BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 23 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said: I've always been straight with you. If YOU remember, I told you Grizz was a master of debate. So, if you are that sensitive or think that things are about you, when in fact not, I truly don't know what to say. all that needs to be said is that if we all just treat each other with respect going forward, we wont have any issues. That should be easy enough to do. We dont have to hash this one out, we can just move past it. I am happy to shake your hand, or anyone here with the one obvious exception, and it aint Grizz I'll add this, ever since my fight to end years of crap from one individual, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of negative stuff on here. I knew that would happen of course, but it was preferable to being submissive and taking it, no matter how polite I had tried to be. Im not trying to bring it up again, but to talk about the pushback on me since then. I get it pretty much daily from a lot of different sides, and it's no fun. In finally smacking my bully in the mouth, I got a reputation as a jerk. And Ive had to live with the reaction, and be tough. So if i am on the defense, that's why. I freely criticize peoples logic, stats and facts. I could call an argument dumb. But i dont call peoples opinions dumb, we are all entitled to them, and thats what sports debate is all about. I'd like to get back to debating the Bears, and Id VERY much like for people not to have such a negative view of me. But there inst much i can do about it. I will just say, that i am a very nice guy in real life. Anyone that knows me would say it. And Im a natural leader in most social groups Im in. On occasion (in the real world not here) someone will be jealous, and if they attack me by whatever means, I generally defeat them. Usually thats some kind of social attack, or lies or whatever. Im very nice, but Im no ones b*tch. Since this is a football board, I suspect there are a lot of people like that here. Former players, men who are leaders and alpha types. I dont think any of you would have accepted what I finally stopped being polite about and set straight a couple months ago. But I hope we would each respect eachother for standing up for ourselves too. I dont consider myself better than anyone here, or above anyone. Like a team full of alphas, everyone is legit. So hopefully, we can ALL drop the hostility, and judgement, and I can stop feeling defensive, and we can all just have a good time here. I hope that helps explain where Im at, and how its been for me since I smacked my bully back. Thanks for reading this far to anyone that did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said: We dont have to hash this one out, we can just move past it. Nobody needs to hash anything out. We're all brothers here. Y'all are my Dawgs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 49 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said: Nobody needs to hash anything out. We're all brothers here. Y'all are my Dawgs... thank you! I appreciate that more than you might imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said: thank you! I appreciate that more than you might imagine. Sentiment echoed...🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29 Author Report Share Posted January 29 7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: they didnt play as hard as either of the two teams that are playing today did, during our regular season is what I said, followed by a disclaimer that of course this is the playoffs. You need to read the whole sentences to understand what I mean. It's as if i said "I don't like spaghetti when it falls on the floor and stains the rug, but it is a good low cost easy to make weekday meal" and all you hear is "I dont like spaghetti" so if you want to understand me, or debate what Im saying, you kind of have to read what Im saying and all the context too before you cherry pick sentences out of context to create the illusion of something I never meant. Are you saying they players on most other NFL teams this year didnt play as hard as our defense did? Cuz if youre not saying that, then Flus didnt accomplish anything in that realm. And I think players on a lot of teams played hard for their coaches. What did Eberflus do that was special? Not good, but special? Like top 5 coach special? Because if he isnt that, we should keep looking for someone who is. Think Harbaugh is gonna be a better coach than Eberflus? I do. There's a lot more energy in playoff games, so you will notice another level of effort. Not sure why you even bother mentioning it because it doesn't pertain to anything. If we made the playoffs then you could compare. I don't understand your comment about other teams playing hard, you are always trying to make a comment mean more than it does. I think the team played hard every game, not sure how that says anything other than that. You keep trying to burn Flus down all the time, I get you don't like him but he is going to be our coach next year and nothing is going to change that. It's a mute point, see how he performs and then you have some substance in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29 Author Report Share Posted January 29 7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: not because of who I am a fan of. Just because we are ALL gonna be pissed at the end of next season if they do that. And getting to say "I told you so" is not going to be anywhere near worth the chance and time we squandered and the team we could have become. Im not for or against people on the team. Thats what you keep misunderstanding. I dont hate Justin Fields. I WANTED him to be awesome. But I am a fan of the team, not individual players, and I want the TEAM to win. So when players or coaches show me they are not great, even if theyre OK, I want them to be replaced by new players and coaches