JA on Nate

[ASHKUM BEAR]

One thing I don't get is everyone thinking we won't be a big player in FA this year. We will have 25-26 mil in available cap and who do we really have on our roster that we will be putting money up on? That money will have to be spent somewhere. I expect some big moves, heres a possiblity:

 

OJ Atowge FS - Even though JA said Manning will get looked at again at FS and were crowded at CB with average. We could really solidify the D with finally adding a topflight FS. Atowge will get top dollar at FS if STL don't resign/tag him. Using Ken Hamlin's contract heres what to expect:

 

7/15/2008: Signed a six-year, $37.5 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $9 million signing bonus. Another $2 million is available through escalators in 2012 and 2013. 2009: $4.305 million, 2010: $5.596 million, 2011: $5 million, 2012: $6 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charges: $5.805 million (2009), $7.096 million (2010), $6.5 million (2011), $7.5 million (2012), $8.5 million (2013).

 

26 million minus 9 million = 17 million left

 

Chris Simms QB- JA said QB will be a priortiy until they get it right. They have always been high on Simms since he was drafted. He can come in a compete with Orton and push him to improve. Looking for a similiar contract a backup QB just signed, I used Seneca Wallace.

 

8/21/2007: Signed a four-year, $6.2 million contract. The deal included a $1.6 million signing bonus. 2008: $605,000 (+ $400,000 roster bonus due 3/15), 2009-2010: $1.5 million, 2011: Free Agent

 

17 million minus approx. 3 million = 14 million left.

 

Vernon Carey RT - To help solidy the Oline, JA may look back to FA. Carey is a RT who right now would prefer to stay in Miami where he played college ball, but a lucrative deal and maybe some swaying from Hester and Olsen can land CHI a solid RT. Using David Stewarts contract from the Titans should be close to what it would take.

 

6/27/2008: Signed a six-year, $38.9 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed, including a $6 million signing bonus. 2008: $1 million (+ $2 million roster bonus), 2009-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent

 

14 million minus 9 million = 5 million left.

 

There should be a player or two that we can cut that will increase our cap for a little more flexiblity with rookie pool, etc.

 

Adding those three, I'd like to see the draft go:

1-Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech 6-7 257

2- Louis Murphy WR Florida 6-3 204

3-Trevor Canfield G Cincy

3b-Rashad Jennings RB Liberty

4-Scott McKillop ILB Pittsburgh

5-Brannon Sutherland FB Geogia

6-Graham Gano PK USC

7-Cullen Harper QB Clemson

[danimal99]

Well glad your in the film room with him to realize he is stupid. The past does not relate to the present. His play at nickel really improved over the season. But putting Vasher would be an immediate upgrade. Look for JA to go after a FS high in this draft. 4 out of 4 playoff teams had safties hightlight the day. Dawkins, Palamalu, Wilson and Reed, I dont see anything even close to that on this bears roster. Brown, Worrel, McGowan, Steltz, Payne and manning just dont relate to elite to me at this point. Unless payne really comes on this next season with Steltz, They are gonna have to draft a safety high.

 

What sucks is the fact after this season the glaring needs are more evident this year then in seasons past. It will make for a interesting draft for sure.

 

Well when a guy has to transfer from Nebraska to Abilene Christian because he can't handle the academics. One doesn't need to be in a film room to see he struggles with knowing the BEARS D. I'm not the first person to question Mannings IQ. What makes Mike Brown such a good player is he's very smart and knows all the in's and out's of the BEARS D. Then that's not a surprise as Brown was an academic all american @ Nebraska.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Adding those three, I'd like to see the draft go:

1-Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech 6-7 257

2- Louis Murphy WR Florida 6-3 204

3-Trevor Canfield G Cincy

3b-Rashad Jennings RB Liberty

4-Scott McKillop ILB Pittsburgh

5-Brannon Sutherland FB Geogia

6-Graham Gano PK USC

7-Cullen Harper QB Clemson

For what?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Double post.

[flea]

I'd have no problem bringing in a K. Don't think I'd use a draft pick though. Yes Gould is a damn good K but wouldn't you like someone that ya can kick 50+ yarders with?

[nfoligno]

I've never understood the "move Tillman to FS" movement, except for a few years ago when we thought he sucked. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever heard talk about Vasher being moved except for the board. To me it just makes sense because Vasher's been demoted and we are desperate for a FS.

 

Started years ago. When we drafted him, I don't recall which of our coaches said it, but he said that if Tillman didn't make it as a CB, he could be an all-pro safety. Frankly, since then, anytime he struggled, it was talked about. Maybe it was talked about most heavily on this board, but also often in the media, and I have heard the coaches make comments that lead me to believe it has at some points at least been considered by them too.

 

I don't think Vasher could be much worse at FS then the guys we've had. If DM is our starting nickel-back, Graham is our corner, you don't think we should cut Vasher, then what should we do with him?

 

First, let me get this out there. I think there is a very real chance Vasher is still out starting CB for game one next year. Vasher is yet another player who seemed to tank after Rivera left. In fact, this year, he seemed to let the frustrations surface when he started to essentially call out babich. As I recall, he said something about not being the one telling the corners where to line up, and not being the one telling them to play the outside and give up the inside. Anyway, call it excuses, but his play took a 180 turn after Babich took over, and I simply wonder if he isn't a player we are going to see make a turnaround.

