Stinger226 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 For all you Webb lovers, it ok, he wont be cut. He will either be the RT or swing tackle. Bushrod is an upgrade, the Bears believe that, Kromer believes that. There are in a better position to judge that than we are. We got better today and thats all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think we wait for value now. Hopefully a player like Moore, who hasn't been active yet in FA, lowers his $$ expectations and we can add some depth and insurance in case Louis doesn't return, or in case Carimi can't play OT or OG. I would love to know what the coaches think of Brown's performance last year and his future on the roster. Is he OT material or OG? Is he worth keeping around? We won't hear anything on that until we get past the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 For all you Webb lovers, it ok, he wont be cut. He will either be the RT or swing tackle. Bushrod is an upgrade, the Bears believe that, Kromer believes that. There are in a better position to judge that than we are. We got better today and thats all that matters. Agreed and I don't believe anyone on this board is a "Webb lover". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Agreed and I don't believe anyone on this board is a "Webb lover". Only if any posters are members of Webb's family! Bring on Bushrod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...e-or-side-step/ On the surface, and at the simplest level, this appears to be an absolute slam dunk, no-brainer upgrade for the Bears. They’ve just secured a two-time Pro Bowl left tackle to replace a tackle who has been prone to some absolutely dreadful performances in his two seasons as the Bears’ left tackle. However, as you’ll know if you were following twitter last night, we here at Pro Football Focus don’t view the move as such a clear cut upgrade worthy of the Bears’ investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What does all those stats mean? Does it mean Brees was hitting the turf a lot as a result of his play or not? I don't get all the stats crap when this guy was named to 2 consecutive pro bowls and his former O-line coach is the OC here. I predicted that he would be on the radar here and he wound up here. PFF may be just trying to justify all that bogus research they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What does all those stats mean? Does it mean Brees was hitting the turf a lot as a result of his play or not? I don't get all the stats crap when this guy was named to 2 consecutive pro bowls and his former O-line coach is the OC here. I predicted that he would be on the radar here and he wound up here. PFF may be just trying to justify all that bogus research they do. It means he let a lot of guys past him last year, but Brees didn't hit the turf that much because Brees gets the ball out faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 It means he let a lot of guys past him last year, but Brees didn't hit the turf that much because Brees gets the ball out faster. Or it means PFF's stats are flawed as hell, and they can collectively kiss me square on the butthole. Sidestep...pssh. That's ridiculous. If it was a sidestep, there would have at least been hints of Jamarcus Webb being considered decent to good, or maybe even a single guy, other than scs, saying something about Webb getting Pro Bowl buzz. The more likely reality: Bushrod is better because of having Brees as a QB, but even without Brees as a QB he's significantly better than Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 That article basically made the exact same argument I've made over the last couple weeks. Bushrod is the same wildly inconsistent player that Webb was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 That article basically made the exact same argument I've made over the last couple weeks. Bushrod is the same wildly inconsistent player that Webb was last year. Same?! SAME?! C'mon man, gimme a break. You've been making the argument based off of the PFF stats. It's not a surprise that PFF says the same thing. But to insinuate the players are the same is just ridiculous. Webb has never even garnered a sniff for an all-star vote. Webb is not as good as Bushrod, no matter what PFF says. If Webb were a free agent teams would be able to sign him for league minimum and a box of Samoa Girl Scout cookies. There is no real comparison other than they both played the same position. It's just nonsense. If it were true, then what do you make of the fact the Bears signed him? Doesn't that fly in the face of Emery's supposed love of PFF? I mean, why sign a guy that sucked like Webb? Sorry, bro, it just doesn't make sense, and it calls into question the methodology used by PFF when compiling their stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think the Bushrod signing has a better chance of being a flop than Martellus Bennett. We might all look back at this in two years and wished we never signed him. I hope I'm wrong, but he doesn't give me this overwhelming feeling of confidence that we're going to be okay with him protecting the QB's blind side. PFF is a great site for advanced metrics. The people bashing it sound like