Flus and Getsy on the hot seat?

[adam]

So preseason wasn't a fluke. All they threw were screen passes. Greg Braggs said that he didn't see many long throws in training camp, and was concerned. Well that played out yesterday to a T. 

[Stinger226]

Its a little early to say hot seat but the coaches are building a resume that may not look good by mid season.

[adam]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:41 AM, Stinger226 said:

Its a little early to say hot seat but the coaches are building a resume that may not look good by mid season.

Only one team has an active losing streak in the double digits, the Chicago Bears at 11. No coach from the previous decade has survived a longer losing streak. If the Bears lose to TB, with KC in Week 3, it looks like it will be 13. How many more losses do you need to evaluate a coaching staff? They had 2 offseasons and majority of the roster has been turned over. So it is either talent (on the GM), coaching, or player performance, or a combination of those.

If it is all of the above, the Bears are screwed for the next 5+ years. If it is just coaching, this year is already over. The only thing that can change is the player performances as they get better working as a unit.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, adam said:

The only thing that can change is the player performances as they get better working as a unit.

Fields came out after the last game and apologized to the fans for how they played.   Moore made a comment of how surprised he was to be booed as early as the second quarter.  I remember two years ago when Justin was a rookie and it was announced he would be making his first start the following weekend. His parents wanted to take him out and celebrate.  He told them he needed to prepare and wouldn’t be able to go out.

Justin knows how to win and wants to.  His collegiate career and work ethic both prove that.  Has he been slow on the uptick to being ‘game prepared’?  Yes.  Is that because he can’t do it?  I don’t think so.  I’d agree that having the starters sit out more during the preseason wasn’t a great idea, especially with hindsight being 20/20.  I know we’ve discussed in the past that it sometimes takes 3-4 weeks before teams start to gel.  I don’t think our team has that luxury and I think Justin knows it.  Week 2 will indeed be telling how things will go from here forward.  I have faith Justin will show us why he’s our starter.  

[adam]

Last season, there were 3 in season firings:

CAR fired Rhule after Week 5 (starting 1-4). He finished with a 11-27 record (.289 winning%). Flus has a .157 winning%

Reich was fired in IND after a 3-5-1 start in his 6th season. He left IND with a 40-33-1 record. 

Denver fired Hackett in his first season after going 4-11.

All of those coaches had more wins in their first 3 weeks of that season than Flus does in his last 12 games. 

Just to get back to .500 as a HC, Flus would need the Bears to finish the season 8-7 in the last 15, then go 10-7 for the next 5 seasons, just to get to .500. LOL.

[adam]

To put how bad Flus has been as a HC, here are all the coaches worse than him in the Super Bowl era with 20+ games coached:

1. Jim Ringo - BUF 3-20, .130, 23 games (BUF, 76-77)
2. Matt Eberflus - CHI 3-17, .150, 20 games (CHI, 22-23)
3. Marty Mornhinweg - DET - 5-27, .156, 32 games (DET, 01-02)
4. Chris Palmer CLE - 5-27, .156, 32 games  (CLE, 99-00)
--------------------------------------------------------
5. Matt Eberflus - CHI 3-16, .158, 19 games (CHI, 22-23)
 

So after a loss against KC, Flus will have the 2nd lowest winning percentage in NFL history for a coach with 20+ games coached. Seriously people. If he was to lose 3 more after KC and start 0-6, he would be tied for the worst coach EVER with 20+ games coached. EVER. 

[adam]

I think if the Bears drop to 0-4 and lose a second one at home, Flus is gone. That would put him at 3-18 as a Head Coach. No one has ever survived that long being that bad.

[Stinger226]

Dan Campbell was 3-13-1 in 2021 and went 1-6 coming out of the gate last year. I dont remember, did Lions fans call for blood at that time? They had more draft capital because they were so bad for a long time. The lions are now considered a up and coming playoff contender. I think I can say  safely that every situation is different . Poles came here with the worst roster in the league and a terrible cap space . We didnt have a first round pick and had serval over paid vets on the team. 

Unfortunately when you're losing everyone gets hammered  and everyone deserves some blame for a poor record . I am sticking up for Poles at this time because he never promised a rose garden 19 games into a rebuild. He said 3-4 years to completely change the roster. It is clear to see Flus doesnt have a quality roster yet.. 

He said he wanted to rebuild the roster thru the draft    2022- Brisker-Blackwell-Gordon-Carter-Gill-Hicks-B Jones-J Jones-V Jones-D Robinson-Sanborn Kramer

2023-Bagent-Dexter-Q Johnson-R Johnson-Pickens-Scott-Sewell- Stevenson-Wright  Didn't put anyone on the practice squad on this list.

At this point it looks like the Claypool trade and V Jones were mistakes but actually the jury is still out.

He hired Flus and whether that works out is still up in the air.

There is still lots of questions but Flus has yet to get a stellar amount of talent to work with yet. The key will be if young players get better and we start to win more games. He will get this year to right the ship.

Last year a lot of people were worried that we might lose Getsy because of? The jury is still out and clearly has blame . This is something that could be changed in season but I dont think we are there yet.

 

 

[adam]

50 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Dan Campbell was 3-13-1 in 2021 and went 1-6 coming out of the gate last year. I dont remember, did Lions fans call for blood at that time? They had more draft capital because they were so bad for a long time. The lions are now considered a up and coming playoff contender. I think I can say  safely that every situation is different . Poles came here with the worst roster in the league and a terrible cap space . We didnt have a first round pick and had serval over paid vets on the team. 

