BearFan PHX

Oh I totally see this and agree 100%. Warren LOVES attention. And I think Poles knows to let his boss have his moment too. But hopefully, during his day, Poles feels his power as GM, and i think he does. He just has to deal with assuaging Warrens ego around the office now and again. As for Cunningham having the central role as Poles sounding board, i fully agree. I think the two of them put all of this together. I do think they briefed Warren, so he could reference the conversation theyd all had earlier, but yes, it is Poles and Cunningham's show, and Warren is being a ham. I also think Warren would like to be the next NFL commissioner. So he may be milking camera time toward that end too.

I think they brief Warren on all the scenarios and what their plans are, including the likelihood that odunze is there at pick #9, and the less likely scenario where they should have traded up. Maybe they tell him, "our plan is to hold tight and let the draft fall" and Poles asks on draft day - in order to dot every I and cross every T, whether they should trade up. Not that he was getting nervous, but just saying "Ok we are at that decision point moment we discussed earlier, are we all still good on the plan?" Kind of like when each department of a rocket launch says "Ok to launch" not that it was really Poles thinking they should change their mind. Just marking that the moment is there, and reconfirming that everyone is on the same page. Good leadership, and poker playing it turns out. And then, when it happens, they all pat each other on the back about having called it, and being steely enough not to trade up. Cunningham was Poles' confirming strength about the plan they both put together, and Warren was saying "right, just like we discussed it (when you guys briefed me)" So I think Warren is in the loop, and says fatherly things like "Trust your gut" and "you've got this" and maybe if they had come to Warren with a horrible player to pick, like taking Penix #1, Warren could step in and question it, but otherwise I dont think he does the player evals or anything and isnt deep enough in those scenarios to have a valid opinion, not to mention that Poles is the GM, and deserves the choice to be his. I think Warren tries to keep his eye on the very long term. He would be the one to fire Poles if that ever happened, so they are accountable to him in some overarching way, but not in player specifics. I do think if they wanted to make a move to trade 3 first rounders for Pat Mahomes, and pay him $80M a year, Warren would definitely have to approve something of that magnitude. Even if just to get approval to spend that much money. But Warren should never say "I think you should take Joe Alt instead of Rome Odunze" or anything like that. So, maybe more like briefing the boss, than using the boss as a sounding board. I only see player stuff moving up to Warren, and not down from him.

I think youre both right. I think Ian Cunningham was the one holding Poles back, and Warren saying later "it was just like we said" I took that to mean that Cunningham and Poles had guessed at what would happen and had briefed Warren. Warren probably told them to stand on their convictions, and it was Cunningham on the day that held Poles at bay, with Warren saying later "good job" I also think Poles doesnt necessarily needs someone to hold him back either, but its a tense time and it was good for Cunningham to be there to encourage Poles to stay with his hand.

agree with all of this, especially the part about there not being much to see, and Booker. Also the O line was piecemeal, with a basic unknown playing center. I was disappointed in Pryor, I love his size, but he got beat too much. Curhan looked pretty good. It was good to see Roschon running hard. I like him better than Herbert, but i can see why others are going to disagree with me about that. There are strengths to both players. I was hoping to see Wheeler, but i dont think he got any reps. Maybe the rain stole them. Keith Randolph Jr showed a little, but also got blown out on a few plays - Im looking forward to seeing more of him pushing Pickens for NT2. The linebackers were particularly bad I thought. All deep into the depth chart, all too early to say. EDIT - reading more Im hearing some people didnt like Curhan at all, so maybe I didnt see him on the bad snaps. I could be wrong about him of course. I didnt watch every OL player on every snap. I hope the OL looks better next week.

true but they were moving a lot of people around etc. and rookies having their first ever game. I feel like all you can take from this is whether anyone had a great performance or whether anyone got their ass kicked. Middle crap is common for a game this early I think. But yeah, if that was our team, it wasnt pretty at all.

OG Jerome Carvin (#63) is getting a lot of work at center tonight.

