Word on Martz

[nfoligno]

I have a friend who is both a bears fan and in the sports media. He is definitely an insider, at least in so far as media guys go. He sent us some comments about Martz. For the record, he has in the past been a Martz advocate, so he is not biased on this.

 

- Martz was told during the game to run the ball more but he refused. Lovie has since "read Martz the riot act, both about the play calling and ignoring Lovie's instructions in game. Some around Halas are saying that if things don't change, Martz could actually be fired in the bye week.

 

Wow. If true, that is really shocking. While I still have a hard time believing we would fire Martz mid-season (a) if it is true Martz is blowing off Lovie during the game, it is far more possible and ( despite the negatives mentioned, that we have other assistants with experience may give the team confidence to pull the trigger.

 

Personally, I think Martz will in fact again change and run the ball. We saw him do it last year. We will see it again this year.

 

- Another problem he pointed out was the blocking, but a bit different from the normal talk. He said there has been an issue of the OL blocking for a 5 step drop and Cutler dropping 7 (this is just an example). I was not clear from the way he talked about it (in email) whether the issue is Cutler simply dropping outside the blocking scheme, the OL calling for blocking scheme that differs from the offensive playcall, or what. I'll follow up with him.

 

Anyway, I am not saying all of the above is fact. So take it for what you will, but as said, he is in sports media, and while now in Dallas, used to be located in Chicago and still has many ties there.

[madlithuanian]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm going on the assumption it's all true...

 

And I give huge credit to Smith for trying to reign him in. And a huge middle finger for Martz n' Fartz... My frinds in SF, who was familiar w/ the Martz routine is not surprised in the least over the problems we're having. You simply can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

The wrist had been slapped. We'll see more runs, then at a crucial moment in the season, he will revert and all will be lost.

 

 

I have a friend who is both a bears fan and in the sports media. He is definitely an insider, at least in so far as media guys go. He sent us some comments about Martz. For the record, he has in the past been a Martz advocate, so he is not biased on this.

 

- Martz was told during the game to run the ball more but he refused. Lovie has since "read Martz the riot act, both about the play calling and ignoring Lovie's instructions in game. Some around Halas are saying that if things don't change, Martz could actually be fired in the bye week.

 

Wow. If true, that is really shocking. While I still have a hard time believing we would fire Martz mid-season (a) if it is true Martz is blowing off Lovie during the game, it is far more possible and ( despite the negatives mentioned, that we have other assistants with experience may give the team confidence to pull the trigger.

 

Personally, I think Martz will in fact again change and run the ball. We saw him do it last year. We will see it again this year.

 

- Another problem he pointed out was the blocking, but a bit different from the normal talk. He said there has been an issue of the OL blocking for a 5 step drop and Cutler dropping 7 (this is just an example). I was not clear from the way he talked about it (in email) whether the issue is Cutler simply dropping outside the blocking scheme, the OL calling for blocking scheme that differs from the offensive playcall, or what. I'll follow up with him.

 

Anyway, I am not saying all of the above is fact. So take it for what you will, but as said, he is in sports media, and while now in Dallas, used to be located in Chicago and still has many ties there.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

personally, it doesnt matter much with how bad the Oline is and no real threat at WR...

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I'm not sure exactly the question in the first paragraph but if Martz were told to leave I have heard and seen a few mention Tice taking over on O calling duties. His style would probably be more rudimentary but we are talking Bears football. And he is the one teaching the oline... More on that in a second. The other name to consider is Toub. Not that long ago when Lovie was in hot water there came a story that Toub would have been asked to HC. I think it an intriguing choice considering how innovative and successful he's been.

 

With regards to the 5 and 7 step drops. I've been watching these games, especially NO and wondering why so often Jay looks to be so far behind the pocket. It would appear in what you wrote above that the line is learning to form a pocket with a certain technique blocking scheme that isn't jiving with the 7 step drop. When the line is forming their protection they are doing it with where they expect the QB to fall back to and for some reason Jay is going back farther. This doesn't allow for protection but also gives nowhere for Jay to step into because he'll run into the tackles forming the top of the pocket. Thusly he has to scramble more and his line of sight is obscured. Not sure where the disconnect would be. One would think with Martz' known like for the deep drop that the blocking would be more flat or linear to allow more field view...think zone scheme in Denver. For whatever reason though it would appear that Tice and Martz are not on the same page... Or someone.

 

I haven't understood the want for a seven step drop back. Too much time and process. QB's are normally afforded so much time in order to get off a pass and this cuts into that protection timeframe. And why we see Jay doing a lot of the back foot throwing. Not sure why they don't instead employ more of the shotgun that way the QB is already near where he needs to be.

