lose to Chargers, beat Packers, lose to Bears, finish 10-6, 3-3 DIV, 8-4 CONF
OUT. Packers lose to NYG, beat Redskins, lose to Bears, lose to Vikings, beat Lions, finish 10-6, 4-2 DIV, 7-5 CONF

If GB beats MIN:

DIV. Packers lose to NYG, beat Redskins, lose to Bears, beat Vikings, beat Lions, finish 11-5, 5-1 DIV, 8-4 CONF
WC2. Bears beat DET, beat DAL, beat GB, beat KC, beat MIN, finish 10-6, 5-1 DIV, 8-4 CONF (there is an outside shot to get in at 9-7, but MIN would have to lose to SEA, LAC, GB, and CHI and we would win the head-to-head tiebreaker 2-0)
OUT. Vikings lose to Seattle, beat Lions, beat Chargers, lose Packers, lose to Bears, finish 10-6, 2-4 DIV, 7-5 CONF

Thanksgiving is going to be huge. If we can somehow carve out a win, we are really going to put pressure on the other two teams. We then get a mini-bye before playing DAL at home. DAL also gets a mini-bye, but they have a much tougher opponent in the Bills. 

[Lucky Luciano]

11 hours ago, adam said:

GB got smoked on National TV, and Rodgers ends the game with 104 passing yards. Check out his last 3 games vs Trubisky's last 3 games:

Rodgers - 60-97, 61.9%, 498 YDS, 5.1 Y/A, 2 TD, 0 INT, 10 sacks, 1 FL
Trubisky - 65-107, 60.7%, 641 YDS, 6.0 Y/A, 5 TD, 3 INT, 8 sacks, 1 Rush TD

I can't believe another QB has a worse Y/A than Trubisky has, that is hilarious. GB just got exposed and something is clearly wrong with Rodgers. They go to NY to play the Giants, then at home against the Redskins. If they could somehow split those games, they would then have to play us and MIN. If somehow we won and they lost to MIN, we could be tied going into Week 17, both at 9-6. Obviously we still have to win out to have a chance, but it's still possible. 

trubisky looks serviceable to me at this time.

he looks like he could *possibly take a step forward as an good to good + qb in the future. it is hard to really judge his talent or improvement behind this offensive line and the amount of drops this receiving corp has displayed.

1. he has no running game. the rb's are getting hit nearly at the handoff 1-2 yards behind the line of scrimmage. no qb i know of can operate an offense with only one dimension of the game for any sustained positive results.

2. this line can't even hold the line of scrimmage on passing plays. they are getting pushed back into the pocket (where it appears he is being taught or forced to operate from) or actually pushed into the qb and the ends are coming in as a pincer move to make the tackles or hurry or disrupt the play.

3. this smacks almost as badly as cutler running for his life at the snap. he has lost confidence that this OL will protect him. that alone will cause serious growth problems and his ability to see the whole field and wait for the open receiver.

4. the consistency of this receiving corp and the amount of drops are disgustingly bad. throw in either the receivers don't know or quit on the routes or trub doesn't. this not only upsets the drive but puts the qb in a forced to throw situation, negates long gains due to YAC or just longer routes which stretches the defense.

5. penalties: it's like a merry go round of penalties. which lineman will have one or more penalties per drive. these are drive stoppers.

6. quite frankly he is injured at this time. you can see him limping during the game that says the hip problem is real. he also has the non throwing arm injury that will ultimately cause some problems with his game.

7. the play calling and coaching staff are not doing him any favors either.

* trubisky has many things to fix even to become that average qb over time. it all depends on his mental capacity to read defenses and see the whole field QUICKLY as apposed to locking in on one receiver and forcing the ball in. he may never do this but with the supporting cast he has it will take longer to evaluate.

he has shown pretty good accuracy on the shorter throws up to 10 yds. he has the arm strength and quickness. his biggest problem (see above also) so far is touch on anything over that mark. that HAS to be fixed if he is to succeed.

is he an elite qb? at this time certainly not and probably not in his future although that 'could' change with a good supporting cast and a few more years of experience. that said, there should be a serious, honest qb competition in his future.

finally, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater quite yet but keep a tight rein on him as standard practice. if it doesn't improve with better line play then cut your losses.

 

[BearFan PHX]

I agree with you guys. Maybe Trubisky and Nagy will never pan out. Maybe they are both busts.

But if you're gonna try to keep the baby and only lose the bathwater, you gotta pick which one youre gonna try to rehabilitate without the other.

For me, a successfully rehabbed Trubisky is harder to replace than a rehabbed Nagy. Coaches are free agents and dont require draft picks or cap room. Plus Im seeing more light at the end of the tunnel with Trubisky than with Nagy.

Like I said, maybe they will both flame out, but if you want to try to save one by seeing if they can thrive without the other, my money is on Trubisky.