who are great. I'm not willing to sacrifice the team and season(s) just to be fair to a player or coach. They are employees, not customers. I'm not sure just giving your opinion is sacrificing anything . What happens if they play well and make the playoffs? I'm not guaranteeing anything but I thing what ever way they go, they're going to a winning team. IF they do play well, im not going to say( I told you so,) I only care that they win, it's not about me being right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 8 minutes ago, Stinger226 said: I only care that they win, it's not about me being right or wrong. thats my point. but you missed it. I just want to win. But Justin isnt gonna get us there. So I really hope we dont keep him. Then we can win, and i cant prove that i was "right" that we wouldnt have won with him, because he wasnt here to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29 Author Report Share Posted January 29 39 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: thats my point. but you missed it. I just want to win. But Justin isnt gonna get us there. So I really hope we dont keep him. Then we can win, and i cant prove that i was "right" that we wouldnt have won with him, because he wasnt here to prove it. I already know you don't think Justin is getting better and wants change but you keep talking like it's not possible for that to happen. On the contrary, it can. Now if your comparison is always Mahomes, he's never going to be that but he can get better. Ceiling top 10? Purdy is going to the SB, and he's not a tier one QB so stuff like that does happen even if the odds are against it. If Poles trades him and he leads another team, you can still see his progress. If he fails we get to see that too. As much as I think he will succeed, I also accept he might fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29 Author Report Share Posted January 29 5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: all that needs to be said is that if we all just treat each other with respect going forward, we wont have any issues. That should be easy enough to do. We dont have to hash this one out, we can just move past it. I am happy to shake your hand, or anyone here with the one obvious exception, and it aint Grizz I'll add this, ever since my fight to end years of crap from one individual, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of negative stuff on here. I knew that would happen of course, but it was preferable to being submissive and taking it, no matter how polite I had tried to be. Im not trying to bring it up again, but to talk about the pushback on me since then. I get it pretty much daily from a lot of different sides, and it's no fun. In finally smacking my bully in the mouth, I got a reputation as a jerk. And Ive had to live with the reaction, and be tough. So if i am on the defense, that's why. I freely criticize peoples logic, stats and facts. I could call an argument dumb. But i dont call peoples opinions dumb, we are all entitled to them, and thats what sports debate is all about. I'd like to get back to debating the Bears, and Id VERY much like for people not to have such a negative view of me. But there inst much i can do about it. I will just say, that i am a very nice guy in real life. Anyone that knows me would say it. And Im a natural leader in most social groups Im in. On occasion (in the real world not here) someone will be jealous, and if they attack me by whatever means, I generally defeat them. Usually thats some kind of social attack, or lies or whatever. Im very nice, but Im no ones b*tch. Since this is a football board, I suspect there are a lot of people like that here. Former players, men who are leaders and alpha types. I dont think any of you would have accepted what I finally stopped being polite about and set straight a couple months ago. But I hope we would each respect eachother for standing up for ourselves too. I dont consider myself better than anyone here, or above anyone. Like a team full of alphas, everyone is legit. So hopefully, we can ALL drop the hostility, and judgement, and I can stop feeling defensive, and we can all just have a good time here. I hope that helps explain where Im at, and how its been for me since I smacked my bully back. Thanks for reading this far to anyone that did. You ever notice, you keep having conflict on here with other people even when I'm not involved. You keep referring to me in posts but I no longer give a shit about you baiting me anymore. We have had football related interaction and it's went fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 19 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: Curious if you still feel this way? I think Edmunds is fine, and still young enough to get better. However, I think Poles overpaid for him, which may not matter in the long run, but we don't know if there were other players not signed because of a couple of million. Edmunds started out slow and improved as the season wore on. I just thought his size in the middle would clog up more throwing lanes than it did. I guess I had Urlacher memories stuck in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29 Author Report Share Posted January 29 7 minutes ago, adam said: I think Edmunds is fine, and still young enough to get better. However, I think Poles overpaid for him, which may not matter in the long run, but we don't know if there were other players not signed because of a couple of million. Edmunds started out slow and improved as the season wore on. I just thought his size in the middle would clog up more throwing lanes than it did. I guess I had Urlacher memories stuck in there. As you stated, I think we expected an Urlacker type player of which he is not because of the money we have higher expectations. He is a good player 4 interceptions and 9 pass defenses is what we got him for. I think Poles wanted a bigger body when comparing him to Roquan Smith. We have an equal to Smith in TG Edwards by comparing stats, plus we got Stevenson with the draft pick in the trade. Overall we have a better situation in choosing Edmunds over Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 15 minutes ago, Stinger226 said: Overall we have a better situation in choosing Edmunds over Smith. If I remember right they essentially paid for Edmunds and Edwards what Baltimore did for Smith. