Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 RT @jthom1: LT Jake Long signs four-year deal with Rams. Can earn up to $36 million. Only 9/year? Christ. For an extra 2 million annually minus 1 year, Long >>>> Bushrod. Ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Beat me to it, just posted it in the Bushrod thread. If his injuries are indeed behind him it could end up being great value for the Rams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 RT @jthom1: LT Jake Long signs four-year deal with Rams. Can earn up to $36 million. Only 9/year? Christ. For an extra 2 million annually minus 1 year, Long >>>> Bushrod. Ugh Yeah, but nobody knew he'd been that cheap. Shows how much the price drops as time goes by. Never know, we may have offered him more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 We would have had to beat that offer in order to get his services. However, Emery wasn't going to play the waiting game, he wanted a commitment early in the process so he could move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 We would have had to beat that offer in order to get his services. However, Emery wasn't going to play the waiting game, he wanted a commitment early in the process so he could move on. We have to see how it plays out. If he is injury free, that would be great, but I think somewhere along the way, we made him an offer and he rejected it, but he settled for less because of the lack of interest. The first day you sell a car, you want top dollar, after a week, you find out it isnt worth as much. The one thing I like about Emery is he figures out our needs and jumps at trying to fix it. He doesnt dick around and let all our options fall away and end up with nothing. He addressed the OL, TE two huge needs and got it done. There were better names out there, but if they werent obtainable at our price, it isnt an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudgeripple2000 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 RT @jthom1: LT Jake Long signs four-year deal with Rams. Can earn up to $36 million. Only 9/year? Christ. For an extra 2 million annually minus 1 year, Long >>>> Bushrod. Ugh So your saying that you would rather pay 2million more for a guy that is coming off of torn tricep but has had injuries in the last two years to his back, shoulder, knee, and bicep? You would rather have that, than have a guy whose position coach is one of our coordinators who knows him and obviously thinks that high of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 $2 million a year is pretty big when you have to fit it into the cap. If we had to pay more for him, we would not have been able to sign someone like Bennett, so I would rather have Bushrod and Bennett over Long. It looks like Miami offered $8 and he went to the Rams at $9, so it seems like he was going to the highest bidder. We would've had to outbid the Rams to get him, and who knows, they may have upped it to $10. We were not going to get into a bidding war, and I don't think the Bears were willing to pay $9 million a year anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 So your saying that you would rather pay 2million more for a guy that is coming off of torn tricep but has had injuries in the last two years to his back, shoulder, knee, and bicep? You would rather have that, than have a guy whose position coach is one of our coordinators who knows him and obviously thinks that high of him? Long is good. Bushrod is an average LT who made the Pro Bowl because the Saints offense was so good. People all over the country are giving the Bears horrible grades for that signing. A torn tricep is fixed with surgery. It's not like it's a bad neck injury. He'll be fine. $2 million a year is pretty big when you have to fit it into the cap. If we had to pay more for him, we would not have been able to sign someone like Bennett, so I would rather have Bushrod and Bennett over Long. It looks like Miami offered $8 and he went to the Rams at $9, so it seems like he was going to the highest bidder. We would've had to outbid the Rams to get him, and who knows, they may have upped it to $10. We were not going to get into a bidding war, and I don't think the Bears were willing to pay $9 million a year anyway. That's false. They still have $5.45 left. Fitting 2 more million wouldn't have prevented signing Bennett at all. If you consider Bushrod and Bennett's total cap hits combined were around $5, that means Long + Bushrod could've been around $6, which like I said, still would give the Bears enough money to keep Urlacher, Idonije, and Campbell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I still think Bushrod could end up being a very bad signing. Actually, both of these signings could end up being bad. I'm not as confident as some. I guess only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 That's false. They still have $5.45 left. Fitting 2 more million wouldn't have prevented signing Bennett at all. If you consider Bushrod and Bennett's total cap hits combined were around $5, that means Long + Bushrod could've been around $6, which like I said, still would give the Bears enough money to keep Urlacher, Idonije, and Campbell How much of that will be used for the rookie pool ($3 mil)? They can't spend exactly up to the cap, as they need to have a buffer for injuries, etc. So in reality that number is probably less than $2 million, which is not enough to resign Urlacher, Izzy, and Campbell, and that's without the extra $2 million added on from Long. So paying someone $2 million more would not prevent the Bears from acquiring or re-signing someone? That would leave the Bears with $3.45 and they would not be able to sign anyone else at this time. Lastly, Long has to want to sign with the Bears, and unless we offered more than the Rams, then this was never even a possibility. Is Long better than Bushrod, sure, does he have some health concerns, yes, but in the end I don't think he ever was a realistic option for the Bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Long is good. Bushrod is an average LT who made the Pro Bowl