BearFan PHX

right, so Chicago is iffy at best on keeping Justin at QB1. Thats all Im saying. Chicago hasnt been telling everyone that they love Justin and want to trade the #1 pick down. Theyve been acting like theyre looking to move Justin. I dont think thats a really controversial thing to say?

I said "with our actions" they havent said it with words, but you dont treat your franchise QB the way we have treated Justin. Compare to Arizona tweeting out that Murray is QB1.

There's a rumor today on Adam Ranks podcast that Justin is staying in Chicago, and it supposedly comes thru a reliable source from "as close a source to the Bears as you can get" so I just wanted to share a few thoughts. First off, as you all know, I don't believe Justin Fields will ever be a great QB in the league. But I wanted to underline a few points. First off, about two months ago I changed my stance from "if the Bears don't get rid of Justin it will be a fatal mistake" to "if the Bears dont draft a high first round rookie QB it will be a fatal mistake" so while I think keeping Fields is an error and will cause morale issues if they bring in Caleb (or another high rookie) I don't think that would be fatal. I do think putting the future of the franchise into Justin's hands would be a fatal mistake. But as long as they draft Caleb it wont kill us. We desperately need the new QB, but keeping Fields around another year while i think it's a bad idea, isnt a knife to the heart as long as we also draft Caleb - Fields will be riding the bench before week 7 anyway, maybe have some wildcard sets - minor stuff. I also think this rumor could have been released by Poles to create leverage in trades. Hes not getting the offers he wants, so he wants to create the appearance that we want to keep him. So while I dont think keeping Fields is a good idea, what actually matters to me is that we get Caleb, and as long as that happens if Fields stays it won't kill us.

well you know I think Fields isnt a good QB, but Nagy did screw up the team, and we gutted the roster in 2022. Those things happened too. But while the excuses do explain the lack of wins, the lack of plays where Fields made a read on time and then threw the ball says to me that Fields is deeply flawed as well. When we drafted him, he had fundamental problems that needed to be fixed, and so far they still haven't been. maybe a QB guru would have helped, but Fields could do it any day he decided to. No one made him hold the ball when he was looking at open receivers. Whatever that was probably needed a sports psychologist rather than another coach. And Im not saying Fields has mental illness! I'm saying that he has some kind of mental block in his game. lots of players see sports psychologists who arent crazy to gain an edge on their mental game.

Caleb certainly has all the football tools coming in. From here, the most likely bust scenarios come from the Bears failing Caleb rather than the other way around. I'm sure Fields fans can agree on that. I don't know a lot about Waldron, but the little I do know looks good. I'm also hearing that our passing game coordinator, Thomas Brown, is an up and coming dynamic talent that's expected to be an amazing head coach some day by people around the league. It seems they're grooming him for an Offensive Coordinator position. He'll be working closely with Caleb, and supposedly provide feedback and a check to those above him about what works and what doesn't from Caleb (and his) point of view. He's going to be unsung but very important for us, and his apparent reputation is another reason to hope things are going to go well for the Bears development of Williams. I dunno how long we will be able to keep them all, but we seem to have assembled a hell of a staff.

yup - it's the beginning of the Bears window opening. Gonna be very exciting to see it unfold. We have certainly paid the price in failure to get to this moment, and it will be gratifying to see Poles turn possibility into a winning roster.

This all seems logical and likely to me too. I also imagine Poles will add at least one more offensive lineman.

I guess, but after we've basically told the world (with our actions) that we don't believe in Justin, how could anyone expect him to come back and give his all for us? And if by some chance he did come back and succeed, I dont imagine him sticking around as soon as he is able to go somewhere else? So while the action to trade him has not yet been taken for sure, I think the door on him returning has realistically closed?

exactly, so one is gonna have to come from free agency

it sure would be good to have 3 more 2nd or 3rd round picks! But it's always like that. I'd like to keep Brisker, and i feel like Lus does too, so maybe youre right about McKinney. Zone teams generally put more money up front anyway, so thats another reason they may not want to pay big $ to a FS.

