Lucky Luciano

i agree that center is a need and have been hoping a good one was drafted in rounds 1-3 over the last 3 years. i don't agree that it is not an immediate problem. those who think you just draft an O lineman and plug him in the same season and get pro-bowl results are kidding themselves (except in rare circumstances). this goes for not only tackles and guards but more importantly for centers. these are the guys that call the signals at the LOS for blocking assignments and blitz pickups. it takes a combination of brains, athletic ability and experience. another misconception is that any old center in any round can step in and you get results that are good enough. in today's rule changed NFL everything is geared for an offensive passing attack that scores points. that means you HAVE to have a solid line up the middle to form the pocket to keep your qb off of the IR especially with the size and speed of today's defensive tackles. we have been lucky over the years in finding good centers in hilgenberg and kreutz (who by the way was a 3rd round pick) but in today's NFL with the number of teams you have to spend the higher picks on your centers and guards to compete or the guy you spend millions on getting and is the only hope to win superbowls is getting his brains beat out like we have seen for the last 5+ years. 15 and more years ago it was unusual to draft guards higher than the 4th round. as free agency has shown in today's nfl you can spend the moon on a good guard and this is why if you want your franchise player to succeed you draft them in rounds 1-3. these type of players you need to have vision and planning to acquire as they take time to develop and draft them a year or two in advance. this is a concept that the bears have utterly failed to realize and leads to the situation we are in NOW. where the guy we haven't had running our offense for the past decades and finally DO get is in a shooting gallery and lucky to still be playing with the amount of punishment he has been dealt.

i prefer the highest quality one of the richest corporations in the world can produce and you seem content to live with an inferior product that they give you by pinching pennies. to each his own. so it goes

no doubt in the aftermath of the scab refs complete ineptitude and ignorance of the rules and play in the NFL that teams are devising ways to circumvent the NFL rules in their gameplans thus purposely in my opinion cheating. thus we are seeing stuff so out of bounds as to how the games were officiated in the past that it's in essence a no holds barred arena. the magnitude of what we saw would have and should have easily been called offensive pass interference period. that said... you did ask for this: digplanet 1990 — LSU vs. Vanderbilt: LSU completed a Hail Mary pass against Vanderbilt. It was perhaps the only time where offensive pass interference has reversed the outcome of the play, despite a traditional reluctance of officiating crews to call a penalty on any one player during a play consisting of a cluster of flailing players and so much on the line. With the touchdown called back, Vanderbilt won its only game of the season, 24–21. According to LSU Student Media, during a press conference in the week after the game, LSU's head coach, Mike Archer, showed reporters replays of the play, frame-by-frame, explaining why the penalty was a poor call. LSU later completed the season with a 5–6 record and Archer was pressured to resign, with the loss to the eventual 1–10 team often being cited as the likely primary reason for his dismissal. [url=http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/List_of_Hail_Mary_passes_in_American_football]http://www.digplanet.com wikipedia The intended receiver may find himself a defender if a defensive player has a better chance to catch a forward pass. If an offensive player commits pass interference against a defensive player attempting to intercept a forward pass it is offensive pass interference.

i have to disagree. stuff like this ruins the game and makes it questionable to the outcome at the end of the season. if a call like this caused a bears loss that resulted in them not making the playoffs at the end of the season it would be criminal. yet some want to justify this? are there bad calls even with the regular refs? sure but isn't it the duty of the NFL to make sure they correct those situations if it is conceivably possible? everyone has to play by the rules and it's the duty and obligation of the people running this show to put the best product on the field at all times or it's ALL just meaningless minutia to grab your buck.

and this justifies more flagrant violations to you by completely incompetent referee's? if anything it is the poster boy for paying these refs to be full time employees of the NFL. instead of part-time dentists or proctologists deciding the entire outcome of a season in a multi-billion dollar enterprise!!! at least TRY to get the best of the best and train them to be better. again, if the BAD refs make one bad call it's only justified they make more to even it up? wow!!

