AZ54

That would absolutely be a huge loss. I hope this is just the usual media BS that goes around during every losing season.

Why did so many teams give up on Brandon Marshall? Marcellus Bennett? Knowing he has the physical talent means and been dumped twice makes me think he won't be here for long either.

I can certainly be wrong but what we see around the league each offseason says it is not unrealistic to find a team willing to give up a day 3 pick for Cutler. When the league changed the rules of the game making it a passing league it had one key ramification: If you don't have a good QB you will not win at all. We watched Brock Osweiller get $37mil guaranteed last season, $72mil total. What's he done either before (getting benched) or after? He'll make $19mil next season. There are questions about Trubisky's level of competition yet we watched the Eagles trade up twice in the last draft and select Carson Wentz. He was supposed to be a 2nd Rd pick. Ryan Pickspatrick did a standoff with the Jets last offseason when nobody else wanted him and then earned $12mil for this season. Ryan Tannehill got a $77mil contract with $21mil guaranteed. He just threw 3 INTs against Baltimore but he had his own turnover issues with 10 fumbles the year before he got that contract. Tyrod Taylor for his 6th year in the league received a $90mil contract, but just $9.75 guaranteed. Sam Bradford saga is well known and we've seen what two teams have been willing to pay in the last 12 months just to have his services short-term. Talk about leadership questions did you see him whine when they drafted Wentz? Yeah, that got him to Minn where he was the MVP for 5 weeks before he became Sam Bradford again. In this market lies Jay Cutler and love him or hate him he's still an average QB in the league. His injury certainly complicates things but he no longer has any guaranteed money on his deal. That is an attractive option for a GM and he'll make just $16mil and $17mil the next two seasons. A 4th Rd pick is never someone a team will rely on near term but there is an expectation they'll develop into a player that can contribute at least as a backup. Beyond that the 5th - 7th Rds is pure crapshoot even to make the final roster. Teams like the Jets can't even find a decent backup QB let alone a promising young QB. Tony Romo is also out there coming off his recent back surgery. He'll want and command some significant guaranteed salary. The list of FA QBs starts with Kirk Cousins (who isn't going anywhere) then goes to Case Keenum and on downhill from there including Brian Hoyer who had trouble finding employment last season. FWIW Matt Barkley is a restricted FA. Then there is the economics of game day and, if anything, the Bears have shown that 2 or 3 win seasons do not fill seats in a stadium. That can mean as much as $5-10mil in lost revenue per home game. Maybe your season tickets still get purchased but there are parking fees and concessions revenue too. Start losing $50mil in revenue or more during a season and you will get an owner's attention. With his injury Cutler has at least 6 months of recovery so he isn't going anywhere until well after the draft. I doubt the Bears will want to cut him early with an injury settlement as that is likely to be significant money. Unless Cutler just agrees to take the bonus money he'll get in 2017. If we have to pay that money anyway why not just hang onto him until the 53 man roster cut down? By that time coaches around the league will know if they drafted Jared Goff or Carson Wentz. Or we just wait for the preseason injuries to occur.

You really think Cutler is worse than the two QBs we faced Sunday?

http://sports.yahoo.com/m/0afeb552-df94-39...-potential.html I came across this rumor mill starter and at this point it is nothing more than pure speculation. If Tannehill continues to struggle as he did with 3 INTs this past game I could see where Gase would want Cutler but Tannehill has a $10mil cap hit. The only way I'd see this is if Cutler is a FA and not getting starter offers. He will. There are no Day 1 starters in the draft class so I can see desperate teams like San Fran, Cleveland, Jets tossing something out there to get Cutler. Might be just a 5th Rd pick but if we're moving on anyway just take it.

I think we'll win one game but have no idea which one. The good news is that we'll have a better feel for what Barkley can do after meeting our division rivals. Detroit is playing good defense now. Overall the Vikings are 3rd in defense (yd/gm), Bears are 7th, Redskins 9th, Packers 14th, Lions 15th. Green Bay in particular, with all the ways their DC will mix up coverages and blitzes, will be interesting to watch. There will be mistakes made by Barkley and it will be interesting to see how he responds.

Why would it matter when he doesn't catch with his hands?