 

But, lets assume for the sake of this argument Vasher does not win the starting job. Are you so sure DM wins the nickel job over him too? Heck, based on Angelo's recent comments, it sure sounds like (despite what we may think) Angelo wants DM back at FS. Either way, I am not 100% (or close to it) DM beats Vasher out for the nickel job.

 

I simply do not see the point in cutting Vasher. You are assuming Graham is our long term starter. You are assuming DM can and will play nickel. And you are assuming we will be injury free, because if you cut Vasher, we have virtually no depth, and in fact likely have to make CB a need this offseason. A year from now, maybe, but I simply don't see the logic today.

 

I will say I agreed with moving DM to FS during the Houston game since we were depleted in the secondary. But that game proved we not only need a FS, but a back-up FS. Payne looks good, but he'll never be great. Steltz might be a stand-out on special teams. I'm assuming McGowan will be gone . . .

I disagree w/ the move for that game too. DM is just not a FS, and in fact, he made the same damn mistake he made in the past. But regardless of that, I agree FS is a top need. IMHO, the problem is Angelo for years has drafted SS' to play FS. Even Steltz was labeled in most predraft stuff as an in-the-box safety, and yet we draft him to play FS.

 

Disagree with us going after a safety. With the exception of DT, there's no other position JA has sought to fill then safety. We draft one damn near every year: Chris Harris, DM, Steltz, Payne, AND we gave up a 4th or 5th round pick to get Arch. (Was McGowan a 7th round pick or an undrafted FA?) And what do we have to show for it? Payne is mediocre at best and we have no FS.

 

Sorry, but 2nd day picks and FAs on their last chance are not what I call addressing a position. I am not discounting 2nd day picks, but if you continually address a position w/ 2nd day picks and undrafted rookie FAs, to me, that is a loud message. I simply do not believe we have ever made S (FS or SS) a priority. IMHO, in Angelo's world, it starts up front, and the further back you go, the less important. The secondary as a whole is simply not worth as much because in our scheme, it all starts up front.

 

The difference between Graham & McBride, is that we really like Graham's size & speed, and he would have been drafted much higher if he hadn't been injured his senior year. McBride looked better last year, but he was given a lot more opportunities since this year he was demoted. Assuming we keep DM at nickel, which should happen, we have Bowman & McBride as back-ups with room to draft one more.

 

First, does it not seem like everyone we draft, we say (he would have been drafted higher but....). I bet every teams fans say the same thing about their players.

 

Second, I am sorry, but are you looking at the depth chart you are writing up? McBride (coming off a downward year) and Bowman (part of one game experience) are the backups. You mention drafting another, which likely would be later, but damn. That is some very questionable depth. Tillman has been injured all year, and was hurt last year. Should we assume he doesn't get hurt next? Again, our depth chart simply look a lot better IMHO w/ Vasher than w/o. If we needed the money and couldn't afford him, that would be one thing, but w/ around $25m cap space, I don't see that as a need.

 

As I mentioned, I could see us doing the same thing we did with RMJ: Keep him around but not give him a real chance to win his job back. Unless there's a roster bonus due, it doesn't benefit us to cut him now.

 

Exactly. While I would rather give him a chance (all players should get a chance) the real point is our depth chart is better w/ him than w/o, and there is simply no real financial reason to cut him at this point.

 

Yes, but after 3 years of failure??? JA is often slow to pull the plug, but after 3 years, even he usually gets it. Of course it might not be JA's call at what position he plays.

 

Frankly, when it comes to DM and our handling of him, I just do not see enough logic to understand it. I mean, the kid has been moved around like it was nothing. How is a player supposed to develop when we move him around so much. Think about this. On offense, we avoid having a WR learn both the X and Y positions. We don't want to over-load them, and pigeon hole them at one slot. But DM was shuffled back and forth between FS, CB and nickel. Wow.

 

It's also interesting that DM will be a free agent this year. That wouldn't mean much if he hadn't finished the season as the top kick-return man in the league.

 

Good point. Returners are the new big thing, and he looked great in that regard. And w/ Hester stinking up the place, you have to wonder what sort of value we will place on keeping him. Man, I don't even want to think about that one.

[nfoligno]

I would argue you are wrong on both points.

 

One. I disagree we had a worse DL in '07 than '08. Wale played at a higher level, as did Harris. And while our rotations of Walker, Adams and Idonije was nothing to write home about, it was leaps and bounds better than Dusty. I know Idonije, Adams and Harrison were all part of the team, but until mid season (about a game before his injury) we were really playing Dusty a lot. In fact, Adams was not even active on game days for 1/2 the season. So I would strongly disagree that our DL this year was better than the previous. In fact, I would argue it was significantly worse. Not until later in the year, after we replaced Dusty, did our DL begin to show signs of life. Oh yea. And this is when most believe Urlacher picked him game up too. Coincidence?

