jason
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Posts posted by jason
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I think we can say that the Bears have a game plan, and what they have did so far is clear.
A #1 WR and they have Marshall. In the last 5 years they is only one WR that has more catches, Welker.
Fix the backup QB spot, they now have 2 that could give us good minutes.
Resign who they wanted back from our own. Ildonije, Stelz, McCown, Davis, Bell, Jennings.(I think they still may sign Okoye.
They chased Mincey and didnt get him, so that tells me DE will probably be our # 1 round pick. They wont be going after Wimbley.( to much money)
That they are satisfied with the Oline, but are trying for Herrera, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick at OT.
They resigned Davis and will bring in a draft pick at TE. Our TE coach went to Miss pro day and worked out Egnew.
At CB they are still trying to sign Hayden on the cheap, and will draft one.
There wont be anymore big contract signing, people like Hayden, Herrera, Okoye,and maybe a WR at there price.
I dont agree with the lack of attention for the OL but am ok for what they have did so far.
I think they will still get Okoye, Hayden, Herrera, and Bush in FAgency. I also think they will sign one more WR on the cheap(S. Smith)Phil
I think the draft will look like this;
#1 Merculis/DE/Ill
#2 Massie/OT/Miss
#3 Toon/WR/Wis
#4 Judie/CB/Tex AM
#5 Egnew/TE/Miss
#6 Messina/MLB/New Mex
#7 Mitchell/FS/Ore State
What I would do different. I would go after Wimbley in FA, which means will still have to cut someone to make room. Suggestions.Williams/OT, Barber/RB
Would then draft according;
#1 Adams/OT/Ohio S
#2 T.Johnson/CB/Mont I am ok with the rest of the draft.
So what we got. QB-great situtation
WR-Marshall,Bennett/Toon/Smith/Weems/Hester
TE-Davis, Spath,Egnew
OL-Adams,Herrera,Garza,Spencer,Carmi
DE-Wimbley,Peppers,Odonije
CB-Tillman,Jennings,Johnson,Moore
S-Conte,Wright,Stetz, Mitchell
We cant fix all our problems in one offseason, but this is a start.
Nice analysis. But cut Williams and keep Spencer?! No way. Williams is easily better, and still has significant upside.
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Ha it took Manning Brees, Rodgers, Brady and a few others 0.68 to get sacked uuuummm yes you are right. But what you don't understand is that when you use these sets you already know you are going to throw the ball quickly...thats why you spread the defense out......so they cant rush and bring the house.....and if they do.. one quick pass can go for 20+ yards everytime!!!!
Bears OL
Bears WRs
Bears QB
Please stop with the nonsensical comparisons to teams that are clearly more qualified, in mulitiple ways, to exploit defenses with 4 and 5 WR sets. Ideal world, we agree with you. It'd be great to throw out a ton of weapons and say, "I dare you to cover them!" But this is not an ideal world, and the Bears don't have the tools the other teams have.
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i still am not getting your point in this. you mention 4 and 6 win seasons in order to draft highly and give playing time to young players. what young players? at what positions? what does that mean? are you talking about purposely tanking an entire season to draft in the top 10? if so nobody has ever said anything like that including me.
1. the gist of the discussion of drafting players highly and groom them with little or no game time behind quality aging players is geared more at two very specialized area's... offensive linemen and the quarterback position. these specifically are positions unique in the NFL compared to any other. most importantly, the OL plays together as a whole, a unit, to protect the most important player in your franchise which is the quarterback. unlike any other position you do NOT rotate players into the lineup to give one player a rest, experience or to give a different look your offense. continuity is paramount.
when you infuse a lineman who is young and inexperienced there is a risk factor involved that has a direct effect on the health of your franchises future. this is why, if it is possible, you give that player a space in time to acclimate himself to play in the NFL with a 'quality' aging OL player at the end of his career it makes sense to me that you sit that 1st or 2nd round pick for a season and let him learn not only the playbook and terminology of this new offense but adjust to the speed of the game. that said, of COURSE if the player this man is to replace is of inferior quality then sure, you do put him in but have the intelligence to compensate for his erratic play until he does get up to speed and save your qb some hospital time.
if you are a good GM and judge of talent this should NOT be a factor in drafting a player that high and of that quality because he won't necessarily START that particular season!!! *see below...
unfortunately we are forced in the position now, thanks to the horrendous drafts and incompetence by angelo, to draft and replace an entire offensive line (with the possible exception of RT) that would have to travel miles to be even average to protect our franchise qb. this is not a luxury but a solid must, top priority. if we lost cutler and ended his career due to injury how far does winning a superbowl get from here? it's basically non-existant.
