OLineman and TEs

[jason]

Says the guy who wants Gabe Carimi to be the LT... I'm sorry but if you put Webb next to a good LG (Cooper will do) then he will be an above average LT and it's really as simple as that. I'm gonna love when Webb is named the LT next year and we hear you have a heart attack on the board....Then stfu throughout the year when Webb plays well like he did in 75+% of his games last year.

 

A STUD OG MAKES ANY OT BETTER. It's a moot point. I know what we should do, let's sign Andre Johnson and Megatron and that would make Cutler better! C'mon man.

 

And don't fool yourself, if Webb starts as LT it will be a mistake, again, and he will hinder the offense, again. 75%. The only reply is one you seem to really value, but I will add a letter or two: PFFFFT.

[jason]

I assume you mean run and pass blocking....Why would you want a guy who was a "jekyll" in the pass game to be the guy protecting Cutlers blindside??? That makes no sense at all.

 

Yes. Stupid iPad autocorrect. The answer is easy. I think he will be better at the position with which he is most familiar: LT. Go look up how many years he played it in college. That is his position. Add in the injury and no wonder he hasn't lived up to expectations.

[scs787]

Yes. Stupid iPad autocorrect. The answer is easy. I think he will be better at the position with which he is most familiar: LT. Go look up how many years he played it in college. That is his position. Add in the injury and no wonder he hasn't lived up to expectations.

 

He played in an offense that hardly passed the ball. Go look up his scouting reports. He's just like Webb, he struggles in space.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

You know what would help a LT block good pass rushers one on one? A LT who can actually block good pass rushers one on one. I'm not taking a G at 20 because he will help Webb. You can sign any tub of crap for $1m/year who will slide over and give the pass rusher a quick jab to help Webb. I'm taking him because he's f***ing good, just like I'm taking a LT at 20 if there is a good one there.

 

As jason said, every year people say "well, don't upgrade there because he's average" or "forget taking a LT, he went from dogs*** to horses***." No. Draft or sign a guy who is actually GOOD.

 

If this is the case, they should've kept Kyle Orton. What was the point of trading a lot for Jay Cutler if they were going to do NOTHING to help him for FOUR years. They traded for ONE good WR in 4 years for him. In the mean time, they drafted Webb, Louis and Carimi and signed losers like Chris Spencer and Chilo Rachal. Seriously? It's time to seriously upgrade the OL.

[adam]

It will be a complete failure this offseason if we don't address the OLine, especially the tackles. Webb can stay and compete with a rookie or FA acquisition, but I would rather have him as the swing tackle than the starting LT.

[scs787]

A STUD OG MAKES ANY OT BETTER. It's a moot point. I know what we should do, let's sign Andre Johnson and Megatron and that would make Cutler better! C'mon man.

 

And don't fool yourself, if Webb starts as LT it will be a mistake, again, and he will hinder the offense, again. 75%. The only reply is one you seem to really value, but I will add a letter or two: PFFFFT.

 

He was a slightly below average LT...You add in a stud LG and right away he's an above average LT. Much like Bushrod was made into an above average LT by Ben Grubbs, and Carl Nicks the year before.... But I guess since you're calling for Carimi to be LT and not a high priced FA then my argument of paying for a LG before a LT is moot point as well.

 

Yea, pfffft to the 75%...you forgot the plus sign dude....75+%...he had 3 bad games against Matthews and Aldon Smith....Going 1v1....So whatever % 13 of 16 is.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

It will be a complete failure this offseason if we don't address the OLine, especially the tackles. Webb can stay and compete with a rookie or FA acquisition, but I would rather have him as the swing tackle than the starting LT.

1000% agree. He can develop under Kromer as a back-up. Albert is likely hitting the market. Sign him, take a RT in round 4 or 5, draft a G in round 1 or 2, and boom.

 

Albert-rookie-Garza-Louis/Carimi-Carimi/rookie is not a bad start.

[scs787]

You know what would help a LT block good pass rushers one on one? A LT who can actually block good pass rushers one on one. I'm not taking a G at 20 because he will help Webb. You can sign any tub of crap for $1m/year who will slide over and give the pass rusher a quick jab to help Webb. I'm taking him because he's f***ing good, just like I'm taking a LT at 20 if there is a good one there.

 

As jason said, every year people say "well, don't upgrade there because he's average" or "forget taking a LT, he went from dogs*** to horses***." No. Draft or sign a guy who is actually GOOD.

