Enough of Lovie after vick endorsement

[madlithuanian]

That's just a sad list no matter how you slice it...

 

Here's some more courtesy of PFT...

 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/08/...police-blotter/

[jason]

I looked through your list, and excluded all the DUI/DWI/possession charges. In my opinion, those don't even come close to what Vick did. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise, to be quite honest. As for the rest...

 

Check this out. Most of from the first few months of 2008. You are making it seem like everything I'm talking about happened under Tags but not under Goodell.

 

4/26/2008 Kalvin Pearson Detroit S_ Arrested, charged with felony aggravated battery on a pregnant woman and domestic battery by strangulation in Florida.

If he did what he is accused of, then he deserves to be kicked out of the league forever. Fine with me. However, I can't find anything that shows he has been convicted.

4/21/2008 Rocky Bernard Seattle DL Arrested, charged with misdemeanor charge of domestic violence assault. Police said he struck ex-girlfriend at nightclub.

Bernard was suspended and fined a hefty amount for simply being charged. And, if you check out this link, you'll find an incredible amount of suspicious information that would lead me to believe that the person charging him with the crime is lying.

4/11/2008 Reagan Mauia Miami FB Charged with punching man in the face and knocking him out in a restaurant parking lot in Florida.

I can't find information on whether or not he's been convicted. On the other hand, he's out of the league.

 

3/31/2008 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR Charged with assault and disorderly conduct after police said he punched man in the head and threw beer bottle threw car window. Released by team same week.

Henry is a special case entirely, and despite the fact that he's been "innocent" numerous times, this is most obvious case of "where there is smoke there is fire". This guy should be kicked out of the league. However, it should be known that he hasn't been convicted of anything on par with the mass dog slaughter with which Vick is associated.

 

3/19/2008 Cedrick Wilson Pittsburgh WR Arrested and charged with simple assault, harrassment and disorderly conduct after allegedly hitting his former girlfriend in the face at bar. Team terminated his contract the next morning.

Moot point - he's out of the league and possibly being black-balled by the teams.

 

3/8/2008 James Harrison Pittsburgh LB Arrested on charges of simple assault and criminal mischief after police said he broke down a bedroom door at girlfriend's home after she locked herself in. Dropped after alleged victim decided not to pursue case and Harrison completed anger management counseling.

This charge was dropped. I can't know for sure, but I would suspect that the evidence was weak, and the accuser didn't want to continue with the situation. Maybe there was a buyout. Who knows? This one is fishy.

 

2/24/2008 Bryant McKinnie Minnesota OT Arrested and charged with aggravated battery, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest after street brawl outside Miami club. June 2 trial date

He was suspended four games, and I think that was about right, maaaybe a little weak.

 

2/19/2008 Fabian Washington Oakland CB Arrested on domestic battery charge in Florida. Girlfriend had red marks on her neck, according to a report. Deferred prosecution, 26-week intervention program.

Suspended for one game, on the allegation alone. Reports differ, and the case has not been resolved. As of now, Washington has not been convicted.

 

2/18/2008 Jerome Mathis Houston WR Arrested on charge of choking his common-law wife in Manvel, Texas.

He was never convicted, and charges have since been dropped, and he is out of the NFL. Moot point.

 

2/13/2008 Antonio Pierce N.Y. Giants LB Summons issued for charge of neglecting one of his pit pulls. Pleaded guilty, $1,300 fine

Neglect is slightly weaker than mass torture and murder of multiple animals...not to mention the fact that we don't know what "neglect" is in this case. Perhaps it's like the 400lb woman with 28 cats we see on the TV shows? Maybe that kind of neglect. Nonetheless, not as bad as Vick.

 

1/11/2008 Daniel Graham Denver TE Arrested on suspicion of criminal mischief and

harassment of former girlfriend after argument about sale of their home. Dropped the next week

This case is pathetically weak, and not even comparable. He's not even being charge for hitting the bed.

