Cutler and his future

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,7544443.column

 

What this is, if you don't want to click it, is pretty much David Haugh ripping Cutler.

 

Now, I understand every QB has a bad game here and there, and I've been Cutler's BIGGEST supporter. At some point, however, when will he be considered a bust? Even when he had a great OL in Denver and made the Pro Bowl, he threw only 7 more TD's than INT's and made the PB because of an injury. The last 2 seasons, he's started out 3-1 and 3-0, and it's been downhill from there. How long do they give him? If he throws 8 more TD's the rest of the year and another 18 INT's, is this his last year? Do they give him next year, too? When does the team start to turn on him? Why is it fine if he throws 3-5 INT's but when Rex threw 1, it was "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"?

 

I just want honest opinions. I look around the NFL and see Josh Freeman in Tampa, Sam Bradford in St. Louis, even Matthew Stafford in Detroit, Rodgers in GB, etc., and I'm kind of jealous. I thought they had something special in Cutler. But until he proves otherwise, I'm going to back off of my usual attitude to back this guy up.

[Guest TerraTor]

I can't stand his throws. Im done with him. Throwing INTs to Deangelo Hall of all people is rediculous. how many lab-balls(sp) must we see. Run all the way down to the 10yard line then float one near Johnny Knox? I mean what the hell?

[madlithuanian]

I think we were fleeced. I certianly fell for it...

 

(Although, I'm sure JA would have s&%t the bed with the 2 first round picks anyway...)

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,7544443.column

 

What this is, if you don't want to click it, is pretty much David Haugh ripping Cutler.

 

Now, I understand every QB has a bad game here and there, and I've been Cutler's BIGGEST supporter. At some point, however, when will he be considered a bust? Even when he had a great OL in Denver and made the Pro Bowl, he threw only 7 more TD's than INT's and made the PB because of an injury. The last 2 seasons, he's started out 3-1 and 3-0, and it's been downhill from there. How long do they give him? If he throws 8 more TD's the rest of the year and another 18 INT's, is this his last year? Do they give him next year, too? When does the team start to turn on him? Why is it fine if he throws 3-5 INT's but when Rex threw 1, it was "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"?

 

I just want honest opinions. I look around the NFL and see Josh Freeman in Tampa, Sam Bradford in St. Louis, even Matthew Stafford in Detroit, Rodgers in GB, etc., and I'm kind of jealous. I thought they had something special in Cutler. But until he proves otherwise, I'm going to back off of my usual attitude to back this guy up.

 

[madlithuanian]

Speaking of wanting to get rid of your gear...

 

I have a white road Cutlet jersey. I'm thinking about getting a silkscreened "B" and have my wife sew is over the "C"...Kevin Butler brings a much larger smile to my face...

 

I can't stand his throws. Im done with him. Throwing INTs to Deangelo Hall of all people is rediculous. how many lab-balls(sp) must we see. Run all the way down to the 10yard line then float one near Johnny Knox? I mean what the hell?

 

[adam]

I am waiting for Cutler to go Ryan Leaf on someone.

[azbearsfan]

Man, the Jeff George comparisons are getting more and more accurate

[Guest TerraTor]

Man, the Jeff George comparisons are getting more and more accurate

 

This is worse than the "Grossman Effect"

 

 

[azbearsfan]

This is worse than the "Grossman Effect"

 

 

lol I dont know. Maybe. To me Cutler keeps digging his own grave here. I mean, to say you know a db is reading you like a book, clearly jumping routes, and you still throw that ball at him with his piss poor mechanics, and that you would do it again is just insane. Even the biggest Cutler apologists cant dispute that.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

See, I just think that we assumed too much when he got here. Sure, he was a Pro Bowl QB, but like I said, he threw 18 INT's and got in because of an injury. We assumed they'd surround him with tons of talent and he'd make so many players around him better.

 

Call me nuts, but I'd still make that trade 10/10 times.

[azbearsfan]

See, I just think that we assumed too much when he got here. Sure, he was a Pro Bowl QB, but like I said, he threw 18 INT's and got in because of an injury. We assumed they'd surround him with tons of talent and he'd make so many players around him better.

 

Call me nuts, but I'd still make that trade 10/10 times.

 

 

 

Your nuts, lol. Seriously though, not only is Orton playing better than Cutler, the draft picks we have lost have crippled the influx of talent. Plus you could make an argument that Orton would be a better fit for the Martz offense.