There is no doubt that the Bears didnt help Fields at all. Nagy was a disaster for everyone, and from his first start thrown against the Browns defensive line without even first team reps was a crime. After that, they tore the team down to the studs in 2022, and we werent going to win any games. Last year Justin had a better situation, but there was a lot of pressure up the middle that made things tougher. You could easily forgive everything those first two years, and even understand losing a bunch of games this past year, but Justin also didn't show flashes of reading defenses or getting the ball out in rhythm, playing in structure etc, and his mechanics have been consistently poor - so he didnt shine either. It's fair to say that the Bears didnt help Justin enough, but it's also fair to say that Justin didn't take what they gave him either. At any rate, we are moving forward and I am extremely excited about our future.

another possibility could be free agent Connor Williams from Miami. Hes recovering from injury, and the Bates trade allows them a minute to wait for him. But one way or another I think it's very likely they will add another center to this roster beyond Bates.

for sure. and he is definitely taking it as a serious issue.

^5 I'm sure we will (all) disagree at points too, but I cant imagine it being as emotional as it has been with Fields. I was early off the Fields train, and it hasn't been easy. I think we are all going to be blown away by Williams. He'll make mistakes too, he's not a God, but he's a pretty damned good prospect. Did you watch the Kurt Warner link I put above? I mean seeing it for yourself is just so powerful.

Amen! And welcome to the board!

Yeah, it's awesome! Poles has been disciplined all along the way, and waiting for years where there was talent to plug holes at those positions. Getting this kind of timing is a benefit of that kind of discipline finally paying off. It's not really luck or supernatural, but it sure does feel like the football Gods are starting to like us. Poles has made this luck - it's our time.

we are starting to look like a real roster. We dont need a haul of picks to put this puzzle together. I mean, sure it'd be amazing, but even more amazing will be putting a real QB into this mix too. I exepct another OL player in the under $10M range too. So a couple impact players AND a few more role fillers too. I truly think Poles is taking the OL seriously this offseason.

I assume, and I hope that by training camp we are all on the same page. I didnt post this because Kap says move on from Fields, because i think Pat did a great job articulating the keep Justin arguments too. But Im saying, you can see a guy in Kap who calls this trend a "cult" and "insane" and how many people have questioned his character - they both agree it's the most divisive issue in Chicago Sports history. They say that Twitter and everywhere else are "toxic" right now. So I'm saying it's not just me. And a lot of people are calling each other haters and worse for wanting Justin gone. You may think it's my tone that's so awful, but Kap had the same tone about the same point. It's not just me. And it's not uncommon. For example, I'm not calling anyone a "pig" or something like that which would be purely an insult. I'm saying it's "crazy" and "inane" and keeping Justin because you think he's going to get better is "delusional" - those are all descriptions of what i think is going on. Im directly saying I think it's become psychological in nature. Kap said the same. So it's not meant to be rough, it's meant to be descriptive of the mechanism I think I'm seeing. Some kind of cultural trend to see Justin as a victim and rally behind him. And it's nice on a personal level, but as a football strategy I think it is "crazy" meaning illogical. No need to argue whether it is crazy or not, because that's not my point here, my point is that people who are my side of the debate really think this. We're kind of shocked at it, and can't understand it at all. So this is sportstalk, not over the line awful or abusive, so let's stop using that to try to win points that are really about Fields and Williams if we can. What I've been saying is a mainstream position held by a lot of people, including those specific words. "crazy" "inane" "cult" "turd" "delusional" these arent fighting words.

Here is Kap on ESPN, posted 22 minutes ago, after everything that's been said, so not influenced by it at all, and the first minute says everything for me. It's not me you're mad at. This same conversation is happening all over Chicago. And I had no idea that Kap would use the word "cult" either. I'm not out there guys. It's just a different point of view, and it is authentically held, not with anger, but this is what I really think is happening.

right so he's trade bait after the 2026 season rather than getting nothing we could get a second or third - Poles absolutely knows how to play this draft and trade game with the cap. It really makes you realize how mismanaged our team has been for such a long time. I have a feeling that the new Bears era is about to begin.