 

Scott, who was arrested around 3:30 p.m., was booked into Hennepin County jail on one count of assault, one count of assault/domestic and one count of malicious punishment of a child. A news release from the Eden Prairie police said the "case is currently under investigation" and a spokeswoman for the department said no further information would be made available Wednesday.

Stayed in jail a while, case unresolved, and he's out of the league. Moot point.

 

Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Ahmad Brooks has been accused of punching a Florence woman in the left eye. Brooks case will be heard June 6..

The case goes to court in June. If he's convicted, and unpunished, then you'll have a point. But you know Goodell is going to hammer his ass if the conviction happens.

 

Charles Grant DE for The New Orleans Saints..Charged with Manslaughter..For his involvement in a fight outside a nightclub in Feb. that resulted in someone shooting and killing a pregnant woman.

Grant says he was not a participant, and the case hasn't gone to court yet. NO conviction yet.

 

ROCKY MOUNT, N.C. -- Arizona Cardinals running back J.J. Arrington was among five people arrested after a fight at a nightclub in North Carolina.

Can't find information on a conviction of this one.

 

#37 Geoffrey Pope...New York Giants CB

Arrested in Detroit after allegedly hitting a man over the head with a champagne bottle.

Brandon Marshall....

He was never even charged.

 

Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall was arrested March 6 on a misdemeanor battery charge, his third arrest in 12 months and second involving a domestic dispute.

See my comments about Chris Henry.

 

...New England Patriot defensive back..Willie Andrews, 24....

A New England Patriots defensive back is accused of pointing a gun at his fiancee's head in Mansfield on Monday after she accused him of cheating on her.

Charges were dropped; he was released by the team, and he is out of the league anyway.

 

I can keep going. But, I think you get the point. Now how many of these guys have been suspended? A few. How many have lost everything and faced lifetime bans? Zero. There are some serious charges on this list.

To suggest that Roger Goodell has made everything all nice and even is not accurate.

 

Where's the evidence of inequality? The only two you have provided that are even debateable are Chris Henry and Brandon Marshall...and even their cases are more arrested/charged than convicted.

 

Sorry, but your examples are severely lacking.

[BearSox]

You are a joke. Your race-baiting is crazy, silly, nonsense. Giving a human being a second chance in life has nothing to do with race or skin color you idiot.

 

I don't condone what Vick has done. Who can? But, after losing his freedom, his career and almost all of his assets, don't you think he has paid his debt to society? What punishment will be enough to quench your thirst for revenge? There are murderers of PEOPLE who don't have to pay the cost he has paid. There are people roaming our country who have destroyed lives of thousands and won't spend a day in jail. Yet, you are all lathered up in defense of dogs.

 

I just don't understand the PETA-type folks who love animals far more than people. They are more kind and show more love and forgiveness to a freakin' chihuahua than they would their fellow man.

 

Although he would have clearly paid his debt to society, as expressed by the courts, I know you would prefer to keep him down and punish him over and over again. I guess it's your skin color. (Tongue in cheek, to underline a point.)

I'll ignore the part about you calling me a racist, even if it was "tongue in cheek."

 

As for the race part, I get the feeling that Lovie is one of those people who feel blacks and minorities need extra help in life, etc. I don't know, I could be wrong. I'm not saying he's racist or even if that's bad for him to look out for people of his race. Personally, I don't care what color you are as long as you are a decent human being.

 

Also, I like how you are calling me a race baiter. That's just funny. If you want to see some real race baiters, why don't you look at Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton?

 

As for Vick paying his dues, puh-lease. Anyone else would have gotten a much longer jail term, but because he's Michael Vick, he was able to get a deal for practically 1 year. However, he does deserve a second chance, but first he has to prove that he has turned his life around. Just because he spent some time in jail doesn't mean he's a new person.

 

Personally, for me, to allow him back in the NFL, he would have to spend 2 years out proving he is worty of being reinstated. He can spend those two years in the UFL with no incidents, and NFL Teams getting reviews from teammates and coaches, as well as him doing plenty of voluntery charity work and donations.