nope dude, you are way wrong here. here is what >>USUALLY 1. bumping and shoving as the ball is coming down at the end of it's flight in an attempt to make the catch or knock the ball away as a receiver or defender. 2. receivers and defenders going over the top of the guy in front of them 'within reason' to make an attempted catch or knock down. what you do NOT see and never will, if the ref is not a blind horse imbecile or reffing 'your' pee-wee game, is a receiver OR defender putting two hands on the back of his opponent and shove him to the ground while the ball is in the air more than halfway to it's destination. i have never seen this go uncalled in over 40 years of watching professional football. it just does not happen and especially if the players are standing in the open for the entire world to see and there is no doubt what-so-ever what that players intentions were. OR flagrant holding of the opponent. example: both arms wrapped around his body pinning his arms so he is unable to go for the ball. tackling any player while the ball is still in flight and to be quite honest a number of other obvious violations. sorry but hail mary passes do NOT mean you completely throw away the rule books even in todays NFL. nope, totally wrong again. my god when the play ended the receiver was UNDERNEATH the defenders body on the ground (which meant he was downed, play over) and reaching around the defenders arm trying to dislodge the ball the defender was hugging to his chest (he also had complete control of the ball the entire time)!! the stupid ref was standing right over the two players looking down at them. other than a possible gambling fix the only other conclusion has to be the complete incompitence on the refs part to call it any other way. if the rules read like you state there is no reception rules in existence and it's a free-for-all do-what-you-want game of football that can be called any way at all by the whim of the refs or the people in the booth. so goodbye pro-football it was nice knowing you.

not a chance. that was a complete and utter interception without any doubt. hate the packers all you want but that was not even a remotely close call. he caught the ball, pulled the ball into his chest, landed on the ground and maintained possession while the receiver had one arm OVER the defenders arm wrapped around the ball. not even close. also while i am at it that PI was so obvious and so blatant if you were officiating the game behind the stadium lights you could have called that one. you don't shove a player to the ground with both hands BEFORE the ball even gets close and standing in the CLEAR for the whole world to see with competent refs or anyone who has ever watched more than one NFL game in their lives.

if there was ever any doubt about the owners ONLY concern in regards to NFL football... it's NOT about the preservation of football it's NOT about the quality of the game of football it's NOT the integrity of the game of football and it's CERTAINLY NOT a single concern about the fans who lay down hard earned money to enrich these million/billionaires it's pure and simple... MONEY. ladies and gentlemen, with these scab refs this is not professional football we are watching anymore. it's sandlot anything goes and there are no guidelines or foundation in reality to the games we are watching anymore. how sad is it that a multi-billion dollar a year corporation is serving up this crap to save themselves PENNIES in ref salaries and pensions. it's beyond comprehension. this season is like watching scab replacement players and will taint the entire season whether is shows in the record books or not. after watching the end of the monday night packer game there can be no other conclusions. this $#!+ is purely ridiculous!!! even as much as i was glad the packers lost it was a horrendously officiated game and even worse than a poorly officiated ending. so to the NFL, their owners and rog GODell... thanks for NOTHING!!!!

problem #1: the bears coaching staff is BAD from top to bottom with the only 'possible' exception being special teams. the main reason the packers beat out our brains every year? we are always OUTCOACHED!! the packers or any other good team can devise a scheme against us using last years game plan on offense OR defense. it takes an entire training camp for lovie smith to come up with the opening day game plan. after that he doesn't have a clue beyond just the basics of how they want to scheme an opponent or adjust to an opponents strengths and weaknesses ESPECIALLY game day. he knows so little about offense that he is just a ghost on the sidelines if our offense turns into $#!+. he might as well be on mars counting rocks. and defense? again i am going to bring up this lovie cover 2 scheme at which our corners (for the last TEN years) play so soft off the LOS it is impossible to cover the middle zone thus giving up 5-10 yds whenever an opponent wants it. our safeties are also so deep in coverage they are little if any help against the run (or intermediate passes for that matter). this BEND AND DON'T BREAK philosophy is stupid. while we are eating up the clock with our defense on the field our offense (if we had one) sits on the sideline with their thumbs up their $%%^. we are taking away their time on the field where we are supposed to be scoring points instead of giving our opponents riding time. PLUS... we don't have the horses to play this type of defense even IF it wasn't figured out 12 + years ago. our key starters are just plain not young enough to play 4 quarters in this system anymore. OLD - peppers, urlacher, peanut, briggs. we have no DT's to run this system, we have no elite safeties to run this system, and we have no top notch COVER corners that can play bump and run which is needed in this system (which i have stated for years IS a must to make it work) and we make nearly no adjustments to this year after year. our offensive coach? again we get another never-been-there-done-that wanna be. who, by the way, anointed this guy an offensive line guru? our NFL opponents? just exactly what has he done to make our offensive line better in 2 years? we can't pass protect and we can't run block either. that said... does this guy (or lovie for that matter) ever look at previous games our opponents play? the 49ers ran it down the packers throats off LT and LE, RT and RE. we had one run around LE and that was by CUTLER. 4 rushes at LT for a whopping 6 yards. 4 rushes off RT for 15 yds and 3 around RE for 13 yards. and NINE rushes up the middle for 47 yds (36 on one play which means the other 8 times we ran for a total of 13 yards). YET... during the first half we NEVER ran the ball on first down even when we were getting nothing out of our passing game. not a single time until the 3rd quarter. defensive coach? again a supposed guru. who on our defensive line has he made better? my god he has a HOF defensive end to work with, a HOF linebacker, and a perennial pro-bowl backer in briggs. yet we can't even slow the run down. where are our tackles? problem #2: offense? what offense? we have no offensive line. we can't run block so how can we run more running plays? we can't pass protect so how do we initiate a passing attack that isn't the most basic max protect? it's like a shooting gallery out there. one play our LT misses the blocks, one play it's the LG, next it's garza (who in my opinion had a lousy game again), the RG is next and next our RT who finishes the set. no wonder cutler is half nuts. we are making david carr out of a good qb. he has ZERO trust he isn't going to end his career from anywhere in the entire line including blocking from our running backs and tight ends (which brings me back to tice... just what is he teaching these players?). the reasons for problems #1 and #2 are because we have clowns for owners and a clown for president of football operations. we will have another wait-and-see to find out if our GM fits in the clown car with the rest. as it is, he already has one foot in the car.