they have already made up their minds, and want nothing to do with anything that speaks to the contrary of their judgements. The only reason there is an argument over PFF is because of Webb vs Bushrod. If we were using the site to point out how well Tillman and Jennings graded out, none of this would come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Same?! SAME?! C'mon man, gimme a break. You've been making the argument based off of the PFF stats. It's not a surprise that PFF says the same thing. But to insinuate the players are the same is just ridiculous. Webb has never even garnered a sniff for an all-star vote. Webb is not as good as Bushrod, no matter what PFF says. If Webb were a free agent teams would be able to sign him for league minimum and a box of Samoa Girl Scout cookies. There is no real comparison other than they both played the same position. It's just nonsense. If it were true, then what do you make of the fact the Bears signed him? Doesn't that fly in the face of Emery's supposed love of PFF? I mean, why sign a guy that sucked like Webb? Sorry, bro, it just doesn't make sense, and it calls into question the methodology used by PFF when compiling their stats. The same in the fact that they're both inconsistent, yes. Bushrod has better "good days" yes, but they bot have their dreadful "bad days". Him making a pro bowl was a joke, PFF isn't the only one saying that. Did you even bother to read the article or are you just gonna make a blind argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The same in the fact that they're both inconsistent, yes. Bushrod has better "good days" yes, but they bot have their dreadful "bad days". Him making a pro bowl was a joke, PFF isn't the only one saying that. Did you even bother to read the article or are you just gonna make a blind argument? I think what jason is saying is that if Emery really gave a s*** what PFF says, he probably wouldn't have given a guy ranked worse than Webb in their rankings $7m/year to replace Webb. Emery has his own eyes, Trestman's, Kromer's, and all of the scouts' eyes and they likely all believe Bushrod > Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The same in the fact that they're both inconsistent, yes. Bushrod has better "good days" yes, but they bot have their dreadful "bad days". Him making a pro bowl was a joke, PFF isn't the only one saying that. Did you even bother to read the article or are you just gonna make a blind argument? I read it, but it's entirely based on PFF's stats, which I believe to be flawed. No way in hell Bushrod is comparable to Webb. Not to mention what Brian reiterated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think what jason is saying is that if Emery really gave a s*** what PFF says, he probably wouldn't have given a guy ranked worse than Webb in their rankings $7m/year to replace Webb. Emery has his own eyes, Trestman's, Kromer's, and all of the scouts' eyes and they likely all believe Bushrod > Webb. Webb now has his work cut out for him as does Carimi. Now that there are no pet projects, we will see ho we this team shapes. Webb has growing up to do and Carimi has his body/footwork to work on. I trust our staff will play the better player that brings W'S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I read it, but it's entirely based on PFF's stats, which I believe to be flawed. No way in hell Bushrod is comparable to Webb. Not to mention what Brian reiterated above. They use the same line of thinking for every player so no matter how flawed they are they're still consistent. Consistently flawed? maybe, but still consistent. They're both the same in the fact that they're both gonna have some dreadful games like the article said. Will Bushrods "good games" be better than Webbs? Probably, and Bushrod is better in the run game too so no they're not comparable in that regard but JB is more than likely gonna have a few stinkers mixed in there just like Webb did last year. Overall Bushrod is the better player, yes, but it's not that big a step forward IMO...Luckily it only counts for 3M against the cap so I can't complain too much....I just hope Marc can get Jay to get rid of the ball as quick as Drew did. We have the weapons to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 They use the same line of thinking for every player so no matter how flawed they are they're still consistent. Consistently flawed? maybe, but still consistent. They're both the same in the fact that they're both gonna have some dreadful games like the article said. Will Bushrods "good games" be better than Webbs? Probably, and Bushrod is better in the run game too so no they're not comparable in that regard but JB is more than likely gonna have a few stinkers mixed in there just like Webb did last year. Overall Bushrod is the better player, yes, but it's not that big a step forward IMO...Luckily it only counts for 3M against the cap so I can't complain too much....I just hope Marc can get Jay to get rid of the ball as quick as Drew did. We have the weapons to do so. I guess it comes down to the highs and the lows. It's like weather. Sure, Tennessee (i.e. Bushrod) gets hot and cold, but the heat is really good while bearable, and the winters