CrackerDog

Yards per attempt is the key stat for QB, IMO. I got that from listening to Doug Buffone on the radio for a few years. His key to success is having this number be 7 yards per attempt. In this regard, both are failing miserably right now. As to the decision, I support it. Not because I think Kyle outplayed Rex but because Kyle seems more poised, getting rid of the ball more quickly, stepping up in the pocket, and throwing the ball away when necessary. These aren't generally the #1 things to rate a QB on but as a Bears fan, my expectations have been adjusted. Seeing Rex throw off his back foot on Saturday, pathetically, once again, was the last straw for me. Here's hoping Kyle delivers the goods and never has us questioning this decision.

I'm not being hypocritical at all. I'm making a comparitive analysis between two opinions and stating that I trust one more than the other, an NFL exec over NFO. Or, at a minimum, that Jerry's ability to evaluate offensive talent is supported by the fact that the Vikings wanted a WR he drafted. Hell, I'm not even saying I agree with the Vikings or Jerry for that matter. I'm not the one claiming I could be a GM, you are. I could've used Jones as my example instead. The point is, when it comes right down to it, Jerry acquired all of the talent on the 2006 Bears but for three players, I believe. And the only one on O he didn't was Kruetz. So, he seems to be able to bring O talent to the team although not nearly at the hit rate he has on D. If he hit on O as often, we'd run out of cap space and have different problems. Nice problem to have, I admit. Many who didn't want Benson wanted another bust. I don't know where you stood on who we ought to pick but it really doesn't matter much. The facts then suggested Benson rated higher than any other player in the draft and the long term strategy of the Bears suggested TJ wasn't going to be our guy based on age and the amount of money he would demand. There's a whole new philosophy in the NFL now where teams look at RB's as almost interchangable parts. You may not agree and neither do I, really, but we're seeing guys we didn't think would ever change teams in the past, move a lot now. Edge moving from the Colts springs to mind. Being an old school guy, I'd love to find another Payton and have him retire a Bear. Our history as a franchise, to me, means we ought to have the best RB's and MLB's in the league, at least once a generation. I don't disagree it would appear many of us could out-think Shoop. Ditka was no genius and did a wonderful job with almost any talent he had on the team. Leadership isn't always about brains although it certainly helps to be smart. I said it jokingly. Someone else made it the point of their argument against you, not me. I don't think most of us, even if capable, could just decide to head over to Bears HQ and get a job. You'll have to fight the guy who used the straw man against you on this one. I agree with you although doubt he really meant you ought to do that. Regardless, you still couldn't hold Jerry's jock.

I addressed many of your points to that stinking meddler NFO already. I'll just respond to this one. Again, my insider got his info from the Bears. THEY knew, dude. Texas gave them a convenient excuse to let him go but they wouldn't have been able to do what needed to be done had they not already drafted his replacement. My guess is, if Forte wasn't available, Benson may have been released anyway, and we'd have to be looking to FA to bring someone in. That part of my post is, I admit, pure conjecture. Benson being released, based on what I heard, isn't. As an internet football expert, you'll need to find a new web site to get that sort of information in the future. I just happened on it this time and can't be relied on in the future. Just happen to work with a guy who knows medical guys who...

AP is what makes them "elite" in most people's minds. And what I'm telling you is he was very average for the last half of the season. Being this is his second year, he ought to be the man. If he's splitting time with Chester the Molester this season, something went wrong. This isn't like Benson/Jones. He's supposed to be an every down back. And if he is, I'd worry about his ability to stay healthy and about his fade last year. That said, I'd take him on the Bears or my fantasy team right now. I'm not bashing the guy, just pointing out something many people don't realize. Your point is well taken.

Most have been around football, at an organizational and professional level, for decades. Most know talent like you know how to swirl a chocolate/strawberry twist. They can go to a combine and see guys from a distance who they know will work in their systems and those who never will, regardless of 40 times. You think because you read some web site article, written by some joker with no more knowledge about this than you, that you can step into Jerry's job and kick his ass at it. Damn, I wish there was a way to let that happen, if even for a day... For a team outside Chicago.