[southsideirish71]

Your nuts, lol. Seriously though, not only is Orton playing better than Cutler, the draft picks we have lost have crippled the influx of talent. Plus you could make an argument that Orton would be a better fit for the Martz offense.

 

Good to see that the Kyle Orton fan club is still holding its secret meetings. So you are convinced that giving Angelo more 1st round draft picks would immediately turn into talent. I mean which injured/bad player that Angelo would of drafted at the point would be making the difference now. And a MIke Martz verticle attack with an immobile QB and a horrific line equals a better chance. The only thing we would have if Orton was here under Martz and this line is the introduction to the Hanie era as Kyle would be planted into the turf about 4 weeks ago.

 

 

Cutler in 2008 with Denver. Sacked 11 times in 727 drop-backs, one sack per 66 pass plays.

This year, he has been sacked 37 times in 224 pass plays. one sack per 6 pass plays. No corelation there. Getting driving into the ground ever 6 pass plays helps to clear the head and makes you a better QB. Kyle Orton never had above an 80 QB rating here in Chicago. When he was "the winner" in 2005, he had a 59.6 QB rating. People's memories lie and their reviews on their perceived skill and talent he had while he was here. He wasn't all that good here He mysteriously started to get better when he left here. And magically an All Pro QB started to have a downward spiral when he came here. If anything this tidbit would provide an analysis point. But it probably won't. Because facts just get in the way of the pitchforks and the torches. Cutler is evil. He has a smug look on his face, he gets to penetrate girls that wouldnt give you the time of day, and is a millionaire. Sure Orton got drunk, partied and wasn't particularly good while he was here. But at least he didnt penis any member of the hills and gave someone a dirty look.

[Bears4Ever_34]

It was evident that when Jay has protection like he did in Denver he plays extremely well. The only reason that teamed failed to make the playoffs was because they had a miserable defense.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Ultimatley, Jay will get to work with new coaches and I think that is what will be necessary. And our new GM will need to surround our QB with weapons, a quality line, and a quality coaching staff with whom he will listen and work with.

 

You have to give Jay another chance, but at the same time, by focusing on oline and offensive weapons, you also put yourself in a position that if Jay doesn't work out, another person can step into a much easier situation.

 

I still believe in Jay, but I do think the multiple systems and poor oline and our staff has hindered his development and might have ruined his career. He himself can look in the mirror and put blame on himself too, because he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes and that is a major fault.

[flea]

Good to see that the Kyle Orton fan club is still holding its secret meetings. So you are convinced that giving Angelo more 1st round draft picks would immediately turn into talent. I mean which injured/bad player that Angelo would of drafted at the point would be making the difference now. And a MIke Martz verticle attack with an immobile QB and a horrific line equals a better chance. The only thing we would have if Orton was here under Martz and this line is the introduction to the Hanie era as Kyle would be planted into the turf about 4 weeks ago.

 

 

Cutler in 2008 with Denver. Sacked 11 times in 727 drop-backs, one sack per 66 pass plays.

This year, he has been sacked 37 times in 224 pass plays. one sack per 6 pass plays. No corelation there. Getting driving into the ground ever 6 pass plays helps to clear the head and makes you a better QB. Kyle Orton never had above an 80 QB rating here in Chicago. When he was "the winner" in 2005, he had a 59.6 QB rating. People's memories lie and their reviews on their perceived skill and talent he had while he was here. He wasn't all that good here He mysteriously started to get better when he left here. And magically an All Pro QB started to have a downward spiral when he came here. If anything this tidbit would provide an analysis point. But it probably won't. Because facts just get in the way of the pitchforks and the torches. Cutler is evil. He has a smug look on his face, he gets to penetrate girls that wouldnt give you the time of day, and is a millionaire. Sure Orton got drunk, partied and wasn't particularly good while he was here. But at least he didnt penis any member of the hills and gave someone a dirty look.

 

 

no mystery, & he actually started to get better while he was here. The Orton we traded was a much better player than the Orton we drafted

[Controlled Chaos]

Good to see that the Kyle Orton fan club is still holding its secret meetings. So you are convinced that giving Angelo more 1st round draft picks would immediately turn into talent. I mean which injured/bad player that Angelo would of drafted at the point would be making the difference now. And a MIke Martz verticle attack with an immobile QB and a horrific line equals a better chance. The only thing we would have if Orton was here under Martz and this line is the introduction to the Hanie era as Kyle would be planted into the turf about 4 weeks ago.

