Is Poles becoming Pace?

[adam]

Honest question here. It just seems like he is getting the smartest guy in the room syndrome, and that effectively killed Pace after the Trubisky and Shaheen picks. 

It felt like every pick other than Burden was overdrafted, while other teams got great value. Coming into the draft with 3 picks in the top 41, I am just not feeling it this year. I hope I am wrong. Then you add the trades with BUF that lost value and the only saving grace is getting a 4th next year from LAR. 

Anyone else feeling like this? 1st and 2nd rounders have to be starters. The Bears had 4 of those picks and got a TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4, no starters unless Trapilo somehow beats out Braxton. 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

11 minutes ago, adam said:

Honest question here. It just seems like he is getting the smartest guy in the room syndrome, and that effectively killed Pace after the Trubisky and Shaheen picks. 

It felt like every pick other than Burden was overdrafted, while other teams got great value. Coming into the draft with 3 picks in the top 41, I am just not feeling it this year. I hope I am wrong. Then you add the trades with BUF that lost value and the only saving grace is getting a 4th next year from LAR. 

Anyone else feeling like this? 1st and 2nd rounders have to be starters. The Bears had 4 of those picks and got a TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4, no starters unless Trapilo somehow beats out Braxton. 

 

No one had this draft predicted. I guess we have to let it play out with Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen in the room evaluating the current roster and prospects in the draft.  I keep thinking they would need a DE, but Sherman Turner at 6'3 290 can play there and 3T.

They must trust RB Swift to be dynamic and Johnson to grind those needed yards out.  

[BearFan PHX]

25 minutes ago, adam said:

Honest question here. It just seems like he is getting the smartest guy in the room syndrome, and that effectively killed Pace after the Trubisky and Shaheen picks. 

It felt like every pick other than Burden was overdrafted, while other teams got great value. Coming into the draft with 3 picks in the top 41, I am just not feeling it this year. I hope I am wrong. Then you add the trades with BUF that lost value and the only saving grace is getting a 4th next year from LAR. 

Anyone else feeling like this? 1st and 2nd rounders have to be starters. The Bears had 4 of those picks and got a TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4, no starters unless Trapilo somehow beats out Braxton. 

 

On the surface, yes. We all had conventional expectations for this draft, and it all went another way.

I feel that Johnson is a very different kind of coach than we've had here, and we will be a very different kind of offense than we've ever had here. That makes all these picks feel strange. Maybe strange is good. Maybe this is what it feels like to be a team with a real offense. I dunno.

Im ready to learn a new way of seeing things. It could be that, or it could be just bad picks. It definitely has felt like weve been 1, 2 or 3 picks too late at multiple stages of this draft.

We will see it on the field. This could be very good, very bad, or mediocre. Im hoping Johnson knows what hes doing. But I don't put this draft on Poles as much as Johnson.

It is definitely smartest guy int he room syndrome. But maybe Johnson IS the smartest guy. This season will be interesting for sure.

[adam]

14 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

No one had this draft predicted. I guess we have to let it play out with Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen in the room evaluating the current roster and prospects in the draft.  I keep thinking they would need a DE, but Sherman Turner at 6'3 290 can play there and 3T.

They must trust RB Swift to be dynamic and Johnson to grind those needed yards out.  

RB and S were weaknesses coming in and they did nothing to address those. Drafting Kiran in the 3rd last year seems like a waste now with Trapilo coming in as a 2nd rounder. 2nd rounders have to be starters. 

This draft just feels off, like they went with Loveland, and then everything after was off on timing. Outside of Burden, every other pick seemed early or like a reach. I could be wrong, but right now it feels hollow. 

[adam]

13 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

On the surface, yes. We all had conventional expectations for this draft, and it all went another way.

I feel that Johnson is a very different kind of coach than we've had here, and we will be a very different kind of offense than we've ever had here. That makes all these picks feel strange. Maybe strange is good. Maybe this is what it feels like to be a team with a real offense. I dunno.

Im ready to learn a new way of seeing things. It could be that, or it could be just bad picks. It definitely has felt like weve been 1, 2 or 3 picks too late at multiple stages of this draft.