Unfortunately when you're losing everyone gets hammered  and everyone deserves some blame for a poor record . I am sticking up for Poles at this time because he never promised a rose garden 19 games into a rebuild. He said 3-4 years to completely change the roster. It is clear to see Flus doesnt have a quality roster yet.. 

He said he wanted to rebuild the roster thru the draft    2022- Brisker-Blackwell-Gordon-Carter-Gill-Hicks-B Jones-J Jones-V Jones-D Robinson-Sanborn Kramer

2023-Bagent-Dexter-Q Johnson-R Johnson-Pickens-Scott-Sewell- Stevenson-Wright  Didn't put anyone on the practice squad on this list.

At this point it looks like the Claypool trade and V Jones were mistakes but actually the jury is still out.

He hired Flus and whether that works out is still up in the air.

There is still lots of questions but Flus has yet to get a stellar amount of talent to work with yet. The key will be if young players get better and we start to win more games. He will get this year to right the ship.

Last year a lot of people were worried that we might lose Getsy because of? The jury is still out and clearly has blame . This is something that could be changed in season but I dont think we are there yet.

 

Good point, there are cases where coaches have started out terrible and righted the ship, but it is rare.

Campbell was on the hot seat. If not for that turnaround at the end of the season, he is canned. If they would've lost one or two more games, he was gone. 

Can Flus do the same thing? Detroit had a top 5 offense but their defense was terrible. At some point the defense improved enough to win some games. There defense allowed 24 or more in every game in that 1-6 stretch, then in the remaining games allowed less than 24 in 7 out of 10 games (all wins).

The Bears have the 22nd ranked scoring offense and 31st defense. They don't even have a top 20 unit that they can lean on. With injuries to Gordon and Jackson on defense, that secondary is now a weakness. The team has 1 sack, lol. There are 33 players with 1.5 sacks or more. There is nothing they do well. Detroit had an elite passing game and Williams was unstoppable inside the 5. 

 

It does take 3 years for a complete rebuild and we are 2 weeks into year 2. However, at some point, the corner of the turnaround should be visible. Right now the team is trending in the wrong direction. They were 1-7 in one score games last year. They have yet to even play in one in the first two weeks. Again, small sample size, but we already know how Sunday will turn out, so we can assume it's 3 weeks and 0-3, and 3-17. 

Now that I think about it, the WAS game on TNF will be the breaking point. If they can't beat Denver at home (OCT 1st), it would be 0-4, 3-18, and then another loss 4 nights later would put them at 0-5, 3-19 with a mini-bye and the trading deadline approaching. Someone is getting fired. To even get to your projected win total of 7.5 games, they would have to go 7-5 or 8-4 in the last 12 games. 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

13 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Dan Campbell was 3-13-1 in 2021 and went 1-6 coming out of the gate last year. I dont remember, did Lions fans call for blood at that time? They had more draft capital because they were so bad for a long time. The lions are now considered a up and coming playoff contender. I think I can say  safely that every situation is different . Poles came here with the worst roster in the league and a terrible cap space . We didnt have a first round pick and had serval over paid vets on the team. 

Unfortunately when you're losing everyone gets hammered  and everyone deserves some blame for a poor record . I am sticking up for Poles at this time because he never promised a rose garden 19 games into a rebuild. He said 3-4 years to completely change the roster. It is clear to see Flus doesnt have a quality roster yet.. 

He said he wanted to rebuild the roster thru the draft    2022- Brisker-Blackwell-Gordon-Carter-Gill-Hicks-B Jones-J Jones-V Jones-D Robinson-Sanborn Kramer

2023-Bagent-Dexter-Q Johnson-R Johnson-Pickens-Scott-Sewell- Stevenson-Wright  Didn't put anyone on the practice squad on this list.

At this point it looks like the Claypool trade and V Jones were mistakes but actually the jury is still out.

He hired Flus and whether that works out is still up in the air.

There is still lots of questions but Flus has yet to get a stellar amount of talent to work with yet. The key will be if young players get better and we start to win more games. He will get this year to right the ship.

Last year a lot of people were worried that we might lose Getsy because of? The jury is still out and clearly has blame . This is something that could be changed in season but I dont think we are there yet.

 

 

I feel like Jets were same way with Saleh. Early in 2nd season he was a laughing stock and now despite qb issues he isn’t. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I feel like Jets were same way with Saleh. Early in 2nd season he was a laughing stock and now despite qb issues he isn’t. 

He’s had a formidable defense (in SF and in NYJ) to back up his chops . Things looked good (for him) when the “owner” signed on and just like that they were staring at having to go back to Zach Wilson. We’ll see if he can string together some wins despite it. His situation currently isn’t all that much different than Flus. 
 

I’m concerned (not giving up … yet) that Flus’ defense isn’t up to par.  You need at least one phase to produce to succeed.  So far, none have.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

13 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

He’s had a formidable defense (in SF and in NYJ) to back up his chops . Things looked good (for him) when the “owner” signed on and just like that they were staring at having to go back to Zach Wilson. We’ll see if he can string together some wins despite it. His situation currently isn’t all that much different than Flus. 
 

I’m concerned (not giving up … yet) that Flus’ defense isn’t up to par.  You need at least one phase to produce to succeed.  So far, none have.  

I expect we will see material improvements in defense. Especially once secondary gets healthier and guys are more used to each other. With that said - I don’t expect top 10 cause pass rush blows - but that isn’t a flus thing. I expect by middle of this season we are talking about a number of young players on rise and defense trending up. 
 

I was hoping for same on offense but with a much faster start. At this point - really want to see what Fields can or can’t do in an offense built to maximize and highlight his strengths.