 

 

Cutler in 2008 with Denver. Sacked 11 times in 727 drop-backs, one sack per 66 pass plays.

This year, he has been sacked 37 times in 224 pass plays. one sack per 6 pass plays. No corelation there. Getting driving into the ground ever 6 pass plays helps to clear the head and makes you a better QB. Kyle Orton never had above an 80 QB rating here in Chicago. When he was "the winner" in 2005, he had a 59.6 QB rating. People's memories lie and their reviews on their perceived skill and talent he had while he was here. He wasn't all that good here He mysteriously started to get better when he left here. And magically an All Pro QB started to have a downward spiral when he came here. If anything this tidbit would provide an analysis point. But it probably won't. Because facts just get in the way of the pitchforks and the torches. Cutler is evil. He has a smug look on his face, he gets to penetrate girls that wouldnt give you the time of day, and is a millionaire. Sure Orton got drunk, partied and wasn't particularly good while he was here. But at least he didnt penis any member of the hills and gave someone a dirty look.

[Daventry]

I am far from giving up on Cutler, and as far as Orton goes, his upside is nowhere near as high as Cutler's can be. Let's give the kid some time to throw and then see how he does, and let's not forget this is his first year with a new O coordinator...

['TD']

Don't get me started on Orton. Always was a fan, always will be.

 

We can argue him out all day. I'd take the QB that can read a defense and 2 1st round OLinemen to block for him and spark a running game over a QB that can throw interceptions farther behind this current line any day.

[Daventry]

Don't get me started on Orton. Always was a fan, always will be.

 

We can argue him out all day. I'd take the QB that can read a defense and 2 1st round OLinemen to block for him and spark a running game over a QB that can throw interceptions farther behind this current line any day.

 

 

Only time will tell, and I did not mind Orton except for the neckbeard and JD pics, overall he was a solid QB. However, he will never be special and Cutler could be.

 

I wouldn't mind those O Linesman though....

[Lucky Luciano]

i guess i don’t understand all the flak over cutler. i REALLY don’t understand all the “if only we had orton” posts or, gasp, the if we only gave rex grossman a chance supporters who i actually have heard on the radio. orton’s ceiling is being a good qb and on a few very special days better than that. so please, lets be real about his potential. i refuse to even waste a comment on grossman if anyone really is in that corner.

 

cutler is/was light years ahead of either of those qb’s and in reality is probably the best qb talent prospect we have ever had in chicago for 60 years. but people need a reality check with not only what this guy is and what he can do but what he can do it with.

 

he is what 99% of bear fans have been crying for since mcmahon was cut loose and absolutely since brett favre showed up in green bay. he is a high wire act who does throw a lot of picks (sound familiar) but has the capability of still winning doing so. that is the definition of the so-called gunslinger qb. now everyone is confused and surprised at what they are seeing???

 

onward... 90% of a qb’s play is MENTAL. this guy has been sacked and hit more times in the last 22 games than probably in his entire life. there is not a single area on our offensive line that can stop ANYONE!!! that means there is no confidence on any play that he can feel comfortable that he won’t get hit from the front (even by his own lineman being shoved back 10 yards for a sack), behind or sideways either causing death, injury or at the least a fumble. there is no pocket, there is no reasonably safe area for him to set up to make his reads or MAKE A PLAY and even when there is, the clock that works in good qb’s head is spinning out of control.

 

so get used to what you are seeing people because there is nothing that any coach on this team can do to get the lack of talent on this teams offensive line to play better (no matter how hard you whip a mule he ‘aint’ going to win a kentucky derby). EDIT also the lack of ANY experienced QUALITY receivers doesn't help this mess at all. to try and get on the same page with these types of receivers behind this offensive line is plain and simply ludicrous!!!!!!

 

every bit of this goes right onto jerry angelo and moreso on TED PHILIPPS for letting angelo run the talent on this franchise into the grand canyon through his abysmal drafts.

 

without at least an average offensive line it wouldn’t matter if we had payton manning, joe montana or johnny unitis as qb. cutler maybe will never be on the level of those guys but he CERTAINLY has the abilities to be a very good to great qb in the nfl if we don’t/haven’t destroyed him.

