BearFan PHX

Allen is short term though. If he was 27, Id agree with you. If the Bears are all in on creating a modern offense for Caleb, Moore is gonna need a long term partner, best on a rookie deal. Also it gives the rookie a year to learn under Allen before the burden falls on him. OL and DL are very important too, so it may well go to one of those positions too, I think WR is definitely on the table. If you only look to this coming year, WR doesn't look like such a need, but if you look long term, I think having a shot at this kind of talent demands considering it.

nah, you're making sense. Im just saying that higher round is generally early for a punter unless they are a phenom. But I dont really disagree with what youve said here at all.

Ive heard that Odunze may have off field issues partying too hard issues. Then again, to my own point, Randy Moss fell to like 20 or something because he smoked marijuana. LOL Same with Warren Sapp. Thomas looks like a good fit for us, I agree. To me the nightmare scenario is if only three QBs go before us. Then we'd probably be looking at Thomas at #9 instead of a trade down. Also, given how excellent our draft position is, "nightmare scenario" is pretty funny. Call it worst case outcome. It's still pretty damned good.

for sure if our scouts are telling Poles that, and that's what he's seeing, then for sure. No reason to trade up. But *IF* you think he's the next coming, and head and shoulders above the others, if you think you've got Randy Moss here, I think you do it. Personally, I haven't seen enough film on them to know either way. I know they are all good.

I think the question would be, who else would take him first, and where. If you had a very good feeling his first other suitor would be in round 6, then you can wait until 5 to take him?

I think it would take more than next year's two to do it, but if it took next year's number one, straight up, it would be a good move, like picking him higher than our pick will be and getting him one year early. And it'd be too good of a deal for us, so Id expect wed have to throw in #9 this year too of course, and now next years first is a little rich, so we will take the chargers second this year to even it out. So we'd get #5 this year and the Charger's second rounder this year, for our #9 and next year's first? I might do that if I thought MHJr was going to be Randy Moss or his dad.

Good stuff, assuming Latu is medically ok

I think that's right, plus these interviews arent just for this year, but they go into the file for free agent and trade scenarios in a few years too.

I love that you're educated on some of the 3rd or 4th round guys. I dont know anything down there except I heard (and cant remember) the name of the OT from Yale LOL

I know what i think about QBs (lol) As for the rest, there are a few players I know I'd like to have: WR MHJr WR Nabers OT Alt Probably all gone by #9. After that I have a few that I think would be good, but I'm not 100% sure of: WR Odunze OT Fashanu DE Verse Great players that we probably dont need roster / scheme wise: TE Bowers DE Turner Then there are players I'd love to have, but might be or are too early to draft at #9: WR Thomas OC Powers-Johnson OG Fuaga Then those that we might take at #9 or later, that I haven't really scouted enough to be sure: DT Murphy DT Newton DE Latu (injuries?) I haven't scouted CBs, and I could have missed another OT that i just didnt see enough on film.

For sure, and don't be afraid to hold a contrary position to the "draft experts" a lot of them write about stats and narratives and don't really watch the film. If you watch a player yourself, and have an opinion as a result - it counts.

pretty good id say!

it's all good. I was really responding to Grizz's comments, not yours. I agree with about 95% of what you post, and the 5% where I might see it another way, I always find you reasonable and cool, so it's all good.

Listen, this is all starting to heat up again - I am not the most argumentative person on this board by far. When someone says that shit and chocolate are the same thing, it's OK for me to say it isn't. When they keep pressing the point it's ok for me to say they aren't much of a chef if they can't see the difference. This is beyond stupid now. Fields sucks, and Williams is the best prospect in years. And it's OK for me to not only say that, but to say that suggesting otherwise is stupid. Every opinion isnt a golden snowflake worthy of admiration. There ARE dumb ideas, and when i see them, Im gonna say so. Im sick to death of being called out because I dont massage some ego praising really dumb ideas. There are PLENTY of things in football etc that are not so obvious. I dont claim to be always right or have some deep ability to know everything - that's just nonsense being thrown at me by people who say dumb things and then want to make that my fault. Most things on this board are unknown to me and all of us. I routinely use words to moderate my opinion so it isnt perceived as absolutism. But I'm DONE being called out as a bully because people argue stupid things and then cant stand the heat when someone points out how stupid it is to equivocate Fields and Williams. And then to be upset months later that I used such a hurtful term as "inane" LOL really? Are we THAT fragile? GTFOutta here. If people need their opinions to be praised, then say smarter stuff.