 

Two. While our DTs are one gap, compared to the two gap Washington/Traylor years, the ends are expected to be similar, even if the means are not. In the 2 gap, your wide bodies take up the space and blockers w/ pure girth. In the one gap, you don't have wide bodies, but the theory is your DTs use speed and quickness to force teams to double cover them. So even though they are not as big, they are still expected to force double teams. They didn't.

 

I am not sure if you simply hate Urlacher, or if you believe any defense of Urlacher is an attack on the scheme you so want to defend, but come on. There is not a poster here who will not put some of the blame on Urlacher, but you seem unwilling to accept there may have been other factors. Does our replacing all position coaches and demoting our DC not indicate even Angelo and Lovie believe coaching as a partial factor in our defenses bad play.

 

No one is going to argue Urlacher could have, and should have, done more. At the same time, I think most believe coaching and DL were contributing factors, and it blows my mind that you (w/ a coaching background) can not even see it, or will not admit it if you do. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There can be more than one factor/reason when a player/unit/team doesn't do well, and in fact, it most often is multiple factors.

 

He had a worse d line the year before but a better year.

 

Also our DT are one gap players. Not the two gap Ted Wash style DT's. Url is always going to have people coming at him.

 

 

Quite simply put, his play declined this year.

[nfoligno]

One thing I don't get is everyone thinking we won't be a big player in FA this year. We will have 25-26 mil in available cap and who do we really have on our roster that we will be putting money up on? That money will have to be spent somewhere. I expect some big moves, heres a possiblity:

 

Yea, I have considered that too. I think we very well could be players in FA. As you mentioned, we have plenty of cap space and few (if any) players worth an extension or re-signing. One thing though. Is it not also possible we don't utilize all our cap this year if we don't see FAs we like? For example, we and others use that unlikely to reach incentives (or whatever they are called) which eats current cap space, but adds to the cap space in later years. Its why we have $25m instead of $19 this year. If we are not thrilled w/ who is out there, we can once again see this. Not saying we will, should, or that I would, but simply adding an element. As you said, we have space and few to sign, which would mean you have to use the cap space. Thus why I am throwing out there an added possibility.

 

One more thing, and this would absolutely fall in line w/ our past deals. While we may get some FAs, it is also possible we pay fewer FAs more upfront, while making theirs deals lighers down the road. I think we did that w/ Tait and others too. Rather than shell out $15m SB (example only), we give a $5m roster bonus and $10m SB. Thus, the player is going to cost about $5m more against the cap this year, but less thereafter.

 

Anyway, just throwing out alternative possibilities in genera. Now to the specific.

 

OJ Atowge FS - Even though JA said Manning will get looked at again at FS and were crowded at CB with average. We could really solidify the D with finally adding a topflight FS. Atowge will get top dollar at FS if STL don't resign/tag him. Using Ken Hamlin's contract heres what to expect:

 

I have been talking about Atowge for over a month or so. I think he makes absolute sense in so many ways. Not only does he give us our first true FS in a LONG time, but he is a veteran, and thus we would not have the learning curve or inexperience factor we would if we drafted a rookie. The problem may be, will he hit FA? I have heard/read many who do not believe StL will let him go. They will either re-sign him prior to FA or could even tag him, particularly as it doesn't cost nearly as much to tag a S as it does so many other positions. If he does hit FA though, I would be all over him. For the record, I believe we have plenty of cap space, so unless we begin to talk about adding 2 or 3 of the truly big ticket FAs, I don't see the need to break down contracts.

 

Chris Simms QB- JA said QB will be a priortiy until they get it right. They have always been high on Simms since he was drafted. He can come in a compete with Orton and push him to improve. Looking for a similiar contract a backup QB just signed, I used Seneca Wallace.

 

While I agree Simms may be on our radar, and agree he is a possibility, few moves would make me as sick. I followed Simms since college, and even Texan fans were not high on him. He started at Texas due to his name, not performance. Major Applewhite should have started over Simms in college. In Simms, you have Rex Grossman. Even in college, it was known that if you pressured him, he wilted. Lucky for him that on Texas, he played behind an OL that didn't allow many teams to pressure him, but that was also why he stunk against Oklahoma. They could pressure him, and it was ugly. No change since entering college. He has the name and physical tools, but not the head. Wow, where does that sound familiar.

 

There are a slew of young QBs w/ some experience who could be added for depth and/or some competition. I just pray it isn't Simms.

 

Vernon Carey RT - To help solidy the Oline, JA may look back to FA. Carey is a RT who right now would prefer to stay in Miami where he played college ball, but a lucrative deal and maybe some swaying from Hester and Olsen can land CHI a solid RT. Using David Stewarts contract from the Titans should be close to what it would take.

 

Actually, Carey is exactly who I mentioned too. There are better OTs in FA, but they are going to cost a ton too. Carey could actually be even cheaper this year than you think due to how many OTs are in front of him. Either way, I see him as a solid addition. The only question is, do we cut Tait? I would, but I am not sure angelo will.

 

There should be a player or two that we can cut that will increase our cap for a little more flexiblity with rookie pool, etc.