We will see it on the field. This could be very good, very bad, or mediocre. Im hoping Johnson knows what hes doing. But I don't put this draft on Poles as much as Johnson.

It is definitely smartest guy int he room syndrome. But maybe Johnson IS the smartest guy. This season will be interesting for sure.

I mean the team won 5 games last year. Yeah, Johnson is a huge upgrade at HC and they had a very good free agency. It just feels like they had a chance to really separate themselves with those first 4 picks (all in the top 65) but took guys that would've been there at the lower picks (besides Burden).

The only good thing is the rest of the division didn't do anything noteworthy in the draft. Golden is the only player of note from all the other divisional teams. 

[dawhizz]

Every GM thinks they are the smartest guy in the room. That’s why they have the job. Most teams probably feel the same way you do about their GMs, I’m guessing, thinking they reach for players. When you focus on your team you feel like you’re the only one. The only thing that fixes it, or makes you overlook it, is winning. The Pats reached for players all the time when Brady was there but we remember the successes and just overlook the failures. I remember when we took the consensus “best guy on the board” and it was Hroniss Grasu, Anthony Miller, and Riley Ridley. You have your ups and your downs. That’s the draft. 

[adam]

7 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

Every GM thinks they are the smartest guy in the room. That’s why they have the job. Most team after the same way you do about their GMs, I’m guessing thinking they reach for players. When you focus on your team you feel like you’re the only one. The only thing that fixes it, or makes you overlook it, is winning. The Pats reached for players all the time when Brady was there but we remember the successes and just overlook the failures. I remember when we took the consensus “best guy on the board” and it was Hroniss Grasu, Anthony Miller, and Riley Ridley. You have your ups and your downs. That’s the draft. 

Look at PIT's picks, they took Harmon, Johnson, and Sawyer, with only 3 picks in the first 4 rounds. I guarantee you all 3 will be contributors on Day 1 for the Steelers. The Bears had 4 picks before PIT had 2. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

8 minutes ago, adam said:

I mean the team won 6 games last year. Yeah, Johnson is a huge upgrade at HC and they had a very good free agency. It just feels like they had a chance to really separate themselves with those first 4 picks (all in the top 65) but took guys that would've been there at the lower picks (besides Burden)

The only good thing is the rest of the division didn't do anything noteworthy in the draft. Golden is the only player of note from all the other divisional teams. 

Detroit and Minnesota both got good guards.  A big-good DT for Detroit too.

Green Bay got a speed demon and I can see Love finding him on his miracle toss ups many times.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I don’t get the comparison at all. If you are going to argue late round picks it’s fruitless and ultimately they just got to draft guys they think have measurable or will overcome lack of measurable when it comes to late rounds.

Overall I think they focused on best available talent and guys they could project throughout the draft and they acquired more picks and focused getting a maximum number within range where the depth of this draft lied. 

[AZ54]

Been offline for a few hours.  Saw this new thread and thought we made some massive trade up giving up lots of future picks .  

[adam]

34 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I don’t get the comparison at all. If you are going to argue late round picks it’s fruitless and ultimately they just got to draft guys they think have measurable or will overcome lack of measurable when it comes to late rounds.

Overall I think they focused on best available talent and guys they could project throughout the draft and they acquired more picks and focused getting a maximum number within range where the depth of this draft lied. 

More along the lines of going against the consensus. It is not a bad draft, but did the Bears get any Day 1 starters in this draft with 4 picks in the top 62? Unless something changes, the Bears walked away with TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4 with those picks when they could've easily had RB1, Edge2, or S1, but I guess the positional value was not there for them. 

This entire draft has felt very underwhelming to be honest. That may be while it feels this way for me when looking at the Bears picks. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

21 minutes ago, adam said:

More along the lines of going against the consensus. It is not a bad draft, but did the Bears get any Day 1 starters in this draft with 4 picks in the top 62? Unless something changes, the Bears walked away with TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4 with those picks when they could've easily had RB1, Edge2, or S1, but I guess the positional value was not there for them. 

