Politics

[DrunkBomber]

I understand this is a picture of you at a recent McCain event. BWAAA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! You fat Republican bastard.

 

Youre losing your touch, that ones not funny at all.

[CrackerDog]

Youre losing your touch, that ones not funny at all.

 

Dang. You went for the hippie angle so I went for fat Republican. Thought it was a natural.

 

[DrunkBomber]

Dang. You went for the hippie angle so I went for fat Republican. Thought it was a natural.

 

I thought all republicans were just racist, I didnt know they were all fat too. Hows the job hunt going?

[CrackerDog]

I thought all republicans were just racist, I didnt know they were all fat too. Hows the job hunt going?

 

How's the cross burning going?

[DrunkBomber]

How's the cross burning going?

Its been raining non stop here so its been difficult.

[CrackerDog]

Its been raining non stop here so its been difficult.

 

LOL

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If there was a way I could vote for this and this alone I would. Id prefer to take care of myself and my family and have other people do the same. Things like wealth redistribution and big brother are my biggest gripes. Having cameras sending people tickets is ridiculous.

 

Isn't the Patriot Act one of the largest infringements on personal liberties you have seen in recent memory? You realize where that policy came alive right? I know it was a "result" of the "unexpected" and "unprovoked" attacks of September 11th but why didn't it go away as originally intended?

 

You know when Clinton attempted to enact ideas that are listed in the Patriot Act, IE: wirtapping, file perusing (Filegate) and other similar actions he was chided for his work. Now these are commonplace and accepted practices by the Republican party. Oh yeah, I suppose you have heard that in the last couple of months we have been experiencing the worst recesssion in a longgggg time. Today begins the fall of the Stock Market. Does it feel like 1929 in here?

 

As far as wealth redistribution goes, what is wrong with taxing the snot out of the upper 5%? I kinda like that idea anyhow and being sure that the smaller people are benefiting more from what has been a total disregard for sensible Government in the last 8 years. You can bet Palin won't do anything to help her party out in that regards.

[madlithuanian]

The PAtriot Act is bad...and nor are the Dem's doing much to stop it either.

 

Both parties are failing the public.

 

Isn't the Patriot Act one of the largest infringements on personal liberties you have seen in recent memory? You realize where that policy came alive right? I know it was a "result" of the "unexpected" and "unprovoked" attacks of September 11th but why didn't it go away as originally intended?

 

You know when Clinton attempted to enact ideas that are listed in the Patriot Act, IE: wirtapping, file perusing (Filegate) and other similar actions he was chided for his work. Now these are commonplace and accepted practices by the Republican party. Oh yeah, I suppose you have heard that in the last couple of months we have been experiencing the worst recesssion in a longgggg time. Today begins the fall of the Stock Market. Does it feel like 1929 in here?

 

As far as wealth redistribution goes, what is wrong with taxing the snot out of the upper 5%? I kinda like that idea anyhow and being sure that the smaller people are benefiting more from what has been a total disregard for sensible Government in the last 8 years. You can bet Palin won't do anything to help her party out in that regards.

[DrunkBomber]

The PAtriot Act is bad...and nor are the Dem's doing much to stop it either.

 

Both parties are failing the public.

What he said

[Alaskan Grizzly]

The PAtriot Act is bad...and nor are the Dem's doing much to stop it either.

 

Both parties are failing the public.

 

I don't completely agree but for the sake of arguement I would assume most will vote then for the lesser of two evils.

 

I will concede that at times the Democratic party (of which I am not a part of) tends to be a little too wussy and hesitant in what their plans are. Hillary would have been a breath of fresh air in that regards. Don't misunderstand my appreciation for her as I feel she thinks she was "owed" the Presidential bid...and later the VP slot. But she is a fighter and has a tough resolve. But again, sometimes the Democrats just try to hard to be overly intellect and sensitive to what they think people want. Just state your dang policies and stick by your guns.

 

IMHO, Obama is wanting to try something different and right the ship. McCain probably does too but is too far too gone. He has the likes of Rove and Cheney giving him advice on what he should be doing and how he will do it.

[madlithuanian]

Usually that is the case, and usually the lesser of 2 evils, still being evil, isn't much more evil than the other. I think for the past 2 elections, it's been clearer.

 

The Dems are pretty much wusses...they usually let the Reps walk all over them. Hillary may not have let it happen as easily.

 

Obama's taking the high road. Remember, nice guys finish last.

