BearFan PHX

I think when there is a negative media story, and you want to get ahead of it, you WANT that hard question, because it gives you the chance to say your side of it? From the reporter's point of view, he's hoping Caleb says something definitive, so he can write his story with quotes "I am my own man, my dad doesnt speak for me" etc It's like when reporters ask "how did it feel scoring the winning TD?" It's not because the reporter is wondering whether the player was sad or happy lol everyone knows the player is thrilled - it's to generate a quote for the article "Winning means everything to me" or whatever. AZ54 - completely agree with your take on it.

yeah its obvious that BJ was thrilled with Loveland. On that day I said i suspected he knew he ought to get a LT, but wanted the TE instead, when Loveland was the guy, he was overjoyed, not having to do the boring conservative thing, but to add firepower. But mostly, despite the only quotes i had happened to find, i was more talking about about whether we traded back too far and missed HBs we wanted with those tradebacks, and that it happened more than once. Probably Kaleb Johnson and Cam Skatebo. Now I cant say Im unhappy with Kyle Monangai either. And if Trapilo ends up starting, and Monangai ends up a big contributor, then im gonna say our board was pretty smart and deep. But none of that says that Poles didnt miscalculate the trade downs either?

Yeah I am not finding it at all - which is weird. I know it happened on April 26th, the last day of the draft, after it was all over, and I know it was CC at Halas Hall with Jeff King. I remember they were standing. I remember first seeing it in a vertical clip on youtube. I remember being surprised that Jeff King was so forthcoming about getting played on the trade downs. He used softer terms, but he admitted targeting several HBs and seeing them go before they picked after tradebacks. I think it might have been a remote for ESPN? Ive used google filters to limit to the day, and with those names, it should come right up. Possibly the Bears asked to have that removed because of what it said? i remember at the time I thought "holy crap thats a headline!" but it was just in the conversation and didnt get focus at the time. Just kind of "oh ok, thats what happened" Later, in the TTNL clip I posted above, a few days later, she spoke authoritatively about it. If you look at her twitter from the 24th to the 26th you see she gets a lot of quotes from underlings - scouts, asst directors of scouting etc. So she was in the building at Halas Hall talking to people on those days. Both covering press conferences, and getting quotes from people like Jeff King. She also still has tweets up with other quotes from Jeff King, so we know she interviewed him then too. Crazy that it's missing, unless the bears requested it to come down?

I havent found it yet - it was from Halas Hall, with Jeff King, who was standing to the left of CC from our perspective (CC's right) I remember the setup very clearly. Ill keep looking. In the meanwhile, here is CC saying it without attributing it. She says it in a definite way, so shes not expressing a guess. She had already said these were facts in the video Im not finding, but at least you can hear her say it with some authority. Go to 50:30

LOL you do get credit for watching TTNL videos! Ill look and see what i can find, cant promise ill find it, but Ill try.

Ok i watched some of Stinger's highlights, and I should amend my point, and maybe this brings me more into harmony with what Mongo is saying. When the play breaks, and Daniels scrambles, he does look around. I should have included that caveat. I guess Im saying on regular downs when the play is still in rhythm, i dont see a lot of reading. maybe hes only being given 2 reads, and told to get the ball out fast? Across the season i did see a lot of that. It looked like 1 read or run and create. Sometimes it looked like a scripted look off. I think I said 90% of the time hes a one read guy, so yes there are plays where he looks to a second read. In fact the first play of the tape, you can see his head move ever so much when he comes off the primary read, and on to Ertz. I might also say thats evidence of him turning his head to make a read too - but I admit he did get to his second read on that one. Maybe the truth is more like 70%, and you guys are saying 60% and Im saying 90% or something, meaning maybe a difference in how often it feels like it happens - I surely havent counted, I assume no one has. So my impression was that hes a one read guy, and you guys are saying maybe he does read more than I think? Either way, i dont think he is a fully functional pocket QB. Maybe we agree on that too.

I dunno man I think were just gonna have to disagree on this one

CC absolutely interviewed Jeff King on camera, and he said half of this, and the other half she attributed to him later in her own interview. I saw it with my own eyes, i feel like I even pasted to it on this board. You can say it didnt happen. Whatever. You win because things that happened never happened. Cool. As far as trading down, Poles took a gamble a certain player would be there later and they werent multiple times. Thats not a win for Poles. it IS OK for the Bears to not be perfect you know? Its Ok to criticize the bad stuff and praise the good stuff. Nothing is going to happen if we think the Bears had some stumbles in the draft. I dunno, maybe you're superstitious, but our comments cant hurt the bears, and it is OK to look at the good and the bad both. It's even ok to cut, trade or fire people who might be replaced by people who would be better. That's good for the team.