in my opinion... a BAD move. clutts was a good blocker and helped out a LOT in our running game. he also was good at helping our numbskull tackles and tight ends keep cutler clean. not bad either as a relief valve for cutler. so we trade a starting quality player for MORE depth? way to go.

no, i do NOT like poor coaches who never learn and consider themselves beyond approach for their faults. i don't like coaches who 'coach' scared when the point is not to better the franchise but keep their position intact. i disagree... there IS a way to determine when to pull a franchise player and they are in meaningless games or when one has injuries that can be aggrevated. what urlacher or any player wants is and SHOULD be second to what is good for the health of the team. playing players in pre-season is a whole different area. yes you need to get your players some real contact to get them in game shape before the season starts unless you are running full contact camps. but...... do you really believe that they should put their key starters in for 4 quarters the entire pre-season? there is a reason they limit time and reps for the key starters who ALREADY are going to make the team and are near locks as starters or have the age as veterans to not need the pre-season time on the field. think about it!! this is an oximoron. if you have "40.6 million reasons" do you really want to risk paying them "reasons" to a guy on IR who got there for no apparent reason what-so-ever??? in other words why risk the cap health of your franchise by risking injury to a key player for nothing.

1. belichick... a poor example on your part. in his entire tenure in new england he missed the playoffs only twice. EDIT: he actually missed the playoffs 3 time if you count his first season with the pats. 2002 - game 16 was NOT a meaningless game. at 9-7 they needed a win in week 17 and got it. they needed a loss by the jets to make the playoffs which they did NOT get. not playing brady and their starters wasn't in the equation. 2008 - game 16 was NOT a meaningless game. at 11-5 they were still in the hunt for a playoff spot but needed a loss by the dolphins or ravens to get in. so not playing brady or their starters again wasn't in the equation. 2. i don't understand what your meaning is - "don't know what your players are capable of". urlacher started all 16 games so where is lovie evaluating the talent at MLB? tillman started all 16, briggs started all 16 and cutler was already injured and not able to play so no joy there. i don't "hate" lovie. i do certainly dislike him as a coach because i don't believe he is good enough or football smart enough to be a head coach and it is even questionable in my opinion he is even good enough to be a DC. the superbowl argument is dead and has been long ago buried. he can't live on LOSING a superbowl to justify a lifetime career as chicago's head coach. his actual abilities and failures after the superbowl season have been well documented by me and other on this site for years and if you handed me a resume with the coaching decisions and personnel decisions lovie has made over the last SIX years he wouldn't even get an interview from me. as far as the NFC championship game season? are you kidding me? we got our brains beat out by the packers not once, but twice when we had the chance to put them out of contention. so that reasoning isn't valid in the least.

of COURSE he would want to play. this is why you hire good coaching staffs to make these determinations on whether it is smart or safe (past injury considerations) to play these franchise players or sit them for the good of your team the following season. would you let cutler play in that situation and risk taking a beating like he did against the giants 2 seasons ago? risk a career ending injury just because.... what? i sure as hell wouldn't. this is just one reason why angelo is gone and lovie should be.