 

If we add a RT, you have to believe we will cut Tait, which I think adds considerable cap space. If we add a DE, you have to believe we cut Wale, which again, adds space. Frankly, I think the FAs you mention would be relatively easy to add. In fact, I think we could do far more if we wanted. I think we will also add St. Clair. While you added Carey, we did nothing to upgrade our interior, and adding St. Clair provided depth all over the OL, as well as upgrades our LG position.

 

The only other issue I have w/ your plan is the lack of a WR. I know you mention drafting a WR in the 2nd round, but sorry, a 2nd round WR is not all we are lacking. If we finish this offseason w/ a 2nd round Wr as our only upgrade, I think we will have blown it.

[nfoligno]

That's a good point. We have all talked about how we lined up Urlacher, but what has not been discussed much is how this will change next year.

 

DL - Often I felt our DL was lined up too tight, which doesn't give the DEs much advantage hitting the edge.

 

LB - Often discussed, but will the LBs do that stupid fake blitz, playing ontop of the DL, then running backward.

 

CB - Will they continue to lineup 8-10 yards off the LOS, then funnel everything inside w/o challenge?

 

S - Will our FS continue to lineup so deep that he has taken himself out of the picture, and we are essentially left w/ 10 guys on the field? We often played our FS as if he were simply insurance for a big play.

 

Gotta wonder how much of what we saw Babich run will be changed by Lovie. At the same time, I will have to wonder why Lovie, if he felt changes were necessary, didn't step in sooner.

 

True, but up until this year he wasn't forced to line up in the A Gap 90% of the time 5 yds or less off the line of scrimage. He was out of position to use his speed. I bet you will not see this positioning used this year.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Yea, I have considered that too. I think we very well could be players in FA. As you mentioned, we have plenty of cap space and few (if any) players worth an extension or re-signing. One thing though. Is it not also possible we don't utilize all our cap this year if we don't see FAs we like? For example, we and others use that unlikely to reach incentives (or whatever they are called) which eats current cap space, but adds to the cap space in later years. Its why we have $25m instead of $19 this year. If we are not thrilled w/ who is out there, we can once again see this. Not saying we will, should, or that I would, but simply adding an element. As you said, we have space and few to sign, which would mean you have to use the cap space. Thus why I am throwing out there an added possibility.

 

One more thing, and this would absolutely fall in line w/ our past deals. While we may get some FAs, it is also possible we pay fewer FAs more upfront, while making theirs deals lighers down the road. I think we did that w/ Tait and others too. Rather than shell out $15m SB (example only), we give a $5m roster bonus and $10m SB. Thus, the player is going to cost about $5m more against the cap this year, but less thereafter.

 

Anyway, just throwing out alternative possibilities in genera. Now to the specific.

 

That could be a possiblity, but I see us adding some players with the growing pressure coming on Lovie/JA. If we were to move forward money, maybe they will do it to help out eventually moving on w/ Urlacher and Vasher as there play seems to be diminised the most.

 

I have been talking about Atowge for over a month or so. I think he makes absolute sense in so many ways. Not only does he give us our first true FS in a LONG time, but he is a veteran, and thus we would not have the learning curve or inexperience factor we would if we drafted a rookie. The problem may be, will he hit FA? I have heard/read many who do not believe StL will let him go. They will either re-sign him prior to FA or could even tag him, particularly as it doesn't cost nearly as much to tag a S as it does so many other positions. If he does hit FA though, I would be all over him. For the record, I believe we have plenty of cap space, so unless we begin to talk about adding 2 or 3 of the truly big ticket FAs, I don't see the need to break down contracts.

 

Hopefully STL looks to rebuild and lets him walk. After him, I like Phillips out of Tampa, who may be a little cheaper.

 

 

While I agree Simms may be on our radar, and agree he is a possibility, few moves would make me as sick. I followed Simms since college, and even Texan fans were not high on him. He started at Texas due to his name, not performance. Major Applewhite should have started over Simms in college. In Simms, you have Rex Grossman. Even in college, it was known that if you pressured him, he wilted. Lucky for him that on Texas, he played behind an OL that didn't allow many teams to pressure him, but that was also why he stunk against Oklahoma. They could pressure him, and it was ugly. No change since entering college. He has the name and physical tools, but not the head. Wow, where does that sound familiar.

 

There are a slew of young QBs w/ some experience who could be added for depth and/or some competition. I just pray it isn't Simms.

 

I'm not high on Simms myself, but unless we go after Warner, I think Simms can be a stop gap to backup Orton for 1 year, Or maybe even Leftwich which some have mentioned. Whats really bad about the FA QB's, I'd rather keep Grossman for another yr just to see if Orton can take another step to earn a long term contract.

 

 

Actually, Carey is exactly who I mentioned too. There are better OTs in FA, but they are going to cost a ton too. Carey could actually be even cheaper this year than you think due to how many OTs are in front of him. Either way, I see him as a solid addition. The only question is, do we cut Tait? I would, but I am not sure angelo will.

 

It's hard to actually judge how Carey has done since you really don't here much about RT's in the league. All I really know is he was pretty good at the U. and he has played some LT also w/ the phins. The type of RT is personally want is the best run blocking, especially if Orton is to stay QB. As for cutting Tait, does anyone know what we'd save or lose. Maybe cutting Tait can cover resigning St. Clair.