That "field of failures" put a team out there better than almost anyone else did in 2007. I know Rex was inconsistent but he wasn't inconsistent because of the rest of the guys around him. If he could produce in 10 games he sure as hell could've produced in 16. And that failed offense played damn well in a couple of playoff games. Not hitting on QB can be held against a lot of guys in the NFL. Most of them don't put together a team around him that can make the Superbowl without one. Did you forget Thomas Jones? Des Clark? I'm not going to make the list out for you man, do a little homework. Or get one of Jerry's minions to do it for you. And I'll have sprinkles on that cone, double dipped.

But who would bag our groceries? (OK, I admit that was a cheap shot. It was meant for humor's sake alone. No internet football experts were harmed during the typing of that joke.)

OK. But I'm not sure that's what Pix meant. Thanks for reading his mind for me though. Pix, is that what you meant?

We have an elite D and a running game that may just surprise you. BTW, do you realize what that Vikings elite running game produced the second half of the season? AP played in 6 games and averaged 50 yards per game. 3.8 per carry. He added only an average of 10 yards receiving. I know he was hurt but he was fairly healthy when we played him the second time and he looked pretty human in that game. A lot of teams thought that. And his running style will always make him susceptible to injury. Vikings fans may have a lot to look forward to but they also have a lot to worry about, IMO.

St. Clair played well the other night. Are you even watching these games? They had a backup and/or someone for the rotation. And drafting a boatload of O Line guys in this draft would've prevented that or better prepared us for this? You may not but Jason made that exact claim. That started it. Let him fight his own battles. And regardless of where the info comes from, he has it and you/Jason don't. If you were the GM you'd have it. He is and he does. And he still isn't living up to what Jason thinks he could produce with little or no information. I talked about this above. The point Jason makes is that he could do it without this information and hence why I called bullshit. You're picking a straw man out to fight about. Frankly, based on your comments here, I probably wouldn't let you serve me an ice cream cone at the DQ, let alone run my favorite football team. There's that straw man again. But to answer your question, the buck stops with JA. Nobody here has ever put their livelihood on the line with making a pick in the draft. Doesn't matter where he gets the info, the point is he has it and makes good decisions, usually, with it. Bernard Berrian was just signed away from us for #1 receiver money. The Vikings seem to think you're wrong. They're an NFL franchise and you're a dude on the internet arguing with me. Benson was the right decision at the time. Bust. Bringing Tait in was a major coup when it happened. He's served us well for a few years and now seems to be slipping. Olsen is widely thought to be a great TE and we may have found another great one this draft. We haven't had a good TE in Chicago in my adult lifetime. BTW, I agree with you on one point here, I think JA ought to get some kind of "O Consultant" because whoever the Wizard has behind the curtain pulling the strings for him on O, ain't gitten 'er done as consistently as any of us would like. All those internet experts... so little time.

So you think they could cut Rex?

I'm good with this if it happens. I think the kid earned his shot. And moreso, Rex hasn't proven he's got his head right. I like the fact that Kyle seems to get the ball out of there faster and takes fewer sacks. That ought to pay dividends this season. He's also not afraid to step up in the pocket and/or throw the ball away. Things Rex has failed to prove he can do consistently. Heck, on Saturday night, Rex threw one off his back foot again. I pointed it out to the chat we had going that night and Connor felt the same way. It was clear to most on the chat, TravD, Connor, etc. that the Bears decided to go with Orton when we didn't see Kyle come out for the second half. This is the smart move if not the sexy one. I still in my heart believe Rex has what it takes to be a stud in the NFL but he just refuses to prove me right. Coaches can't hang their hats on potential this far into your career. So, as hard as it is for me to give up on Rex, I'm behind Kyle 100% and I hope he kicks major ass all season long. The worst thing that could happen here is if we're having this Kyle/Rex discussion again in 6 weeks. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

2007 was bad. But it wasn't a collapse like we saw in the era before our current management. Going into the season the hope was Rex would take a step up and the D would remain healthy. If that happens, we're back in the playoffs and have as good a chance as anyone. It didn't. I agree with you about Eli/Grossman but I think Eli was more consistent. Looks like we're getting Kyle anyway.

