If they fire him tomorrow, we will win our next game.  Book it!

Even if Poles wants to let it play out, I bet he gets pressure from upstairs.

On 11/14/2024 at 7:56 AM, BearFan PHX said:

we dont need a #1 pick overall this year, we have a QB. I mean dont get me wrong, the "haul" would be fantastic again, but Id rather see us win some games and see Caleb developing than to have a higher pick.

Another thing to consider is that if we got a top 4 pick, we'd almost have to use it on a pass rusher, whereas a #8 pick or something would go to OL. There are trade down scenarios too, but QBs and Edge rushers are worth their weight in gold.

1000% disagree. Absolutely all resources need to be focused on OL. If there isn’t OL worthy of where they pick, then trade back for OL. Period. Full effing stop. 

The game today was disgraceful. Nearly every drop back the pocket went from capital C to lower case c in a second or less. No Qb consistently succeeds like that, let alone a rookie QB. What’s worse, it potentially ruins a rookie QB and makes him gun-shy. We know this from experience multiple times.

All eggs are in the Caleb Williams basket. Supporting him is the first, second, and third priority.

1 hour ago, jason said:

1000% disagree. Absolutely all resources need to be focused on OL. If there isn’t OL worthy of where they pick, then trade back for OL. Period. Full effing stop. 

The game today was disgraceful. Nearly every drop back the pocket went from capital C to lower case c in a second or less. No Qb consistently succeeds like that, let alone a rookie QB. What’s worse, it potentially ruins a rookie QB and makes him gun-shy. We know this from experience multiple times.

All eggs are in the Caleb Williams basket. Supporting him is the first, second, and third priority.

I agree - I expect they will use 2 of first 3 picks on oline and the other on dline. They also have cap space so can correct that with free agent money. And I also agree if you don’t like who is there at top of draft, move down and take a stud guard and than take a stud center. 

1 hour ago, jason said:

1000% disagree. Absolutely all resources need to be focused on OL. If there isn’t OL worthy of where they pick, then trade back for OL. Period. Full effing stop. 

The game today was disgraceful. Nearly every drop back the pocket went from capital C to lower case c in a second or less. No Qb consistently succeeds like that, let alone a rookie QB. What’s worse, it potentially ruins a rookie QB and makes him gun-shy. We know this from experience multiple times.

All eggs are in the Caleb Williams basket. Supporting him is the first, second, and third priority.

Rd1 pick 5 - Kevin Banks OLT Texas or Mason Graham DT Mich

I say get a future long term LT.  You have to put all eggs into protecting the franchise QB.  A havoc wrecking DT doesn't matter if your QB is on his back. 

Rd2a - DE/DT

Rd2b- OG/C - they need a G and C,best to double dip here and the 3rd

Rd3 - OG/C

Rd4 - S - depends on Brisker and Byard, but they will need to dip into FA again and draft one.

Rd5 and after - find diamonds - wr, te

1 hour ago, jason said:

1000% disagree. Absolutely all resources need to be focused on OL. If there isn’t OL worthy of where they pick, then trade back for OL. Period. Full effing stop. 

The game today was disgraceful. Nearly every drop back the pocket went from capital C to lower case c in a second or less. No Qb consistently succeeds like that, let alone a rookie QB. What’s worse, it potentially ruins a rookie QB and makes him gun-shy. We know this from experience multiple times.

All eggs are in the Caleb Williams basket. Supporting him is the first, second, and third priority.

i totally agree. Im just saying, in general, if you have the #3 pick and theres a stud pass rusher there, it'd be hard to ignore, and that would be a problem because we need OL help.

If the OL talent isnt top 5, and you can trade back then great do it - we agree. But Im saying if we have pick #6, it's easy to take OL whereas if we have pick #3 there will be some voices in the room about edge rusher.

3 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

i totally agree. Im just saying, in general, if you have the #3 pick and theres a stud pass rusher there, it'd be hard to ignore, and that would be a problem because we need OL help.

If the OL talent isnt top 5, and you can trade back then great do it - we agree. But Im saying if we have pick #6, it's easy to take OL whereas if we have pick #3 there will be some voices in the room about edge rusher.

Any free agent stud olinemen? Cause I’m also fine using some cap space and a high pick. Could be fine with pass rushing stud with 1st pick, sign stud in free agency and draft two interior olinemen with either both 2nd rounders or one 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe draft one more dlinemen with the other pick. 
 

Bears should have cap space next year so can make one big free agent signing. 

I havent looked at any actual data, but in general, finding good young free agent OL is very rare. Teams hang on to them, for the obvious reason - and thats why we need them too, because we havent been building through the draft long enough yet.

3 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I havent looked at any actual data, but in general, finding good young free agent OL is very rare. Teams hang on to them, for the obvious reason - and thats why we need them too, because we havent been building through the draft long enough yet.

They have the keys to a Lamborghini, they need a secured garage to park that in, not a gravel driveway.  If they want a fancy 4WD truck (DE/DT) to park in the driveway with it, they deserve to watch that car ruin in short time.  