 

 

I don't completely agree but for the sake of arguement I would assume most will vote then for the lesser of two evils.

 

I will concede that at times the Democratic party (of which I am not a part of) tends to be a little too wussy and hesitant in what their plans are. Hillary would have been a breath of fresh air in that regards. Don't misunderstand my appreciation for her as I feel she thinks she was "owed" the Presidential bid...and later the VP slot. But she is a fighter and has a tough resolve. But again, sometimes the Democrats just try to hard to be overly intellect and sensitive to what they think people want. Just state your dang policies and stick by your guns.

 

IMHO, Obama is wanting to try something different and right the ship. McCain probably does too but is too far too gone. He has the likes of Rove and Cheney giving him advice on what he should be doing and how he will do it.

[CrackerDog]

Obama's taking the high road. Remember, nice guys finish last.

 

Let's hope that isn't the case. We're seeing in dramatic fashion what 8 years of complete Republican rule leads to. I know the Dems have had "control" of the Congress these last 18 months but:

 

1.) Face it, impeachment wasn't a realistic option and that's the only thing that would've stopped Bush/Cheney

2.) The Senate rules make it impossible to change course without 60 votes

 

So, when you have a loose cannon President and no real opportunity to stop him, you try to contain him until you can make a change at the top. That's why it's so important that we elect Obama. I'm not saying he's god or anything, hell if I know. But he's not controlled by the same interests who've been taking us down this perilous path for 8 years now. He simply can't do any worse than McCain would now that McCain is beholding to the same powers Bush is.

[madlithuanian]

The Dems could have pulled the troops home...could have denied the Patriot Act...could have denied the wire tapping,etc...

 

I think the Prez and his regime are far worse...but the Dem's could have made a horrid situation less horrid and did not.

 

I'm still hoping Obama will win. Polls seem to say it's shifting again a little more towards Obama. I don't think he's the best, but he's the best valid option.

 

 

 

Let's hope that isn't the case. We're seeing in dramatic fashion what 8 years of complete Republican rule leads to. I know the Dems have had "control" of the Congress these last 18 months but:

 

1.) Face it, impeachment wasn't a realistic option and that's the only thing that would've stopped Bush/Cheney

2.) The Senate rules make it impossible to change course without 60 votes

 

So, when you have a loose cannon President and no real opportunity to stop him, you try to contain him until you can make a change at the top. That's why it's so important that we elect Obama. I'm not saying he's god or anything, hell if I know. But he's not controlled by the same interests who've been taking us down this perilous path for 8 years now. He simply can't do any worse than McCain would now that McCain is beholding to the same powers Bush is.

[CrackerDog]

The Dems could have pulled the troops home...could have denied the Patriot Act...could have denied the wire tapping,etc...

 

I think the Prez and his regime are far worse...but the Dem's could have made a horrid situation less horrid and did not.

 

I'm still hoping Obama will win. Polls seem to say it's shifting again a little more towards Obama. I don't think he's the best, but he's the best valid option.

 

We agree a little but your statement about what the Dems could've done ignores politics. Based on my beliefs and convictions alone, I believe Bush and Cheney should've both been impeached by now. But you wouldn't have gotten a "conviction" in the Senate. The Patriot Act shouldn't have been extended, you get no argument from me, but the Dems would've been painted as terrorist sympathizers in every Repug ad and they'd have been out of power in the Congress for taking a principled stand. Hey, I'm all about principled stands... But I understand where they're coming from.

 

And no, they couldn't have pulled the troops out. That's the Commander in Chief's sole call. They could've cut off funds but you and I both know that wasn't practically possible either.

 

No, what they've done is try to play out the string hoping for a better "decider" at the top come November. It's our job to make that a reality.

[Connorbear]

We agree a little but your statement about what the Dems could've done ignores politics. Based on my beliefs and convictions alone, I believe Bush and Cheney should've both been impeached by now. But you wouldn't have gotten a "conviction" in the Senate. The Patriot Act shouldn't have been extended, you get no argument from me, but the Dems would've been painted as terrorist sympathizers in every Repug ad and they'd have been out of power in the Congress for taking a principled stand. Hey, I'm all about principled stands... But I understand where they're coming from.

 

And no, they couldn't have pulled the troops out. That's the Commander in Chief's sole call. They could've cut off funds but you and I both know that wasn't practically possible either.

 

No, what they've done is try to play out the string hoping for a better "decider" at the top come November. It's our job to make that a reality.