One reason the O Line is in bad shape is because of the injury. You don't need to bash the pick. If he was healthy, we may not be having a conversation about the line. At least not to this extent. The line improved toward the end of the season. Further, it could be said that the biggest disappointment in the line thus far is Tait. Hell, who would've seen that coming? He wanted to be moved back to his more natural position on the right side and thus far it's been a more difficult adjustment than anyone could've predicted. You missed my comment about the Bears knowing Benson was an issue before his problems in Texas. I have this from a good source and stated this in the past. I'm not making it up to support my argument here. No, you don't. Tell me right now how many O Lineman are on the Jets and who they project to keep. How about the Steelers? I know you can look it up and I know you can guess at who they'll keep. Not the point. Jerry knows this information right now, without looking it up, and can project, based on a knowledge of the entire landscape, who will be available, at what price and who best to chase when it happens. You don't. I'm not saying there aren't questionable moves by anyone, least of all JA. His mistakes are clear. But you couldn't carry his jock. And neither could I. Fans love to believe they'd make all the right decisions. You say we'd be missing a few guys we all now love. Damn dude... That's pretty arrogant. Look at this roster. For better or worse, one hell of a lot of our players come from deep in the draft. If you're that knowledgeable, you belong in a GM role somewhere for a team. Otherwise, you're just a guy with an opinion, like the rest of us. You might want to look at the MLB standings. Cubs fans are dedicated, not losers. And they have a lot more fun, as do I, than a lot of internet football experts seem to have. PS. You skipped by the part about how this team is one of 4 where the front office can make the claim that their decisions put us in the Superbowl in the last 18 months.

Amen to that. Lots of us act like we're entitled to championship caliber football each season and unless we get it, we're going to stomp all over the place like spoiled brats and cry our eyes out. As a Bears fan in the 70's, I recall having nothing to get excited about other than Doug Plank and Walter Payton. All of the things you mention above are reasons for hope and, more importantly, reasons to enjoy the season, even if we end up with a disappointing record. I choose to have a little faith and see us taking a step back toward 2006 and not repeating 2007. I openly admit I could be completely wrong. I've never seen the fun in wringing my hands and going with the whole "whoa is me" routine. Be a kid for a minute and believe in Santa! In about three weeks, before the game starts, we're going to be 0-0. Better than about half the teams in the league by that time. Until I see it play out on the field, why not dream big? If we can shore up the line, I see no reason it can't happen. I believe in our coaches and the organization as a whole. That hasn't always been the case for me but I've seen enough to say I don't think we're being led astray by a bunch of dopes. Again, if our line is brought up a notch or two, our running game and defense should be better than last year. If we name Orton the QB, it won't be exciting football but we should see consistent, boring, fewer mistakes, offense. Fine with me! I have a Vikings fan buddy. He's looking at this season as a glass half full. Why? His QB is unproven at best and is already hurt. His defense can't stop the pass. His team hasn't done shit since he was in grade school and hasn't ever won a Superbowl. He isn't the type to openly crow but if he were, I'd remind him that but for a career long field goal by Ryan Longwell, our team records would've been exactly the same for 2007! Sure, they've got a better O Line than us but most of the other aspects of the team favor the Bears. He gets to be optimistic, so DO I!!!

LOL! I get off about 3 good rants a season. I think we've just seen #1.