*examples of this?
olin kreutz at center. angelo SHOULD have drafted a high quality center 2-3 years ago to replace him and please don't bring up josh beekman who couldn't even replace a one armed guard. kruetz could have played his career out while the young center learned the ropes and stepped in seamlessly.
the minute we hired reuben brown as a guard we should have drafted a 2nd or 3rd round quality guard to replace him within 1-2 years. the minute we hired fred miller we should have drafted a RT if they couldn't find a replacement at LT for tait.
our LT? we should have drafted a LT in the first round the minute we moved tait out of his RT position. in essence we wasted not just the LT position with average play we wasted very good to pro-bowl quality play at the RT position we paid dearly to fill.
going a little further, if cutler were our franchise qb and he was in the 33 - 34 year old range how smart would it be to draft a first round qb to replace him in a year or 2 and let him learn behind a good qb just like the packers did with rogers? obviously too smart for this franchise to comprehend.
2. let's start where the entire focus on this begins. BECAUSE of poor drafting over a period of 10 years, thank you very much jerry angelo and mike mccaskey/ted phillips, we are at the point where we have absolutely nothing in place for our future other than one or two positions on our entire team and even one of those, cutler, was not even drafted by us.
this is just one reason why i would have replaced the entire coaching staff at the very least this season with a coach like fisher or cowher instead of tying our GM's hands behind his back before he even arrived in chicago.
finally, you mention urlacher, peppers and tillman (who is and has been a number TWO corner) withering on the vine. believe me, if we greatly improved our chances to be superbowl contenders for a decade by rebuilding for a year or two and letting these guys end their careers here or even elsewhere i would do it in a new york minute.
Absolutely spot on post! Perfect logic from beginning to end.
This is exactly how I feel about the OL. Unfortunately, the Bears are not in a position to follow the early part of your reasoning. Webb sucks at OT. E.Williams and C. Spencer are below average OG. Louis is average at best at OG, and sucks at OT. This kind of stuff should have been thought about for a long time.
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If they come out of the first with Martin or Adams,I'd be happy but I wouldn't be surprise if a defensive player was taken in the first(DT,DE or CB). If that happens Osemele and Sanders come into play.
I wouldn't be surprised either. Lovie has always, and always will, put his defense above his offense. His reputation as a defensive coach depends on it.
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I actually hope the draft starts OL/OL.
RD1: Adams, LT, Ohio State
RD2: Osemele, OG, Iowa State --OR-- Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin
That would be awesome.
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I saw him live in the Oakland game, and he terrorized the Bears OL. He was constantly getting double-teamed, chipped a few times, but generally pushed his side of the OL into the backfield on just about every play. On top of that he had the long INT return on the tipped ball...but got ran down by Lance Louis.
From that one game, I'd say it's hard to tell, but that's only because the Bears OL sucked so bad. He did look fast on the rush though.
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I think you need to reread and remember that your whole arguement was that the Bears would not be getting three WR. No matter how you try to put your spin on it.......they got Marshall, Weems and may draft another. That is what I have been saying this whole time, just in another way. Like Jackson, Robinson(cheap) and the draft of Floyd/Hill. Either way if we draft one in the first RD of fifth we drafted another WR...which was my point to begin with. But i wanted three big tall WR to go with Hester, Bennett, and Knox not three more smurfs! So you draft your team and I'll do mine and we will beat yours 45-.20 cause you cant stop my WR's.....lol
Sorry I didn't feel like writing a dissertation every time I posted on the forum. Sometimes you have read into posts. I'm not spinning, just using common sense. It's so common that everyone on the board other than you and maybe one other agrees with it. It's so common that even az agrees with me. That doesn't happen often. No matter how many times you reply, you're wrong and the idea is stupid.