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, adam said: I think Edmunds is fine, and still young enough to get better. However, I think Poles overpaid for him, which may not matter in the long run, but we don't know if there were other players not signed because of a couple of million. Edmunds started out slow and improved as the season wore on. I just thought his size in the middle would clog up more throwing lanes than it did. I guess I had Urlacher memories stuck in there. its because Eberflus isnt using him the way Lovie used Urlacher. The difference between the cover 2 Eberflus runs and the Tampa 2 Lovie ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: If I remember right they essentially paid for Edmunds and Edwards what Baltimore did for Smith. 🤔 Basically, but most of that was to Edmunds. Edwards really equals it out. Btw, they need to extend Edwards now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: its because Eberflus isnt using him the way Lovie used Urlacher. The difference between the cover 2 Eberflus runs and the Tampa 2 Lovie ran. Good point. His slow start really didn't help because it made those first 4 games even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 Edmunds value to this defense may not be easily apparent. The Cover 2 system (not just the coverage type, but the gap assignments) tend to funnel all the tackles to the WLB, in this case Edwards. As Edmunds makes good reads and fills his gap, the runners bounce outside where Edwards cleans them up, and was a top tackler in the league. The same thing happened on running plays with Urlacher funneling to Briggs. The difference is on pass plays in the Tampa 2, Urlacher got major depth. He was able to use his speed and length to shut down the deep middle seam, which is one of the three places where you attack a Cover 2. The others being on the sides past the press corner, and in front of, or if you can beat them, behind the safety. Eberflus doesnt use Edmunds that way. I truly think Poles thought that was how Edmunds would be used when he praised his length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: Eberflus doesnt use Edmunds that way. I truly think Poles thought that was how Edmunds would be used when he praised his length. Agree. I wonder if because Urlacher being a converted Safety made any difference in his pass coverage than say does Edmunds? The most (INTs) that Urlacher ever got was 5 in one season. Edmunds' only other season where he had multiple INTs was his rookie season (2) before getting 4 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 43 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: Agree. I wonder if because Urlacher being a converted Safety made any difference in his pass coverage than say does Edmunds? The most (INTs) that Urlacher ever got was 5 in one season. Edmunds' only other season where he had multiple INTs was his rookie season (2) before getting 4 this year. yeah and its funny, one of the knocks on Edmunds was that he didnt make INTs. For me, if a LB can take away the deep middle and knock passes down, that's good enough. I mean, I love INTs, but if he can do the Urlacher thing, that's valuable too. And then here he comes getting 4 this year. And he's only 25. Like Kmet, I think Edmunds best play is still ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said: And then here he comes getting 4 this year. And he's only 25. Like Kmet, I think Edmunds best play is still ahead of him. Agreed. He was also injured a good portion of the season. That may have affected how Flus used him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: yeah and its funny, one of the knocks on Edmunds was that he didnt make INTs. For me, if a LB can take away the deep middle and knock passes down, that's good enough. I mean, I love INTs, but if he can do the Urlacher thing, that's valuable too. And then here he comes getting 4 this year. And he's only 25. Like Kmet, I think Edmunds best play is still ahead of him. I was going off the full year assessment so I didn't have recency bias because he did end the year strong, same with Stevenson. However, the first quarter of the season was pretty bad. If he continues to play at or above the level he did in the last half, then we are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Just now, adam said: I was going off the full year assessment so I didn't have recency bias because he did end the year strong, same with Stevenson. However, the first quarter of the season was pretty bad. If he continues to play at or above the level he did in the last half, then we are good to go. for sure. plus there was no pass rush the first half of the season, and Stevenson was a rookie! There is every reason to believe that this defense will be excellent next year, and if you add more on the DL and a new FS, we could be special. And we still need to complement that with an offense that can score points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Here's a thought. Maybe Poles felt he needed to keep Eberflus so he doesn't lose the locker room when he moves on from Fields. Maybe he needs Flus to sell it to the players. Maybe making both the right moves (in my opinion); firing Eberflus and moving on from Fields, would each be dangerous from a morale point of view and doing both at once was too dangerous. If he knew he had to move on from Fields, and didnt want to blow everything up, then maybe he felt it wise to keep Eberflus. Maybe Eberflus will work out with all these assistants