BearFan PHX Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 30 minutes ago, CrackerDog said: I don’t know that 10 wins is his ceiling but the way I made peace with the whole thing is his value is based on his dynamic play making in the run game and that makes him WAY more susceptible to injury. Fields was an incredible open field runner. I compared him to Devin Hester. In 2022, he was a threat to score anytime he touched the ball as a runner. But then in 2023, they told him if he was in the open field, and a defender came up to him, that he should slide. Which is smart, because of injury as you say. But it took away the biggest part of his game. I think another way to say it is that Fields' skill set didn't really translate that well to the QB position, but he is as dynamic an open field runner as anyone, including Hester and Sayers. 30 minutes ago, CrackerDog said: IAll this said, I still feel Fields wasn’t given a fair shake, one that he would have gotten elsewhere in the league if we didn’t draft him. No one can really argue this. From Nagy to Getsy, while gutting the team to clear the roster and salary cap, in 2021 and 2022 Justin Fields had an impossible job. In 2021 he had no one to throw to, and all along he had too much pressure in his face from defenses. It was an impossible job, and no one could have taken the 2021 Bears to the playoffs. This is all true. The only thing I'd say is that it doesn't prove the Fields would be good without those impediments either, and I saw him enough in clean pockets staring down open receivers and not pulling the trigger to make a judgement. I feel that Justin may have developed better had he not been in such a nightmarish situation, but i also think that fields himself is never going to be a top QB because while he has all the prototypical athletic skills to be an amazing QB, he doesn't seem to be able to read defenses or get through progressions fast and get rid of the ball. Put Bagent's brain in Fields' body, and we'd have traded the #1 pick this year, because that Bagent/Fields creation would be as good as any QB. There were many plays during that period where he did have time, and guys were open and he looked right at them but didn't throw the ball. So I think the bad football was a team effort, and Justin was just as much a part of it as everyone else. But there is no denying his incredible athletic ability, including his arm! And he did have an impossible situation, and he does seem like a good guy too. But still, I saw enough on film, and apparently so did the league to judge him anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 32 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: fair enough. I would counter that Fields is worse than those other QBs, but given the event that about to unfold, i will leave it be I cant wait for Caleb Williams. I am so excited for our future. We have waited for 40 years, wandering in NFL desert, to be relevant again, and we have never had a QB like Williams in franchise history. We are the only franchise in the league to have never had a 4,000 yard passing season in our history. And we are about to get a guy that could potentially be one of the best ever. We are looking at super bowls, and Packer dominance. A long time coming, and I am SO ready for this next chapter! I hope you are correct but his history says he could just as easily fumble his way out of town. 30 fumbles in college is a lot and defenders only get bigger faster and smarter in the NFL. As Jay Gruden said if those fumbles were INTs people would be questioning it a lot more. There’s a lot of talk that he’s a finished product yet he has many things to improve up in the NFL. He’s not the tallest either so I’m expecting teams will try to keep him in the pocket and avoid those extended plays. His quick release will help him avoid batted passes. Not to mention all the crazy arm angles he throws from. It’ll be really hard for a DT to predict the release point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 8 minutes ago, AZ54 said: I hope you are correct but his history says he could just as easily fumble his way out of town. 30 fumbles in college is a lot and defenders only get bigger faster and smarter in the NFL. As Jay Gruden said if those fumbles were INTs people would be questioning it a lot more. There’s a lot of talk that he’s a finished product yet he has many things to improve up in the NFL. He’s not the tallest either so I’m expecting teams will try to keep him in the pocket and avoid those extended plays. His quick release will help him avoid batted passes. Not to mention all the crazy arm angles he throws from. It’ll be really hard for a DT to predict the release point. he definitely has things to work on. his potential and attitude have me excited, but no QB who doesnt grow from the day they enter the league will do anything. he absolutely has to go through that journey and grow and learn. I believe he will do it, but yeah, he's a rookie right now, a really good prospect, but if he never gets any better than he is today, he will win some games but it will be a disaster. My money is on him to grow, but the fumbling thing is an actual issue. And it's one that can be coached too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 38 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: he definitely has things to work on. his potential and attitude have me excited, but no QB who doesnt grow from the day they enter the league will do anything. he absolutely has to go through that journey and grow and learn. I believe he will do it, but yeah, he's a rookie right now, a really good prospect, but if he never gets any better than he is today, he will win