My argument as told by Phil Emery.

[scs787]

I do not agree that Webb progressed last year. He was the same worthless Tackle as the last two years. You can spit out any stat you want, all you have to do is watch the tape.

 

 

As for the PFF stats from last year my last post was about the grades that Emery said Webb earned from their staff not any PFF stat.

 

First off thanks Mongo, it's nice to see that someone else realizes that my argument coincides almost to a tee to what Phil had to say in that article. I'm not even trying to say this to be cocky, shove it in anyones face, or to be a troll, I just wanted you guys to better see what I meant and why I was so frustrated with you guys when my views were legit.

 

Alright hustla... That's just silly, even most of the Webb haters here will say he progressed last year. PFF watches every game and they grade the same every year, comparing apples to apples there's no question he improved significantly every year. Something like -32 to -16 to -0.8(which is average).

 

I still see no reason why Phil would just randomly make up grades. It doesn't make an ounce of sense for him to do so, there's literally no benefit in doing so.

 

 

 

['TD']

I still see no reason why Phil would just randomly make up grades. It doesn't make an ounce of sense for him to do so, there's literally no benefit in doing so.

 

Emery's Definition of sufficient as he was using it in the same interview:

 

"they were at least at the sufficient level, which you can win with that player and his performance on that particular day. "

 

Basically, 14 of 16 games he played at a level that he didn't [play at a level to cause the team to lose. That is not saying something positive

 

That's not saying how many games he graded at any certain level. How many were considered sufficient, good, or bad. He was talking about his explayer in a positive light, just like Trestman was talking about cuts and saying they all people you want in the Bears locker room. He had that prepared, as he knew questions would be asked about Webb. That was his way of saying something positive.

 

Last year Emery said this of Webb:

 

"So you're going to be patient. That's what we're doing. We're being patient with J'Marcus, and we want to see him develop because of those tools, and what we're looking for is, we see him do it, and we want to see him do it with consistency."

 

In the interview you reference Emery comes full circle with the idea of consistency that Webb is lacking:

 

"He never gained the consistency, that sufficient level of consistency that we want out of our players. So at the end, his performance wasn’t to our expectation level that we felt we needed to move forward with it. "

 

 

What I get from that, is that Webb never progressed. BTW, I'll give you an example of Emery defending a guy from the OL with stats.

 

"There was only one right tackle that came out better than Gabe, and that was tackle from Baltimore. Gabe [Carimi] gave up 31.5 disruptions; he gave up 30. Gabe gave up 6.5; he gave up 7.5. His percentage was lower because they threw the ball more. His percentage came out better. His ranking was higher. But in reality, we’re looking at the same guy. So, in my eyes, the decision was: do we go for the playmaker or do we go for the offensive lineman knowing we’ve already got two 24-year-olds – those two guys are 23 – that are part of our mix. I made the decision to go with the playmaker. I don’t regret that decision. I know it’s going to be criticized. I feel good about it."

That was at the end of this past season. He was defending not taking a lineman in the second round the year prior. He found a way to talk positive about him, to defend his decision the year prior. How long after that was Carimi gone?

 

Obviously, if Emery felt that if he truly did play at a near average level last year, Webb will still be here. Johnathan Scott basically couldn't practice all preseason and is still here. He would be on the team in place of Britton, Brown, or Boggs. Webb worked with them to stay with the team by taking a pay cut. At league minimum, he still wasn't worth it.

 

He's gone now, who cares. You have your opinion and what you back it up with. The many that disagree have there opinion. Who really cares? Especially now that he is gone from the team. You see Emery backing your opinion, other see "GM speak", it is what it is.

[Stinger226]

First off thanks Mongo, it's nice to see that someone else realizes that my argument coincides almost to a tee to what Phil had to say in that article. I'm not even trying to say this to be cocky, shove it in anyones face, or to be a troll, I just wanted you guys to better see what I meant and why I was so frustrated with you guys when my views were legit.

 

Alright hustla... That's just silly, even most of the Webb haters here will say he progressed last year. PFF watches every game and they grade the same every year, comparing apples to apples there's no question he improved significantly every year. Something like -32 to -16 to -0.8(which is average).

 

I still see no reason why Phil would just randomly make up grades. It doesn't make an ounce of sense for him to do so, there's literally no benefit in doing so.

Wow one person agreed with you, you won the war. Now understand the horse died quit trying to feed it. How many times are you going to bring this up after you stated 50 times you were going to NOT talk about it any more. Your 26 going on 16, let it go all ready.