 

If this is the case, they should've kept Kyle Orton. What was the point of trading a lot for Jay Cutler if they were going to do NOTHING to help him for FOUR years. They traded for ONE good WR in 4 years for him. In the mean time, they drafted Webb, Louis and Carimi and signed losers like Chris Spencer and Chilo Rachal. Seriously? It's time to seriously upgrade the OL.

 

 

Which according to Pack fans who I assume watched games is no one. We're one of, if not THE only team who tried to contain Matthews 1v1 and that's just not the right plan of a attack against that guy....at all.

 

Jonathon Cooper is freakin good, mayock has him as a top 4 talent in the draft.

 

You're not gonna upgrade the whole line but "a dominant guard can lift an entire offensive line".

 

The Saints put an emphasis on interior line man. Thats what we need to do.

[scs787]

1000% agree. He can develop under Kromer as a back-up. Albert is likely hitting the market. Sign him, take a RT in round 4 or 5, draft a G in round 1 or 2, and boom.

 

Albert-rookie-Garza-Louis/Carimi-Carimi/rookie is not a bad start.

 

 

If they have the money for Albert and Melton sure.

 

 

Look guys, I'm not saying I'll be mad if he's replaced or moved to RT I'm just saying chances are we won't have the money to get a guy who will be better than Webb...And I'm ok with that because he's showed improvements over the years despite having dogshit playing next to him. Grabbing Cooper or Levitre (OGs are cheaper than LTs) elevates his play to an above average LT and you can get by with that.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

If they have the money for Albert and Melton sure.

 

 

Look guys, I'm not saying I'll be mad if he's replaced or moved to RT I'm just saying chances are we won't have the money to get a guy who will be better than Webb...And I'm ok with that because he's showed improvements over the years despite having dogshit playing next to him. Grabbing Cooper or Levitre (OGs are cheaper than LTs) elevates his play to an above average LT and you can get by with that.

You can also get by with a good LT who can actually block for himself.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Which according to Pack fans who I assume watched games is no one. We're one of, if not THE only team who tried to contain Matthews 1v1 and that's just not the right plan of a attack against that guy....at all.

 

Jonathon Cooper is freakin good, mayock has him as a top 4 talent in the draft.

 

You're not gonna upgrade the whole line but "a dominant guard can lift an entire offensive line".

 

The Saints put an emphasis on interior line man. Thats what we need to do.

So what happened in 2011, when he had 6 sacks? Were there 3 guys blocking him?

[scs787]

So what happened in 2011, when he had 6 sacks? Were there 3 guys blocking him?

 

Ha idk man I'm not a pack fan I'm just passing along something interesting I saw.

[Mongo3451]

You can also get by with a good LT who can actually block for himself.

If the article holds true and Kromer likes to build his scheme and core inside out, we wil ned at least 2 new interior linemen. We will not have the money or picks to address it all. So being that Webb was the sharpest turd in the pile means he should be starting again this year regardless of what side he plays. And of he improves like he did last year, he should be above average.

[AZ54]

If they have the money for Albert and Melton sure.

 

 

Look guys, I'm not saying I'll be mad if he's replaced or moved to RT I'm just saying chances are we won't have the money to get a guy who will be better than Webb...And I'm ok with that because he's showed improvements over the years despite having dogshit playing next to him. Grabbing Cooper or Levitre (OGs are cheaper than LTs) elevates his play to an above average LT and you can get by with that.

 

 

You don't have any concerns about Albert's back issues?

[jason]

He was a slightly below average LT...You add in a stud LG and right away he's an above average LT. Much like Bushrod was made into an above average LT by Ben Grubbs, and Carl Nicks the year before.... But I guess since you're calling for Carimi to be LT and not a high priced FA then my argument of paying for a LG before a LT is moot point as well.

 

Yea, pfffft to the 75%...you forgot the plus sign dude....75+%...he had 3 bad games against Matthews and Aldon Smith....Going 1v1....So whatever % 13 of 16 is.

 

Dude. Stop. Put down the keyboard.

 

Adding an stud LG next to any LT makes the LT better. Period. It's a moot point. It's stupid. I would absolutely suck at LT in the NFL for a variety of reasons, but put someone like Carl Nicks next to me and it might look like I had a few good plays. It's a stupid argument.

 

My pfffft comment was in regard to your love of PFF and the fart sound their acronym so closely resembles. Just because Webb got destroyed in 3 games doesn't mean the others were good. This is not some sort of this or that comparison. There is a broad range of production between "absolutely horrendous, how did this dude get into the NFL" to "good."