Another issue - Republican filibustering:

 

http://www.cwa-legislative.org/news/republ...ers-record.html

 

Peace

[CrackerDog]

Another issue - Republican filibustering:

 

http://www.cwa-legislative.org/news/republ...ers-record.html

 

Oh, no doubt. But then I guess some could still blame the Democrats because they didn't change the Senate rules (the nuclear option as Repugs called it a few years ago.)

 

If you want to, you can find some way, no matter how convoluted, to blame the Democrats for everything. Just watch Fox "News" for 5 minutes to see how it's done. If you've got a few spare IQ points you're bound to lose... But the facts are out there for those who really want the truth. And as my momma says, the proof is in the pudding. 8 years of Republican rule and obstruction gets you to where we find ourselves today. Hopefully, at a minimum, the country has learned enough about their mistakes to put a solid Democratic majority back in place in both houses of Congress. That level of control, even with a Republican President, has worked for decades. Republican and Democratic Presidents together "won the cold war" with a Congress controlled by Democrats for most of 5 decades.

 

But because of the clusterfuck we find ourselves in now, we need to go a step further. We can't just have someone at the top vetoing all of the ideas flowing up from Congress. We need someone serious about tackling the problems George W. Bush has created. Someone who is fired up and ready to lead! Someone with youth on his side. Someone who can build an administration that won't be filled with incompetent cronies left over from the last 8 years. That man is Barack Obama.

[madlithuanian]

Oh I agree about impeachment. They blatantly ignored the constitution numerous times. Regarding the Pat act, no matter what the Dems do, the Reps will spin it as weak. They may as well actually take a stand on something. It show more balls. They still are painted as terrorist sympathyzers as is.

 

That's part of the problem, if you have no principles, how are you truly better? At what point do you sell your principles down the road in order to get elected? This is why I am not a fan of Obama. I just think, that right now, he is truly the significant lesser of 2 evils.

 

But we're not at war. Congress didn't declare war. I'm not an expert, but I think they could have done something.

 

They have strung things out...and if Obama doesn't get it, look at how worse off we'll be because of it.

 

We agree a little but your statement about what the Dems could've done ignores politics. Based on my beliefs and convictions alone, I believe Bush and Cheney should've both been impeached by now. But you wouldn't have gotten a "conviction" in the Senate. The Patriot Act shouldn't have been extended, you get no argument from me, but the Dems would've been painted as terrorist sympathizers in every Repug ad and they'd have been out of power in the Congress for taking a principled stand. Hey, I'm all about principled stands... But I understand where they're coming from.

 

And no, they couldn't have pulled the troops out. That's the Commander in Chief's sole call. They could've cut off funds but you and I both know that wasn't practically possible either.

 

No, what they've done is try to play out the string hoping for a better "decider" at the top come November. It's our job to make that a reality.

[madlithuanian]

Ha! Too true!

 

I kind of look at like someone that stole a care becasue the key were left in the ignition.

 

The Reps are the thief and the Dems left the keys in. Who's to blame? Really the thief. But, no idiot should be leaving their keys out. I prefer a different car owner. But right now, I just hope Obma at least puts the keys under the floormat...

 

Oh, no doubt. But then I guess some could still blame the Democrats because they didn't change the Senate rules (the nuclear option as Repugs called it a few years ago.)

 

If you want to, you can find some way, no matter how convoluted, to blame the Democrats for everything. Just watch Fox "News" for 5 minutes to see how it's done. If you've got a few spare IQ points you're bound to lose... But the facts are out there for those who really want the truth. And as my momma says, the proof is in the pudding. 8 years of Republican rule and obstruction gets you to where we find ourselves today. Hopefully, at a minimum, the country has learned enough about their mistakes to put a solid Democratic majority back in place in both houses of Congress. That level of control, even with a Republican President, has worked for decades. Republican and Democratic Presidents together "won the cold war" with a Congress controlled by Democrats for most of 5 decades.

 

But because of the clusterfuck we find ourselves in now, we need to go a step further. We can't just have someone at the top vetoing all of the ideas flowing up from Congress. We need someone serious about tackling the problems George W. Bush has created. Someone who is fired up and ready to lead! Someone with youth on his side. Someone who can build an administration that won't be filled with incompetent cronies left over from the last 8 years. That man is Barack Obama.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If you want to, you can find some way, no matter how convoluted, to blame the Democrats for everything. Just watch Fox "News" for 5 minutes to see how it's done.

