The myth of “12 pErSoNnEl”

[jason]

Where is Everyone who loved the Loveland pick?

Where is the 12 personnel? Is it even being run?

When it IS being run, is it even successful?

When it IS being run, what’s the percentage of time the first round TE is blocking?

Horrible pick at an unnecessary position. I know it’s early, but what a waste. He is underutilized, and so is the other good TE on the team. 

[adam]

32 minutes ago, jason said:

Where is Everyone who loved the Loveland pick?

Where is the 12 personnel? Is it even being run?

When it IS being run, is it even successful?

When it IS being run, what’s the percentage of time the first round TE is blocking?

Horrible pick at an unnecessary position. I know it’s early, but what a waste. He is underutilized, and so is the other good TE on the team. 

One of the worst parts of it was Loveland was injured and missed a good chunk of the offseason. So the Bears knowingly drafted him with the knowledge that they may not get full production out of him until mid season?

This goes back to Poles thinking he is the smartest guy in the room, similar to Pace. Then once he makes a bad out of position pick, it has a ripple effect for multiple years. Like Bowers + Egbuka instead of Odunze + Loveland is an example just using two position groups in back to back years. You can do it for more picks from the first year he drafted. 

So every year, the Bears fall further and further back against the top 12-15 teams in the league who at least draft average every year. The Bears are always in the bottom 3rd. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 minutes ago, jason said:

Where is Everyone who loved the Loveland pick?

Where is the 12 personnel? Is it even being run?

When it IS being run, is it even successful?

When it IS being run, what’s the percentage of time the first round TE is blocking?

Horrible pick at an unnecessary position. I know it’s early, but what a waste. He is underutilized, and so is the other good TE on the team. 

I thought Rome was a wasted pick last year, so not going to judge the pick.  Especially since Loveland missed so much time at the beginning. 

One thought, I wonder how much Caleb used TEs in college, because he hasn't thrown to them much since he's been a Bear.  

I am frustrated with this offense, but lets give them time to put it together.  Penalties, bad calls from refs, and poor special teams play has put the Bears in tough situations. Eventually it should come together...we hope 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, jason said:

Where is Everyone who loved the Loveland pick?

Where is the 12 personnel? Is it even being run?

When it IS being run, is it even successful?

When it IS being run, what’s the percentage of time the first round TE is blocking?

Horrible pick at an unnecessary position. I know it’s early, but what a waste. He is underutilized, and so is the other good TE on the team. 

I'm right here.  I wouldn't say I loved the Loveland pick but I did like it and I still do.   We used a lot of 12 personnel in the Ravens game, but I don't know snap counts.  I remember missing one TD early because the 3rd TE whiffed on a block at the goal line. 

When it is being run it is successful. 

I can't answer % blocking but I don't care because I like having a TE who can excel in run blocking, route running, and pass catching.   I like having a coach who knows how to use that too.   

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I think I with this past draft it comes down to best use of draft capital and the Bears just didn’t do it - period. 
 

With that said - I expect Loveland and Luther are both going to be good football players - they just weren’t the right picks or right positional value with the Bears. I do think both are very good prospects though at their position. 
 

Trapillo was solid value and I haven’t seen any reason to think he couldn’t become a good RT, but like the guys above, not right use of draft capital relative to roster. Bears literally took a guy top 10 at position 2 years earlier. So unless they plan on flipping Wright, it’s bad roster construction. 
 

Shemar looks like the worse pick in terms of production - but in fairness injuries - but at least he was a pick on the dline, which was an area of need. 
 

Poles did do a good job on both oline trades and Dalman is fine, but good god did he piss down his leg on his defensive free agents, yet again. 
 

But it’s his sheer waste of relevant draft capital and inability to hit big in draft with roster construction that leads me to believe he is bad. I hope I’m proven wrong though. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

8 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Shemar looks like the worse pick in terms of production - but in fairness injuries - but at least he was a pick on the dline, which was an area of need. 

Speaking of Turner…

[DABEARSDABOMB]

4 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Speaking of Turner…

Yeah - bummer. Hope he recovers quickly and ends up becoming a dude for the bears. I saw where BJ talked about how he played a big part in the run d improving. 