['TD']

I hate gunslingers. That was a major reason I didn't like the trade to start out with. So I guess I'm a 1%'er in what you are talking about. So I am biased in this conversation because of it. I've always hated Brett Favre. Not just because he was a Packer, and before the recent drama, but just on the fact I hate seeing guys who do stupid stuff and lose games for their teams get praised. I am more fond of a guy like Payton Manning that can read defenses and outsmart them.

 

 

Anyways, here's some reasons I didn't like the trade off the top of my head.

1) the bears just had one of their more productive, efficient, and consistent offenses in a while. Forte just had an amazing rookie season and Orton was home grown and was continuing to grow.

2) while the offense looked better, Forte looked good but only averaged like 3.8 ypc if memory serves me right. It was evident the line would need a solid infusion of youth in the line that it hadn't received yet. The way he was running and with a better line I could see something maybe along the lines of what the Falcons have now. A little above average QB play, combined with a great running game.

3) Most Bronco Fans were happy to see him go. All I read about when talks of a trade were going on was his inaccuracy on deep balls and such.

4) there was too much emphasis on the fact he was a probowl QB. Many QB's have went one time and he just happened to go due to someone else not wanting to go.

5) I just didn't like how he treated the situation. I didn't want a drama queen that said trade me I'm not playing for you.

6) It was like a guy buying a 60 inch plasma screen TV when he couldn't afford cable to me.

 

 

In my defense:

 

1) The team had to start over with a new QB and new philosophy. Turner's coaching turned into more of a passing offense. It looked better than this year, but was Grossman-esque from 2005 when the team would be good one weak and horrible the next. Cutler lead the league in INT's.

2) The running game has been nonexistent. The Offensiveline regressed last year to an ok pass blocking and horrible run blocking line to this year starting 7th round picks and not being able to do either.

3) The Bronco Fans have been laughing since.

4) He's still not looking like that pro bowler everyone was talking about

5) You can see that attitude in how he acts on the field and how he just replied to the question about deangelo hall

6) 2 years in and we still can't see whatever potential is there (60 inch tv) because we don't have cable (a line and wr's)

 

I'll never use Orton's name in a shoulda kept him or shouldn't have debate unless someone else brings it up first. He's a completely different discussion that Cutler to me.

 

Cutler is going to get criticism and deserves it. There are smart fans here who will see things differently from time to time. He got a big enough check and he can deal with it (even tho I'm sure he could careless).

 

He'll get his praise from the people that are giving him hell now if he plays well too. Danielle Manning got it when he "found his niche" in kick returns last year. He's even getting more that he is playing well at safety this year. Urlacher was getting dogged by many coming into this season and getting a lot of props for rebounding this one and so on.

 

So right now, while Cutler is playing like crap, you're going to hear about it from people. To me personally, it's what all I feared from the trade coming true at this point. If he plays lights out the rest of the season, I'm sure myself and others will be saying what was I thinking, this guy is awesome. Right now, he hasn't did anything on the field for me to be thinking that yet. We're all Bears fans here, and just want to see what each of us feel is the best for the team.

 

[jason]

Only time will tell, and I did not mind Orton except for the neckbeard and JD pics, overall he was a solid QB. However, he will never be special and Cutler could be.

 

I wouldn't mind those O Linesman though....

 

You know AT WORST, that would have been one first round D Lineman...and the other would potentially have been another position. Knowing Angelo and Lovie, it would have been a shot on a kid with potential from a small school who is labeled as a tweener.

 

Two O Linemen

[flea]

agree theres no way of knowing how those picks would have been spent.

[jason]

i guess i don’t understand all the flak over cutler. i REALLY don’t understand all the “if only we had orton” posts or, gasp, the if we only gave rex grossman a chance supporters who i actually have heard on the radio. orton’s ceiling is being a good qb and on a few very special days better than that. so please, lets be real about his potential. i refuse to even waste a comment on grossman if anyone really is in that corner.

 

cutler is/was light years ahead of either of those qb’s and in reality is probably the best qb talent prospect we have ever had in chicago for 60 years. but people need a reality check with not only what this guy is and what he can do but what he can do it with.

 

he is what 99% of bear fans have been crying for since mcmahon was cut loose and absolutely since brett favre showed up in green bay. he is a high wire act who does throw a lot of picks (sound familiar) but has the capability of still winning doing so. that is the definition of the so-called gunslinger qb. now everyone is confused and surprised at what they are seeing???