1. Weems does not factor into the conversation. His position may as well be ST, and not WR.
1a. Marshall+Weems+Floyd/Hill Marshall+Robinson+Floyd/Hill.
1b. Put another way, WR+ST+1st round WR WR+ST+Later than 4th round WR
1c. Put another way, WR+ST+WR WR+WR+WR
1d. Put another way, #1 WR+ #7WR + #2 WR #1 WR + #2 WR + #2 WR
1e. Put another way, $$$$+¢¢¢+$$$ $$$$+$$$+$$$
And just so you know, if our fictitious teams played each other you'd lose something like 24-14, because my OL would road-grade your depleted DL (because you've spent 1/3 your salary cap on WRs), and your arsenal of tall WRs would barely be on the field because we'd control the TOP by an ample margin. And when your WRs were on the field, they'd see the ball infrequently because Webb is still protecting your QB's blindside, the interior OL would still be weak, your QB would be back-peddaling by the 3rd quarter, and he there's a decent chance he wouldn't be in the game in the 4th quarter because the weak OL and weakened running game (because you invested so much on WRs) would not keep the defense honest.
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BUMP
More Cutler-the-GM tweets from today.
He also went on to say that we shouldn't believe everything we hear via the media, in response to someone telling him that the media has been saying his relationship with Bates is "overstated."
He also mentioned wanting (his good friend, I may add) Tony Scheffler back.
Lastly, he retweeted this: Im lovin this talk of a reunion between @JayCutler6 @BMarshall19 & @T_Scheff85. As Bart Scott said, CANT WAIT!!!
No brainer RT @KRock_19: @Shields3L Just read Bears could potentially trade their 3rd round picks for @BMarshall19 ....opinion?This was posted on JANUARY 13TH!!! Holy hell, what source does this Shields3L guy have?
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...story?track=rss
Chicago Bears GM Phil Emery said today that finding some fresh bodies along the offensive line, whether it be in free agency or the draft, is one of his priorities this offseason.
“I like the look of our offensive line with the guys with have signed up right now,” he said.
Asked about adding a lineman, Emery said the Bears always are searching for depth. He said they could look at other free-agent linemen, and the team will look “very hard” at offensive linemen in the draft.
The quote: What he had to say to the media.
The comment about the draft: The truth, hopefully.
The two comments are obviously contradictory, so we can only hope he's not just blowing smoke and he actually intends to put serious emphasis on the OL.
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Case not closed if you read what they wrote they said (Ashkum and Parker) that they would take another wr in the draft. They said maybe not in RD 1 but they would maybe draft another WR in different rounds....so its not stupid.Remember we have and older defense(still good with all the starters coming back) and the only thing keep this team from being great is the offense. We have stocked the QB position trying with the RB position (looking at Bush) working on the defense some...and the boss said he is going to fill the needs of linemen in the draft and maybe another WR. So do you see where this teams is going? I do we are going to be a shootout team like the Packers and Saints.....but with a better defense. If we scored like the Packers and Saints we would have been in the SuperBowl
ASHKUM said this
If the Bears sign Royal, which I wouldn't hate, then I don't see them drafting a WR unless its after RD4. I think we need to find one in the draft and develop, like Hill, Marvin Jones, or Justin Criner. We are all ready to demote Hester to ST's only, but I think he will still play quite a bit as the #3 lined up in the slot. With Hester coming out of the slot, he will see he can get seperation and exploit LB's and S's with his speed.
Parker said this
The best way Emery can smartly / efficiently upgrade this team is through the draft and with a few stop gap FA to fill out the roster (CB, DE etc). I know, it is not sexy but a GM needs to have roster integrity and that is why I personally would like a minimum of three linemen drafted in the first 4 rounds (2 OL and a DE) with CB, LB and WR as later considerations based on best player available. I also would not at all mind a trade down at 19, if one of the TOP LT / DE is not there and than maybe select the top Centers and Guards in back to back picks then focus on our other areas of need / depth. This team can not afford any more reaches in the top 3 rounds! I like Hill but not in the First. Think TEBOW in the first, STUPID!!!