[scs787]

Emery's Definition of sufficient as he was using it in the same interview:

 

"they were at least at the sufficient level, which you can win with that player and his performance on that particular day. "

 

Basically, 14 of 16 games he played at a level that he didn't [play at a level to cause the team to lose. That is not saying something positive

 

That's not saying how many games he graded at any certain level. How many were considered sufficient, good, or bad. He was talking about his explayer in a positive light, just like Trestman was talking about cuts and saying they all people you want in the Bears locker room. He had that prepared, as he knew questions would be asked about Webb. That was his way of saying something positive.

 

Last year Emery said this of Webb:

 

"So you're going to be patient. That's what we're doing. We're being patient with J'Marcus, and we want to see him develop because of those tools, and what we're looking for is, we see him do it, and we want to see him do it with consistency."

 

In the interview you reference Emery comes full circle with the idea of consistency that Webb is lacking:

 

"He never gained the consistency, that sufficient level of consistency that we want out of our players. So at the end, his performance wasn’t to our expectation level that we felt we needed to move forward with it. "

 

 

What I get from that, is that Webb never progressed. BTW, I'll give you an example of Emery defending a guy from the OL with stats.

 

"There was only one right tackle that came out better than Gabe, and that was tackle from Baltimore. Gabe [Carimi] gave up 31.5 disruptions; he gave up 30. Gabe gave up 6.5; he gave up 7.5. His percentage was lower because they threw the ball more. His percentage came out better. His ranking was higher. But in reality, we’re looking at the same guy. So, in my eyes, the decision was: do we go for the playmaker or do we go for the offensive lineman knowing we’ve already got two 24-year-olds – those two guys are 23 – that are part of our mix. I made the decision to go with the playmaker. I don’t regret that decision. I know it’s going to be criticized. I feel good about it."

That was at the end of this past season. He was defending not taking a lineman in the second round the year prior. He found a way to talk positive about him, to defend his decision the year prior. How long after that was Carimi gone?

 

Obviously, if Emery felt that if he truly did play at a near average level last year, Webb will still be here. Johnathan Scott basically couldn't practice all preseason and is still here. He would be on the team in place of Britton, Brown, or Boggs. Webb worked with them to stay with the team by taking a pay cut. At league minimum, he still wasn't worth it.

 

He's gone now, who cares. You have your opinion and what you back it up with. The many that disagree have there opinion. Who really cares? Especially now that he is gone from the team. You see Emery backing your opinion, other see "GM speak", it is what it is.

 

To address the bold words, according to Emerys statement 2 were bad and the rest were sufficient or better. All I've ever said about Webb was he improved into an average OT(with the potential to be above average). Even if all 14 of those games were just sufficient, even tho he said at least so there had to be some good games mixed in, then that would make him what? Average.

 

As for the Carimi comment, it was made before Kromer and a new scheme came in. Every thing changed.

 

To address your final stanza, its just the principle of it. I got bashed mercifully for my views. I saw Biggsy tweet out "Bears GM Phil Emery had high hopes for J'Marcus Webb this season." and it simply reminded me of the whole argument I had all off season so I brought it up. I don't see how I'm off base here.

[azbearsfan]

To address the bold words, according to Emerys statement 2 were bad and the rest were sufficient or better. All I've ever said about Webb was he improved into an average OT(with the potential to be above average). Even if all 14 of those games were just sufficient, even tho he said at least so there had to be some good games mixed in, then that would make him what? Average.

 

As for the Carimi comment, it was made before Kromer and a new scheme came in. Every thing changed.

 

To address your final stanza, its just the principle of it. I got bashed mercifully for my views. I saw Biggsy tweet out "Bears GM Phil Emery had high hopes for J'Marcus Webb this season." and it simply reminded me of the whole argument I had all off season so I brought it up. I don't see how I'm off base here.

 

 

You absolutely have a right to your opinion. I will disagree with that opinion. Webb is gone and that is a good thing.

 

 

And I agree with you that the name calling is not needed.

[scs787]

Wow one person agreed with you, you won the war. Now understand the horse died quit trying to feed it. How many times are you going to bring this up after you stated 50 times you were going to NOT talk about it any more. Your 26 going on 16, let it go all ready.

 

Had Biggs not made that tweet I wouldn't have brought it up. If you were in my shoes and and read what I read after getting soooooo much shit you'd do the same thing.