 

Also, please don't compare me to PETA. I hate those idiots with a passion. They have the right idea, but just have no idea how to spread it. However, all this don't eat meat, and no testing on animals is just stupid. First, meat is delishous, part of the food chain, and I doubt any Peta people get upset about wolves in the wild killing little bunnies and eating them. Also, for the slaughtering part, it should be done the quickest way possible, no matter how nasty it may look. Also, testing on small animals is unfortunate, but it is a necessary thing to do to find out if new important products are safe. A human life is ALWAYS more important than an animals... Well, I guess depending on the human.

[lemonej]

Iam the owner of two dogs and have owned dogs all my adult life.Lovie's speaking about Vick is totally football related and the fact that some one on this board is insinuating that Lovie is doing something based on his skin color when he is in an interracial marriage is just a lack of thinking things all the way through.Bearsox be advised that if you are going to continue to post here there are African Americans like myself who take exception to someone refering to THE BEARS HEAD COACH by his skin color.If he doesn't do his job he should be launched without regards to his ethnicity.Herm Edwards sucked in KC and Romeo Crennel sucked in Cleveland both deserved to lose their jobs and I could careless if the two "Brothas" lost their jobs.This board is about the Bears and football nothing else.

[BearSox]

Iam the owner of two dogs and have owned dogs all my adult life.Lovie's speaking about Vick is totally football related and the fact that some one on this board is insinuating that Lovie is doing something based on his skin color when he is in an interracial marriage is just a lack of thinking things all the way through.Bearsox be advised that if you are going to continue to post here there are African Americans like myself who take exception to someone refering to THE BEARS HEAD COACH by his skin color.If he doesn't do his job he should be launched without regards to his ethnicity.Herm Edwards sucked in KC and Romeo Crennel sucked in Cleveland both deserved to lose their jobs and I could careless if the two "Brothas" lost their jobs.This board is about the Bears and football nothing else.

whoa whoa whoa, where is this coming from? Where in the world did I ever say Lovie is a racist? I know he is married to a white woman, so what? But that doesn't mean he can't think black people are still being "oppressed." Also, where did I ever refer to Lovie as a "brotha" or ever strictly refer to him by only his skin color? He's black, we get it. I really don't care, as long as he gets the job done. However, historically, minorities have been known to look after each other, and I just feel if Vick was white, he wouldn't be getting all the endorsements by Lovie. He is in no way an Al Sharpton, but that doesn't mean he doesn't share some similar trains of thought.

 

However, this is getting pretty ridiculous and I regret bringing it up. It was a simple observation by me, and now I'm a racist and race baiter, which is complete bull.

 

Lets just go back to the Bears and why or why not Vick would make sense.

[azbearsfan]

I'll ignore the part about you calling me a racist, even if it was "tongue in cheek."

 

As for the race part, I get the feeling that Lovie is one of those people who feel blacks and minorities need extra help in life, etc. I don't know, I could be wrong. I'm not saying he's racist or even if that's bad for him to look out for people of his race. Personally, I don't care what color you are as long as you are a decent human being.

 

Also, I like how you are calling me a race baiter. That's just funny. If you want to see some real race baiters, why don't you look at Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton?

 

As for Vick paying his dues, puh-lease. Anyone else would have gotten a much longer jail term, but because he's Michael Vick, he was able to get a deal for practically 1 year. However, he does deserve a second chance, but first he has to prove that he has turned his life around. Just because he spent some time in jail doesn't mean he's a new person.

 

Personally, for me, to allow him back in the NFL, he would have to spend 2 years out proving he is worty of being reinstated. He can spend those two years in the UFL with no incidents, and NFL Teams getting reviews from teammates and coaches, as well as him doing plenty of voluntery charity work and donations.