[BearFan PHX]

33 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I think I with this past draft it comes down to best use of draft capital and the Bears just didn’t do it - period. 
 

With that said - I expect Loveland and Luther are both going to be good football players - they just weren’t the right picks or right positional value with the Bears. I do think both are very good prospects though at their position. 
 

Trapillo was solid value and I haven’t seen any reason to think he couldn’t become a good RT, but like the guys above, not right use of draft capital relative to roster. Bears literally took a guy top 10 at position 2 years earlier. So unless they plan on flipping Wright, it’s bad roster construction. 
 

Shemar looks like the worse pick in terms of production - but in fairness injuries - but at least he was a pick on the dline, which was an area of need. 
 

Poles did do a good job on both oline trades and Dalman is fine, but good god did he piss down his leg on his defensive free agents, yet again. 
 

But it’s his sheer waste of relevant draft capital and inability to hit big in draft with roster construction that leads me to believe he is bad. I hope I’m proven wrong though. 

This is very well said. Loveland and Burden will be good for us for a long time, but they were the wrong picks.

Maybe Burden made sense, but a 5 win team picking a TE at #10? In a draft that had multiple good ones to boot.

Trading down for Trapilo, if it was a reach to supplant Braxton Jones was a mistake. And we skipped Areonte Ersery there to also acquire Shemar Turner.

I mean, we are super lucky that Benedet has come out of the woodwork, but effectively trading Ersery (at 41) for Trapilo and Turner was a huge mistake. And you STILL could have had Burden anyway at 39!

[jason]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I'm right here.  I wouldn't say I loved the Loveland pick but I did like it and I still do.   We used a lot of 12 personnel in the Ravens game, but I don't know snap counts.  I remember missing one TD early because the 3rd TE whiffed on a block at the goal line. 

When it is being run it is successful. 

I can't answer % blocking but I don't care because I like having a TE who can excel in run blocking, route running, and pass catching.   I like having a coach who knows how to use that too.   

 

I appreciate that you own it, but a 5-win team shouldn’t be spending a first round pick on a TE, much less a blocking TE. Blocking TEs go on day 3.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Maybe Burden made sense, but a 5 win team picking a TE at #10? In a draft that had multiple good ones to boot.

For me Burden made/makes sense.  From what I read on him he was a first round talent and really he looks to be the replacement for Moore .  We all know he costs a lot and at some point will need to move on.  
 

Loveland made little sense.   I get why they did it and have to believe Johnson had some say on what he wanted but as you and others have said, if all your gonna do is use him as blocking TE, there are much better options out there later in the draft.  And if the theory is to have two stud TEs (with Kmet being the other) then use them accordingly.  

[Mongo3451]

Regarding the draft.  It sucked that a LT didn't fall to us in the first.  After that, I believe they switched to the strategy of next year.  Drafting Loveland and Burden, uogrades Kmet and DJ while getting younger and cheaper.  We've discussed difference makers before.  I was higher on Warren, but can see why the choose Loveland, due to his length and speed.  Burden is a bigger faster DJ.

All said, if we can't rush the passer, all is moot...

[AZ54]

12 hours ago, jason said:

I appreciate that you own it, but a 5-win team shouldn’t be spending a first round pick on a TE, much less a blocking TE. Blocking TEs go on day 3.

It’s fine we disagree but just because he doesn’t have a lot of targets doesn’t make him purely a blocking TE.

 I understand there are different roster construction strategies.   For me at that draft position I want a Pro Bowl player.  I think Loveland has the talent to achieve that.  Just not in his first 6 games.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

All said, if we can't rush the passer, all is moot...

But that's what Sweat and Grady Jarrett and Odeyingbo (etc) are for?  🤷‍♀️

[jason]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

It’s fine we disagree but just because he doesn’t have a lot of targets doesn’t make him purely a blocking TE.

 I understand there are different roster construction strategies.   For me at that draft position I want a Pro Bowl player.  I think Loveland has the talent to achieve that.  Just not in his first 6 games.  

Make no mistake, he’s a blocking TE if that’s how the Bears use him. Unless they start really including him on offense, he’s primarily a blocking TE.

Can he be a receiving TE? Sure. That’s the only reason a team would draft a TE in the first.

But right now he’s a blocking TE.