 

It's funny I'm the one that I'm the one that has to let it go already when just a day or 2 before I made this thread you made the ever so classy Webb/employment line thread. Way to let that one go

 

lol its funny you should say I'm 26 going on 16 after all the childish remarks I've seen you make over the last few months lol...you're a hoot.

 

Stay Classy posters

['TD']

 

To address the bold words, according to Emerys statement 2 were bad and the rest were sufficient or better. All I've ever said about Webb was he improved into an average OT(with the potential to be above average). Even if all 14 of those games were just sufficient, even tho he said at least so there had to be some good games mixed in, then that would make him what? Average.

 

That was what I was saying, except with the opposite conclusion. He defines sufficient as a player doing enough that you can win games.

 

In 2005, Orton fit his definition of sufficient. He was horrible in one game that year. By Emery's definition, he was sufficient in the other 14. The Bears went 10-5. I think he played well below the average starter that year.

 

Emery may have seen him as average based on what he said, it doesn't mean he saw him as average tho. He didn't go into detail on the grades received for each game. It's not a conclusion that can be easily jumped to.

 

As for the Carimi comment, it was made before Kromer and a new scheme came in. Every thing changed.

 

I'm not sure Kromer or his scheme mattered. Carimi was bad last year and Emery knew it. He was defending his play vs. a second round pick and he said he knows he would get criticized. He was basically saying, yea he sucked but there was nothing else I can do. Let me throw some stats at you and say why. Which he obviously had prepared, and imho was the same he was doing with Webb.

[scs787]

That was what I was saying, except with the opposite conclusion. He defines sufficient as a player doing enough that you can win games.

 

In 2005, Orton fit his definition of sufficient. He was horrible in one game that year. By Emery's definition, he was sufficient in the other 14. The Bears went 10-5. I think he played well below the average starter that year.

 

Emery may have seen him as average based on what he said, it doesn't mean he saw him as average tho. He didn't go into detail on the grades received for each game. It's not a conclusion that can be easily jumped to.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure Kromer or his scheme mattered. Carimi was bad last year and Emery knew it. He was defending his play vs. a second round pick and he said he knows he would get criticized. He was basically saying, yea he sucked but there was nothing else I can do. Let me throw some stats at you and say why. Which he obviously had prepared, and imho was the same he was doing with Webb.

 

 

In both cases we'll just have to agree to disagree.

['TD']

In both cases we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Exactly

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Webb wasn't liked by the team.

Bushrod is.

Webb stinks.

Bushrod doesn't.

Webb graded out the same as Bushrod did.

It turns out that maybe Brees didn't make Bushrod.

Bushrod has played well albeit in preseason games.

Webb hasn't.

The only reason Minnesota claimed Webb is to assist in preparing for week 2.

 

Move on.

[Mongo3451]

The only reason Minnesota claimed Webb is to assist in preparing for week 2.

The only thing I picture here is Patrick, from the Spongebob cartoon, blowing drool bubbles when asked questions.

[bowlingtwig]

Seriously this is ridiculous but I will say SCS u asked for it and now your getting it. Hope your Happy. U ask why would emery potentially lie that's quite easy. Did u ever stop to think that just maybe sometime in the future he may have to deal with Webb's agent some where down the line. Its called not ruining any possible future business relationship. Its the exact same thing I do in my business

[scs787]

 

 

Seriously this is ridiculous but I will say SCS u asked for it and now your getting it. Hope your Happy. U ask why would emery potentially lie that's quite easy. Did u ever stop to think that just maybe sometime in the future he may have to deal with Webb's agent some where down the line. Its called not ruining any possible future business relationship. Its the exact same thing I do in my business

 

 

Lol I don't understand how this is more ridiculous than the other threads I've brought up. Because my opinion is different I don't get the right to talk on the subject? That's rather ridiculous.

 

Lol Webbs agent is a friend of the family, Webb is the only guy he represents. He can "lie" without making up random grading scales. All he had to do was give a token I wish him the best speech if anything at all.

 

Look guys I'm obviously very opinionated and will continue to dispute anything thats said so if you want this to end all ya gotta do is quit replying. You don't need to say I'm right, but if you continue to say I'm wrong then I'm gonna rebut. I can say I'll stop talking about the subject all I want but I obviously can't lol.

 

Let's just all agree to disagree and this will go no further.

[bowlingtwig]

Lol I don't understand how this is more ridiculous than the other threads I've brought up. Because my opinion is different I don't get the right to talk on the subject? That's rather ridiculous.

 

Lol Webbs agent is a friend of the family, Webb is the only guy he represents. He can "lie" without making up random grading scales. All he had to do was give a token I wish him the best speech if anything at all.