some games but it will be a disaster. My money is on him to grow, but the fumbling thing is an actual issue. And it's one that can be coached too. Fumbles are far worse than interceptions.] A QB is often victimized. WR blows a route and cuts in instead of out. Ball deflected off of WRs hands. QB is forced to throw ill-advised pass when time is short and his team is trailing. In each case, at least the ball is downfield. Fumbles, especially in the backfield, are hard to blame on anyone else. I would love to see a video showing all of the fumbles he committed in college. (I am sure our coaching staff has such a collection). Fumbles when running beyond the LOS? Fumbles during a strip sack? Bad exchange from center? What does he need to correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 12 minutes ago, Pixote said: Fumbles are far worse than interceptions.] A QB is often victimized. WR blows a route and cuts in instead of out. Ball deflected off of WRs hands. QB is forced to throw ill-advised pass when time is short and his team is trailing. In each case, at least the ball is downfield. Fumbles, especially in the backfield, are hard to blame on anyone else. I would love to see a video showing all of the fumbles he committed in college. (I am sure our coaching staff has such a collection). Fumbles when running beyond the LOS? Fumbles during a strip sack? Bad exchange from center? What does he need to correct? he holds the ball out away from his body when he's running around. That's probably his worst trait. When I read that he was having "frank" discussions with the Bears on zoom, I assume they were talking about ball security, and taking what the defense gives you and not always big play hunting. I am sure some of that instinct will always remain for him, and all the best QB have it, but it's also very important against NFL defenses to move the chains. Caleb has a lot of film where he does the right things too, so we see evidence that he is capable of reading defenses, making fast reads, getting the ball out fast etc. So the only question is whether he will be coachable, and the interviews and stuff Ive seen from him recently make me think he will do what it takes to win championships, rather than be a Jay Cutler type who just wants to make big wow throws, and doesnt care about winning. I used to tell this joke: "When Jay Cutler was a little boy he dreamed of throwing a last minute Hail Mary pass to win the superbowl, but when Tom Brady was a little boy he dreamed of being up 35 in the 3rd quarter" LOL Caleb definitely has things he needs to work on and correct, it's just a matter of discipline though, because we do see lots of examples of him doing it right on film as well, so there is proof of concept that he has the capability - now it's down to choices; protect the ball, take the open easy first down (most of the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 Why does this feel like 11:59 PM on December 31. It's as if the ball in NYC is descending, ready to welcome in the New Year, or in this case, a new era in Bears football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: We are looking at super bowls, and Packer dominance. A long time coming, and I am SO ready for this next chapter! This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: Fields is trash, youll figure it out at some point. And dont get me wrong, he (like Mitch Trubisky) seems like a really nice guy. He's not a trash human being, but he is a trash NFL QB. I truly dont understand the love for this guy as a player. He's awful. Im not here making a choice of Caleb or Justin, that argument has passed. Caleb is here and Justin is gone. I just dont understand why you have a problem with me wishing a good outcome for a good dude? You may be right but the outcome of whether he improves or is trash is still open. I think he proves himself, it's an opinion. At this point, he hasn't improved enough to keep his job in Chicago, so some of your pessimism exists. It will be easier to have this conversation one year from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, Pixote said: Why does this feel like 11:59 PM on December 31. It's as if the ball in NYC is descending, ready to welcome in the New Year, or in this case, a new era in Bears football. it sure does. And I am hugging you Pix! New era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 On 4/25/2024 at 12:37 AM, Stinger226 said: Your entitled to your opinions but it's based on a hypothesis, so it can't be proven. I think with better play calling and a better roster, he could have been a top 10-15 QB. ( His last 7 games he was the 11th ranked QB) The lack of trade value has a lot to do with timing. Poles didn't decide to trade him until well after the combine, after most spots were filled. There are 2 reasons he's not here. We got lucky and got the top pick, if we didn't have a top 3 pick, he would still be here. Also having to pay him big money in 2025 and forward came in to play. He hasn't shown enough to get a big contract. I think he proves himself and becomes a starter in Pittsburgh. He's never going to be elite but obviously history tells us you don't have to be to win a SB. Poles choose Caleb because he can become elite and that doesn't automatically mean Justin is a garbage QB. All of this is my opinion and can't be proven until a few years have passed to see if it was accurate. 100% agree. Fields had bipolar coaching, consistent change, horrible game planning, a single NFL-worthy WR, and a bad pass-pro OL. The Bears failed Fields, and we will never know what he could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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