because the Saints offense was so good. People all over the country are giving the Bears horrible grades for that signing. A torn tricep is fixed with surgery. It's not like it's a bad neck injury. He'll be fine. Oh, you think so, Doctor? The torn tricept isn't the only injury he's had. He played his last seven games in 2010 in a shoulder harness which required off-season shoulder surgery. He missed games due to a back injury in 2011 before missing the end of the season with torn biceps. He has had problems with his knee that also required surgery. Maybe he's behind all those injuries and he'll be fine. But that's a lot of problems, some of which can easily become chronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Oh, you think so, Doctor? The torn tricept isn't the only injury he's had. He played his last seven games in 2010 in a shoulder harness which required off-season shoulder surgery. He missed games due to a back injury in 2011 before missing the end of the season with torn biceps. He has had problems with his knee that also required surgery. Maybe he's behind all those injuries and he'll be fine. But that's a lot of problems, some of which can easily become chronic. See, I'm not a doctor, but those guys who gave Jake Long a 15 hour physical for the Rams and told their head coach he's ready to play? They are doctors. How much of that will be used for the rookie pool ($3 mil)? They can't spend exactly up to the cap, as they need to have a buffer for injuries, etc. So in reality that number is probably less than $2 million, which is not enough to resign Urlacher, Izzy, and Campbell, and that's without the extra $2 million added on from Long. So paying someone $2 million more would not prevent the Bears from acquiring or re-signing someone? That would leave the Bears with $3.45 and they would not be able to sign anyone else at this time. Lastly, Long has to want to sign with the Bears, and unless we offered more than the Rams, then this was never even a possibility. Is Long better than Bushrod, sure, does he have some health concerns, yes, but in the end I don't think he ever was a realistic option for the Bears. Dude, that $2m doesn't exactly come off the cap and make it $3.45. They had 7.01 and gave Bushrod 7m/year and Bennett 5/year. By your math, they are now $5m OVER. The signing bonuses and guaranteed money lower the cap hit. If Bushrod got 5/35 and his cap hit was only 3 million, they could've given Long $9m/year and had the cap hit only $4m. It's not like $9m/year=$9/cap hit. I still think Bushrod could end up being a very bad signing. Actually, both of these signings could end up being bad. I'm not as confident as some. I guess only time will tell. Most of these signings will be. As I said in the Bennett thread, the great organizations- SF, BAL, PIT, NE, DEN, GB- what have they done in FA? The Pats signed Amendola, Denver signed Welker, GB signed nobody, Pittsburgh signed nobody, Baltimore signed a veteran after losing half of their team, and San Francisco? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Dude, that $2m doesn't exactly come off the cap and make it $3.45. They had 7.01 and gave Bushrod 7m/year and Bennett 5/year. By your math, they are now $5m OVER. The signing bonuses and guaranteed money lower the cap hit. If Bushrod got 5/35 and his cap hit was only 3 million, they could've given Long $9m/year and had the cap hit only $4m. It's not like $9m/year=$9/cap hit. You know what I mean, and I know the average annual salary doesn't equal the cap hit. Ok, so if the $2 million is not applied this year, and you only add $1 million to the cap this year, then the extra million gets added eventually, so it is a moot point. If he is averaging $2 million more a year, and you take one year for less, then at least one year is going to be more than $2 million. So why not just take the difference and apply it evenly to every year's cap hit to make it easy? It comes down to we did not have the $9/yr to pay for Long. I would love to have him, but the Bears didn't have the cap room to even entertain the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I still think Bushrod could end up being a very bad signing. Actually, both of these signings could end up being bad. I'm not as confident as some. I guess only time will tell. You could say that about any signing or draft pick. Its a 3 year window to judge stuff like this. I wish it to be a good signing so I will look optimistically at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudgeripple2000 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 See, I'm not a doctor, but those guys who gave Jake Long a 15 hour physical for the Rams and told their head coach he's ready to play? They are doctors. Dude, that $2m doesn't exactly come off the cap and make it $3.45. They had 7.01 and gave Bushrod 7m/year and Bennett 5/year. By your math, they are now $5m OVER. The signing bonuses and guaranteed money lower the cap hit. If Bushrod got 5/35 and his cap hit was only 3 million, they could've given Long $9m/year and had the cap hit only $4m. It's not like $9m/year=$9/cap hit. Most of these signings will be. As I said in the Bennett thread, the great organizations- SF, BAL, PIT, NE, DEN, GB- what have they done in FA? The Pats signed Amendola, Denver signed Welker, GB signed nobody, Pittsburgh signed nobody, Baltimore signed a veteran after losing half of their team, and San Francisco? Exactly. I am a doctor and I just reviewed the nfl's requirements for a physical examination and, 15 hours. I will just assume that you are being sarcastic. Also there is a huge difference between a physical examination and a functional examination. The CBA decided upon a minimum requirement. I can't imagine an agent would allow a team to determine a players readiness on anything other than what the CBA allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 See, I'm not a doctor, but those guys who gave Jake Long a 15 hour physical for the Rams and told their head coach he's ready to play? They are doctors. What an incredibly flawed premise. So because someone signed him, he must