 

Also, please don't compare me to PETA. I hate those idiots with a passion. They have the right idea, but just have no idea how to spread it. However, all this don't eat meat, and no testing on animals is just stupid. First, meat is delishous, part of the food chain, and I doubt any Peta people get upset about wolves in the wild killing little bunnies and eating them. Also, for the slaughtering part, it should be done the quickest way possible, no matter how nasty it may look. Also, testing on small animals is unfortunate, but it is a necessary thing to do to find out if new important products are safe. A human life is ALWAYS more important than an animals... Well, I guess depending on the human.

 

 

You get the feeling he thinks blacks and minorities need extra help???? From what exactly??? You are walking a very fine line here and you would be well served to shut it down.

 

I get that you are a high school senior so you have it all figured out, but your immaturity is speaking volumes here.

[azbearsfan]

whoa whoa whoa, where is this coming from? Where in the world did I ever say Lovie is a racist? I know he is married to a white woman, so what? But that doesn't mean he can't think black people are still being "oppressed." Also, where did I ever refer to Lovie as a "brotha" or ever strictly refer to him by only his skin color? He's black, we get it. I really don't care, as long as he gets the job done. However, historically, minorities have been known to look after each other, and I just feel if Vick was white, he wouldn't be getting all the endorsements by Lovie. He is in no way an Al Sharpton, but that doesn't mean he doesn't share some similar trains of thought.

 

However, this is getting pretty ridiculous and I regret bringing it up. It was a simple observation by me, and now I'm a racist and race baiter, which is complete bull.

 

Lets just go back to the Bears and why or why not Vick would make sense.

 

 

The problem is you have no basis for that conclusion other than ignorance. Where do you get he thinks blacks are still being oppressed, other than from your "observation"? What has Lovie ever done for you to think that if Vick was white he wouldn't say the same things? Nothing.

 

Its pretty obvious you have some stereotypical views of blacks and minorities in general.

[nfoligno]

Thanks for the research Jason. I would point out to you that he believes a DWI is worse than what Vick did. His reasoning is a DWI could result in hurting another humans life, and thus is worse than actually destoying the life of a non-animal. I just disagree w/ this idea, though by no means accepting DWIs. W/ that said, I was under the believe that those who were nailed for DWIs were also getting punished by the league, especially and hit w/ multiple.

 

As for the rest, good checking, and it supports my initial thought. He lists many arrests, but in only rare situations does Goddell drop the hammer w/o a conviction. He does at times w/ players who have a serious history (PacMan). Players like that are essentially on double secret probation, and simply being at a bar is enough to get nailed. But for others who do not have the history, he usually speaks w/ the player and if the players say they are innocent, then Goddell waits for the trial. Then he drops the hammer:)

 

I looked through your list, and excluded all the DUI/DWI/possession charges. In my opinion, those don't even come close to what Vick did. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise, to be quite honest. As for the rest...

 

 

 

Where's the evidence of inequality? The only two you have provided that are even debateable are Chris Henry and Brandon Marshall...and even their cases are more arrested/charged than convicted.

 

Sorry, but your examples are severely lacking.

[nfoligno]

I know you don't want your age discussed, so I will leave that alone, but you really do have to understand time and place. Some here may actually agree w/ your thoughts. Your comments may actually have truth to them. Hell, flat out you could be right. But you know what? It doesn't matter.

 

The board is simply not a proper place to even discuss race issues. I realize many people can have pleasant discussions about race, but this is simply not the place. Crap, even in trying to explain why, I have had to delete my own comments 4 times as I do not want them taken wrong, nor do I want to create another discussion. Just understand, the point is you are touching off on a subject that simply has no chance to lead to anything but upset posters. Hell, you even drop the names of Sharpton and Jackson, and while you may have a point on them today, others would point out how they have done more before you were born then you are likely to do in your life, and thus you might want to offer a touch of respect for past accomplishments rather than essentially calling them racists for recent years.

 

I'll ignore the part about you calling me a racist, even if it was "tongue in cheek."

 

As for the race part, I get the feeling that Lovie is one of those people who feel blacks and minorities need extra help in life, etc. I don't know, I could be wrong. I'm not saying he's racist or even if that's bad for him to look out for people of his race. Personally, I don't care what color you are as long as you are a decent human being.