first off this is a contradiction of reality: "coaches play their best players when they're healthy and the only meaningless games are in preseason or AFTER you've got your best playoff slot determined." 1. game 16 in a season you are mathematically OUT of any possible playoff contention is NO DIFFERENT than a pre-season game. absolutely NONE. it is completely meaningless and 'smart' coaches and organizations realize this and play the rookies or players that they want to evaluate BEFORE the off-season so they can make moves to either keep the said players they should be evaluating OR look for a better quality player to replace him. the 'smart' ones DO NOT play aging veterans or franchise players who are locks for the following season and are key to making the following season a success!!!!!!! 2. if you sit your franchise and key players in meaningless games when you are a lock into the playoffs, as you say, tell me what difference there is between this mindset and sitting your quality players the last game of the season when it matters none at all?

hmmmm.... i guess i was right, with the exception that cutler was already out with injuries along with forte. so we go all-out to beat the mighty vikings who were already on the ropes for the 2011 season to prove what? that every game counts the same when anyone with a brain larger than a walnut would play the guys with question marks going into the 2012 season to see who you want to keep on your roster before the off-season? maybe limit the risk of injury to your franchise players who WILL come back in 2012 and ESPECIALLY the aging players in a totally MEANINGLESS game? ask urlacher candidly some time whether he thinks it was worth it if his career is ended or he is limited in 2012 playing time or never gets back to his already diminishing skill level because of a game with as much import as a pre-season game. how really, really stupid is that concept? all it is is coaching and management running scared and putting their personal agenda's ahead of the good of this franchise!!! ======================================== December 26, 2011|By Fred Mitchell, Tribune reporter After Sunday's loss, Bears sit at 7-8 and out of playoffs GREEN BAY -- Success is not measured by style points or incremental signs of progress by younger players in the NFL. Wins and losses represent the only viable currency in this league, and the Chicago Bears came up short as they were eliminated from postseason contention after a 35-21 loss to the Green Bay Packers. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12...rza-zack-bowman Starting Lineups Chicago Bears Pos Josh McCown QB Kahlil Bell RB Roy E. Williams WR Earl Bennett WR Kellen Davis TE Matt Spaeth TE J'Marcus Webb LT Eddie Williams LG Roberto Garza C Chris Spencer RG Lance Louis RT Julius Peppers DE Matt Toeaina NT Brian Urlacher LB Nick Roach LB Lance Briggs LB Charles Tillman CB Tim Jennings CB Major Wright S Craig Steltz S http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...01201010min.htm Brian Davis | Yahoo! Contributor Network "Every day since Brian Urlacher's knee issues became apparent seems to make his future status all the more suspect. Urlacher injured his knee during the season finale last season against the Minnesota Vikings." http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chicago-bears...00225--nfl.html

or.... if you REALLY want to blame lovie, blame him for playing his key starters in a USELESS, meaningless, game that accomplished nothing but try to save lovie's job. that was the game that we should have sat our key players like url, peppers, briggs, peanut and cutler and put in rookies and on-the-bubble guys to see if they were even worth keeping on the team. this is what you end up with when you coach stupidly.

ok if you believe he was drafted as a need for TE and he fills that need in your opinion then i have no problem with you doing so. i just reserve the right to disagree. he is small for a TE, he is not a good blocker for a TE, he has not proved anything in his time playing at temple to deserve that high of a pick, at least for the bears. with all the needs on this team, even drafting a DT, if no offensive linemen graded out or were available, at this point in the draft makes a lot more sense to me. we at this time have just signed our starting TE and have one other in the lineup for blocking duties. i just don't see where a guy this small who doesn't block well gets on the field except at the expense of a real WR.

NE saw something in him? links to that please. are you saying there were no quality players left in the 2012 draft by round 4 that didn't have injuries? it certainly couldn't have been because of personality and character he drafted this guy if you believe his arrest reports. are you saying emery is drafting poor players or players that would have gone rounds lower so that he gets a bargain priced contract from these poor/lower round drafted players? that he can use the extra money left over for free agents cut after the draft? i guess i have never heard of this strategy before. please elaborate on it.

to me it was not impressive. we put tait who had near pro-bowl quality at right tackle which is the reason he got the huge contract into a position the chiefs were smart enough to look for other help at. so he played out most of his huge contract in chicago out of position and at an average quality. reuben brown was a great stop-gap guard with enough in the tank for time for a high quality draft pick to be groomed to fill in. the problem was we never drafted his replacement. olin kreutz was a good center with a few years of quality play left. again we never drafted his replacement and that is why an average quality aging guard started there last season and this season we STILL have nothing close to a pro-bowl quality center to step in. garza was again an average at best guard who we still haven't considered drafting a replacement. de ja' vue all over again. miller was on the last leg as a tackle and we milked that bull for a full year longer than was sane. we replaced him with an aging end of HIS career RT in tait who failed miserably and retired. did we have a draftee to fill in at this spot? hell no!! we keep adding stop gap players or tweeners and run them out until they are beat into the ground and give us the crap we watch year in and year out on our offense with no relief in sight.

i don't think it's a matter of your team doing pretty good. it's a matter of the abuse your top player can absorb over the life of his career. it's like a heavyweight fight. the body blows although not seeming to effect the outcome, add up over the rounds and really do make a difference in whether he can absorb that much punishment that will wear down his strength and effect his ability to still fight at a high level. so you not only have the chance to end his career in one blow but certainly shorten it with added smaller injuries and abuse over time. also... the packers have been drafting OL for some time now because they do realize this.