Dude, are you not reading the actual messages in their entirety? Are you just glaring over everything that doesn't jibe with your thougts? Seriously, reread the entire thread and actually grasp what is being discussed. I've highlighted the key point of each of the above comments for you. But feel free to read everything from beginning to end again.
Parker, Ashkum, az, and I all said either a FA like Royal, or a high draft pick, makes sense. But not both. Nobody is arguining against another FA and a late round WR prospect.
What you are saying: OMG BOTH! This doesn't make sense for a team that actually wants to have pro-level starters at every position.
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Would you be willing to endure 2 seasons of 4 and 6 wins in the next 3 years in order to draft highly, give playing time to kids, and let them develop? Willing to let the careers of Urlacher, Peppers, and Tillman just end in order to really give an offense time to grow up together?
The strategy is one I don't have a problem with. The timing of it, however, would be bad right now for the reasons you have listed. You just don't throw away the back end of the careers of all-stars, and two future HOFers, for a rebuilding project, when you're only a piece or two away from going back to the big dance and competing for the championship. Before Cutler's injury last year they were 7-2, yet had glaring needs on the OL and at WR. The latter has been addressed. If the OL gets addressed, then the rebuilding project is unwise, because this team can compete with anyone.
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When az, Parker, and Ashkum all agree with me, then I know it's a rock solid case I'm arguing.
Another mid/top tier FA WR + Draft early round WR = Stupid.
Case closed.
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And they took those opportunities to stock up with talent.
Where is the talent and depth the Bears stockpiled from being mediocre?
This is the reason JA is gone and emery is here.
Which is precisely why I hate Lovie and his "we should win those meaningless games at the end of the year" because it builds (whatever). This has happened more than one time on his watch. It's tough to pull off the GB strategy being mentioned in this thread when Lovie is so good at coaching a team teams towards mediocrity.
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Exactly, the goal needs to be getting to a place where we can take BPA and let them ease into the starting gig.
I agree, but that's the ideal situation. The Bears are not in the ideal situation. When you have glaring holes, you have to address glaring holes. If it's between BPA and the #4 or #5 guy in terms of BPA, but that #4/5 guy is at your position of glaring need, you go with the #4/5 guy.
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The reason you cant convince me is because I have seen it work time and time again. I didnt say we need to get Royal but say if we had gotten him instead of Weems. Either way we have 6 WR on the team and I would rather have a bigger, faster WR like Floyd/Hill rather than sanzenbacher or Komar. We need that to take pressure off of Marshall
I think you've seen a team have lots of WRs who are good, but you've ignored various other parts of the team that also help the team be good and maximize the opportunities for the WRs to be good. Weems doesn't even factor into the discussion.
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If that means Devin Hester gets to go back to being a full time special teams player, then that is fantastic. Could not care less if he got another snap as a WR. Royal and a high draft pick are clear upgrades over him.
And if that's your opinion, it's valid. I happen to disagree, and I'm pretty sure management disagrees considering his salary (7.5M+ cap hit this year), but it's understandable.
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We are looking at Hawthorne from the Seahawks just for that reason
What if Briggs gets hurt?!
What if Tillman gets hurt?!
What if Peppers gets hurt?!
We better get a backup for each of those guys who is just about as good and could start on other teams.
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Really? How much money do you think Eddie Royal is going to get? The Bears came into this offseason needing a minimum of 2 WR's. So far they've only got one and I'm not counting Weems as a receiver because he's not any good. He's strictly a special teamer. You can't count on Knox being there for the season and to be a productive player even if he does. Completely healthy he was only an average WR with some serious flaws. Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall have true chemistry with Cutler. If you were able to add him to go along with a young draft pick in one of the 1st 2 rounds of the draft, you have done everything you needed to do to solidify your greatest weakness. Not to mention, we are going to need a security blanket in case Marshall ends up being suspended for 4-8 games or so.