 

Also, I like how you are calling me a race baiter. That's just funny. If you want to see some real race baiters, why don't you look at Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton?

 

As for Vick paying his dues, puh-lease. Anyone else would have gotten a much longer jail term, but because he's Michael Vick, he was able to get a deal for practically 1 year. However, he does deserve a second chance, but first he has to prove that he has turned his life around. Just because he spent some time in jail doesn't mean he's a new person.

 

Personally, for me, to allow him back in the NFL, he would have to spend 2 years out proving he is worty of being reinstated. He can spend those two years in the UFL with no incidents, and NFL Teams getting reviews from teammates and coaches, as well as him doing plenty of voluntery charity work and donations.

 

Also, please don't compare me to PETA. I hate those idiots with a passion. They have the right idea, but just have no idea how to spread it. However, all this don't eat meat, and no testing on animals is just stupid. First, meat is delishous, part of the food chain, and I doubt any Peta people get upset about wolves in the wild killing little bunnies and eating them. Also, for the slaughtering part, it should be done the quickest way possible, no matter how nasty it may look. Also, testing on small animals is unfortunate, but it is a necessary thing to do to find out if new important products are safe. A human life is ALWAYS more important than an animals... Well, I guess depending on the human.

[nfoligno]

Just for the record, and it may not actually make you feel better, but I do not think anyone here thinks you are a racist or a race baiter. At the same time, i think what you lack is understanding that some discussions are not for an internet message board. If you are w/ some close friends, who you know very well, and who know you very well, and you want to have a discussion about race, religion or any other subject many people are very passionate about, great. But here, you do not know the other posters, and they do not know you. Race is simply not a subject you bring up w/ strangers, and while we may all be bear fans, we are in non-football life, basically strangers.

 

So it isn't that anyone thinks you are a racist or whatever, but simply that you don't realize those subjects okay to discuss, and those to avoid at all costs. This is one you avoid.

 

For the record, based on some of the other comments, I am wondering if animal abuse is also one to avoid. This is NOT about you. Just looking like there are some posters very passionate on one side of the fense or the other on the issue, which begs the question of the properness of the subject. Properness? Is that even a word?

 

whoa whoa whoa, where is this coming from? Where in the world did I ever say Lovie is a racist? I know he is married to a white woman, so what? But that doesn't mean he can't think black people are still being "oppressed." Also, where did I ever refer to Lovie as a "brotha" or ever strictly refer to him by only his skin color? He's black, we get it. I really don't care, as long as he gets the job done. However, historically, minorities have been known to look after each other, and I just feel if Vick was white, he wouldn't be getting all the endorsements by Lovie. He is in no way an Al Sharpton, but that doesn't mean he doesn't share some similar trains of thought.

 

However, this is getting pretty ridiculous and I regret bringing it up. It was a simple observation by me, and now I'm a racist and race baiter, which is complete bull.

 

Lets just go back to the Bears and why or why not Vick would make sense.

[Connorbear]

whoa whoa whoa, where is this coming from? Where in the world did I ever say Lovie is a racist? I know he is married to a white woman, so what? But that doesn't mean he can't think black people are still being "oppressed." Also, where did I ever refer to Lovie as a "brotha" or ever strictly refer to him by only his skin color? He's black, we get it. I really don't care, as long as he gets the job done. However, historically, minorities have been known to look after each other, and I just feel if Vick was white, he wouldn't be getting all the endorsements by Lovie. He is in no way an Al Sharpton, but that doesn't mean he doesn't share some similar trains of thought.

 

However, this is getting pretty ridiculous and I regret bringing it up. It was a simple observation by me, and now I'm a racist and race baiter, which is complete bull.

 

Lets just go back to the Bears and why or why not Vick would make sense.

This is why I said it was unfortunate that you brought race into the discussion. No matter what your intentions, no matter what you say, it always can be mis-interpreted and look bad.