I'll gladly take this win because this team needed it and IMO they've earned it by how they've stayed with despite all the adversity this year. There is a lot to like coming out of this game but let's start with Barkley. He's better than Hoyer for the simple fact he can throw a guy open. Hoyer by and large has to see a guy open to get a completion and just can't accurately put passes around a defender. The accuracy he threw with in that weather was impressive. I think wet heavy snow is the 2nd most difficult condition to throw in (after the sub-freezing temps) because the ball is heavy and doesn't carry well in the air, not to mention just holding the ball as you release it is tricky. Despite that he was dropping in passes down field over the outside shoulder. On intermediate routes across the middle the ball was right in the belly, no jumping or reaching needed to bring the ball in. I'm not ready to say he's starter material because there is so much more we need to see against good defenses. Considering where he came from as a late arrival to the roster with little to no practice time he's doing pretty good within the offense. Kudos to Loggains because he's on his 3rd QB this season and his offense is still moving the football. Oline: I am not taking back all of my criticism of Ted Larsen, but maybe most of it. I have to give him and Kush a lot of props for the work they've done inside the last couple weeks. Despite having a bad D overall there are some good players on the 49ers Dline. They shutdown Ajayi the previous week in Miami and stopping the run was their primary focus today and they were not successful. WR: Bellamy use your hands to catch the football or you'll be dropping right out of the NFL. Defense: Impressive work today. Given two short fields to defend early on they did so. Afterward they completely shutdown whatever was left of the 49ers offense. There were some struggles early on with the 49ers running game but that settled down as the young LBs got a feel for the game. Giving up a net of 6 yds passing is a damn good day against any NFL opponent. D Line: Hicks needs a contract extension this offseason. I've seen enough to want him around for the long haul. Washington was out there while Bullard was benched for poor, and often non-existent, play. There is still a lot of room for Washington to improve but considering it's his first year at a new position he's done alright. It was Washington that had the early pressure the led to Kap moving into the first sack of the day. Goldman was his usual rock in the middle of it all but I have to believe he's still not 100%. OLB: I was wrong on Floyd. I don't think he'll ever achieve elite pass rusher status like Von Miller, who has rare elite quickness around the corner, but he might hit 10 sacks in his rookie year. I can see where he'll be capable of 15 sacks a season in the near future. Floyd's versatility as a run defender and occasional inside pass rusher, where we've already seen him split interior double teams, will make him a valuable part of our defense. ILB: Kwiatkoski had an excellent game. 9 tackles, 2 TFL, 2 passes knocked down. I think he had some misreads on run fits early on but for a rookie being out there without Trevathan and Freeman he did well. When he's in his gap on a running play that RB is going to stop cold. I didn't review the Titans game but I believe it was Kwiatkoski who stopped Derek Henry at the LOS on one goal line play last week. Time who has more experience wasn't much of a factor at all. DB's: Nobody stood out but with a good pass rush and Kap throwing the ball nobody had to.

That's probably not too good. I know we got blown out by the Cowboys but beyond that I think we've been in every game. While Hoyer was running the show we couldn't score points but despite all that the D has generally kept us in every game.

That's all true but to be honest we had many years when we couldn't draft good players at any position much less QB. That led to many years where he to fill a lot of needs each draft and, as bad as Cutler has been at times, QB never rose to the top 3 rounds of needs. Such is life when coaches and front office personnel work in a league demanding short term success instead of a long term franchise view. Fans on the other hand are in it for decades and are sometimes more willing to have a long term view. We've seen that here on the board at times with posts that say they don't care what it costs just go get a QB, and keep trying until you get it right. Then again sometimes fans don't want to go through a full roster rebuild. You can find those threads here today. Drafting a QB early is more often than not the fastest way to get fired. Given the crap-shoot success rate of 1st Rd QBs I prefer to build a defense, a running game, and an offense an average QB can run well enough to score 20 points a game. I'm ok with what Pace has done so far and in his first draft he didn't have his scouts and organization in place. in his first draft what, or who, was he supposed to trust among the existing scouting department in terms of going all-in on a QB? There wasn't a single fan on this board who trusted that scouting department. Today both fans and team are at the same juncture where there's enough time on the career clock (for Pace) to get a shot at the next QB. Meanwhile we're deep enough into the rebuild process that even if Cutler leaves it won't make that much difference next season. In fact his cap space can be used to make our defense and running game better. Pace can't afford to go through another season like this without the hopefulness a young signal caller brings to the team. That'd be true even if it were Goff sitting on the bench. "There's a future over there..."

I've never believed anything any coach says about injuries. In Minn Adrian Peterson was supposed to play a week or two after this year's knee injury, according to his coach. A couple days later he had surgery. Fox said Fuller should return in a few weeks and it's December. Either way fans get upset he wasn't right. If I had to listen to the Monday Morning Doctor crap I'd say he's day to day or week to week as well. By medical accounts Trevathan should have stayed out at least two more weeks for his thumb surgery yet he suited up early. Who knew that was going to happen the day he had surgery? I just watch who practices and if they make it through all 3 days then they are likely available on Sunday.