No problem with Royal.
No problem with a high draft pick WR.
Big problem with getting both. That's where it doesn't make sense. That means one WR gets lost in the wash.
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I like Davis and feel he has been short changed do to the offensive systems run, I think he will be utilized much more this year with Tice as OC and might just be a heck of a lot better than many realize.
I agree. I love this signing. It's minimal and it allows for improvement from a player with potential. It also doesn't cost a lot since the Bears still need to spend elsewhere.
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The Bears are in a position where their WR corps is deep enough that a "Work in progress" WR wouldn't be a bad play if it was a good value pick in the late first or 2nd round. You can put the guy on the bench for most of the first year and let him develop/learn the playbook.
:blink: Did you really just say that?
With the various needs the Bears have with starters, you want to take a high draft pick and have him sit for the year?
First round draft picks should be guys that we're ready to plug into the line on Day 1.
Second round draft pikcs should be pretty damn close to ready to start on Day 1.
Sitting a 1st/2nd round guy the entire year is an incredible mismanagement of personnel.
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Ok good now comes the question of what if....Marshall gets hurt who do you have to replace him for Cutler? Thats why we still need another WR like Floyd/Hill. And Knox might not even play this year....he is still trying to walk right.
What if Urlacher gets hurt? We better draft a MLB in the first round!
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Wesson you have been all over the place with this!! In this 4 WR set you mention where is the TE you say should handle the middle and Matt Forte? If a team plays a nickel or dime package there won't be many LBs on the field.The mismatch would have to come against a safety, dime or nickel.
BTW what team has 3 6-4 WRs?
Tag, you're it. You can try to convince him it's a horrible idea to go out and get Royal and THEN still get a first round WR. One? Sure. Both. Stupid.
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Actually its not stupid......if they had signed Royal instead of Weems that would give us Knox, Hester, Bennett, Royal, Marshall and the other draft pick Floyd/Hill. Giving us a good WR group to match us with the Packers group of Driver, Jones, Jennings, Nelson, Gurley and Cobb
Sorry. It's still stupid. The Bears' WRs don't directly match up against the Packers' WRs. Their offenses are different. It's just a pointless comparison.
#1-Marshall
#2-#6: Bennett, Knox, Hester, Floyd/Hill, Royal
That leaves you with a situation where either Marshall doesn't get the touches a #1 should get, or Royal/Bennett/Knox/Hester don't get the touches they need to develop further, or Bennett doesn't get the touches needed for a guy with such great chemistry with the QB, or Knox/Hester/Royal don't get the touches ideal for such explosive players, or a rookie 2st round WR doesn't get the touches required to develop and live up to his draft status.
The Bears can't throw the ball to those 6 WRs and maximize their potential. Much less satisfy the players. Unless, of course, you want to never throw to the RB, never throw to the TE, and minimize at least two of the WRs on roster. The ONLY way what you're saying makes sense is if the Bears know Knox is done, and they are completely done with the idea of Hester as a WR. The former we don't know yet, and the latter is obviously not accurate. They will not push Hester to the #5/#6 WR. He is at least the #4. Period. Similarly, they won't spend a first rounder on a WR and push him down the depth chart. That's just straight up stupid. So, please, who in your magical scenario gets dumped down the depth chart? Let's assume Knox is gone (we don't really know), that leaves you with your 5 guys of Hester, Bennett, Royal, Marshall, and Floyd/Hill; what's the depth chart?
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It's actually possible that the Bears want to take a WR highly in the draft and actually have playing time for him in order to develop someone along with Cutler...and if they actually want to develop a player, then Royal would honestly be in the way.
Exactly. They have BM. Now if they still feel it's a need, the situation should be either one more FA, OR a draft pick. Both is stupid. For various reasons.
why are we not looking at this guy?
in Bearstalk
Posted
Fixed that for you. There is only one reason the Bears have put so much faith in Webb, and it points directly at Tice's reputation being bruised if his hand-picked guy doesn't turn out. That hubris should be set aside for the betterment of the team, and for Cutler's health.