[scs787]

Dude. Stop. Put down the keyboard.

 

Adding an stud LG next to any LT makes the LT better. Period. It's a moot point. It's stupid. I would absolutely suck at LT in the NFL for a variety of reasons, but put someone like Carl Nicks next to me and it might look like I had a few good plays. It's a stupid argument.

 

My pfffft comment was in regard to your love of PFF and the fart sound their acronym so closely resembles. Just because Webb got destroyed in 3 games doesn't mean the others were good. This is not some sort of this or that comparison. There is a broad range of production between "absolutely horrendous, how did this dude get into the NFL" to "good."

 

 

It's the same "argument" we can have for you wanting Carimi at LT. Gabe, just like Webb is gonna be nothing more than average at LT next to the dogshit we've thrown out there at LG. You throw a stud LG next to either of them and they become above average.

 

The scouting reports on Gabe coming out of Wisconsin were that he's gonna struggle in space, which is exactly the problem Webb has.

 

The 3 games he got destroyed in he gave up 5 sacks...which means he gave up 2 the other 13...I know sacks aren't the way to measure a players success but it's at least a starting point. And a lot of those 5 sacks don't happen if you have a competent LG next to him.

 

 

Of our two starting OT last year, who would be the first to lose his job to a potential draft pick/ free agent?

Jeff Dickerson

(1:46 PM)

 

 

The one not named J'Marcus Webb.

 

Jeff Dickerson seems to agree that Webb>Carimi.

[jason]

It's the same "argument" we can have for you wanting Carimi at LT. Gabe, just like Webb is gonna be nothing more than average at LT next to the dogshit we've thrown out there at LG. You throw a stud LG next to either of them and they become above average.

 

The scouting reports on Gabe coming out of Wisconsin were that he's gonna struggle in space, which is exactly the problem Webb has.

 

The 3 games he got destroyed in he gave up 5 sacks...which means he gave up 2 the other 13...I know sacks aren't the way to measure a players success but it's at least a starting point. And a lot of those 5 sacks don't happen if you have a competent LG next to him.

 

Jeff Dickerson seems to agree that Webb>Carimi.

 

The points about Webb and Carimi are completely different. I don't see how you are equating the two. You're saying Webb needs a stud LG next to him, and I'm saying Carimi should get a shot at LT since that's the position he played in college. I don't disagree with the thought that a stud LG would also make Carimi better, which is kind of another reason Carimi is a better selection at LT. It wasn't like he was supported by an all-pro RG when he was being tossed to the wolves at RT.

 

You admit your 13 out of 16 reference is nearly pointless because you bring up the problem with just sacks. But if you're talking about JUST sacks, then, sure, Webb had 13 good games and 3 bad ones. But that's like saying if you only look at the games where the Bears won, then Lovie and Tice had 10 good games and 6 bad ones. It's far too simplistic.

 

As for Jeff Dickerson, I was watching that chat too. He's a schmuck who never answers the tough questions, and his "analysis" on the tackle situation is just as incomplete as using sacks for OT performance. Next chat send him the following question: "Is Webb better than Carimi?" He won't answer it. And he didn't answer it in today's chat.

 

[scs787]

The points about Webb and Carimi are completely different. I don't see how you are equating the two. You're saying Webb needs a stud LG next to him, and I'm saying Carimi should get a shot at LT since that's the position he played in college. I don't disagree with the thought that a stud LG would also make Carimi better, which is kind of another reason Carimi is a better selection at LT. It wasn't like he was supported by an all-pro RG when he was being tossed to the wolves at RT.

 

You admit your 13 out of 16 reference is nearly pointless because you bring up the problem with just sacks. But if you're talking about JUST sacks, then, sure, Webb had 13 good games and 3 bad ones. But that's like saying if you only look at the games where the Bears won, then Lovie and Tice had 10 good games and 6 bad ones. It's far too simplistic.

 

As for Jeff Dickerson, I was watching that chat too. He's a schmuck who never answers the tough questions, and his "analysis" on the tackle situation is just as incomplete as using sacks for OT performance. Next chat send him the following question: "Is Webb better than Carimi?" He won't answer it. And he didn't answer it in today's chat.

 

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on Webb vs. Carimi @ LT. We both seem to agree that adding a LG is a bigger priority than adding a LT as we both think the LT is already on our roster. I think with a better LG next to them either one can end up being an above average LT. I can't imagine Gabe won't get a look at LT. The whole Tice favoritism to Webb thing is out the window now, if he's the LT next year it means he earned it.