[Mongo3451]

I looks to me that Nagy is adapting and Trubisky has looked serviceable the last two games as a result.  Notice the amount of bootlegs and rollouts?  Now, get a couple of running plays that work.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I looks to me that Nagy is adapting and Trubisky has looked serviceable the last two games as a result.  Notice the amount of bootlegs and rollouts?  Now, get a couple of running plays that work.

I couldn’t help notice that in last nights game both GB and SF ran a variation (or had elements) of the offense Nagy runs.  Of course we’ve all heard how the NFL is the copy cat league, but the issue with Nagy is timing.  He has a tendency to call the wrong play at the wrong time and stick with what isn’t working.  I’d agree that he is adjusting better to the game (unfortunately it took over half a season to figure it out).  
 

With Trubisky it’s execution.  I went on this string yesterday during the game and commented how well he was playing.  That was before his second interception and near misses with two others (one time into triple coverage). He still has spurts of solid play surrounded by others of not so good play.  
 

Watching the highlights of yesterday’s Bears game and the night game were not only literally night and day, figuratively as well.  When SF runs their offense, even with Garrapolo being super mundane they collectively execute it well.  (GB does well too but it’s apparent they are very one-dimensional).  Hell they (SF) even ran a few plays with an actual fullback.  From what I saw it was when they needed short yardage or were close to their own end zone.   To me Shannahan is well ahead of Nagy running the same (or similar) offense or at the very least making the calls.  

[madlithuanian]

6 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

trubisky looks serviceable to me at this time.

he looks like he could *possibly take a step forward as an good to good + qb in the future. it is hard to really judge his talent or improvement behind this offensive line and the amount of drops this receiving corp has displayed.

1. he has no running game. the rb's are getting hit nearly at the handoff 1-2 yards behind the line of scrimmage. no qb i know of can operate an offense with only one dimension of the game for any sustained positive results.

2. this line can't even hold the line of scrimmage on passing plays. they are getting pushed back into the pocket (where it appears he is being taught or forced to operate from) or actually pushed into the qb and the ends are coming in as a pincer move to make the tackles or hurry or disrupt the play.

3. this smacks almost as badly as cutler running for his life at the snap. he has lost confidence that this OL will protect him. that alone will cause serious growth problems and his ability to see the whole field and wait for the open receiver.

4. the consistency of this receiving corp and the amount of drops are disgustingly bad. throw in either the receivers don't know or quit on the routes or trub doesn't. this not only upsets the drive but puts the qb in a forced to throw situation, negates long gains due to YAC or just longer routes which stretches the defense.

5. penalties: it's like a merry go round of penalties. which lineman will have one or more penalties per drive. these are drive stoppers.

6. quite frankly he is injured at this time. you can see him limping during the game that says the hip problem is real. he also has the non throwing arm injury that will ultimately cause some problems with his game.

7. the play calling and coaching staff are not doing him any favors either.

* trubisky has many things to fix even to become that average qb over time. it all depends on his mental capacity to read defenses and see the whole field QUICKLY as apposed to locking in on one receiver and forcing the ball in. he may never do this but with the supporting cast he has it will take longer to evaluate.

he has shown pretty good accuracy on the shorter throws up to 10 yds. he has the arm strength and quickness. his biggest problem (see above also) so far is touch on anything over that mark. that HAS to be fixed if he is to succeed.

is he an elite qb? at this time certainly not and probably not in his future although that 'could' change with a good supporting cast and a few more years of experience. that said, there should be a serious, honest qb competition in his future.

finally, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater quite yet but keep a tight rein on him as standard practice. if it doesn't improve with better line play then cut your losses.

 

Great points...  Given that he more than likely will be around next year to at least compete for the job.

[madlithuanian]

3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I couldn’t help notice that in last nights game both GB and SF ran a variation (or had elements) of the offense Nagy runs.  Of course we’ve all heard how the NFL is the copy cat league, but the issue with Nagy is timing.  He has a tendency to call the wrong play at the wrong time and stick with what isn’t working.  I’d agree that he is adjusting better to the game (unfortunately it took over half a season to figure it out).  
 

With Trubisky it’s execution.  I went on this string yesterday during the game and commented how well he was playing.  That was before his second interception and near misses with two others (one time into triple coverage). He still has spurts of solid play surrounded by others of not so good play.  
 

Watching the highlights of yesterday’s Bears game and the night game were not only literally night and day, figuratively as well.  When SF runs their offense, even with Garrapolo being super mundane they collectively execute it well.  (GB does well too but it’s apparent they are very one-dimensional).  Hell they (SF) even ran a few plays with an actual fullback.  From what I saw it was when they needed short yardage or were close to their own end zone.   To me Shannahan is well ahead of Nagy running the same (or similar) offense or at the very least making the calls.  

Great observations Griz!