Well, I have my way and you have yours. I missed all that discussion around draft time as I was having "fun" with some other aspects of my life. I just get pissed off when I see Bears management called out unfairly. If you want to say something negative about them, go ahead! You have that absolute right. But don't make a claim that you'd be better at doing it than they are. You wouldn't be nearly as good as the worst teams management in the entire league. You have no freakin' clue what goes into it. Every decision impacts 30 other elements of the team that no internet fan could possibly comprehend. Not even great brains like Nfo or Jason. There are lots of people who are "smarter" than JA and Lovie on the internet or on talk radio. They all claim the Bears are cheap or stupid or whatever. Well, the Bears haven't been "cheap" in a decade, maybe longer. Join us in the present! And those stupid bastages running the team are one of four groups who can claim to have put their team in the Superbowl in the last 18 months. Case closed.

And that's what irritates me. You clearly aren't right more often than the people running the team. I see this type of thing all the time, here and elsewhere. It's real easy to call up a radio show and talk about how the Bears should've drafted O Line with every pick in the draft. But then you'd be a complete moron. The team needs to address all sorts of issues, for now and into the future, with each pick they make. They can't say "Well damn, our O Line is going to suck so we should dedicate our entire draft to it." They have to say: 1.) We need help on the O Line. Our biggest need is LT. Let's get the best one available with the first pick we have. They did. Turns out he's hurt. If they had a crystal ball they may have gone a different direction. Or you can choose to believe PFT.com and the rumormill. In this case, it suits your needs so I'm sure you will. Per the Bears, this injury isn't related to the rumors floating around on draft day. The kid didn't miss a game his entire college career. Maybe they screwed up and maybe they didn't. But since your intent is the bash JA for the pick, assume away... 2.) They need to evaluate guys they have. In this case they expected Beekman and a few guys we've had shelved would come around. This doesn't happen over night fellas. You don't know shit about what they've seen in workouts, drills, minicamp, etc. You get a 30 second blurb on the news during sports. That's your entire knowledge base on this issue. But you and NFO are friggen geniuses and our coaches and GM are morons. Puh...lease.... 3.) You have to address other needs. I'm not certain but I believe I told you I didn't think Benson was coming back this season, regardless of his issues in Texas. I told you I heard from an insider that the training staff was concerned over Benson's injury. I was told that they said that lots of guys come back from this type of injury but that they hadn't seen the dedication or desire in Benson to do so. So, what does that mean? Do you wing it and select a guard in the second round anyway or... HEY WAIT! There's a guy we have highly rated at RB sitting there and we'll probably need one of those! 4.) They have to consider what they believe will become available in free agency when cuts occur. You have NO INSIGHT into that. None. A professional has all sorts of data in front of him. He may know that 5 or 6 teams out there are overstocked at certain line positions and there'll be a number of good candidates available shortly. That knowledge, if it exists, might change your opinion. Maybe even NFO would pause for a second... Sure, I think and you think that the Bears should've built up the line better than it appears they have. But that doesn't mean I'm right for starting to scream about this before last season started. And it damn well doesn't mean I'm smarter than JA and his team or Lovie and his. The only difference in this case is, you claim to be. And that's bullshit.