I agree with you. I don't ever want to bring that up again. I would prefer if people didn't all just take their turns telling me how awful I am for saying "turd" a couple months ago or "delusional" when critiquing an argument being made, and I'm just saying that is in part because they didn't like what went on. But in this case is had nothing to do with you at all. So you're right and this comment of yours wasnt rude or anything. I would prefer to stop talking about it too, and that's fair.

OK I watched it - 20 minutes, and it says so much. There's bad in there too - thats why you have to watch complete games in order and not highlight or lowlight reels. But I encourage everyone to watch this and then be a reporter and tell us fairly what you saw.

take a deep breath. I mean in the NFL Fields hasn't been a winner. As for being nasty, read the tone of what youve just written. you (and others) are coming after me SOOO hard and saying I'm such a bad guy. I'm not. No one in my life feels this way. You're really far off base. But the irony is I'm talking football, the amount of personal stuff here toward me way outweighs anything from me. You might not want to hear this, but the reason you and others are so mad at me is two fold - 1) you cant stand that I'm right about Justin and how sure I am about it and 2) you got a really bad taste in your mouth about when I went after Stinger because I was done having him try to bully me for years and needed to set some personal boundaries. All through that time, I said in almost every post - let's just stop. That's all I wanted. Anyway, When you watch the all 22 full games (not highlights), watch for these things: getting the ball out quick on timing plays when the WR is open making reads, and going through progressions looking off safeties his incredible compact release and body position when he throws ball placement for WRs to gain YAC. what he does when plays break down. Youll also see some super human plays of the type that Justin makes too. What you wont see is Williams standing there indecisive. When you see him move around, watch him work BACK to the pocket and how his movement helps his blockers get position. Not taking off to run like Fields does, although that is also a thing Caleb does well. It's fine if you come away from that game (The Alabama game I cant find a public link to) with mixed reviews on Caleb. Anyone will. But you wont see evidence of the narratives you've read, and you should think about what that might mean in the larger sense of all the sports stuff we all consume. Lemme try to find you a good link. OK... Here is Kurt Warners all 22 breakdown on Caleb vs Colorado. I havent seen it yet. It just came out today, so let's call that a fair test and both watch it. Im sure it wont be perfect. But will it support or dispel the common knowledge narratives?

GREAT NEWS! Bears sign Jaylon Johnson to a 4 year $76M deal ($19M/yr avg) with $54M guaranteed. We got him locked up and he did not break $20M. This is a great deal for us. Lets go!

One way you can tell a cult is that they believe things they have no evidence for, and attack anyone who says they are wrong. Some think I am a horrible person because I wont go along with the crowd saying the King is outfitted in splendor. You read articles about his clothes and how fine they are. But just look at him. He's stark naked. Trust your own eyes, and you will not be angry at me anymore. And dont be offended when someone doesnt respect something you heard someone ELSE say as if you said it yourself. Watch the film. Anyone can do it. And it's clear as day. But if you must follow what others are saying, can you not see that increasingly all the writers etc are going over to the Caleb camp? It's not even a matter of common wisdom anymore since the common wisdom (which is often wrong!) is on team Caleb now too. Don't get stuck doubling down on bad ideas just because you supported them before. If you want the Bears to win, then pick a great QB, or at the very least stop attacking anyone who wants to. I feel NO shame whatsoever for having the opinion I hold, I routinely use facts to back it up and I also think the support for Fields at this point is psychological and not fact based. And it explains all the anger too. That's my opinion. But no matter all of this, I promise you that trying to use peer pressure to change my mind is foolish. Some may crumble under that pressure and submit, but I promise you I have never been that guy. When my eyes see something firsthand, I don't give up on that for someone to like me - that's incredibly weak. I think it's time for you guys to back off.