As mentioned, good oline do not hit FA. Build your brick and motor needs with long term draft cap. Once solid it's cheaper to upkeep. 

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

They have the keys to a Lamborghini, they need a secured garage to park that in, not a gravel driveway.  If they want a fancy 4WD truck (DE/DT) to park in the driveway with it, they deserve to watch that car ruin in short time.  

As mentioned, good oline do not hit FA. Build your brick and motor needs with long term draft cap. Once solid it's cheaper to upkeep. 

This is the general wisdom, for sure. There has to be a path to a decent OL if youre willing to spend the draft picks and cap space. i think we are, so I have hope (but no names yet) that we can do it.

The two main things we need, are the two things Poles has struck out on: head coach and offensive linemen.

16 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

This is the general wisdom, for sure. There has to be a path to a decent OL if youre willing to spend the draft picks and cap space. i think we are, so I have hope (but no names yet) that we can do it.

The two main things we need, are the two things Poles has struck out on: head coach and offensive linemen.

I  looked at oline prospects briefly tonight, they need Texas guys.  It's early in the process, but get these guys 1 and 2.

Kevin Banks OLT Texas

Jake Majors C Texas

or

Bryce Foster C Kansas - bruce feldman freak - my second choice for C. 

Get another stud G in rd 2 or 3.  

I would give Jenkins a 2 year extension. Buy time and keep a little continuity. 

Wright, Jenkins, Shelton/Majors, Rookie, Jones/Banks.

22 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I  looked at oline prospects briefly tonight, they need Texas guys.  It's early in the process, but get these guys 1 and 2.

Kevin Banks OLT Texas

Jake Majors C Texas

or

Bryce Foster C Kansas - bruce feldman freak - my second choice for C. 

Get another stud G in rd 2 or 3.  

I would give Jenkins a 2 year extension. Buy time and keep a little continuity. 

Wright, Jenkins, Shelton/Majors, Rookie, Jones/Banks.

I assume you meant Wright at RT and Banks at LT?

I'll definitely check out your names. it's good to have some idea some players worthy are available!

I dont think I can see extening Jenkins though. Hes a pretty good player, but hes injured too much to rely on.

Maybe Kiran A will be in the mix next year, and Ryan Bates at OG too?

We have 4 OL signed for next year, B Jones-Wright-Bates-Kiran A.  I think they resign Shelton and Pryor. Jenkins is a Wildcard, if he takes a tean friendly deal because of injury history, I think he brings him back . 

My opinion:  I have looked at college prospects and they're 6 OTs valued in first round, 2 will go in the top 10 of which we should be picking. Right now we have #9-#40-#41-#73. Poles will not reach for players so depending who drops to 9, DE or OT. With the first 4 picks 2-OT and 2-DL depending on vaue at time of the draft.

Whether you want to here it or not B Jones is a top half rated  T. 64 starting Ts, he is ranked in the top 25 overall. Wright is highly rated and will only get better. 

They're 2 top OL players on the market Trey Smith/KC and Dave Dalman/Atl. Sign one or both and align draft accordingly. With Bates and Shelton still in the picture, probably Trey Smith. 

I would draft a OT, make B Jones the swing T , Move Kiran A. to LG and compete with Jenkins coming back. A rookie C to compete with Shelton and Bates? The losers give us depth at all IOL after signing Trey Smith. Wright will end up a pro bowler one day. 

OL;  Rookie T

       B Jones

       Wright

       Shelton

       Bates

       Rookie IOL

      Trey Smith

      Jenkins

       Kiran A.

      Matt Pryor. 

There will be 2 high picks for the DL, Booker another yr of development. a healthy Billings and Sweat and I think they sign amother high paid FA.

14 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

If they fire him tomorrow, we will win our next game.  Book it!

I honestly would not be surprised if the win out after he is gone. He is that bad of a HC. 

11 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I assume you meant Wright at RT and Banks at LT?

I'll definitely check out your names. it's good to have some idea some players worthy are available!

I dont think I can see extening Jenkins though. Hes a pretty good player, but hes injured too much to rely on.

Maybe Kiran A will be in the mix next year, and Ryan Bates at OG too?

Flip the order I originally put.  I was naming them in order right to left not thinking how it looked on paper. 

Besides Jenkins big injury year, has he really missed as much time as the others? Shelton has been the only constant this year and the rest have missed games.

At this point Kiran has been a waste and he won't develop until next season if they even try to get him developed. I would draft OLT with the first.  Maybe try to trade Braxton Jones, if not let him walk after next season and Kiran can become a swing. 

B Jones/ Banks LT, rookie LG, Shelton/Majors C, Jenkins RG, Wright RT. 

 

Honestly right now I think with better and more consistent interior play Wright and Jones work. So if a stud LT is there grab him…otherwise focus on building a massive interior and if you do that I think Wright reaches his high potential and Jones plays up to being pretty good in that scenario. 

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Whether you want to here it or not B Jones is a top half rated  T. 64 starting Ts, he is ranked in the top 25 overall.

ranked by PFF, who gets linemen wrong all the time.