 

If we add a RT, you have to believe we will cut Tait, which I think adds considerable cap space. If we add a DE, you have to believe we cut Wale, which again, adds space. Frankly, I think the FAs you mention would be relatively easy to add. In fact, I think we could do far more if we wanted. I think we will also add St. Clair. While you added Carey, we did nothing to upgrade our interior, and adding St. Clair provided depth all over the OL, as well as upgrades our LG position.

I really don't think we'll do a whole lot to upgrade the interior in FA, I would like to see us draft a G in the 3rd RD like Canfield. We also have Buenning who I think we'll get more of a look this offseason. You also got to expect Beekman will keep his job next year as he was better than expected and another offseason he should really improve by just knowing were he needs to be in terms of strength. I can see JA cutting Tait, Garza, Metcalf if he brings in Carey, resigns St. Clair, and Buenning is ready to go.

 

The only other issue I have w/ your plan is the lack of a WR. I know you mention drafting a WR in the 2nd round, but sorry, a 2nd round WR is not all we are lacking. If we finish this offseason w/ a 2nd round Wr as our only upgrade, I think we will have blown it.

 

I here you there, but w/ only 25 million or so to work with I'm not sure if we can squeeze a FA WR in. Maybe we can work it out were we can bring in a Clayton from Tampa or A. Bryant. Or if were confident DM can play FS and we move Vasher to nickel, we can use the Atogwe money on Housh?

[akshaz]

Every once in a while, JA gets a bad case of foot in mouth disease. This is one of those times.

 

Let me preface this by saying Mike Brown is one of my favorite Bears of all time. That being said, I have no issues with them letting him go. Although he played 15 games this yr, he left 3 before halftime do to injury. Further, it is clear he has lost a step. It is clear he cannot handle the pounding of playing SS and he is not fast enough to play FS.

 

I would love to sign him up as a coach but I think he will want to play for a couple more yrs.

 

Peace

 

You know, this pisses me off!!! Yes, Mike Brown is a step slower. But, he's clearly still our best safety, free or strong. I ask, who will we replace him with that's better? We already know about Daniel Manning, who IMHO should be allowed to continue to get better at nickel. Payne? The kid is a huge liability in coverage and although makes the occassional big hit, misses enough tackles to make me forget about those hits. Craig Steltz? Don't get me started. Brandon McGowen? Okay, now how is his health better than MB's? Worrell? Yeah right.

 

My brother is a Chargers fan and seriously believes they are bringing in Mike Brown. He knows about the loss of speed but doesn't care. He just wants a smart player back there that can make plays and is not a liability in coverage.

 

Does anybody else think that it's a just a coincidence that we has our worse defensive passing game during the only game that Mike Brown didn't play?

 

Mike Brown is one of my all-time favorite Bears. According to the players, he is the real leader in the locker room. Any fan that has watched us can see how he fires up our team. I don't care if he's slower, he still brings it.

 

If we had a real replacement on the roster, I would probably think differently. But, it's obvious that we don't.

[DrunkBomber]

You know, this pisses me off!!! Yes, Mike Brown is a step slower. But, he's clearly still our best safety, free or strong. I ask, who will we replace him with that's better? We already know about Daniel Manning, who IMHO should be allowed to continue to get better at nickel. Payne? The kid is a huge liability in coverage and although makes the occassional big hit, misses enough tackles to make me forget about those hits. Craig Steltz? Don't get me started. Brandon McGowen? Okay, now how is his health better than MB's? Worrell? Yeah right.

 

My brother is a Chargers fan and seriously believes they are bringing in Mike Brown. He knows about the loss of speed but doesn't care. He just wants a smart player back there that can make plays and is not a liability in coverage.

 

Does anybody else think that it's a just a coincidence that we has our worse defensive passing game during the only game that Mike Brown didn't play?

 

Mike Brown is one of my all-time favorite Bears. According to the players, he is the real leader in the locker room. Any fan that has watched us can see how he fires up our team. I don't care if he's slower, he still brings it.

 

If we had a real replacement on the roster, I would probably think differently. But, it's obvious that we don't.

I agree completely. Pretty much this is exactly how I feel about it.

[madlithuanian]

I third that...

 

I agree completely. Pretty much this is exactly how I feel about it.

[nfoligno]

That could be a possiblity, but I see us adding some players with the growing pressure coming on Lovie/JA. If we were to move forward money, maybe they will do it to help out eventually moving on w/ Urlacher and Vasher as there play seems to be diminised the most.

 

No argument, I was just throwing out alternatives. I do think we will spend money, but I have a feeling it will be on players we have not talked about much. That always seems to be what happens.

 

Hopefully STL looks to rebuild and lets him walk. After him, I like Phillips out of Tampa, who may be a little cheaper.

 

Like I said, I like him too, but even if Stl is looking to rebuild, you would think they would try to keep the few good players they currently have on the roster, especially the good YOUNG players. I want him, but just don't think the odds are great he will be available.