 

Look guys I'm obviously very opinionated and will continue to dispute anything thats said so if you want this to end all ya gotta do is quit replying. You don't need to say I'm right, but if you continue to say I'm wrong then I'm gonna rebut. I can say I'll stop talking about the subject all I want but I obviously can't lol.

 

Let's just all agree to disagree and this will go no further.

His agent maybe a friend of the family doesn't guarantee that this will be his only player he reps for rest of his life. Look at Andrew Brandt. He became an agent only to rep Ricky Williams who was a roommate or something like that and then he turned that into being a front office exex for GB and now he's a business analyst of ESPN. My only point here is that this is classic coach speak. U may not completely agree with his choice of words but that's exactly what this is. U never ruin a potential business relationship ever. Maybe u will learn that as u get older

[scs787]

His agent maybe a friend of the family doesn't guarantee that this will be his only player he reps for rest of his life. Look at Andrew Brandt. He became an agent only to rep Ricky Williams who was a roommate or something like that and then he turned that into being a front office exex for GB and now he's a business analyst of ESPN. My only point here is that this is classic coach speak. U may not completely agree with his choice of words but that's exactly what this is. U never ruin a potential business relationship ever. Maybe u will learn that as u get older

 

Lol I've said repeatedly that I understand the concept of saying nice things about a player who's gone. You guys rip me for sounding like a broken record but it's just so hard to get my point across to most of you.... His choice of words are far from "classic coach speak".

 

Once again, this could go on forever, so it's best we all just agree to disagree. Biggsy won't be posting anything new about him so there's no more that can be said. If you guys continue to post I'll continue to respond, it's as simple as that.....

 

"Don't feed the troll"

 

 

[Stinger226]

Lol I've said repeatedly that I understand the concept of saying nice things about a player who's gone. You guys rip me for sounding like a broken record but it's just so hard to get my point across to most of you.... His choice of words are far from "classic coach speak".

 

Once again, this could go on forever, so it's best we all just agree to disagree. Biggsy won't be posting anything new about him so there's no more that can be said. If you guys continue to post I'll continue to respond, it's as simple as that.....

 

"Don't feed the troll"

other threads were posted for humor sake, like sarcasm, you have no point, THAT IS THE POINT

[CrackerDog]

other threads were posted for humor sake, like sarcasm, you have no point, THAT IS THE POINT

 

Other threads were celebrating the release of a guy 98.9% of the board wanted gone. SCS continues to talk about himself. That's the difference. That's what makes his BS here so childish.

 

If I were a moderator I'd now delete all of the Webb threads and I'd ban anyone starting up more shit about him. The day or two after his release it was Bear's related news. At this point it's trolling.

[bowlingtwig]

Other threads were celebrating the release of a guy 98.9% of the board wanted gone. SCS continues to talk about himself. That's the difference. That's what makes his BS here so childish.

 

If I were a moderator I'd now delete all of the Webb threads and I'd ban anyone starting up more shit about him. The day or two after his release it was Bear's related news. At this point it's trolling.

And he did put at end there "don't feed the troll" after saying if we continue to talk about so will he. Doesn't that right there mean he's admitting to being a troll all after saying he wasn't trolling lol

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Let it go. Its done...whether he was average vs. below average last year is a moot point now. Argument has been beaten to death and he was lousy in the preseason and didn't stand up to the challenge. Now he's on the Vikings.

[Chitownhustla]

 

 

Lets keep it simple, no stats, no quotes. just facts so there is no way misunderstand any of this

 

Fact 1- Starting Left tackle - demoted to RT

 

Fact 2 - Starting right tackle asked to take a pay cut

 

Fact 3- Dropped to 2nd string

 

Fact 4- Cut from the team

 

 

This is not the kind of progression I'm looking for. You can whine like a little bitch all day long, throw out Emery said this and PFF said this and Mongo agrees with me, I have one buddy!Moon Mullin said this!!! At the end of the day fact 1-4 tell the whole story.

 

 

 

IF you were right WEBB would still be here, since 99% of us were right WEBB is gone. I wish I had one of those office max buttons, THAT WAS EASY!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scs787]

And he did put at end there "don't feed the troll" after saying if we continue to talk about so will he. Doesn't that right there mean he's admitting to being a troll all after saying he wasn't trolling lol

 

I posted that in green which on soxtalk means sarcasm. Figured that'd get lost in translation.