[jason]

personally, it doesnt matter much with how bad the Oline is and no real threat at WR...

 

Agreed. Martz may have screwed up the last game, and his scheme may be wrong for the personnel, but the atrocious OL put out by the Bears is enough to cause any OC to pull out his own hair due to player failure.

[jason]

I'm not sure exactly the question in the first paragraph but if Martz were told to leave I have heard and seen a few mention Tice taking over on O calling duties. His style would probably be more rudimentary but we are talking Bears football. And he is the one teaching the oline... More on that in a second. The other name to consider is Toub. Not that long ago when Lovie was in hot water there came a story that Toub would have been asked to HC. I think it an intriguing choice considering how innovative and successful he's been.

 

With regards to the 5 and 7 step drops. I've been watching these games, especially NO and wondering why so often Jay looks to be so far behind the pocket. It would appear in what you wrote above that the line is learning to form a pocket with a certain technique blocking scheme that isn't jiving with the 7 step drop. When the line is forming their protection they are doing it with where they expect the QB to fall back to and for some reason Jay is going back farther. This doesn't allow for protection but also gives nowhere for Jay to step into because he'll run into the tackles forming the top of the pocket. Thusly he has to scramble more and his line of sight is obscured. Not sure where the disconnect would be. One would think with Martz' known like for the deep drop that the blocking would be more flat or linear to allow more field view...think zone scheme in Denver. For whatever reason though it would appear that Tice and Martz are not on the same page... Or someone.

 

I haven't understood the want for a seven step drop back. Too much time and process. QB's are normally afforded so much time in order to get off a pass and this cuts into that protection timeframe. And why we see Jay doing a lot of the back foot throwing. Not sure why they don't instead employ more of the shotgun that way the QB is already near where he needs to be.

 

Good post overall. I wonder if Martz and Tice often butt heads and they have non-complimentary styles (i.e. the possibility that Lovie calls out Martz but doesn't ask Tice to change to a style that may actually compliment the play calling). Regarding the shotgun, at least then Cutler gets a head start.

 

[madlithuanian]

You still play the hand you're dealt... I believe there have been many who have done more with less...

 

Agreed. Martz may have screwed up the last game, and his scheme may be wrong for the personnel, but the atrocious OL put out by the Bears is enough to cause any OC to pull out his own hair due to player failure.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

I believe it. Though I don't actually think Lovie would ever fire his offensive coordinator in season. As I've said, depending on how the Bears season goes, the fate of Mike Martz rests in whether or not we make the playoffs in all likelihood. I've never been a fans of his, I think his scheme is severely outdated and it has a history of getting quarterbacks killed. The Bears are built for Cutler roll outs and 3 step drops.

[jason]

I believe it. Though I don't actually think Lovie would ever fire his offensive coordinator in season. As I've said, depending on how the Bears season goes, the fate of Mike Martz rests in whether or not we make the playoffs in all likelihood. I've never been a fans of his, I think his scheme is severely outdated and it has a history of getting quarterbacks killed. The Bears are built for Cutler roll outs and 3 step drops.

 

I don't really have a problem with 90% of what you said, but I am curious where you get the "his scheme is severely outdated" thing from? Gets QBs killed? There is data to support that. But I don't see how one of the most complex schemes in the NFL could be considered outdated. Maybe difficult to implement and execute successfully, but definitely not outdated. It's not like the opponents have completely figured it out...they've just figured it out when the Martz offense is severely hamstrung.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Another thing that has gotten me to ask ???? Has anyone heard why it is Martz has decided to watch the games from the press box? I would think that maybe it is because he could see what is going on better but he seemed to do fine last year being "closer" to the action. I have heard that he likes to stand away from the mob of people and usually seen at the opposite end of the sideline so to get a better view, on the field. (Kinda like Jay was doing late in the NO game). The other added benefit would be to actually TALK with the players that are on the field....see Jay Cutler.

 

I'm just wondering. <_>

[rockren]

Thanks for sharing your potential insider info...and I absolutely believe it.

 

I am not one who believes coaches should get fired weekly or yearly...I believe coaches should be given long tenures to implement what they'd like to do as it takes a long time to build an organization. Tom Landry had 7 losing seasons in his first 7 years as a HC....we never would have heard of Tom Landry in today's NFL.

 

With that being said- I wanted Martz fired after the Giants game last year. Yeah, I know...we were 3-1 and the offense had its' moment early on. However, that was the most negligent and horrifying disregard I have seen for the welfare of a player in all of my time following football. That was our franchise QB we just traded a boatload of high picks for out there getting destroyed.

 

What makes me so upset is we saw a very similar negligent and disregard or our QBs health last Sunday. Who is to say we won't see it again in the near future?