 

I'm not high on Simms myself, but unless we go after Warner, I think Simms can be a stop gap to backup Orton for 1 year, Or maybe even Leftwich which some have mentioned. Whats really bad about the FA QB's, I'd rather keep Grossman for another yr just to see if Orton can take another step to earn a long term contract.

 

I am not even going to address the Grossman aspect, but of those available, Simms is simply WAY down my list. Boller, Loseman, Carr, Leftwhich and others I would take over Simms.

 

It's hard to actually judge how Carey has done since you really don't here much about RT's in the league. All I really know is he was pretty good at the U. and he has played some LT also w/ the phins. The type of RT is personally want is the best run blocking, especially if Orton is to stay QB. As for cutting Tait, does anyone know what we'd save or lose. Maybe cutting Tait can cover resigning St. Clair.

 

Well, Miami's OL improved this year, and Carey was part of that. I think he would be a solid addition. As for Tait, I don't know the numbers, but as I recall, we frontloaded a good bit of his deal, and as he is in the final year or two of his deal, I would think cutting him would save coin. Agree we could use that savings to sign St. Clair.

 

I really don't think we'll do a whole lot to upgrade the interior in FA, I would like to see us draft a G in the 3rd RD like Canfield. We also have Buenning who I think we'll get more of a look this offseason. You also got to expect Beekman will keep his job next year as he was better than expected and another offseason he should really improve by just knowing were he needs to be in terms of strength. I can see JA cutting Tait, Garza, Metcalf if he brings in Carey, resigns St. Clair, and Buenning is ready to go.

 

I just have no clue on Buenning. When it comes to him, I see a player we might have some hope for, but not one we plan around. I don't see much in FA for OG either, which is why I like the idea of re-signing St. Clair, drafting an OG and signing a legit starting RT.

 

I here you there, but w/ only 25 million or so to work with I'm not sure if we can squeeze a FA WR in. Maybe we can work it out were we can bring in a Clayton from Tampa or A. Bryant. Or if were confident DM can play FS and we move Vasher to nickel, we can use the Atogwe money on Housh?

 

First, I think Bryant is going to cost quite a bit after the year he had.

 

Second, I see no reason we couldn't sign all the players you mention AND a stud WR. Cut Tait, and I bet we save closer than not to $5m. That gives us around $30m. Carey isn't going to cost a ton. Not w/ so many other OTs in front of him. If you look at the list of FA OTs, he would likely rank in the 6-10 range. St. Clair won't cost much. The only player you mention who could cost is the S, and I am not sure his year one cap hit would be that great. Point is, while we talk about a number of players, I don't think any are that big, at least in terms contracts and SB.

 

W/ that said, while I do think we will be players in FA, I have far less confidence Angelo will be a player for a WR like TJ, and for me, none of the players we talked about would make as great of an impact as he.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Second, I see no reason we couldn't sign all the players you mention AND a stud WR. Cut Tait, and I bet we save closer than not to $5m. That gives us around $30m. Carey isn't going to cost a ton. Not w/ so many other OTs in front of him. If you look at the list of FA OTs, he would likely rank in the 6-10 range. St. Clair won't cost much. The only player you mention who could cost is the S, and I am not sure his year one cap hit would be that great. Point is, while we talk about a number of players, I don't think any are that big, at least in terms contracts and SB.

 

W/ that said, while I do think we will be players in FA, I have far less confidence Angelo will be a player for a WR like TJ, and for me, none of the players we talked about would make as great of an impact as he.

I read somewhere that his agent and the Dolphins have started talking and while he's probably worth $10 per, he'll likely sign for $8 per, due to the fact that he grew up in Miami and went to The U.

[nfoligno]

I read somewhere that his agent and the Dolphins have started talking and while he's probably worth $10 per, he'll likely sign for $8 per, due to the fact that he grew up in Miami and went to The U.

 

$10m per year? It's late, and maybe i have had one too many, but that sounds up there. So you think he is going to get a 7 year, $70m deal?

 

Hutchinson, the considered the best OG in the game, got a 7yr/$49m deal that averaged $7m per year, and that was considered a shattering deal.

 

Last year, the Jets signed Faneca to a deal that would average $8m, but was on the short side (4 years), and again, we are talking about someone considered among the elite.

 

I can't think of any big ticket OT signings of late, but I just can't see how Carey would average $10m per year. While you can argue OTs make more than OGs, I would argue OGs have been closing the gap. I do not think an above average OT will get a deal greater than the elite OGs. If Carey were the best available, who knows, but he is actually down the list, which is partly why I like him. OTs many/ most rank ahead of Carey who will be FAs this year include:

 

Jordan Gross, Carolina Panthers

Mark Tauscher, Green Bay Packers

Marvel Smith, Pittsburgh Steelers

Jahri Evans (restricted), New Orleans Saints

Jason Brown (restricted), Baltimore Ravens

Stacy Andrews, Cincinnati Bengals

Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville Jaguars

Vernon Carey, Miami Dolphins

 

You can argue Carey should be higher than some (I would) but he is not at the top, and not nearly in the same tier as Gross, or even Tauscher for that matter. W/ so many OTs on the market this year, no way Carey gets $10m per year. If he does, then I will take a pass. I like him, but not "that" much.