barely provide snow. Meanwhile, Iowa (i.e. Webb) has hot and cold, but the hot only happens a month or so a year, and the cold days are unbearable. Inconsistency still requires a floor and a ceiling, and both are higher for Bushrod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I guess it comes down to the highs and the lows. It's like weather. Sure, Tennessee (i.e. Bushrod) gets hot and cold, but the heat is really good while bearable, and the winters barely provide snow. Meanwhile, Iowa (i.e. Webb) has hot and cold, but the hot only happens a month or so a year, and the cold days are unbearable. Inconsistency still requires a floor and a ceiling, and both are higher for Bushrod. The problem there continues to be the system. When a guy gets cold, but has help, then the fact that he made a mistake or two isn't going to kill. When a guy misses a block, has the RG next to him looking the wrong way, has a QB who is holding the ball trying to throw it 40 yards every play, it's not going to end well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 They use the same line of thinking for every player so no matter how flawed they are they're still consistent. Consistently flawed? maybe, but still consistent. They're both the same in the fact that they're both gonna have some dreadful games like the article said. Will Bushrods "good games" be better than Webbs? Probably, and Bushrod is better in the run game too so no they're not comparable in that regard but JB is more than likely gonna have a few stinkers mixed in there just like Webb did last year. Overall Bushrod is the better player, yes, but it's not that big a step forward IMO...Luckily it only counts for 3M against the cap so I can't complain too much....I just hope Marc can get Jay to get rid of the ball as quick as Drew did. We have the weapons to do so. Where are u seeing his cap hit is only $3M. I've yet to even hear what his signing bonus is. Much less any final #s for either bushrod or Bennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Where are u seeing his cap hit is only $3M. I've yet to even hear what his signing bonus is. Much less any final #s for either bushrod or Bennett Sean Jensen @seankjensen Salary cap number for #Bears LT Jermon Bushrod for 2013 is $3.01 million, according to league source. #Bears had $7.01 million on Monday. Sean Jensen @seankjensen For those salary cap geeks (yeah you, @djdurkin), Martellus Bennett's cap number for 2013 is $1.9 million, a source says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Sean Jensen @seankjensen Salary cap number for #Bears LT Jermon Bushrod for 2013 is $3.01 million, according to league source. #Bears had $7.01 million on Monday. Sean Jensen @seankjensen For those salary cap geeks (yeah you, @djdurkin), Martellus Bennett's cap number for 2013 is $1.9 million, a source says. OK thx. Still waiting to see final details of them like what signing bonus is not just total deal and gtd $$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 That article basically made the exact same argument I've made over the last couple weeks. Bushrod is the same wildly inconsistent player that Webb was last year. Here is some stats for you. Webb had 5 holding penalty's last year, Bushrod 1. Webb had 9 sacks, Bushrod-4. Keep in mind the Saints passed a ton more than we did last year. I am not sure what Webbs was 2 years ago, but Bushrod had 2 holding penalties in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Stats in sports are not really statistics in the true sense...we've had this conversation before. Just one example is the oft cited stat that Brees gets rid of the ball on average about 1sec quicker than Cutler. Ok fine, but with no standard deviation we have no idea of the distribution of those populations. Or are there two populations in the data...one where Brees has very quick 1-2sec reads, and another distribution where he has 3-4sec reads? I look at the PFF blocking stats the same way. Maybe Bushrod had as many rushers get past him as Webb but did Bushrod completely whiff on the block as Webb occasionally does? Some of this is about consistency. Everyone on this board has watched Drew Brees drop back sometimes as much as 10 yards from the LOS and hold onto the ball a long time before throwing. The fact is that New Orleans would take some deep shots every game and those plays take time to develop. Certainly Brees is far better at quick releases than Cutler is, but I think his offense is better designed for it as well. Hopefully we'll be adding more of that element to our passing game. Hopefully Cutler will learn to take the quick underneath read when that's what the defense gives him. For me, when Phil Emery and (by default) Kromer say that Bushrod was better and more consistent than Webb I'm trusting them (not that I have a choice). Is Bushrod an elite LT? No, but then again we didn't pay him elite LT money which would have been closer to $10mil/yr so I think both sides understood that. I'm also trusting that they are able to design an offense that can make better use of his 3 sec of pass protection and have Cutler get rid of the ball than what Tice and Martz did the past few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.