 

I've always believed Martz to be a mastermind, however, it's clear his offense has run its' course in today's NFL. If it hadn't...he'd still be in Detroit calling plays or would be a HC somewhere. I really hate to suggest the Bears should invest into another OC as it would be Cutler's 4th in 5 years if they were to pull the plug on Martz at the end of the year (or 6th if they changed mid-season and again at season's end).

[madlithuanian]

That line right there is the key rockren.

 

We'll see a fix. But for how long until the real Martz rears his ugly head again?

 

What makes me so upset is we saw a very similar negligent and disregard or our QBs health last Sunday. Who is to say we won't see it again in the near future?

 

[BigDaddy]

I know exactly why. He doesn't wanna be anywhere near Cutler when he comes off the field after getting his ass handed to him. He also doesn't want to be close enough to hear Cutler getting his ass handed to him.

 

Another thing that has gotten me to ask ???? Has anyone heard why it is Martz has decided to watch the games from the press box? I would think that maybe it is because he could see what is going on better but he seemed to do fine last year being "closer" to the action. I have heard that he likes to stand away from the mob of people and usually seen at the opposite end of the sideline so to get a better view, on the field. (Kinda like Jay was doing late in the NO game). The other added benefit would be to actually TALK with the players that are on the field....see Jay Cutler.

 

I'm just wondering. <_>

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

I don't really have a problem with 90% of what you said, but I am curious where you get the "his scheme is severely outdated" thing from? Gets QBs killed? There is data to support that. But I don't see how one of the most complex schemes in the NFL could be considered outdated. Maybe difficult to implement and execute successfully, but definitely not outdated. It's not like the opponents have completely figured it out...they've just figured it out when the Martz offense is severely hamstrung.

Martz is living in the past with this offense. We don't have Tory Holt, Isac Bruce, Kurt Warner, or Marshall Faulk. As good as Forte is, he's not even close to what Faulk was in his prime. And Warner was one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history. In 1999, it was a much different game than it is now. You have to have the right personnel to run his offense and we don't have the offensive line for it, nor do we have the WR's.

[jason]

Martz is living in the past with this offense. We don't have Tory Holt, Isac Bruce, Kurt Warner, or Marshall Faulk. As good as Forte is, he's not even close to what Faulk was in his prime. And Warner was one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history. In 1999, it was a much different game than it is now. You have to have the right personnel to run his offense and we don't have the offensive line for it, nor do we have the WR's.

 

So basically what you're saying is that the system isn't outdated or anything like that, the Bears just don't have the personnel to make the system work. The "living in the past" part, however, doesn't make a lot of sense. Give Martz an OL that can block for more than 1 second, and guys like Hester, Knox, and Bennett will be open on a consistent basis.

[Mongo3451]

So basically what you're saying is that the system isn't outdated or anything like that, the Bears just don't have the personnel to make the system work. The "living in the past" part, however, doesn't make a lot of sense. Give Martz an OL that can block for more than 1 second, and guys like Hester, Knox, and Bennett will be open on a consistent basis.

Part of being an NFL caliber coordinator is adapting to the talent you have. Martz has simply failed in that regard. The only player used according to skillset is Forte. He continues to ask players to do what they are physically or mentally unable to do. Add to that, his stubbornness and huge ego are going to get Cutler disabled. The talent is JA and Lovie(some rumored to be Martz), how it is utilized is Martz. He simply has not delivered. IMO-it still falls squarely on Jerry and Lovie for bringing this nutcase in.

[AZ54]

I don't think our Oline is as bad as some make it out to be. They aren't great but they can pass protect decently this year. When Kellen Davis completely misses his block it's not an Oline issue. When Bell completely misses his block it's not an Oline issue. When the D blitzes more than we have blockers for and Cutler completely ignores his hot read it's not an Oline issue. That last line right there is why the Saints were so comfortable bringing 6 guys in the 4th quarter.

 

Jay seemed to go back into his.."l'll get it all back right here on this play" and just kept looking for the deeper routes to open up. This is the NFL and you have to take what the defense gives you. Getting sacked while Matt Forte stares at you all alone from the same spot that blizting LB occupied means you don't read what's happening. Ignoring a wide open Kellen Davis as he turns immediately toward Cutler on a hot route while watching the blitzing safety go after Cutler means he's not reading things.

 

I'm not saying our Oline is great but there are more pieces to this puzzle than just better pass protection. Martz calling more run plays is part of it. Cutler hitting his hot reads is part of it too. Last year in game 3 Cutler made this adjustment and it led to a victory against Dallas. Will the same thing happen in game 3 this year?