 

Didn't he pretty much admit who he thought was better when he said Carimi would lose his job before Webb???

 

I too sent him a question about Webb which he didn't answer. It's whatever.

[jason]

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on Webb vs. Carimi @ LT. We both seem to agree that adding a LG is a bigger priority than adding a LT as we both think the LT is already on our roster. I think with a better LG next to them either one can end up being an above average LT. I can't imagine Gabe won't get a look at LT. The whole Tice favoritism to Webb thing is out the window now, if he's the LT next year it means he earned it.

 

Didn't he pretty much admit who he thought was better when he said Carimi would lose his job before Webb???

 

I too sent him a question about Webb which he didn't answer. It's whatever.

 

No. He insinuated Webb would be more likely to keep the job. That has nothing to do with whether one player is better than the other. There are a variety of things that could be embedded in that comment, the least of which are: salary, injury history, favor amongst the organization, coachability, fit with a new system, popularity in the clubhouse, etc.

[scs787]

No. He insinuated Webb would be more likely to keep the job. That has nothing to do with whether one player is better than the other. There are a variety of things that could be embedded in that comment, the least of which are: salary, injury history, favor amongst the organization, coachability, fit with a new system, popularity in the clubhouse, etc.

 

Yes, those all COULD be factors but the only one that really makes sense would be injury history. It's hard to imagine he would say Carimi loses his job first if he didn't think Webb was the better player....But thats just my opinion.

 

 

The guys covering the combine just said Lane Johnson might go top 5. Says he's got the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft....The hoping Johnson is there at 20 ship has probably sailed.

[jason]

Yes, those all COULD be factors but the only one that really makes sense would be injury history. It's hard to imagine he would say Carimi loses his job first if he didn't think Webb was the better player....But thats just my opinion.

 

The guys covering the combine just said Lane Johnson might go top 5. Says he's got the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft....The hoping Johnson is there at 20 ship has probably sailed.

 

Maybe because of the competition each has at their prospective positions? Maybe because they dicked Carimi around last year and tried to turn him into an OG (something he's never played)? I just don't think he was comparing the two players against one another. His comment may be an indication of how their respective status is at their assigned position, but it wasn't an either/or comparison.

 

 

[balta1701-A]

Maybe because they dicked Carimi around last year and tried to turn him into an OG (something he's never played)?

This is a really inaccurate description of what went down. He went into the season as the starting RT, and they stuck with him probably longer than they should have given how unreliable he was in pass protection. His time at RG seemed much more like an opportunity to get back into the game and see if he could do anything after another player got hurt, certainly not "dicking around with him".

 

If he'd been anywhere close to average as a RT, he wouldn't ever have sniffed RG. He only got there because his play at RT was so bad he wound up benched.

[scs787]

Maybe because of the competition each has at their prospective positions? Maybe because they dicked Carimi around last year and tried to turn him into an OG (something he's never played)? I just don't think he was comparing the two players against one another. His comment may be an indication of how their respective status is at their assigned position, but it wasn't an either/or comparison.

 

 

Well lets just say you're right.... then look at this way, if he thinks he's gonna get replaced at RT, a lesser position, by a rookie/FA then do you think he thinks that Gabe should be "given the LT job to lose" like you purposed?

[jason]

Well lets just say you're right.... then look at this way, if he thinks he's gonna get replaced at RT, a lesser position, by a rookie/FA then do you think he thinks that Gabe should be "given the LT job to lose" like you purposed?

 

Obviously not. But I don't believe he, or many others, are thinking outside the box in an attempt to fix the OL problems. I think it's especially true for most sports reporters who cover Chicago sports. The only guy who was hard-hitting was hated by many (Mariotti). They're all sycophants hoping to get their sideline passes, rub shoulders with players, and use it as a potential stepping stone to Sportscenter or whatever their dream job is.

[jason]

This is a really inaccurate description of what went down. He went into the season as the starting RT, and they stuck with him probably longer than they should have given how unreliable he was in pass protection. His time at RG seemed much more like an opportunity to get back into the game and see if he could do anything after another player got hurt, certainly not "dicking around with him".

 

If he'd been anywhere close to average as a RT, he wouldn't ever have sniffed RG. He only got there because his play at RT was so bad he wound up benched.

 

I just phrased it that way because it was shoving the square peg into the round hole, and it reminded me a lot of how the whole fiasco with Chris Williams took place.