Yeah, it's not just the inherent risk of injury, because I am hoping Williams gets more snaps this year than Fields or Trubisky had. Im a big believer that you get ready to play football by playing football, and we have come out flat in game 1 too many times. But this Hall of Fame game is after only a short amount of camp and players are not dialed in yet to what theyre supposed to be doing. The OL is still shifting around, and hasnt had enough time together yet. That all increases the likelihood of injury for sure, so I'm glad they are sitting this one out too. I do hope the starters get a lot of preseason snaps going forward though.

yup, but for the same reasons youre right that we still need an OL

I think your point is correct. I think that if free agency happened after the draft, we'd have possibly skipped Allen in favor of OL. I think things happened the way they did because we didnt know we would get Odunze at #9 when free agency happened, and we NEEDED to make sure Caleb Williams had weapons. But yes, a stout OL is worth more than a 3rd great WR to this team at this point, things just didnt work out that way. Hopefully the OL comes along either with guys we have, or more additions. And a DE

I agree he is not likely to pay big long term money to aging players, but you cant say we wont make another big signing if the right younger player is available in a trade etc. You also cant discount a short term deal for a player like this either.

Ian for sure, but i remember Warren also saying "see, it was just like we said" I think they are a really good team, the three of them. But for sure Ian Cunningham's input is invaluable.

I dunno. I think from the 1920 Bears Drive show they wanted Odunze the whole time, and were looking to trade up with the Giants for him. And I was arguing that an OT was on the table too, but from their own mouths, they had Odunze as their #2 player!

fair point. If Poles knew he was getting Odunze in the draft for sure, he probably wouldnt have signed Allen, but he had to make that decision first, and he had to be sure Caleb had targets. You also have to factor in whether Poles thinks any OL free agents were studs far above who we signed. But in the abstract, yes, the OL is a bigger problem than having a 3rd great WR, and if you could trade Allen straight up for a stronger OL right now, youd do it. But the point remains that the OL sounds like it may be a problem, and that isnt good at all.

well said. That's how I see it too. Glennon was a short term move. The $ looks big, but we had it to spend that year. The real problem was the long term plan. And Poles has Claypool too. And Velus Jones Jr. But once he got situated, and was making more long term moves, he seems to be making a lot of good choices. He still needs to fix the OL tho it seems.

he paid what the market would bear. Im not saying Pace was good at his job, but i dont think he made the mistake youre saying he made. Other teams were interested and the price was what it was - short term to fill in until the rookie was ready. Also Glennon was coming off of his rookie deal, so this was his second contract, which is always a lot bigger if someone thinks he is a starter. I just think people misunderstand what the Glennon strategy was. He was never going to be our long term starter, and a stop gap QB still costs a fortune if they are coming off a rookie deal and this is their first chance to test the market. Was Glennon good? Nope. He wasnt. We agree about that. Was he worth the money long term? No again, we also agree, but was he worth the money for a short term until the rookie was ready? That was the move.

I think Mike Glennon was a matter of wanting a vet QB until the rookie was ready, and the price for a vet QB is just high. I dont think they thought Glennon was the future or anything, which is why it was a shorter deal. So I dont think you can use Glennon as a measuring stick for long range plans or anything like that? The rest all makes sense to me tho.

I could see him playing in the last one too possibly - thats my only caveat, everything else is dead on, and you could be right about the last one too, Im just not sure.

good point re: Texans not playing starters. I wouldnt be shocked if Williams got a bunch of preseason snaps, but even so, this is a week early.

spotrac doesnt have all the years mapped out yet, but they do say DJ Moore is an unrestricted free agent for the 2030 season. So we get 6 more years of him, that goes thru and 1 year past Caleb's 5th year option. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25119/dj-moore

yeah this is preseason game #0, I think starters will get more reps this year than in years previous over games 1-3. But also, remember we do joint practices too, and so those have a lot of live, but scripted reps too. I think things are just too new to put Caleb out there this week. You want to know you can protect him with the OL at least.

And you get the long term value of the kind of "ESP" that develops when players play together for a long period of time, and get used to how each other is going to see things, and timing stuff etc. Williams, DJ and Odunze into the foreseeable future. That's fantastic. AZ54 is right about the injury gamble, but like Mongo says, all big contrasts are gambles, and this seems like a really good bet. Great news.

for sure, and if Davis is doubtful, then we look harder at Connor Williams too. We have options.

makes sense

yeah let him hand it to Swift 3 times.

He might have a few snaps, but if they think the OL isnt ready to protect him, they could just skip it too. Id say 50/50 he plays and if he does itll be fewer than 10 snaps, just one drive. But Im just guessing.