Undrafted Free Agent Signings

[AZ54]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

sure, but the other (possible) side of the coin is some BS touchdowns that change the outcome of games, where the better team is edged out by a fluke kickoff.

How is a team “better” if they can’t cover kick or even punt returns?

[adam]

12 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I think Scott will surprise us in a good way this year. 

How so? He seems like the 7th option on offense right now behind Moore, Allen, Odunze, Kmet, Everett, and Swift.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

How is a team “better” if they can’t cover kick or even punt returns?

because if they play superior offense and defense, but a chaotic play like a kickoff determines the outcome with an effect out of proportion to the rest of the game, then there is more chaos in the outcome and it measures the quality of the teams less.

I always felt the same about surprise onside kickoffs too.

Punts and kickoffs as they were, are fine, they didnt disproportionately affect game outcomes. i wonder (but do NOT know!) whether this new arrangement will end in more kickoff returns for touchdowns than the previous form did, and if it does, then I think it corrupts the game.

[AZ54]

53 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

because if they play superior offense and defense, but a chaotic play like a kickoff determines the outcome with an effect out of proportion to the rest of the game, then there is more chaos in the outcome and it measures the quality of the teams less.

I always felt the same about surprise onside kickoffs too.

Punts and kickoffs as they were, are fine, they didnt disproportionately affect game outcomes. i wonder (but do NOT know!) whether this new arrangement will end in more kickoff returns for touchdowns than the previous form did, and if it does, then I think it corrupts the game.

Almost by definition there will be significantly more KR and therefore more KR TDs.  It will affect the outcome of games just as Hester did for us.   I like it because I'd rather not see the league beholden to the teams with the best QBs.   Keep it a team sport in all phases.  Poles thought enough of special teams to use a 4th Rd pick on a punter.   I still enjoy watching the kicks and kick returns precisely because of that unknown factor... be it a fumble, muffed punt, big return to flip the field, etc.  

[BearFan PHX]

17 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Almost by definition there will be significantly more KR and therefore more KR TDs.  It will affect the outcome of games just as Hester did for us.   I like it because I'd rather not see the league beholden to the teams with the best QBs.   Keep it a team sport in all phases.  Poles thought enough of special teams to use a 4th Rd pick on a punter.   I still enjoy watching the kicks and kick returns precisely because of that unknown factor... be it a fumble, muffed punt, big return to flip the field, etc.  

I totally disagree. Especially now that we are becoming one of the good teams who can win games without flukes and chaos.

[ChileBear]

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I totally disagree. Especially now that we are becoming one of the good teams who can win games without flukes and chaos.

And I totally disagree with the idea of "games without flukes and chaos." Those are integral parts of almost every game. Heck, the ball's shape implies crazy bounces and unexpected events. I actually love that part of football.

[Stinger226]

33 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Almost by definition there will be significantly more KR and therefore more KR TDs.  It will affect the outcome of games just as Hester did for us.   I like it because I'd rather not see the league beholden to the teams with the best QBs.   Keep it a team sport in all phases.  Poles thought enough of special teams to use a 4th Rd pick on a punter.   I still enjoy watching the kicks and kick returns precisely because of that unknown factor... be it a fumble, muffed punt, big return to flip the field, etc.  

Good teams always seem to have a good punter , most the time a kicker that can make pressure FGs. Since the rules have changed, special teams will require better players to play because of potential big plays. I think Poles and Flus are paying attention to that. V Jones will excel at that or be gone, not any help as a WR. Dante Pettis is back and a unspetacular but reliable punt returner that adds speed to the WR room. 4.32 He had 9 punt return TDs in his college career. Maybe we can revive his career. 

[adam]

8 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Good teams always seem to have a good punter , most the time a kicker that can make pressure FGs. Since the rules have changed, special teams will require better players to play because of potential big plays. I think Poles and Flus are paying attention to that. V Jones will excel at that or be gone, not any help as a WR. Dante Pettis is back and a unspetacular but reliable punt returner that adds speed to the WR room. 4.32 He had 9 punt return TDs in his college career. Maybe we can revive his career. 

1 net yard on punts adds almost 2 pts per game, so there is correlation between field position and outcomes. 

Gill was terrible and was a bottom 3 player on the 53-man roster. It sucks they had to use a 4th to get him, but they got Booker in the 5th which sort of makes up for the reach on Taylor. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, ChileBear said:

And I totally disagree with the idea of "games without flukes and chaos." Those are integral parts of almost every game. Heck, the ball's shape implies crazy bounces and unexpected events. I actually love that part of football.

There is no such thing as a game without flukes and chaos - I think you misunderstood me. What Im saying is that I am not in favor of changing rules to create more chaos and flukes so that the chance of the inferior team winning increases from where its already been.

[ChileBear]

10 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

There is no such thing as a game without flukes and chaos - I think you misunderstood me. What Im saying is that I am not in favor of changing rules to create more chaos and flukes so that the chance of the inferior team winning increases from where its already been.