[azbearsfan]

You know, this pisses me off!!! Yes, Mike Brown is a step slower. But, he's clearly still our best safety, free or strong. I ask, who will we replace him with that's better? We already know about Daniel Manning, who IMHO should be allowed to continue to get better at nickel. Payne? The kid is a huge liability in coverage and although makes the occassional big hit, misses enough tackles to make me forget about those hits. Craig Steltz? Don't get me started. Brandon McGowen? Okay, now how is his health better than MB's? Worrell? Yeah right.

 

My brother is a Chargers fan and seriously believes they are bringing in Mike Brown. He knows about the loss of speed but doesn't care. He just wants a smart player back there that can make plays and is not a liability in coverage.

 

Does anybody else think that it's a just a coincidence that we has our worse defensive passing game during the only game that Mike Brown didn't play?

 

Mike Brown is one of my all-time favorite Bears. According to the players, he is the real leader in the locker room. Any fan that has watched us can see how he fires up our team. I don't care if he's slower, he still brings it.

 

If we had a real replacement on the roster, I would probably think differently. But, it's obvious that we don't.

 

 

I am a big Mike Brown fan too. Hell I played against him in high school.

 

But being our best safety is like being the tallest midget. I was really disappointed in his decline in coverage and as a leader. He sure didn't fire up the defense this year, especially in the last Green Bay game.

 

So I am on the fence about bringing him back.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

As for Tait, I don't know the numbers, but as I recall, we frontloaded a good bit of his deal, and as he is in the final year or two of his deal, I would think cutting him would save coin. Agree we could use that savings to sign St. Clair.

 

Below is some scribble, breaking down some contracts w/o having full details.

 

Looking at John Taits contract status at rotoworld, it looks like we can save 4.8 million. His signing bonus remaining looks to be 550,000.

 

3/6/2004: Signed a six-year, $33 million contract. The deal included a $14 million signing bonus. 2009: $4.8 million, 2010: Free Agent. Cap charge: $5.35 million (2009).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

Bears | Contract update: R. Garza

Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:51:01 -0800

 

Chicago Bears OL Roberto Garza's six-year contract extension included base salaries of $586,250 (2006), $691,250 (2007), $711,250 (2008), $711,250 (2009), $670,000 (2010) and $770,000 (2011).

 

I believe he also had a 4 million signing bonus. So cutting Garza probably won't save anything b/c if his SB is divided equally it would be about 610,000/year x 3 remaining = 1.83 mil - 711,000 = 1.12 cap charge. W/O full details, we can't see how much was front loaded.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terrence Metcalf:

from: thehuddle.com

 

The Bears solidified their offensive line situation when unrestricted free agent Terrence Metcalf agreed to terms last Friday on a six-year contract for $9 million with a signing bonus believed to be $2.5 million.

 

6 divided by 9 = 660,000 base (approx). Signing bonus 2.5 divided 6 = 240,000 (approx.) So cutting Metcalf will accelerate his SB to 720,000 minus the 660,000 base = cap charge of 60,000 approx.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adewale Ogunleye:

 

Signed in 2004 w/ 15 million SB. His Base is 4.8 million and his remaining SB 2.9 approx. = 1.9 savings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Outlook: Cut Tait and Ogunleye = 6.7 addition cap space, also cut Metcalf (-0.06) = 6.64 additional cap space

26 + 6.6 = 32.6 million , that can leave us with some decent FA scenerios.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

$10m per year? It's late, and maybe i have had one too many, but that sounds up there. So you think he is going to get a 7 year, $70m deal?

 

from sun-sentinial.com

 

Carey hopes free agency leads to a contract similar to the one another former UM alum, Eric Winston, received this season from the Texans. Winston, also a right tackle, reportedly received $30 million over five years, with $10 million guaranteed.

 

 

I think this is what Brianbear is referring to. Not 10/year, but 10 guaranteed over 5 years.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some recent RT contract signings:

David Stewart RT Tennessee Titans

6/27/2008: Signed a six-year, $38.9 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed, including a $6 million signing bonus. 2008: $1 million (+ $2 million roster bonus), 2009-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent

 

Sean Locklear T Seattle Seahawks

2/21/2008: Signed a five-year, $32 million contract. The deal includes $12 million in guarantees. 2008-2009: $1 million, 2010: $4.85 million, 2011: $5.6 million, 2012: $7.295 million, 2013: Free Agent

 

Flozell Adams T Dallas Cowboys

28/2008: Signed a six-year, $43.8 million contract. The deal contains $15 million in guarantees, including a $13 million signing bonus. 2009: $1 million, 2010: $5 million, 2011-2013: $5.1 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charges: $3.6 million (2009), $7.6 million (2010), $7.7 million (2011-2013).

 

Kwame Harris T Oakland Raiders

3/4/2008: Signed a three-year, $16.3 million contract. The deal includes a first-year roster bonus of $1.5 million and $2.3 million in likely to be earned incentives. 2009: $2 million (+ $6 million roster bonus), 2010: Under Contract, 2011: Free Agent

 

 

Willie Anderson T Baltimore Ravens

8/4/2008: Signed a three-year, $11 million contract. The deal contains $3.5 million guaranteed, including a $1.67 million signing bonus. 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $4 million, 2011: Free Agent

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

$10m per year? It's late, and maybe i have had one too many, but that sounds up there. So you think he is going to get a 7 year, $70m deal?