Maybe not exactly what you are looking for but Marc Columbo had a horrible knee injury that was far worse than the bone fractures White has to recover from yet after 2-3 seasons of surgery and rehab he went on to have a pretty good career in Dallas even though he could never bend that knee fully again. I could also list a guy named Gronkowski who went through a slew of injuries in college and the NFL and went on to become the best NFL TE for at least 5 years. http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/injury-pr...or/player/24017

Easy stuff to write. He can talk about all the negatives of losing but doesn't acknowledge any of the positives such as a defense that is still ranked 11th in the league. An Oline that despite losing 3 starters still managed to put together a decent run game and pass protection against Tenn. It's not all roses that's for sure. Yet there are some positives out there especially considering the M.A.S.H. unit that gets weekly work in the locker room. Offense: 16th in total yards per game despite using 3 QBs this season including one who wasn't even in training camp. 5th in the league rushing yds/attempt. How do you do that with the Oline and WR turnover (they block too) we've had? Howard a part of it but he's part of the glass is half full story too. 15th in passing yds/attempt and passing yds/game. 10th in sacks given up. While we can move the ball, we're absolutely horrid at scoring, 31st in the league. Defense: 10th in yds/play 13th in pts/game 7th best in rushing yds/attempt 10th in passing yds/attempt (not even sure how we pulled this off with the musical chairs in the secondary) 12th in passing yds/game 15th in sacks We're 18th in pts/game. I understand that stats can sometimes be manipulated to be what you want to see. Certainly there are categories where we rank near the bottom. Given the train wreck this team is supposed to be we're still not a pushover for our opponents.

His size and athleticism are also similar to the player they tried to sign away from New Orleans this past offseason. You are likely right in that we'd have used a pick to find a TE like this.

This season is now all about figuring out what our young players can do and who fits into the future. Deon Bush has been out there the last couple games and now Braverman is reportedly about to get called up to the 53-man roster. You can certainly expect Hall to get back out there as soon as he's healthy. I wouldn't mind taking Porter off the field because he's no longer hustling. Kwiatkoski looked good on short yardage plays making a couple good stops. Above all, I was curious who caught that touchdown in the first quarter. This guy is an athletic TE, very similar to Miller in ability, and it's worth keeping an eye on him the rest of the season. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/...0723-story.html

About once a month I watch another Garrett game and come away unimpressed. Maybe unimpressed is the wrong word because I can see the physical tools and at times they show up. This time around I watched him go up against Alabama LT Cam Robinson. Robinson handled him one-on-on on almost every play without difficulty. That leaves me wondering who the top 10 prospect is. Robinson isn't supposed to be that great of a LT prospect ( I think his feet are a bit slow) yet he's shutting down a guy expected to be the top overall prospect in Garrett who is touted as a once-a-decade edge rusher. Equally frustrating is Garrett's lack of effort once the play moves away from him. If he's got elite talent/speed and quickness I didn't see it in pursuit. He's great when he's not blocked. How much of this was injury related since he's fighting through a high ankle sprain? That's hard to say. I'll keep watching and maybe the best chance to see his ability will be in a bowl game. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/myles-garr...s-alabama-2016/ I have no doubt Garrett will shine in pre-draft workouts, plus I can see he has work to do with using his hands better as well as developing some pass rush moves. There is room for him to grow and you don't find that athletic ability with his size too often. ---------- I don't like Watson as an NFL QB. I see too many accuracy issues as well as poor decision making. I think he goes best with Chip Kelly. ---------- I first saw Julie'n Davenport mentioned as our 2nd Rd pick on Walterfootball. I was surprised to see anyone from Bucknell listed in the 2nd round. I watched his game against VMI and while I see good movement skills he doesn't have much power. VMI players pushed him around quite a bit. That was one game and it was early in the season. I prefer to see at least 3 games for any player. Still I have trouble seeing him as an early 3rd Rd pick. If he can get into the Senior Bowl and shows he can take advantage of good coaching and improve during that week then his stock will go up. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/julien-dav...rt-vs-vmi-2016/ --------- Budda Baker is a good football player but he's small for a safety. I like him. --------- Same with Switzer, except I'm not sure we need another WR. Wilson looked far better than I expected this past week, and I expect Meredith will bounce back. Then there is Braverman who I hope to see on the field soon. -------- If Kevin King is in the draft I expect he'll go much higher than the 5th Rd. I watched this INT live and it's every bit as good as Odell Beckam's signature catch. Washington has a very good defense and we'll be seeing a lot of their players in the NFL in the near future. I have watched a few of their games but haven't keyed in on King. I just know they don't have trouble covering WRs. ------------ No issues with a K in the 7th Rd.