I think you are really overreacting when you think in rounds 4-7 there is a major consensus. 
 

They added 4 guys in first 2 rounds - leveraging a trade back and got 3 guys who over past 12 months had first round grades at a point in time. Stewart was playing with an injury all season - if it really impacted him they are getting a pretty high upside dline candidate and the wideout was clear bpa and his only knock is small hands. His draft was very much impacted by lousy qb play at Missouri. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

The BC guy is a potential starting right tackle - which gives bears a ton of flexibility if they decide they like Wright at LT - he also could be a depth guy at LT and at his size could swing into guard. The BC guy can play - I don’t know if his upside is there but he is a solid addition and the line is a ton better. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

This draft just feels off, like they went with Loveland, and then everything after was off on timing.

I really did feel like that.

[Daventry]

I agree with Adam, it doesn’t feel like a good draft.  With all of the years of failure, I am still suspicious, new HC or not.  I am not sold on Poles anymore.  I hope I am wrong but it feels like more of the same silliness that we have seen for decades.

[BearFan PHX]

18 minutes ago, Daventry said:

I agree with Adam, it doesn’t feel like a good draft.  With all of the years of failure, I am still suspicious, new HC or not.  I am not sold on Poles anymore.  I hope I am wrong but it feels like more of the same silliness that we have seen for decades.

it does feel suspect. this year will show us on the field, and then we will know more. But Im not saying I know its all OK, just giving them the benefit of the doubt until I see it on the field.

[adam]

2 hours ago, Daventry said:

I agree with Adam, it doesn’t feel like a good draft.  With all of the years of failure, I am still suspicious, new HC or not.  I am not sold on Poles anymore.  I hope I am wrong but it feels like more of the same silliness that we have seen for decades.

 

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

it does feel suspect. this year will show us on the field, and then we will know more. But Im not saying I know its all OK, just giving them the benefit of the doubt until I see it on the field.

I am definitely hoping for success, and I thought after the free agency they had, that this draft would "push them over the edge" in terms of the talent gap. However, it felt like TE and WR were closer to luxury picks than anything else, and a 5-win team can't afford luxury picks. So the gap didn't close as much as it could of with 4 picks in the top 62.

Again, I hope I am wrong as hell.

I might also feel this way because the Bears had some very high draft capital with their first 4 picks, but lost in trade backs with BUF (twice no less) where you usually gain capital. So combine the net loss with an expected gain, and the move backs felt bad. Every time they did that, it seemed like they missed out on the guys they would've targeted. Going from 41 to 56, Ezeiruaku, Tuimoloau, Ersery, Scourton, Oladejo, and Belton all came off the board. 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, adam said:

 

I am definitely hoping for success, and I thought after the free agency they had, that this draft would "push them over the edge" in terms of the talent gap. However, it felt like TE and WR were closer to luxury picks than anything else, and a 5-win team can't afford luxury picks. So the gap didn't close as much as it could of with 4 picks in the top 62.

Again, I hope I am wrong as hell.

I might also feel this way because the Bears had some very high draft capital with their first 4 picks, but lost in trade backs with BUF (twice no less) where you usually gain capital. So combine the net loss with an expected gain, and the move backs felt bad. Every time they did that, it seemed like they missed out on the guys they would've targeted. Going from 41 to 56, Ezeiruaku, Tuimoloau, Ersery, Scourton, Oladejo, and Belton all came off the board. 

 

 

I think thats the right way to look at it. TE and WR might end up being core pieces though for a Ben Johnson offense. I imagine having only eaten simple home cooked food, if a chef came along, and i was thinking "he's gonna go get some fresh steaks" and instead he comes back with all kinds of things Ive never heard of like leeks and bay leaves.

Im surprised. It's not what Im used to. It was outside the box for what i thought was important. But possibly Johnson knows something about offense that tells him Kmet is just not able to do what he needs to make it work.

So the proof will be in the meal. Maybe it will be delicious and have flavors I've never even thought of before. Or maybe it's a smartest guy problem. We will see it on the field.