 

Peace

[selection7]

I would be beyond surprised if we end up with Vick. No chance.

 

Unlike most of those other incidents discussed about other players, what Vick did was premeditated and over and over again. It's not like that first guy was convicted of beating his pregnant girlfriend over and over again over several years (in fact the charges were dropped). If Vick had an understanding of the wrong-ness of causing suffering to animals, what he did was some seriously, seriously evil stuff. Throwing beer bottles and street fights don't compare.

 

Having said that, believe it or not, I'm firmly on the side of animals are not humans and am often very saddened at the cruelty our fellow man will shell out at other humans one moment while crying "animal abuse!" the next. I'm more interested in whether Vick has a depraved thought process; that's a less debatable subject than how bad is animal cruelty. Also, has any Goodell-era player gone to prison for a year or more and come back to the NFL? If not, then I might as well presume that Vick being blackballed is fair.

[azbearsfan]

I agree with nfo. I think the animal cruelty issue is not one for the boards. The whole cruelty to men vs animals has tons of grey area that is probably not worth getting into.

[akshaz]

Thanks for the research Jason. I would point out to you that he believes a DWI is worse than what Vick did. His reasoning is a DWI could result in hurting another humans life, and thus is worse than actually destoying the life of a non-animal. I just disagree w/ this idea, though by no means accepting DWIs. W/ that said, I was under the believe that those who were nailed for DWIs were also getting punished by the league, especially and hit w/ multiple.

 

As for the rest, good checking, and it supports my initial thought. He lists many arrests, but in only rare situations does Goddell drop the hammer w/o a conviction. He does at times w/ players who have a serious history (PacMan). Players like that are essentially on double secret probation, and simply being at a bar is enough to get nailed. But for others who do not have the history, he usually speaks w/ the player and if the players say they are innocent, then Goddell waits for the trial. Then he drops the hammer:)

 

You are correct. I believe that getting hammered and then behind a wheel is worse than dog fighting because of the extremely high margin for error in harming another human being. However, it looks like Roger Goodell agrees with you because those guys with DUIs very seldom get more than a slap on the wrist. I would also say that assault/battery charges (fighting humans), especially on a child or woman is worse than dogfighting. Not to excuse or devalue the seriousness of what Vick has done. Again, personally I value human life more than dog/animal life.

 

On the other hand, Mike Vick was "suspended indefinitely" on the charges/accusations alone. He was thrown out of the league way before the courts had their say. So, your point on Goodell dropping the hammer w/o a conviction wasn't the case for Vick.

[akshaz]

I looked through your list, and excluded all the DUI/DWI/possession charges. In my opinion, those don't even come close to what Vick did. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise, to be quite honest. As for the rest...

 

 

 

Where's the evidence of inequality? The only two you have provided that are even debateable are Chris Henry and Brandon Marshall...and even their cases are more arrested/charged than convicted.

 

Sorry, but your examples are severely lacking.

 

You have a lot of people on there that were "blackballed" or out of the league because they were not signed. However, none of these guys ever got a lifetime ban. I guess the charges like battery of a pregnant woman, knocking a man unconscious, punching another man's girlfriend in the face, three choking women cases, holding a half-pound of weed, beating up a kid, starting a fight where a pregnant woman dies, killing a man just leaving work......and those types of examples aren't really "debateable" in your book and just "don't even come close" to dogfighting.

 

All of these case, except the weed case, involves harming another human. Suffice it to say that we just disagree on what should be considered serious.

[nfoligno]

One point I think you are missing. If a player is out of the league, then there is no reason for Goddell to hand down a punishment. If those players were signed to a team, they would likely then be dealt w/. In fact, I would argue that a big part of why they were not re-signed was likely the expectation they would be hit by Goddell, and thus teams simply took a pass.

 

I do not think there is an issue of fans minimizing how bad human against human events are. In fact, i think there is in fact a greater push for greater punishment across the board.