1. a lot of players are predicted to go in X round end up being undrafted. the G we picked up, james brown, was projected as a 3rd round pick. even if this guy projected as a 5th or 6th with his very real and serious off-field problems there was a real possibility he would never have been drafted at all. he wasn't even listed as a TE but FB in USA Today Draft Preview. so it was a very poor choice that even on their board, which to me is mindboggling, it would have been much wiser and smarter to look for him in the 6th. if he turns out to be a good player it was not a real need for this team as we just signed a good blocking FB in clutts and at TE we have an excellent blocking spaeth (sp) and a just signed davis. so where is he going to fit in? do we sit hester or bennett to get him playing time in a multiple receiver set? he certainly doesn't get the nod as a good *blocker by any means. 2. i keep hearing that he is compared to aaron hernandez. by who? the only comparrisons i have heard are from his former coach at temple who did coach hernandez and... himself. anyone have any links to where a viable draft site has him listed as such? one more item on this... it is very misleading for anyone to say he was reviewed on the patriots board. i went to that link, http://www.patriots.com/media-center/video...c1-0411f697e71d and it is by no means relating to being on the patriots DRAFT board. there would be absolutely no reason he would be as they have the real hernandez and he is only in his second year in the NFL. 3. my final say... even if he turns out to be a good player, he was a very big reach in the 4th round for someone we usually send packing for even half of the serious problems this guy has already displayed and a player at a position that we don't remotely need to fill at this time while the rest of our team suffers from quality ball players. even drafting a DT would have made more sense at this spot but i believe the best pick here would have been the S/CB we picked up in the 3rd round a whole round (and maybe more) than he would have gone. *WEAKNESSES Rodriguez is almost nonexistent in the pass game, and his athletic ability is suspect when watching him work in attempt to get to the second level and block linebackers. He may have a tough time winning with strength or speed at the next level, two traits that players in his role often rely on to out-match would-be defenders since he is smaller than some linebackers and definitely not as fast as safeties. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/eva...guez?id=2532991 --------------------- Undersized and lacks ideal measureables, showing tweener traits. Doesn't have overwhelming strength and lacks much build or muscle definition. Not a sudden athlete and lacks ideal speed, struggling to separate in tight spaces. His blocking leaves a lot to be desired, lacking the power to create running lanes. Fails to square-up his target consistently and doesn't sustain blocks long enough, struggling with blocking angles. Raw as a route runner and is a bit stiff when trying to swiftly redirect his momentum. Needs to develop more of a finishing attitude to pick up as many yards as possible. A smaller target and allows too many balls into his body. Had only one career rush attempt at Temple with underwhelming overall production, finishing with only 7 career scores in 28 starts as a three-year starter. He was considered lazy and an underachiever his first three seasons in college. NFL Comparison: James Casey, Houston Texans -- Dane Brugler http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players.../evan-rodriguez ---------------- Not tough or physical — could stand to get stronger and become more of a finisher. Gets outmuscled in line. Too reliant on athletic ability — not a savvy route runner. Limited elusiveness and tackle-breaking ability. Is immature and does not know what it means to be a pro. Character and dependability need to be investigated. Summary: Athletic, finesse, high-maintenance “move” player with tweener traits and off-the-field red flags. Would benefit from the presence of a demanding father-figure presence in a city far from the East Coast, where trouble has followed him http://cache.profootballweekly.com/prospec...n-rodriguez-88/

if it was a joke or sarcasm my bad and my apology. if not then so it goes.

hey how is this for a scintillating remark... stick it where the sun don't shine A$$HOLE!!!

ok then my apologies. it's just frustrating to have something like that done for no reason. this is a draft day where there will be a lot of people bitching and a lot of people happy but it's still not a reason to absorb someones posts into another thread at this point.

oh, well by all means let me know what WOULD throw off enough sparks to keep my threads on this board. you want it full of four lettered words or hate crime comments from me for it to be strong enough for YOU to leave a post on this board???? glad to see GOD is here and watching.