yeah its cool if we disagree. i think Daniels is a fantastic athlete, but I think 90%+ of the time, he was making a single read. And a lot of the time, his head was aiming right at that WR even before the snap. I agree NFL defenders should be all over that, but somehow they got open anyway. Im impressed with Kingsbury's ability to make that happen. it is kind of amazing, because you're right about defenders keying. As for scanning with eyes, I think the idea is that you move your head to influence defenders too. I dont see other QBs in the league going thru progressions without moving their head? As for your last sentence here, it's a good argument. Whatever they did obviously worked. I am surprised that it did, and I do predict the league catches up with it, but until they do, success is the best predictor of success, so you may well be right about not seeing a letdown. Well first off, a HUGE % of the time his firest read was open, which is why Im singing Kingsbury's praises. I don't know how he did that. I hope we can do that! And to be fair, when the first read is open, theres no reason to turn your head. But I didnt see more than a small handful of plays where Daniel's head moved. I didnt see him read to second and third options very much at all. It was mostly first read, or run when I watched him.

I think Kingsbury is a real offensive genius. I also understand him to be difficult to be around. I'm happy with Ben Johnson as our coach, but I think Kingsbury is his equal in Xs and Os, but BJ is the far better head coach.

still, it seemed like the primary receiver was open most of the time. I gotta give credit to Kingsbury for that. And I didnt do any kind of film analysis or anything, but Id love to know how he gets his first read open so much. But we agree that its basically a one read and run offense for Daniels, and that cant be sustainable?

When I say passer, in this case, I just mean the physical act of throwing the ball, not including decision making. And I personally have always thought that Fields has an incredible arm. He has a killer deep ball, very accurate. I think Fields' body with Bagent's brain would make an incredible QB, for example. As for your description of Kingsbury's scheme, I totally agree. If you watch film of Daniels, he locks on to his primary receiver before the snap, and its yes, or run. You almost never see his head turn. A couple plays have what looks like a scripted look off, but i dont see Daniels making multiple reads. Ive only seen him do that a handful of times, overwhelmingly, it is as you described, and I agree the NFL will catch up to it. But how does Kingsbury get his primary receiver so wide open on so many plays? That's the part thats astounding to me!

that is SO fair. Im trying to bend over sideways to not be negative, so maybe I went too far positive LOL maybe I could spin it like this? Poles got the two best candidates out there for these jobs. So he succeeded. Now whether they work out, is another thing? But yeah. Im not sold on Poles. I'd really like to know whether he was allowed to fire Flus last year or not. If he was, then he is definitely suspect. But maybe he wasnt, and I'll probably never know. Let's see how Dalman and Jackson look on the OL. We are assuming those holes are plugged now, but I thought Nate Davis' tape was awesome too. Youre right - lets wait and see. Like you said - looks good on paper, cant wait to see it on grass.

OK youre missing two very important details. 1) It was said AFTER the draft, not before. CC says she spoke to the dir of player personnel after the draft, and he said Loveland wasnt necessarily their first choice, that if Banks had fallen, for example, they would have taken him. I believe CC is not a liar. I feel like it may even have been partly on video, so you could see hm say it - Jeff something. 2) It matters who was available when, because we did trade down multiple times. *IF* we traded down thinking we would get a certain targeted HB at a lower pick, one who was still available on the board BEFORE the trade down, and we could have just picked them then, but instead if we traded down and then someone got in front of us and took the HB, then that means we read the situation poorly, and missed out on HBs we were targeting more than Monangai. If it happened multiple times, then it is fair to criticize the draft process as having misread the board, and missed out on players we mistakenly thought would be available later, got greedy, and missed the HB that was targeted. And even if that did happen, I'm not unhappy value-wise with the players we DID pick either, but if you're going to be evaluating the team, you gotta look into the places where they failed too. Is it fireable? No it's not. But that doesnt mean it isnt important. It's important in the continued evaluation of Poles who has done some amazing things, some good things, gotten lucky some, made some very questionable moves, and a few flat out bad decisions too. For me, right now, Poles is getting a B. Maybe a B+, and most of that is due to Caleb and Johnson, two massive pieces we got VERY right. But Caleb was luck as much as anything, and Johnson picked the Bears because of Caleb. So Poles could easily have lost both of them, if the Texans don't score a last minute touchdown in the last game of the season that didnt matter to them. For me, that all adds up to: Poles is worth keeping an eye on. I'm not totally sold on him or Warren. Not the way I am about the coaching staff, for example.