 

Hutchinson, the considered the best OG in the game, got a 7yr/$49m deal that averaged $7m per year, and that was considered a shattering deal.

 

Last year, the Jets signed Faneca to a deal that would average $8m, but was on the short side (4 years), and again, we are talking about someone considered among the elite.

 

I can't think of any big ticket OT signings of late, but I just can't see how Carey would average $10m per year. While you can argue OTs make more than OGs, I would argue OGs have been closing the gap. I do not think an above average OT will get a deal greater than the elite OGs. If Carey were the best available, who knows, but he is actually down the list, which is partly why I like him. OTs many/ most rank ahead of Carey who will be FAs this year include:

 

Jordan Gross, Carolina Panthers

Mark Tauscher, Green Bay Packers

Marvel Smith, Pittsburgh Steelers

Jahri Evans (restricted), New Orleans Saints

Jason Brown (restricted), Baltimore Ravens

Stacy Andrews, Cincinnati Bengals

Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville Jaguars

Vernon Carey, Miami Dolphins

 

You can argue Carey should be higher than some (I would) but he is not at the top, and not nearly in the same tier as Gross, or even Tauscher for that matter. W/ so many OTs on the market this year, no way Carey gets $10m per year. If he does, then I will take a pass. I like him, but not "that" much.

Okay, I was just getting it from nfldraftscout.com.

 

Since you can't copy and paste from there, I'll type the quote:

 

"1/14/09- RT Vernon Carey made a seamless transition from the left to right side and is one of the Dolphins' five key free agents that they need to make a decision on. Carey, a Miami native, may give the team a hometown discount, but not too much. He could command a $10 million-per-year deal because of the scarcity of talent at the position".

[akshaz]

I am a big Mike Brown fan too. Hell I played against him in high school.

 

But being our best safety is like being the tallest midget. I was really disappointed in his decline in coverage and as a leader. He sure didn't fire up the defense this year, especially in the last Green Bay game.

 

So I am on the fence about bringing him back.

 

Okay. So what's the alternative? Even with your "smallest midget" point, we'll still have to play someone who's obviously not as good. Are we going to draft/sign a bunch of FA safeties? I don't think so. If we let MB go, more than likely, JA and Lovie will attempt to fill that slot with someone already on the roster. Whoever they chose, they didn't have a good year last year.

 

You just don't let your best player at any position go. I don't care if he's lost 5 steps. If he's our best safety, and he is, then we need to keep him. The other guys can be easily replaced. I don't think there's anyone on this board who would say that for Mike Brown.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Okay. So what's the alternative? Even with your "smallest midget" point, we'll still have to play someone who's obviously not as good. Are we going to draft/sign a bunch of FA safeties? I don't think so. If we let MB go, more than likely, JA and Lovie will attempt to fill that slot with someone already on the roster. Whoever they chose, they didn't have a good year last year.

 

You just don't let your best player at any position go. I don't care if he's lost 5 steps. If he's our best safety, and he is, then we need to keep him. The other guys can be easily replaced. I don't think there's anyone on this board who would say that for Mike Brown.

Angelo said in the interview in this thread that Brown won't be back if it interferes with Manning's playing time. There's your man.

[akshaz]

Angelo said in the interview in this thread that Brown won't be back if it interferes with Manning's playing time. There's your man.

 

Okay. Do you remember the countless Daniel Mannning experiments at safety? Obviously Angelo doesn't. I guess 2008 didn't happen. We can look forward to countless breakdowns in coverage and other mental lapses if he's back there with Payne/Steltz.

 

What puzzles me is that Manning has looked his best once he got adjusted to the nickel slot. Why not simply let this guy develop at that position?

 

Oh, I forgot. We don't develop players.

[azbearsfan]

Okay. Do you remember the countless Daniel Mannning experiments at safety? Obviously Angelo doesn't. I guess 2008 didn't happen. We can look forward to countless breakdowns in coverage and other mental lapses if he's back there with Payne/Steltz.

 

What puzzles me is that Manning has looked his best once he got adjusted to the nickel slot. Why not simply let this guy develop at that position?

 

Oh, I forgot. We don't develop players.

 

 

We had countless breakdowns in coverage with Mike Brown here this year. So what is the difference? When I watched him this year, Brown was making rookie mistakes in coverage. To me it wasn't his brain, he just couldn't physically get it done anymore.

[AZ54]

We had countless breakdowns in coverage with Mike Brown here this year. So what is the difference? When I watched him this year, Brown was making rookie mistakes in coverage. To me it wasn't his brain, he just couldn't physically get it done anymore.

 

 

It is interesting how Mike Brown gets a pass for the huge mistake he made in the Atlanta game, among others. Then there's the philosophy that he is so valuable because he helps line everyone up. Well he didn't line up the CB on that one play and that was an easy call to make.