around him. It does seem like a hell of a staff. If everyone finds a niche. But if Flus is forcing everyone else to be too safe, and making dumb situational errors as HC, Poles could fire him next year, and move Waldron to HC and everyone up a rung on offense. That'd be one way to handle the change without losing momentum with a rookie QB going into his second year? Layers on layers of intrigue and options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 26 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: Here's a thought. Maybe Poles felt he needed to keep Eberflus so he doesn't lose the locker room when he moves on from Fields. Maybe he needs Flus to sell it to the players. Maybe making both the right moves (in my opinion); firing Eberflus and moving on from Fields, would each be dangerous from a morale point of view and doing both at once was too dangerous. Maybe if Eberflus keeps making situational errors as HC, Poles will fire him next year, and move Waldron to HC and everyone up a rung on offense. That'd be one way to handle the change without losing momentum with a rookie QB going into his second year? Layers on layers of intrigue and options. If they don't get a decent offer for Fields, keep him. They own him for a year. Would a second do it? Maybe, but competition will show what he is capable of. If he elevates his play, then his trade value increases or you have a top dradted QB also in hand to keep or deal. I have played HS ball playing G, and when I sprained an ankle was told I might be replaced, It elevated my desire to play, regardless of my body. I finished 2nd all area, which in my area Kankakee has had good college and a few pros make it. My size being 5'7 killed my dream, but if they ever let me run the ball, I'd have made it to college. I was as fast as our fastest but a bowling ball w vision. Giving Fields no competition has killed him and giving Caleb or whomever will do the same. Make them earn it is all some want. We see all the failures of our QBs and to hand it to a rookie will produce the same result unless there is a reward to get the job and keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 14 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: If they don't get a decent offer for Fields, keep him. They own him for a year. Would a second do it? Maybe, but competition will show what he is capable of. If he elevates his play, then his trade value increases or you have a top dradted QB also in hand to keep or deal. I have played HS ball playing G, and when I sprained an ankle was told I might be replaced, It elevated my desire to play, regardless of my body. I finished 2nd all area, which in my area Kankakee has had good college and a few pros make it. My size being 5'7 killed my dream, but if they ever let me run the ball, I'd have made it to college. I was as fast as our fastest but a bowling ball w vision. Giving Fields no competition has killed him and giving Caleb or whomever will do the same. Make them earn it is all some want. We see all the failures of our QBs and to hand it to a rookie will produce the same result unless there is a reward to get the job and keep it. competition definitely makes players reach down deep. and if we take a rookie, we wont want to throw him out there on day one anyway. so there is an argument for having Fields play the role of the veteran who is keeping the seat warm with the rookie waiting to eventually take over. And youd get the added benefit of giving Fields one more chance to blow us all away, so I see the argument for it. Ive been trying to word a lot of my conclusions to say "Poles better draft a hi pick franchise QB type" rather than "Poles better dump Fields" to allow for this exact scenario. The down side is though that you want your rookie to be learning good habits, and learn from the mentoring of the placeholder vet ahead of him, and with Justin, it could get messy. Also, there is the issue of the offensive scheme. If you want to throw Justin into a regular offensive scheme, it's fine with me. The fans will be chanting for the rookie by week 5. But if you really wanted to give Justin the best chance to be successful, youd have to design a running, improvising friendly offense, and then you'd be putting your rookie into that too. If it's Caleb, it might work with him too, but I think it would go against the coaching Caleb is gonna need to dial into a more structured NFL typeoffense. And if it's Maye or McCarthy or something, then you just cant have two totally different offenses being installed at once. I hope we get a 2nd rounder for Justin just so we dont have to weigh that kind of thing out. I wouldnt mind Bagent being that guy for 4 or 5 games until the rookie was ready. Gives him a shot to show what he can do in the new offense too. Hopefully he will have increased his arm strength in the gym too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 6 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: I wouldnt mind Bagent being that guy for 4 or 5 games until the rookie was ready. Gives him a shot to show what he can do in the new offense too. Hopefully he will have increased his arm strength in the gym too. draft the future franchise qb. then... use baggette as you say or if he turns out looking like i THINK he could you then have a good+ qb in bagette and then can make the decision to either keep him and trade the draft pick or trade baggette for some really nice draft picks. this is how the packer org. operated. think of the qb's they drafted and traded for good draft picks or premium players all the while favre was in the fold. you then got something out of fields, a franchise prospect and a possible good+ qb in bagette. if you keep fields for that purpose you will REALLY divide the locker room and fans and make it much harder for transition of your new qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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