Braxton Jones has been incredible value for a 5th rounder. We rode him for several years. But whenever you need a sack, you can just bull rush him, and he loses every time.

I dont want him at LT next year. Not starting anyway.

4 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

ranked by PFF, who gets linemen wrong all the time.

Braxton Jones has been incredible value for a 5th rounder. We rode him for several years. But whenever you need a sack, you can just bull rush him, and he loses every time.

I dont want him at LT next year. Not starting anyway.

I think if they shore up the interior and make it a strength - than Jones plays up. He is a good, not great LT. Build a strong interior and Wright and Jones ends up a pretty good tackle combo (imo). 
 

This could allow you to go dline and than take 2 guards in 2nd round.

8 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I think if they shore up the interior and make it a strength - than Jones plays up. He is a good, not great LT. Build a strong interior and Wright and Jones ends up a pretty good tackle combo (imo). 
 

This could allow you to go dline and than take 2 guards in 2nd round.

We do need more than a couple players, so I get you, but Jones gets beaten ont he bull rush way too often. Its not a question of being beatn inside or outside, where putting a player to help will fix it, the D linemen just push him back into the pocket. He just doesnt have the strength or technique to compete with that and the NFL knows it now. THey all see it on film.

They save it for the right moment. This is why right at the end of the game suddenly Caleb is being sacked more. A lot of times that pressure comes over Jones in a bull rush.

34 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

ranked by PFF, who gets linemen wrong all the time.

Braxton Jones has been incredible value for a 5th rounder. We rode him for several years. But whenever you need a sack, you can just bull rush him, and he loses every time.

I dont want him at LT next year. Not starting anyway.

Im not the biggest PFF guy but it is a measuring stick to compare players. If you read the rest of the post I had us drafting a 1st pick OT, then have Jones as a swing T. He is not a problem for a cheap depth backup. Can a rookie T beat him out in his first yr or is Kiran A. a possibility?

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Honestly right now I think with better and more consistent interior play Wright and Jones work. So if a stud LT is there grab him…otherwise focus on building a massive interior and if you do that I think Wright reaches his high potential and Jones plays up to being pretty good in that scenario. 

Draft a OT and have Jones, rookie, and Kiran compete to start and it gives us good depth at the worse case scenario. Kiran was a 2nd round rated T coming off of an injury, and could end up being a good player. its  not russian roulette with every draft class. 

15 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

i totally agree. Im just saying, in general, if you have the #3 pick and theres a stud pass rusher there, it'd be hard to ignore, and that would be a problem because we need OL help.

If the OL talent isnt top 5, and you can trade back then great do it - we agree. But Im saying if we have pick #6, it's easy to take OL whereas if we have pick #3 there will be some voices in the room about edge rusher.

Don't give up on that edge rusher so easily.  All things being equal, we know we need LT and EDGE desperately.  It's been said many times, that a QB's best friend is a pass rush.  I would love to have a high first rounder to use on either. 

That being said, OL cannot be neglected anymore.  Pedigree means something with OL success rates.  Draft them high and often.  Dudes get hurt.  No more patch work journeymen. 

If I'm rebuilding the OL, I'm keeping Jones, Jenkins, Wright, Kiran, Shelton, Pryor and Bates.  I would draft the best LT in the draft.  Then, I would have Jones backup LT/LG.  Jones wouldn't be as susceptible to the bull rush inside, due to being able to engage quicker.  Jenkins stays put.  Shelton/Bates at center unless we sign or draft a stud.  Draft a bastard to play guard!  Wright stays put, with Kiran at backup to RT/RG.  A great scenario would be for Kiran to be a stud and have him bump Wright inside.  That would leave the stud OG to fight it out with Jenkins.  Fun times...

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Im not the biggest PFF guy but it is a measuring stick to compare players.

it is a broken measuring stick with NO informational value. PFF has been SO wrong over the years - especially on OL.

I agree with you about B Jones being a fine swing tackle for sure.

25 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Don't give up on that edge rusher so easily.  All things being equal, we know we need LT and EDGE desperately.  It's been said many times, that a QB's best friend is a pass rush.  I would love to have a high first rounder to use on either. 

That being said, OL cannot be neglected anymore.  Pedigree means something with OL success rates.  Draft them high and often.  Dudes get hurt.  No more patch work journeymen. 

If I'm rebuilding the OL, I'm keeping Jones, Jenkins, Wright, Kiran, Shelton, Pryor and Bates.  I would draft the best LT in the draft.  Then, I would have Jones backup LT/LG.  Jones wouldn't be as susceptible to the bull rush inside, due to being able to engage quicker.  Jenkins stays put.  Shelton/Bates at center unless we sign or draft a stud.  Draft a bastard to play guard!  Wright stays put, with Kiran at backup to RT/RG.  A great scenario would be for Kiran to be a stud and have him bump Wright inside.  That would leave the stud OG to fight it out with Jenkins.  Fun times...

Totally  it should be the plan. 

SOURCES: Bears interested in promising OC from Kansas City to fill HC vacancy. Has prior HC experience and has played a role in developing perennial MVP candidate Patrick Mahomes.

I thought this was kinda funny.