 

onward... 90% of a qb’s play is MENTAL. this guy has been sacked and hit more times in the last 22 games than probably in his entire life. there is not a single area on our offensive line that can stop ANYONE!!! that means there is no confidence on any play that he can feel comfortable that he won’t get hit from the front (even by his own lineman being shoved back 10 yards for a sack), behind or sideways either causing death, injury or at the least a fumble. there is no pocket, there is no reasonably safe area for him to set up to make his reads or MAKE A PLAY and even when there is, the clock that works in good qb’s head is spinning out of control.

 

so get used to what you are seeing people because there is nothing that any coach on this team can do to get the lack of talent on this teams offensive line to play better (no matter how hard you whip a mule he ‘aint’ going to win a kentucky derby). EDIT also the lack of ANY experienced QUALITY receivers doesn't help this mess at all. to try and get on the same page with these types of receivers behind this offensive line is plain and simply ludicrous!!!!!!

 

every bit of this goes right onto jerry angelo and moreso on TED PHILIPPS for letting angelo run the talent on this franchise into the grand canyon through his abysmal drafts.

 

without at least an average offensive line it wouldn’t matter if we had payton manning, joe montana or johnny unitis as qb. cutler maybe will never be on the level of those guys but he CERTAINLY has the abilities to be a very good to great qb in the nfl if we don’t/haven’t destroyed him.

 

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread.

[jason]

I hate gunslingers.

 

Noted.

 

Anyways, here's some reasons I didn't like the trade off the top of my head.

2) while the offense looked better, Forte looked good but only averaged like 3.8 ypc if memory serves me right. It was evident the line would need a solid infusion of youth in the line that it hadn't received yet. The way he was running and with a better line I could see something maybe along the lines of what the Falcons have now. A little above average QB play, combined with a great running game.

 

Evident to whom? Not the Bears' front office or management, who STILL ignored OL even though they picked up Cutler. You're fooling yourself if you think they would have picked OL.

 

3) Most Bronco Fans were happy to see him go. All I read about when talks of a trade were going on was his inaccuracy on deep balls and such.

4) there was too much emphasis on the fact he was a probowl QB. Many QB's have went one time and he just happened to go due to someone else not wanting to go.

 

That's BS.

At best fans were mixed.

At best local media was mixed.

And http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...d=4037560"" target="_blank">most pundits believed the Bears got the better of the deal considering the fact that franshice QBs never get traded.

 

In my defense:

 

1) The team had to start over with a new QB and new philosophy. Turner's coaching turned into more of a passing offense. It looked better than this year, but was Grossman-esque from 2005 when the team would be good one weak and horrible the next. Cutler lead the league in INT's.

 

That's inconsequential, because Turner was gone whether or not the Bears traded for Cutler. With Orton it would have just been a QB most of us liked, but whose immobility would have probably led to more sacks.

 

2) The running game has been nonexistent. The Offensiveline regressed last year to an ok pass blocking and horrible run blocking line to this year starting 7th round picks and not being able to do either.

 

And in what way does that has to do with the Cutler trade? They would have still sucked with Orton in Chicago, and the stats would have been potentially worse because of Orton's lead feet.

 

3) The Bronco Fans have been laughing since.

4) He's still not looking like that pro bowler everyone was talking about

5) You can see that attitude in how he acts on the field and how he just replied to the question about deangelo hall

6) 2 years in and we still can't see whatever potential is there (60 inch tv) because we don't have cable (a line and wr's)

 

3. Agreed, but their overall talent on offense is better.

4. True.

5. Attitude? Yes. But I honestly don't have a problem with his Hall comments. We can argue all we want, but many see that the WRs quit on three of the INTs.

6. True. But once again, how in the hell is that Cutler's fault?

 

Sorry dude, but on most of this you're mixing apples (Cutler/Orton) with oranges (whether or not the Bears' front office is ever willing to protect their offensive talent).

['TD']

It's not all about Cutler there. It's more against JA and how I think things should have went. The 6 things I listed is just problems I had at the trade and how they look now. My major problem at the trade, cutler aside, was I felt the team needed those additional pieces you say are misisng. I don't undersstand arguing for the trade and yet say he has nothing around him.