CC reported that Bears employees, including director of player personnel said they wanted players that were gone before they picked, and specifically Jeanty, Banks and Campbell, and Henderickson later. She named her source, and also exactly when he said it (immediately after the draft) So either you think she is lying, or youre just trying to ignore these facts because they dont fit your "everything is perfect" narrative. Now even if the Bears did get out maneuvered on the board, it doesnt mean the draft was a failure. Poles may have miscalculated who would be there at times, but we still stayed true to our board and got value. So this isnt me saying he was awful either. But reality is messy, and is almost never "they got it exactly how they wanted it, its perfect"

Jayden Daniels isnt that great. He is a lot like Justin Fields - amazing arm, great with his feet, but not ready to read a fully dimensional offense. Kliff Kingsbury has gotten the most out of him - really amazing results. Let's see if it continues this year. It's hard to make a QB look good consistently if they cant read a defense, eventually the NFL will catch up to what you're doing schematically, and force Daniels to play the position, and then i believe he will be exposed..

Ok, so I watched the episode. Lots of great highlight film on players. I was especially happy to see Turner's film. I think he was a steal. He should help us a lot. I do think the beginning where they say "Let's start with Loveland" was a little bit suspect. It's not clear that they started with him out of the gate, or if they were doing tight ends there, or what. We have heard from Courtney Cronin that the Bears would have taken Jeanty, Campbell or Banks over Loveland if any of them had been there, so I dunno if the film really says anything - it was edited tightly to the beginning of those words, and there is nothing from the draft before the pick. Still and all, the Bears were obviously very high on Loveland, and pleased that he was available for them. He's gonna be a great player for us, I believe. But I don't know that this film really does anything to dispel the idea that Poles miscalculated on HB availability through several trade downs. That's not to say that the players they did get were bad - they arent. It looks like a solid crop of rookies that can help us, including the HB we eventually did get, Monangai who looks great. I just don't think everything went perfectly according to plan on draft day either? Or at least, this film isn't proof that it did.

Burden has a ton of talent, and with the right guidance I hope he turns into a real weapon - he has it in him! But the reason he slipped to the second round is that he shows much sharper cuts when he's running with the ball than he does when he's running his routes, and he is a bit of a head case. Now to be fair, most stud WRs have giant egos and are head cases, so it's hopefully not a fatal flaw, but if he is coachable, he does have a ceiling to become a top WR in the NFL.

see THIS I totally agree with! Narratives! They create clicks, but they dont mean anything. Now it is clear that Caleb has a lot of developing to do. For example, Ben Johnson has changed his footwork. GOOD. He will also have to grow reading defenses and making quick decisive reads. But that's not a problem or a negative, it's right on time for a young QB who just started with his first pro mentor. Caleb is neither perfect nor a bust. He's just a guy with insane amounts of talent, who seems to be working very hard to get better. And I, for one, would not bet against him right now. Cant wait for the season to start so we can see whats working and what needs fixing. It sure looks good on paper. Can't wait to see it on grass.

Maybe if my posts are too long, you can find someone to help you read them. Or just sound out the letters. You know, you start this every time. I say something about the Bears, and you come back at me with some over confident idea that Poles will NEVER _________, but you dont know, and each time you do it, it turns out youre wrong. Your pattern seems to be everyone on the team is great if you just give them one more chance. Rah rah rah.

Here's how the cycle goes: 1) I say something to the group. Something I've noticed, someone i think isn't playing well. I dont say it to you. 2) You immediately tell me I'm wrong "there is no way Poles is going to..." and call me pessimistic or disloyal or something. You probably heard Greg Gabriel say it - in fact, that's the problem, you listen to the wrong sources, and get so confident in what youre saying because they said it. 3) I wait the prescribed amount of time until the thing is proven and i was right 4) You say Im dredging the past while you continue to tell me factually why i cant be right about this thing. repeat. You also like to say that i must be wrong because i take the time to say things clearly and with examples. That is not an argument a smart person would make. "You must be wrong becasue you give too many facts" OK, thats wild. But for the last several years, everything I say, you're so consistently arrogant about telling me im wrong, and yet over and over again it turns out like i said. I don't know everything. I'm not an oracle you can ask any question of and I can predict the future. I'm not even particularly good at calling things that are 60/40. But these havent been controversial ideas (except to you). That Fields sucked. I mean sheesh just look at the film. And Eberflus. Again, he blew 3 games TWO YEARS IN A ROW! How could they bring him back? How could anyone have thought that was a good idea? And yet, you called me all kinds of names for saying it at the time. I needed to just believe a little harder and the wins fairy would sprinkle love all over Eberflus and Fields. And then Caleb comes out, and if you watch the games you see he is a tremendous talent. He's gonna be the best QB the Bears have ever seen, and I say that, which again really inst controversial, and the next thing we know, youre telling me some first round picks are busts, so we should take a QB in a lower round, so our risk isnt as big. Seriously? There's a long list of things you've jumped on me for, and I had to wait my years and guess what? I was right on all of them. For a while it seemed like i was a negative person hating on everything, but now the things I was saying then are common knowledge now. And again, Im not so good at predicting, these things have been obvious and easy. Thats why its so frustrating to have to deal with your constant flat statements about how we all need to stop criticizing the team, and Poles would never do this or that. Im telling you now. Kmet is on the bubble. So is Braxton Jones. Either of them can play their way into staying, but the odds, in my view, are against it. I also think they are unlikely to be traded now, but next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. Instead of thinking how unfair that is for them, and getting mad at me about it, imagine instead the NEW Bears players we will get out of whatever we traded them for AND the increased cap space it brings. The new players will be Bears too, and we can root for them! Maybe they will be a missing piece on the DL that brings us into a SB window? It's not negative, it's not mean, it's not even controversial, the cap numbers and the depth chart make it kind of obvious?