As requested: http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/source-...-active-roster/

I think Barkley played much better in the 2nd half. In the first half he was seemed like he was placing the ball too much, kinda waiting on plays to develop and throwing a bit late. In the second half he settled down and threw with more confidence. Despite all the talk of a prevent defense he put quite a few passes into tight windows. Plus for a prevent defense Tenn sure was blitzing a lot. Their coverage may have been softer behind the blitz to prevent a big play. I saw numerous times Barkley read the blitz before the snap and pulled the RB in for protection. I thought Langford did a great job on blitz pickups today. I also felt Barkley showed more arm strength than I remember seeing from him in college. Hardly an objective thing but many of his intermediate passes had more zip on them than I was expecting. The negative plays, especially the one in the end zone, were to be expected of a guy who joined this team late with no training camp and very little practice time. His INT in the end zone was IMO a good read but a horrible throw. If he places that ball high in the back corner of the end zone it's a TD (or today.. a drop). I just don't know if Barkley can make that kind of a throw on the move. It's his responsibility to know what throws he can and cannot make. I don't know about playing with the 1st string. He threw an awful lot of passes to guys named Wilson, Thompson, Meredith, Bellamy, Braunecker, Paulsen, and #85 (yes I didn't know the name of the player who caught our first TD pass). Overall I think it was a positive performance from Barkley for his first start. Kudos to the coaching staff for getting him ready along with all the backup WRs and TEs. The opportunities for plays were there we can't blame Loggains for passes that hit guys in two hands and are still dropped. Ashkum is right, we must give defenses time to adjust to him before we can have a good idea what he's capable of. After today I'd be fine with him coming back to compete with Shaw, and Hoyer for a roster spot.

Fox has always had control over the 53 man roster and who plays. Fox also has had control over his coaching staff. With no details this conversation is a mute point. Or are they trying to figure out which one to give credit to for the defense being in the top 10 in many categories so far this season?

Watson makes me nervous. He's the ultimate tease with great throws and then a WTF moment. We have one of those QBs already. Can Watson improve? Surely, but there is the added complexity and speed of the NFL. That along with his smaller frame and propensity to run won't help him. I like Trubisky as the first QB off the board because I think he can bring what Carr has done in Oakland. Next is Kizer who clearly needs more time to develop so he won't be a starter in year 1. If Kizer has the right mentality and work ethic for the NFL job I really like his long term potential. He'll need a team (and fans) willing to give him some time. Third on my list is Kayaa. Behind those guys I'd just stay with the 3 we already have (Shaw, Hoyer, and bad-boy Cutler). Chip Kelly isn't having much success and with his NFL career likely one season from being finished I always consider that desperate men do desperate acts. I see him taking Watson with his first pick in part because he's a good fit for what he wants to do on offense, and in part because he's a winner. http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/11/12/t...ll-in-one-game/

I've read this is a bad draft for OTs. I'm not sure about interior spots but for me that's not much of a concern. I'm ok with Sitton, Whitehair, Long with Grasu, and then either Kush or, if he develops as I hope, Edison as the backup. I don't want Larsen back next year and they can bring in some late Rd value pick if they want for competition. Even though JPP owned him in the 2nd half I'd bring Adams back just to see if he can improve his skills and strength in our offseason program. He's not going to command much salary and likely next to nothing in bonus. Finding more serious OT competition is the problem.

Agreement here as well. I like Carey, even called for the Bears to draft him but he is limited in what he can do. More problematic for me is that I don't think he's ever been available for more than 4 straight games. For a guy who's mostly done special teams, or ride the bench, that isn't good. At the end of the day it will be the desire to have someone who can fill that spot on special teams better, and perhaps develop into a better RB (any player is a question mark on day 3) that drives the late Rd RB pick. No guarantees but there will be competition IMO.

This will do...

Just got home from work, hope everyone had a great day with the family and some great food.

Wow, giving up a top 5 pick means walking away from: Garrett, Allen, or Fournette. Yeah, that's just 3 of 5 but IMO those 3 are perennial Pro Bowl players. I'm confident there will be at least one QB taken top 5 (maybe by the Bears) plus there will be some rising star among the players who leave early. I'm just fine with Howard and see no reason to consider Fournette but this is about value and Fournette would be a terror in New England. Forget about the Patriots because there will likely be another team offering more than a backup QB with 2 1/2 games of tape to evaluate. We might easily drop back a few picks and stay top 10 and add a 2nd or 3rd Rd pick. More importantly for me: Put either Garrett or Allen on our defensive front and I think we're headed toward being a top 5 D. That's not something I want to walk away from too early, or pay too much for. FWIW I still like Trubisky.