be 100% healthy. They signed him for much less than he would get if he was 100% healthy with no injury risks, but the Rams decided it was worth the risk for them. A lot of players are signed. That doesn't mean that the result of every physical is "no worries, he's 100% healthy." It just means that that particular team decided they wanted to take that chance. I'm pretty sure the Dolphins' doctors looked at the same medical information and decided it wasn't worth the risk for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Getting Bushrod was like getting something for Christmas that you already got the year before. I would have been estatic though if we got boh Bennett and Jake Long. Hopefully, Bushrod will prove to be solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 All things being even Id have preferred Long, but I think the X Factor is Kromer. He turned Bushrod into a probowler in NO and wanted him here so at least we know he knows how to use him to his strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 All things being even Id have preferred Long, but I think the X Factor is Kromer. He turned Bushrod into a probowler in NO and wanted him here so at least we know he knows how to use him to his strengths. Ture. Here's what's going to bug me: Did we sign Bushrod because we really wanted him or because he was ready to sign quickly and we were desperate and scared we'd miss out. Remember, we made a strong run at RT Phil Loadholt. He turned us down for the Queens. It seems as though the other LT's, Sebastian Vollmer, Andre Smith, Sam Baker, and Bryant McKinie, were waiting for Jake Long to set the market. (on a side note, has anybody ripped Pompei for his article about the rarity of being able to sign a guy like Bushrod when all these other LT's were available?) My concern is probably based on how poorly JA chose tackles. While I loved the picked at the time, if we'd have drafted Brandon Albert over Chris Williams, things would have been much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ture. Here's what's going to bug me: Did we sign Bushrod because we really wanted him or because he was ready to sign quickly and we were desperate and scared we'd miss out. Remember, we made a strong run at RT Phil Loadholt. He turned us down for the Queens. It seems as though the other LT's, Sebastian Vollmer, Andre Smith, Sam Baker, and Bryant McKinie, were waiting for Jake Long to set the market. (on a side note, has anybody ripped Pompei for his article about the rarity of being able to sign a guy like Bushrod when all these other LT's were available?) My concern is probably based on how poorly JA chose tackles. While I loved the picked at the time, if we'd have drafted Brandon Albert over Chris Williams, things would have been much different. Except people would have been complaining how much he sucked in year 2 and 3 and would be asking him to be replaced =p As for Kromer being the X Factor, he most certainly is. He knows that Bushrod is gonna need help from the LG on passing plays so he'll look good and all will be well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 What an incredibly flawed premise. So because someone signed him, he must be 100% healthy. They signed him for much less than he would get if he was 100% healthy with no injury risks, but the Rams decided it was worth the risk for them. A lot of players are signed. That doesn't mean that the result of every physical is "no worries, he's 100% healthy." It just means that that particular team decided they wanted to take that chance. I'm pretty sure the Dolphins' doctors looked at the same medical information and decided it wasn't worth the risk for them. Uh, the Dolphins wanted him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Uh, the Dolphins wanted him back. Risk vs. reward....the Dolphins wanted him back I thought at $8mil/yr. Regardless, given his former status as one of the elite LTs in the game he is not quite getting paid like one now and there wasn't all that much interest in him at that salary so clearly the injury concerns are real. http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/tackle/ Bushrod isn't even in the top 10, so he's really only paid as an average LT, which is by most accounts is what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Risk vs. reward....the Dolphins wanted him back I thought at $8mil/yr. Regardless, given his former status as one of the elite LTs in the game he is not quite getting paid like one now and there wasn't all that much interest in him at that salary so clearly the injury concerns are real. http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/tackle/ Bushrod isn't even in the top 10, so he's really only paid as an average LT, which is by most accounts is what he is. Long only stays a elite LT if his injuries arent a problem going forward. Bushrod is just average but we had to over pay to fix a problem that has been there since we drafted Cris Williams. We just needed to fix it PERIOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Except people would have been complaining how much he sucked in year 2 and 3 and would be asking him to be replaced =p As for Kromer being the X Factor, he most certainly is. He knows that Bushrod is gonna need help from the LG on passing plays so he'll look good and all will be well. And if he pans out it proves he's good regardless of who the LG is. Though it helps having a top notch LG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 And if he pans out it proves he's good regardless of who the LG is. Though it helps having a top notch LG I kinda doubt they move away from consistently giving him LG help so we won't be able to tell whether he's good regardless. The only thing that will tell us how he has improved is when they don't give him double team help, will he be able to hold his ground or will he continue to get beat? If he woulda came here with Tice still running the line then we'd be able tell more about his progression....Luckily we dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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