But its possible Johnson wanted all those names we missed on, and Poles got played trying to wait for them, or trading back just a little too much.

[Stinger226]

Easy to say same old Bears but in fact it's not. Johnson  and DA clearly influenced this draft. If you thought those were good gets then maybe you let this play out. We are a losing franchise always hoping to get better, every year is a walking on eggshells kind of year. This is a bad spot to judge the season because they didn't draft who you liked. Off-season was very positive and they definitely drafted 4 good football players. 

As Adam pointed out they didn't draft anyone I liked but I'm not pretending to be smarter than their scouting Dept. Apparently most of you are . 

I'm a hope for the best person and willing to let it play out. Have fun wallowing around in your misery.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I'm not pretending to be smarter than their scouting Dept. Apparently most of you are . 

I'm a hope for the best person and willing to let it play out. Have fun wallowing around in your misery.

why is this helpful. this is a sports talk board, and people are expressing opinions thats what its for! Just because people have questions doesnt mean they are wallowing in misery.

Pundits can be wrong, and so can scouts and GMs. So its Ok for people to have questions or doubts isnt it?

[BearFan PHX]

 

[Stinger226]

After the draft, I get on here and hard to find positive statements.  Of course it's a board to express opinions but let's be honest we may not know how well this draft was for 2 years but I'm not going to pretend I know the answer the day after the draft. It seems like most predict failure.

 I  love the new coaching staff and most of the roster, so I am optimistic. When Johnson and DA clearly influenced the draft, it's same old Bears, Poles is now the new Pace, instead of trying to figure out what they are trying to do. 

If this year does not excite you especially with Caleb as the QB, in not sure you're capable.

[Stinger226]

15 hours ago, adam said:

RB and S were weaknesses coming in and they did nothing to address those. Drafting Kiran in the 3rd last year seems like a waste now with Trapilo coming in as a 2nd rounder. 2nd rounders have to be starters. 

This draft just feels off, like they went with Loveland, and then everything after was off on timing. Outside of Burden, every other pick seemed early or like a reach. I could be wrong, but right now it feels hollow. 

I agree we needed to add more bodies but not sure how it's a weakness? Swift had a lot of positive for a totally inept offense. The bad OL affected Caleb's play but it didn't affect the running game? I don't get the logic.

Safety is not a weakness with all 4 Ss coming back. They clearly don't think it is or they had added in free agency. Next year absolutely but they don't need to address that now with other needs.

Loveland was not a reach, most had him in the top 15. Burden was mostly projected as a first round pick. The next two were top 100 players, not sure where they were slotted. The rest of the draft may have been reaching but they drafted players they wanted.

[Mongo3451]

15 hours ago, adam said:

More along the lines of going against the consensus. It is not a bad draft, but did the Bears get any Day 1 starters in this draft with 4 picks in the top 62? Unless something changes, the Bears walked away with TE2, WR3, OT3, and DT4 with those picks when they could've easily had RB1, Edge2, or S1, but I guess the positional value was not there for them. 

I believe Loveland is a day one starter.  The only place we all agreed we needed a day one starter upgrade was at OT.  The big three got snatched.  I don't see any other starter that we could displace.  When we get to this point of depth, it is a good sign.  No Pace here.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I believe Loveland is a day one starter.  The only place we all agreed we needed a day one starter upgrade was at OT.  The big three got snatched.  I don't see any other starter that we could displace.  When we get to this point of depth, it is a good sign.  No Pace here.

The Pace comparison confuses me, Poles actually manages the Cap brilliantly. Doesn't give huge contracts to average players. All the contracts he gave to core players in yr 2 looks like a bargain. If you mean he thinks he's the smartest guy in room when taking people we never heard of, they all do that.  This is the year the rebuild pays dividends. I thought it was going to be last year but I think keeping Flus sealed that not happening.

Burden will be in the rotation, tripoli will become the swing T, Turner gets in the rotation on the DL, and the RB will be the duel back guy. Newman will make the 53, we finally are adding depth. The LB and CB Will probably be PS all year.