[Bears4Ever_34]

So basically what you're saying is that the system isn't outdated or anything like that, the Bears just don't have the personnel to make the system work. The "living in the past" part, however, doesn't make a lot of sense. Give Martz an OL that can block for more than 1 second, and guys like Hester, Knox, and Bennett will be open on a consistent basis.

No it does because the league has changed alot since 1999. Mike Martz runs an old and outdated passing system that was long ago schemed against by NFL defenses. Martz runs a variation of the old Air Coryel passing offenses from the 70s and 80s that revolutionized the passing game. Seven step drops, deep patterns put tons of pressure on defenses and made Coryel one of the greatest offensive minds in football history. His innovation was original and highly successful, just like Buddy Ryan's 46 defense. Why was Buddy Ryan's 46 defense so successful? Because Ryan brought exotic blitzes and all sorts of pressure from different angles to attack the Coryel style of passing. It was always a race to get to the QB and a lot of times defenders would get to the QB before he finished his pass drop.

 

The seven step drop, is what Ryan attacked and Martz still uses today even though pass rushers in today's NFL have developed to the point that they can get pressure on the QB before he can set his feet to throw. There are other offenses out there that don't require 7 step drops and don't require your quarterback to get blasted week in and week out. Martz's scheme is not as revolutionary as it was more than a decade ago, and the Rams were special because of their HOF talent.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I don't think our Oline is as bad as some make it out to be. They aren't great but they can pass protect decently this year. When Kellen Davis completely misses his block it's not an Oline issue. When Bell completely misses his block it's not an Oline issue. When the D blitzes more than we have blockers for and Cutler completely ignores his hot read it's not an Oline issue. That last line right there is why the Saints were so comfortable bringing 6 guys in the 4th quarter.

 

Jay seemed to go back into his.."l'll get it all back right here on this play" and just kept looking for the deeper routes to open up. This is the NFL and you have to take what the defense gives you. Getting sacked while Matt Forte stares at you all alone from the same spot that blizting LB occupied means you don't read what's happening. Ignoring a wide open Kellen Davis as he turns immediately toward Cutler on a hot route while watching the blitzing safety go after Cutler means he's not reading things.

 

I'm not saying our Oline is great but there are more pieces to this puzzle than just better pass protection. Martz calling more run plays is part of it. Cutler hitting his hot reads is part of it too. Last year in game 3 Cutler made this adjustment and it led to a victory against Dallas. Will the same thing happen in game 3 this year?

 

This is one of the best explanations I have seen. This echos a lot of what the so-called "experts" are saying in bits and pieces. Jay has been known to be a gunslinger and "yes" do what you say and try "to get it all back" in one play.

 

The Bears are more along the lines of West Coast built offense but working against itself with Martz' style (or desire) for the big play offense and to some degree Jay's.

[azbearsfan]

My disdain for Martz has been well documented, so I wont go into detail. But to me, if as a head coach you have to sit down your OC during the season to stop him from calling an unbalanced gameplan then there is a problem. if your OC is blatently ignoring you during a game, its grounds for a firing.

[chitownman]

Fox just showed the play calling for the first half by Martz and it is a frightening 17 passes to 6 run plays. That is disgusting to see. They talk about firing him at the bye week, fire his ass now so that Cutler may live to play another day. Plus don't stop there, fire Smith, Angelo and Philips as well.

[balta1701-A]

Fox just showed the play calling for the first half by Martz and it is a frightening 17 passes to 6 run plays. That is disgusting to see. They talk about firing him at the bye week, fire his ass now so that Cutler may live to play another day. Plus don't stop there, fire Smith, Angelo and Philips as well.

I'll defend him a little bit here. The Bears have had no success running the ball, and this has so far forced some of the passing plays. Once you're 2nd and 9, you're not running the ball. In addition, 6 of those plays have come inside of the 10 yard line, and without Barber, they don't have the personnel to make that happen.

 

The O-Line is actually being very effective in pass protection today. Cutler made some mistakes early but is now nailing things on target. The main reason people have been so insistent that the bears need to keep the ball on the ground is to help the O-line out...but it isn't needing it right now.

[Guest TerraTor]

two words on Martz.... freak and You

 

 

pathetic joke

[adam]

I would rather have a West Coast offense with the ability to audible. If we fire Martz, that Olsen trade will be even worse. I didn't really like it to begin with and if we go to a traditional offense, we could really have used him.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I would rather have a West Coast offense with the ability to audible. If we fire Martz, that Olsen trade will be even worse. I didn't really like it to begin with and if we go to a traditional offense, we could really have used him.

I called that failure from the start. I hated the Olsen trade and still do. Mike Martz won't be with this team next year if we miss the playoffs or the offense doesn't drastically improve.