Williams is a clear cut #1 pick, and looks like the best most NFL ready QB coming out of college in many years. Fields was the 4th QB taken, with serious flaws that persist though his career, now as a backup no one offered even a 3rd rounder for. Fields sucks at "quarterbacking" despite his physical tools, and Williams looks to be on a trajectory that could end with him as the most significant Bears player of all time. If someone can't see the difference, I think they don't know what they are looking at. It couldn't be more clear cut.

good thought! I hadnt considered that, but youre right.

it'd make a pretty good all rookie team! Of course theyd have all kinds of trickery with four QBs! lol

he does seem more like a run stopping 1T, but I think Poles and Flus see something in him that tells them otherwise. I agree usually pure strength is a 1T attribute, and he was so slow off the snap when he was drafted, but every week for the first half of the year he got faster until he was off the ball as fast as anyone on the line - that tells me that I cant predict his ceiling based on what ive already seen - who knows how this guy can grow!

A freakin Men!

oh come on. I said even if what you said is ALSO true - trying to pretend Im being offensive is an old played out gambit. Youre not a victim, Im just having my opinion. What Im saying is youre cherry picking the comments, they dont in any way represent the general consensus view. Also, as you know, I dont even care what the consensus is, I make my own opinions, so id be the last to say "most agree Caleb will be good" as an argument. Im just saying, you cant use those quotes as proof of anything other than a contrary opinion exists, and of course it does, but in lesser numbers than the positive expectations. But yes seriously. Caleb has a clear trajectory to being the most important player in Bears history. If he wins 3 superbowls, he will be more important than Payton. He will be the Michael Jordan of the Bears. Will he achieve that potential? I have no idea. But if I had to bet (and I avoid betting) but if I had to bet yes or no on Williams, it's an easy yes. At least 2 to 1 he becomes that champion. If you're so solidly on the record that we shouldnt pick him, then youre going to feel silly when we all go crazy for the guy as he starts to dominate the league.

oh please, you are cherry picking. The vast majority of analysis about Williams is extremely positive, even if these issues are ALSO true. But we get it, you dont think Williams is special. Time will show, and then youll have to stand behind your words. I think it's going to be embarrassing, as if you'd been arguing against taking Walter Payton or something.

youre right, he isnt a tackle, and no one wants to spend a #9 on a Guard, but he looks like hes a road grader in the run game. I'd LOVE to have him, but not at the expense of the other options we will have at #9 or down to #18ish

Troy is an interesting OT prospect, but as a run blocking guard he could be a top 5 in the league type. I totally agree there are other names on that list more worthy of the #9 pick, but I put him in there because I do think he could be a real blue chip guard. Everyone talks about him as a tackle, but I watched some film, and he looks like an NFL guard more than tackle to my eyes at least.

Expect great things from Caleb, mixed with some learning curve. For example, he will need to throw some interceptions to figure out exactly how big the NFL windows are, and what the limit of his arm is. The reason any top 3-5 QB can't succeed the same is because William's ceiling is higher. Look at Justin Fields. He has all the physical tools, but he didn't learn to pick apart NFL defenses. it's a mental thing. Or a talent at "quarterbacking" thing. Every rookie faces a learning curve coming into the NFL but that doesnt mean they will all end up the same after a year of learning? The fact is GREAT QBs only come along every so often. You dont walk away from them because you think you can coach up another player who is less valuable, and can get you other picks too because of the drop in value. Fields and Trubisky should be perfect object lessons of this. It isn't just that they didn't have superbowl talent around them, they just arent as good at playing the QB position as Patrick Mahomes is, and they never will be.

OK, So if we take Caleb with pick #1, and we don't trade down, which of these players would you take with #9 if they were all available and a trade down wasn't an option? I'm not saying they'll all be available in reality, but it's just an exercise in ranking. Also, if you choose Odunze, then please make a second pick if he is not available from this list at #9? Or if you prefer, make a ranked list of several, as long as you rank them. Jared Verse DE Laiatu Latu DE Byron Murphy DT Johnny Newton DT Rome Odunze WR Brian Thomas Jr WR Brock Bowers TE Olumuyiwa Fashanu OT Troy Fautanu OT (or blue chip run blocking OG) Jackson Powers-Johnson OC I also think a list like this makes me feel like trading down as low as pick #18 is a likely scenario, but if these were the guys and you had to pick one at #9 who would it be? If I HAD top pick one of these guys at #9, I guess Odunze would be the pick. But if he isn't available I kind of like all these guys, which is why I am asking the question. The only ones I might avoid are Latu if the medicals are iffy, and Im not sure yet about Fashanu, I need to see more film. Any of the others would definitely add something to our team. Who do you think stands out?