Got it. But does the rule create flukes and chaos? I don't know anything about the new rule, so I'm asking.

 

[Pixote]

I don't want to watch a flag football game, a game without chaos. Everything scripted and predictable.

I want on side kicks, announced and unannounced. The Statue of Liberty, the flea flicker, the end around, a double reverse, a returner like Hester electrifying the crowd, I want the unexpected because football is supposed to be chaotic by its very nature. 99% of the game is controlled chaos. The 1% of the plays that make the highlight reels, the unexpected chaos, is the cherry on top of the sundae.

The new KO rules will bring the KO returns back into the game. We will no longer have to watch the ball bounce out of the end zone for a touchback. Can you imagine how we would have been deprived of the fun we had watching Hester return KOs? If he had played after the NFL screwed up the KO rules, he would have been a so-so WR and probably cut from the team. He wouldn't be inducted into the HOF. We wouldn't have the fond memories. He created chaos. We loved it.

[BearFan PHX]

31 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Got it. But does the rule create flukes and chaos? I don't know anything about the new rule, so I'm asking.

 

yeah I dont know either. Im saying I HOPE the new rule doesnt overshadow the rest of the game with easy points scored.

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I don't want to watch a flag football game, a game without chaos. Everything scripted and predictable.

I want on side kicks, announced and unannounced. The Statue of Liberty, the flea flicker, the end around, a double reverse, a returner like Hester electrifying the crowd, I want the unexpected because football is supposed to be chaotic by its very nature. 99% of the game is controlled chaos. The 1% of the plays that make the highlight reels, the unexpected chaos, is the cherry on top of the sundae.

The new KO rules will bring the KO returns back into the game. We will no longer have to watch the ball bounce out of the end zone for a touchback. Can you imagine how we would have been deprived of the fun we had watching Hester return KOs? If he had played after the NFL screwed up the KO rules, he would have been a so-so WR and probably cut from the team. He wouldn't be inducted into the HOF. We wouldn't have the fond memories. He created chaos. We loved it.

when the chaos is the result of a dominant player or performance, that would be great, but when it's just an unstable situation awarding unearned points, thats a problem to me.

For example, would we like it if every sunday at 3pm, a lottery was held in NFL headquarters and the winning team got a free 14 points?

So great kick returners are fantastic, but kick return rules that (maybe?) facilitate lucky touchdowns that come not from skill but just an unstable rule, then i think that corrupts the game.

I love trick plays - the defense has to watch for everything - but if the new kickoff rule hampers the coverage teams, then Im not for it.

[Pixote]

6 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

For example, would we like it if every sunday at 3pm, a lottery was held in NFL headquarters and the winning team got a free 14 points?

Is that a serious question?

All the NFL is trying to do is to return the excitement of the KO return to the game in a fashion that will still reduce injuries from high impact tackles. Simple as that.

Special teams play has been a part of the game since 1869 when the first college football game took place. Good teams excel in all three phases of the game, Defense, Offense, and Special Teams.

A TD scored on a KO return, Punt return, trick play, etc... is earned through out executing the opponent. The key word is "earned." If they win because they out maneuvered the opposition, they earned the victory. No one gave it to them.

 

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Is that a serious question?

All the NFL is trying to do is to return the excitement of the KO return to the game in a fashion that will still reduce injuries from high impact tackles. Simple as that.

Special teams play has been a part of the game since 1869 when the first college football game took place. Good teams excel in all three phases of the game, Defense, Offense, and Special Teams.

A TD scored on a KO return, Punt return, trick play, etc... is earned through out executing the opponent. The key word is "earned." If they win because they out maneuvered the opposition, they earned the victory. No one gave it to them.

 

Yeah, Im saying that if the result of the new rule is similar to how kickoff returns used to be then fine, but *IF* it turns out to enable a lot of cheap TDs *THEN* I will be against it.

For example if we had the old kickoff rule, but just moved the kick point back to the 20, and made the coverage team only be able to walk, then returners could "earn" TDs but it would ruin the game, and make that play too important in determining outcomes.

I am not predicting this will be the outcome, Im just HOPING it wont be.

[Stinger226]

17 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yeah, Im saying that if the result of the new rule is similar to how kickoff returns used to be then fine, but *IF* it turns out to enable a lot of cheap TDs *THEN* I will be against it.

For example if we had the old kickoff rule, but just moved the kick point back to the 20, and made the coverage team only be able to walk, then returners could "earn" TDs but it would ruin the game, and make that play too important in determining outcomes.

I am not predicting this will be the outcome, Im just HOPING it wont be.

It may start with a lot of success but then teams will adapt to it. I think it could help our team because of the speed options. I think the rules changes affecting defenses so offensivbe teams run wild is the joke, they take good football players out of the game because they are agressive. Dont like that.