Bears Offensive Problems: More Than the Players http://chicagobearsfanforum.com/blog/?p=280 It looks to me like the QB question got settled last night. I agree with the writers from both The Chicago Sun-Times and The Chicago Tribune. I think WR Brandon Lloyd stepped up and won a job for both himself and Kyle Orton. In Orton's case, its' like being 3 feet tall in a land of midgets. But for better or worse, I think the Bears made their decision. Its also apparent that the Bears have offensive problems other than QB. No, I'm not talking about the banged up offensive line. I'm not talking about mediocre WRs. Those are big ones but what I'm thinking about goes beyond talent and health. I'm not one to blame coaches for major problems very often lately. For the most part, I've purposely laid off the Bears offensive coaching staff since John Shoop left, mostly because I'm grateful to have someone - anyone - else. I didn't even criticize Terry Shea much until he left. But the time has come to start taking a very serious look at what's going on there now. I pointed to one example of my concerns earlier in the week. The Bears first string offense did run one decent screen pass last night but its far from fixed. Now I'll throw out another concern. What was the Bears offensive line thinking when they went out for the first set of downs last night? Well, I can tell you what they weren't thinking about. If I'm offensive coordinator Ron Turner and offensive line coach Harry Hiestand, I have that line looking for the blitz from the first play, even in the second preseason game. That would be even if the line were healthy (which it isn't) and even if the Bears had a proven set of WRs (which they don't). The fact that the line was apparently taken totally by surprise by it borders on inexcusable. San Diego defensive coach Ron Rivera showed the way last year when they blitzed on the first set of plays of the entire season. The book on QB Rex Grossman is that you bring pressure early and bust him in the chops. After that he crumples like a paper bag. Even if you as a coaching staff don't believe that it's true, you have to know that other teams do and they're going to try to execute that plan. Indeed, the better teams throughout the league emulated that off and on all year. Yeah, I know. It's the second preseason game. A lot of teams don't even game plan it (though the Bears apparently did). Still, there can't be much doubt about it. The Bears offensive problems go way beyond QB. They just weren't prepared. Given the aggregate performance of the unit, I think we have a right to start to doubt the offensive coaching staff at this point. They certainly didn't do Grossman or any one else any favors last night.

I won't be surprised if Marty Booker gets axed, if not this round then sometime between now and opening day. He hasn't impressed me at all in the games I've seen thus far. He can't get separation at all. He's lost a step. Far be it from me to place vagina-man Mark Bradley ahead of him but at least he offers speed. At $2 million for the season, Booker needs to be a starter. I'm not sure we're better off with him out there than any of the other guys we have right now. I'd go with hester/LLoyd if it were up to me. Is Booker worth $2 million a season to play third down only? Not in my book. The reason I think this is relevant to this thread is, they might release him now and say something along the lines of "we're letting him catch on elsewhere." All of this goes out the window if they paid him a significant signing bonus. I don't know the details of his deal. Anyone?

Your post was right on, top to bottom, AZ54. I just watched the first half again in super high speed on the DVR (skipping all the time inbetween plays) and I saw Grossman perform well when given time. I saw Orton get better protection overall and his scoring drive was really made by two great catches by Lloyd. Both QB's played well when given time. Bradley actually made a nice hit on special teams. Still, if you have someone like him on special teams, it ain't looking good for him. The line stinks. When they weren't allowing DE's and DT's to fly by them, they were being called for penalty after penalty. I hope they get some help from JA and/or their pride as a unit comes back and they step up. Next week we have San Fran. They blitzed and harrassed the Packers this week. They'll be a great test for our line. I don't see it happening but hopefully they get their shit together and show some real improvement.

Jeez, pat yourself on the back much? I was talking about how our line was getting old before the start of the season LAST YEAR. Several agreed then. Get a room, you two.

Yep.

Pix, I hope so. But they call it preseason for a reason. These guys could still come together. If they don't we better keep 6 QB's. There may be a few "we cut him early so he could catch on with someone else" cuts made this week. Those players could be better than Miller/Brown. We'll see. Most of the cap casualties are already out there, I believe. I seriously doubt JA will leave things as they are. Ah well, at least Forte was given the opportunity to display his blocking skills. PS. Terra - Apparently you forgot about the game where the line quit on McNown and let the 49er's kill his arrogant ass. THAT was the worst performance I've ever seen by an O Line, although, it was intentional.

My opinions differ from yours in a few places. I think we're good at RB without Turner. Time will tell. Not worth that kind of money, IMO. Probably. Need to see what that signing would've done to our cap space and if we could've done everything we did this season regarding our own guys. Brohm is making news in Green Bay as being outplayed by the guy they drafted in the 7th round. Besides, Hanie is the next Tony Romo. I'm not so sure how available he was. Could be. But he came available pretty late in camp and was signed pretty darned quick. Rex is probably better on paper, IMO. LT is an issue. Benson had to be dumped. He had his chances. If he's so great, why isn't he on a roster? I'm not in love with Ron Turner either.