 

Cracker. I posted this shortly after Biggs made a tweet about it and the Trib posted the article. It was words out the mouth of the Bears GM. It was obviously still relevant otherwise they wouldn't have said anything.

 

Yes his downward spiral this off season isn't the progression I expected, and I have no reason to believe it isn't what Phil expected either. That doesn't change my previous argument that was simply he progressed into a near average OT who I was optimistic would continue to progress into an above average OT.

 

I know what my point was, afterall it was my point. If you continue to respond of course I'm going to defend.

 

The one thing I hate is to be misunderstood and I felt like I was misunderstood all offseason here.

 

 

[CrackerDog]

The one thing I hate is to be misunderstood and I felt like I was misunderstood all offseason here.

 

Do you even realize how childish that sounds?

 

OK, you know I defended a portion of your argument when I thought it had merit. That alone should give me some cred with you. Various folks attacked us both for suggesting that Lovie and Trestman weren't in cahoots regarding keeping Webb on despite better options. Obviously through that entire debacle I kept saying things like "Webb Sucks" but Jason still accused me of coming to his defense. So, I can see how that might have occurred with you as well. I have to be honest, I wasn't active on the board since last season ended up until the draft so I don't know what types of pissing matches you all had going over Webb. Didn't care then, don't care even more now.

 

So, given that I might have a little cred with you, I ask you, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, be the bigger man, don't take the bait, and move the frick on!

[scs787]

Do you even realize how childish that sounds?

 

OK, you know I defended a portion of your argument when I thought it had merit. That alone should give me some cred with you. Various folks attacked us both for suggesting that Lovie and Trestman weren't in cahoots regarding keeping Webb on despite better options. Obviously through that entire debacle I kept saying things like "Webb Sucks" but Jason still accused me of coming to his defense. So, I can see how that might have occurred with you as well. I have to be honest, I wasn't active on the board since last season ended up until the draft so I don't know what types of pissing matches you all had going over Webb. Didn't care then, don't care even more now.

 

So, given that I might have a little cred with you, I ask you, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, be the bigger man, don't take the bait, and move the frick on!

 

I don't know how not wanting to be misunderstood is childish so nope I don't know how childish that is. If accepting being misunderstood is childish then I don't ever wanna grow up.

 

lol why do I have to be the one that moves on...I'm telling you guys how this ends and I still keep getting replys...Everyone previously told me if you don't like the content of the thread then just don't go into said thread....It goes both ways guys.... I don't give up.

 

[madlithuanian]

Well put CrackerDog...

 

I sense scs has too much "pride" to let things go.

 

My hope is that everyone else just stops baiting him and this issue can fall off. My pea goes out to everyone to stop bringing up Webb until it is newsworthy to the Bears. Which will be if and when we play against him. He is a foe now no matter why.

 

This horse has been flogged so much it's turned into mulch 100 times over including karmic reincanation.

 

Wisdom is there to be had. But it has to be wanted.

 

Do you even realize how childish that sounds?

 

OK, you know I defended a portion of your argument when I thought it had merit. That alone should give me some cred with you. Various folks attacked us both for suggesting that Lovie and Trestman weren't in cahoots regarding keeping Webb on despite better options. Obviously through that entire debacle I kept saying things like "Webb Sucks" but Jason still accused me of coming to his defense. So, I can see how that might have occurred with you as well. I have to be honest, I wasn't active on the board since last season ended up until the draft so I don't know what types of pissing matches you all had going over Webb. Didn't care then, don't care even more now.

 

So, given that I might have a little cred with you, I ask you, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, be the bigger man, don't take the bait, and move the frick on!

 

[scs787]

Well put CrackerDog...

 

I sense scs has too much "pride" to let things go.

 

My hope is that everyone else just stops baiting him and this issue can fall off. My pea goes out to everyone to stop bringing up Webb until it is newsworthy to the Bears. Which will be if and when we play against him. He is a foe now no matter why.

 

This horse has been flogged so much it's turned into mulch 100 times over including karmic reincanation.

 

Wisdom is there to be had. But it has to be wanted.

 

You hit the nail there mad. I was gonna let this all go until I saw the article I posted. Then I took pride in seeing that me and him shared the same optimism and saw the same progressions. Showed me I'm not "Retarded" like you guys insisted on making me feel. If you guys wanna take it as "GM talk" fine, but you won't convince me otherwise.

 

I've sounded like a broken record saying this but once again this all ends when people simply stop responding...It's a wisdom you tried to instill in me that seems to be a problem with others as well....