NO NO NO. Youre making strawmen up and then arguing with your fake assumptions. I have ZERO problem with you disagreeing with me, or having opinions that i think are wrong. Thats FINE thats what this board is FOR. But you literally told us "Time to jump on board instead of still questioning everything." - like our questioning was a problem. Dont turn this around into our having a problem with you having an opinion - its the opposite. You tell me im pessimistic by nature, that i just want to crap on players. You say it ALL the time. Like it's not OK to have opinions you dont agree with. Have your opinion, Ill have mine, that makes the world go around. But stop telling us that we cant express concern about players on this team - this isnt a pep club. Its a bunch of fans, who as far as I can tell all LOVE the Bears, and spend a HUGE amount of time on them. So if we want to say that a player should be traded, or whatever, then thats OK. We dont need to get in line and be good little fans, I dont know where that crap comes from, but its ridiculous. And also, for the millionth time. I am not saying Kmet should be traded now. Did you read that? You continue to put words in my mouth. Im NOT saying he should be traded now. I AM saying that he is on the bubble, and he needs to show something or he will be gone next year, or possibly at the trade deadline. But mostly, your overly rosy viewpoint, the one where for years you keep telling us that what we have on the team is good enough is getting tired. Obviously Poles didnt agree. He didnt think "hey weve got to give Jenkins another chance" like you did. He didnt think "hey lets roll another year with Fields" like you did. He didnt think "Bates will be good at center this year, we dont need another player" like you did. He didnt think "Kmet is one of the top TEs int he league so we dont need to draft one high" like you did. He didn't think "Caleb holds the ball too long and shouldnt be a number one pick" like you did. And Eberflus didnt "just need another year" like you thought. I appreciate the optimism, but at some point, your homer fan's obsession with thinking everyone on the roster just needs another chance is ridiculous. Of course you are entitled to your opinion - but not your shaming us for not sharing it. We are entitled to our opinions too, and over the past few years, our track record is a LOT better than yours. We have been SO bad for SO long, we have every right to be cynical, and make projections about our players. And the funny thing is, I'm NOT a pessimist. I'm extremely excited about this season. I think our roster is better than it's been in many years. I think Caleb is going to be the best QB in Bears history. And I think we are opening a window to contend for a SB. So this nonsense that keeps coming from you about how we need to think differently, or hold our tongues, adjust our psychological perspectives or whatever the hell it is is unwelcome and inappropriate. At some point, after youve been wrong SO many times, maybe have the humility to realize that some other people on this board might know what they are talking about? I personally learn more form other members of this board than i do from the sports talking heads types in mainstream media. Idiots like Greg Gabriel, Kurt Warner, Boomer Esiason and the rest just repeat poorly thought out narratives.

this board? LOL

You act like we insulted a member of your family when we criticize the players. Like their feelings are hurt, and you need to defend them. Then you just tried to tell us all that "Time to jump on board instead of still questioning everything." so - no. This from the guy who was one of the last to give up on Fields - who didnt want Caleb? We are gonna question whatever we want to. We are gonna say things are good or bad. We are gonna wonder how this experiment is gonna work. All of us are optimistic about all of this too, which makes these reactions of yours even weirder. Also, you dont know whats fantasy and what isnt. You dont know who the Bears will trade or not. You say these things like they are absolute truths, and yet over and over when you and I have disagreed, I have ended up being right. At some point, you should at least respect my right to hold an opposing view, since youve been wrong so many times. I think I've earned that. Remember a few months ago when you told us that there would be no more than 2 new faces on the OL? You constantly want to tell us that people already on the roster are great, and just need another chance. "Theres no way the Bears..." how the hell do YOU know?! "Poles would never..." uh huh. So yes you are entitled to your opinion, but youre wrong all the time, so maybe lecturing us on whether we can say negative things is kinda cringey at this point? Stay in your lane!

yup. hopefully Kevin Warren is a buffer that keeps them out of most decisions. I still want to know if Poles chose to keep Flus last year, or if he was told he couldnt fire him with 3 years left on his deal by said owners.