 

So true, so true....and very funny.

 

So now, besides all the other impeding on rights and all we as a nation are force fed to help bailing out large companies IE: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and just today AIG. You know we are all paying for that right? Isn't this very similar to a point someone made a week or two ago on this very post about "getting something for nothing" but in reverse? So who is the better to help in a situation like this...the small person without medical benefits and little or no education or the multi billion company that can't manage its money?

 

And by the by, Congress authorized an "extended military engagement" as is witnessed by the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. They are not technically wars. A war in the truest sense is declared (or allowed) by Congress against another nation(s) not a group, ergo Terrorists. In the case of the aforementioned examples, these are more a title of what Bush wanted to do and was eventually authorized by Congress.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Its quite funny reading these politcial posts, from an objective point there isn't a great deal of difference between McCain and Obama. One is a moderate centre-right politician, the other moderate-centre left. I find it quite amusing though to hear Obama labelled a socialist based on his approach to universal health care, from a European perspectibe he aint anywhere near left wing enough to be considered a socialist.

Personally speaking I don't think this could be farther from the truth. McCain is a pretty middle of the road conservative but Obama is a very liberal. In fact, in general over the past 8 years the democratic party has been pushed farther left while the republicans pushed themselves farther right. Obama is about as far left as it gets with Kerry/Kennedy/Pelosi being about the only people farther to the left. However, McCain is a relatively middle road conservative and its why a lot of republicans were unhappy when he won the primaries (since people feared he wouldn't be able to rally the base).

 

That said McCain isn't an exciting candidate and thats why he needed someone like Palin to stirr up the spotlight. Obama is the exciting candidate and he needed a VP who has credentials (since Obama really has limited political experience) and Biden fit the bill. The reality is there is a lot more similarities between Palin and Obama & McCain/Biden respectively than the other way around.

 

McCain/Biden are the grizzled vets where as Palin/Obama are the more "exciting" charismatic individuals. But at the end of the day it comes to which policy you agree with. I vote on the economy and I strongly believe in the typical republican way of handling the economy (unfortunately Bush completely ignored that way and spent and spent and spent).

[DABEARSDABOMB]

From the reception he got when he was in Europe I'd say that Obama is well liked over here. Leaning to the left politically then he'd be my choice over McCain.

Its actually interesting. I work for an international company and a few of our people were just over-seas and one of the partners on my engagement (he's actually a democrat) grew up in Europe and still lives there part of the year and indicated that a strong portion of Europe actually favors McCain.

 

Apparently Europe has become growingly concerned with the economy and many seem to believe that McCain winning would be better for the US Markets which in turn would be beneficial for the European markets (since the US is still such a huge portion of the world economy). Obviously on other issues Europe would favor Obama and the democratic party in general.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

So I just got caught up in this thread and I guess DrunkBomber finally has a friend

 

This looks like a fun thread though so I'll try to keep up tell all you dem's whats really up (as if any of us is ever going to convince the other person to vote the other way, LOL).

[Alaskan Grizzly]

That said McCain isn't an exciting candidate and thats why he needed someone like Palin to stirr up the spotlight. Obama is the exciting candidate and he needed a VP who has credentials (since Obama really has limited political experience) and Biden fit the bill. The reality is there is a lot more similarities between Palin and Obama & McCain/Biden respectively than the other way around.

 

McCain/Biden are the grizzled vets where as Palin/Obama are the more "exciting" charismatic individuals. But at the end of the day it comes to which policy you agree with. I vote on the economy and I strongly believe in the typical republican way of handling the economy (unfortunately Bush completely ignored that way and spent and spent and spent).

 

You are right in some regards but off base in others. With McCain, my opinion of him is that after he lost the bid in 2000 he basically became a lap dog for the Republicans (see Rove/Cheney) and is obviously much more "tempered" than when he was a true Maverick. As far as picking Palin as the "exciting" factor for his ticket, so yes she is exciting but what about the long run? What makes her inexperience more exciting than Obama's inexperience? If she is so "down home" why is Obama not? If people look at the things she says IE: Russia is not THAT close to us here in Alaska and other topics "Bridge to Nowhere" a lot of what she says is smoke and mirrors. The newness will wear off and then those that vote Republican will see that not everything was as it seemed.