 

You have a lot of people on there that were "blackballed" or out of the league because they were not signed. However, none of these guys ever got a lifetime ban. I guess the charges like battery of a pregnant woman, knocking a man unconscious, punching another man's girlfriend in the face, three choking women cases, holding a half-pound of weed, beating up a kid, starting a fight where a pregnant woman dies, killing a man just leaving work......and those types of examples aren't really "debateable" in your book and just "don't even come close" to dogfighting.

 

All of these case, except the weed case, involves harming another human. Suffice it to say that we just disagree on what should be considered serious.

[madlithuanian]

Wow! You're a regular Anthony Pelicano! Good sluethin'!

 

I looked through your list, and excluded all the DUI/DWI/possession charges. In my opinion, those don't even come close to what Vick did. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise, to be quite honest. As for the rest...

 

 

 

Where's the evidence of inequality? The only two you have provided that are even debateable are Chris Henry and Brandon Marshall...and even their cases are more arrested/charged than convicted.

 

Sorry, but your examples are severely lacking.

[nfoligno]

On the other hand, Mike Vick was "suspended indefinitely" on the charges/accusations alone. He was thrown out of the league way before the courts had their say. So, your point on Goodell dropping the hammer w/o a conviction wasn't the case for Vick.

 

I think it likely comes down to the amount of evidence against a person. In many of the human v human issues, it is one person's word against another, and thus there may be a greater need for waiting for the issue to play out. On the other hand, as w/ some other situations, the evidence is such that, while a trial may still be necessary for legal purposes, it is sufficient for league punishment.

 

Also, specifically about Vick, even after the charges came out, was there not a time when Goddell did give Vick the benefit of doubt? I seem to recall Vick meeting w/ Goddell and telling him he was not a part of the fights at all, and Goddell took him at his word and handed down zero punishment. I think that was in the offseason, was it not. But before long, the evidence (which was public due to the celebrity status of Vick) was so over-whelming that Goddell knew he had been lied to, and smacked Vick down for it.

[madlithuanian]

As I mentioned earlier...there is an element of premeditation. Most folks that get behind the wheel while intoxiated do not have any desire or intention of hurting someone. We all know the reality is that they could, but the intention isn't there. However, dog fighting in the capacity we are aware of from the Vick case is about as planned as it gets...

 

I think that is behind much of the outcry...

 

You are correct. I believe that getting hammered and then behind a wheel is worse than dog fighting because of the extremely high margin for error in harming another human being. However, it looks like Roger Goodell agrees with you because those guys with DUIs very seldom get more than a slap on the wrist. I would also say that assault/battery charges (fighting humans), especially on a child or woman is worse than dogfighting. Not to excuse or devalue the seriousness of what Vick has done. Again, personally I value human life more than dog/animal life.

 

On the other hand, Mike Vick was "suspended indefinitely" on the charges/accusations alone. He was thrown out of the league way before the courts had their say. So, your point on Goodell dropping the hammer w/o a conviction wasn't the case for Vick.

[selection7]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. People without character or self-control who weren't raised right can do some pretty horrible stuff when they get angry. But unless Vick feels (something along the lines of) that dogs have no soul and therefore their sufferering and killing is no different than the suffering of ant, for example, then he would have had to summon up a great deal of evil to enslave and torture with such clearheaded intention for years and years. I absolutely agree that such a person is more depraved than someone who beats people up...possibly even murder if it's truly a crime of passion. Keep in mind that last statement makes no comment about which crime is worse...just which perpetrator is more depraved.

 

According to a recent article, apparently Vick thinks he'll get paid as much as 10mil a year. My guess is that the PR would be so bad that no team will really even want him, but ultimately for a small fraction of that salary, some team will pick him up with the hope that after being on the roster for a year or two the public (and their fans) will get used to the idea and calm down.

 

Things he has going against him now that he didn't before:

---now everyone knows he's not a high character guy

---he's been out of the NFL for a year

---horrible, horrible PR issues

 

As I mentioned earlier...there is an element of premeditation. Most folks that get behind the wheel while intoxiated do not have any desire or intention of hurting someone. We all know the reality is that they could, but the intention isn't there. However, dog fighting in the capacity we are aware of from the Vick case is about as planned as it gets...