 

Going back to my original thought why would you continue with the economical standpoint and support the McCain ticket? I like the guy too but he doesn't have any new ideas, seperate from Bush's plan, to fix the problem. Obama at least is discussing ideas and plans he has. How is the Republican way of handling the economy better than the opposition?

 

Lastly, going back on the experience factor again. George Bush Jr came in as a Governor of Texas prior to his becoming President. Besides at one time owning the Texas Rangers, what major accomplishment could you attribute to his leadership? That he could take credit for singlehandedly? Cheney was a CEO for Halliburton (and you see what good that has been for them) after serving as Sec of Defense for GB#1 and other governmental entities before that, so he could be the grizzled old vet for which you refer. She (Palin) and McCain are falling into that "Good ol Boy" network they claim to not want to be a part of.

[CrackerDog]

A few more global thoughts...

 

1. There are serious conflicts within the groups that make up the modern Republican Party and nobody really seeming to notice or care. I think a lot of Republicans, if they really thought about it, would admit this isn't their daddy's Republican Party anymore. In fact, if they weren't so stubborn, they might actually see that the "other guys" actually represent them better these days.

 

2. One party is clearly more likely to foster new technologies leading to new types of jobs. We aren't really talking about the jobs that are leaving, although I believe that can be slowed by tax policy that doesn't favor companies that export jobs. Let's face it, if we don't make a few changes, there won't be many left in this country who can afford to buy the few products we still make here. The middle class is shrinking.

 

3. If Republicans had all the answers, why aren't things better? Nobody will ever convince me I'm better off now than I was 8 years ago. The average American simply isn't. If McCain is different than Bush, on the important issues, why'd he hold W's hand for the last few years? More importantly, I recall having serious reservations about Bush 8 years ago. And I was told by all my Republican friends, "Trust us. It'll be OK." Now they're all distancing themselves from the guy they voted for twice. Meanwhile I recall Carter getting mocked for "socialized medicine" when I was in my formative years. The state of health care in this country has been eroding since. I have medical insurance, good medical insurance, and medical problems my family had last year could've ruined us. They don't pay! I recall Al Gore being mocked for his stance on the environment. These days, he's seen differently by all but a fringe group and his forecasts in the 80's are starting to prove out in unmistakable ways. Your side claimed Reagan won the cold war but failed to credit Carter for beginning the M1 Abrahams Tank, the B1 Bomber, the MX missile system and getting Pershing II missiles in Europe. Not to mention Kennedy having the backbone to take us to the brink of nuclear war, Truman fighting the first hot battle of the cold war era and Roosevelt leading us through WWII when the cold war was already really raging... Just check the history books and Patton's take on things. I guess you'll have to excuse me if after all this and after how wrong the people who've mocked me for the things I've believed in over the years have been, if I refuse to take them at their word this time around.

 

4. I think if you honestly look at these two men and put away any pre-conceived notions about what a Democrat/Republican are, and judge them solely on what they bring to the table at this point in our history, I think you'd admit Obama is a better fit. We need more than ever someone who can interact with Europe and our allies in respectful and cooperative ways. We need fresh ideas. We need to flush out the cronies in so many parts of the current administration and put folks in there with real credentials and real energy to do the job they've been given. Even if McCain is "different" many of the same people will stay in place. We need intelligence. I think most would admit to being a little frightened or embarrassed by some of the things McCain has said and done recently. His age, as much as I'd like to not be ageist, is an issue. It just is. We need someone in there who does understand the economy and who brought someone on his ticket who'll be a real help to him as President rather than someone who brought someone on for political reasons alone. Romney was a far better choice, or even Bloomberg. We need people who believe in and support science in positions of power these days. Creationism has a place in our churches, not in our courtrooms or classrooms. I could go on and on.

 

I really think it's time to "get serious" and forget the whole Red/Blue America bullshit. If you've voted Republican your whole life just because it's what you do, I'll ask you to think outside the box this time for the benefit of the entire country... The entire world.

[madlithuanian]

Stay away from both parties...

 

One steals money from your left pocket, the other from the right. However, right now, my right pocket's completely empty. I'm going to give the left a whirl for this one...

 

Until we truly have a 3rd party (or more) option...the govt will continue to railroad rights off the map and still cozy up to too many lobbyists no matter what they promise us now before the election.

 

 

 

 

So I just got caught up in this thread and I guess DrunkBomber finally has a friend

 

This looks like a fun thread though so I'll try to keep up tell all you dem's whats really up (as if any of us is ever going to convince the other person to vote the other way, LOL).