 

I think that is behind much of the outcry...

[jason]

You have a lot of people on there that were "blackballed" or out of the league because they were not signed. However, none of these guys ever got a lifetime ban. I guess the charges like battery of a pregnant woman, knocking a man unconscious, punching another man's girlfriend in the face, three choking women cases, holding a half-pound of weed, beating up a kid, starting a fight where a pregnant woman dies, killing a man just leaving work......and those types of examples aren't really "debateable" in your book and just "don't even come close" to dogfighting.

 

All of these case, except the weed case, involves harming another human. Suffice it to say that we just disagree on what should be considered serious.

 

First and foremost, you'd be well served to check out each case you listed. In your brief paragraph above I can tell you haven't looked into the details of the cases. Having said that, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, but are you trying to tell me that someone being charged with something is worse than someone being convicted with mass torture and slaughter of dogs? If so, I recommend checking out the 5th and 6th Amendments to find out why your point of view doesn't fly with the U.S. Justice System.

[adam]

I heard Vick was going to the new UFL. I doubt the Bears would ever pick him up regardless of the potential he has. Just too much baggage. The Bears let Tank and Benson walk due to their issues, and Vick's were pretty bad, so I doubt the Bears would even consider him.

[akshaz]

But unless Vick feels (something along the lines of) that dogs have no soul and therefore their sufferering and killing is no different than the suffering of ant, for example, then he would have had to summon up a great deal of evil to enslave and torture with such clearheaded intention for years and years. I absolutely agree that such a person is more depraved than someone who beats people up...possibly even murder if it's truly a crime of passion. Keep in mind that last statement makes no comment about which crime is worse...just which perpetrator is more depraved.

 

Do you feel the same way about chicken fighters? Bullfighters? Hunting (for sport)? Circuses? Mice-feeding to snakes? Goldfish feeding to pet oscars, sharks and piranhas? (the latter examples for entertainment, not feeding, purposes)

 

There are a lot of people who would argue that what Vick has done is no worse than some of the above examples. What say you? Are dog lives more important than these other animals?

['TD']

Do you feel the same way about chicken fighters? Bullfighters? Hunting (for sport)? Circuses? Mice-feeding to snakes? Goldfish feeding to pet oscars, sharks and piranhas? (the latter examples for entertainment, not feeding, purposes)

 

There are a lot of people who would argue that what Vick has done is no worse than some of the above examples. What say you? Are dog lives more important than these other animals?

 

I take it you're not a dog man, just kiddin.

 

I'm not going to get into the morality of dog fighting.

 

I think you just need to look at it from the NFL's side. They promoted Vick heavily to sell their product much like they do with Brady and Manning. Vick benefited from it and got extra endorsements. He broke the law and served major time due to this. This embarrassed the NFL and tainted Vick's name to almost an OJ Simpson like shadow.

 

They have no obligation to let him back in their company just like the it's a dell dude didn't get hired after he dealt with his issues. The company itself also does not benefit either by Vick's return. It's doing quite well without him.

 

Personally, I could care less what happens to him as long as he's not a Bear. He never was a good QB, he was just highly mobile. You don't win championships with a QB that can only run. Look at how much better the WR's he had looked once they got a new, rookie even, QB this year.

[Mongo3451]

Do you feel the same way about chicken fighters? Bullfighters? Hunting (for sport)? Circuses? Mice-feeding to snakes? Goldfish feeding to pet oscars, sharks and piranhas? (the latter examples for entertainment, not feeding, purposes)

 

There are a lot of people who would argue that what Vick has done is no worse than some of the above examples. What say you? Are dog lives more important than these other animals?

 

I get what you are saying, but in the case of dog fighting, the descision was made for Vick years ago.(illegal) I would say yes to your question about dogs, as I have a more than obvious bias. A good dog would never harm it's human family.