BearFan PHX

totally agree, when hes healthy, he's a good player.

same time last year...

I dunno what it means. Maybe the picture was taken from a weird angle, but he definitely looks lighter. Ill post it below. Allen likes his ends heavier so maybe it makes sense. Maybe they think Grady Jarrett and Billings are the starters? I didnt think Jarrett had that many snaps in him though? Whatever it means, you gotta admit, the roster is full enough now that is hard to know WHAT theyre up to. Maybe this is how coordinators are going to feel in game week before playing us LOL Here is Dexter arriving to voluntary workouts.

New pictures of Dexter show a slimmer player, closer to 280ish than last years 312. I wonder if Allen is going to switch him to DE, and that increases our need for a DT in the draft. Interesting.

agree, and some people think he isn't even the 2nd best RB. Some like Henderson better, and some like Kaleb Johnson better. Some people love Hampton, and others are not so high on him. People I respect say to avoid him, but i need to watch more film before I have any real opinion on that.

for sure - guys "failing" to the inside makes sense, but once someone is good somewhere, moving them is a bad idea. and yes, i think our guys are smarter than that too. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility since ive been looking for a LT, dont like Jones there, and worry that Banks could be gone by 10. But I agree with you and AZ54 not to do that. I also hope that isnt the plan.

no I agree with you. I was wondering if thats what they might be thinking. I wouldnt like that at all either

LOL dude, Im just saying talk about the player, not what some site has him ranked. Your opinion about him is what matters, telling us we are only fans and cant possibly know anything isnt an argument. A good argument would be "his footwork is bad" or "he plays too high" or "hes bad at handfighting" or something about him as a player. Not just numbers of sacks and pressures. Stuff you see with your eye watching film. Like to me Banks looks really smooth, while Campbell looks a lot less graceful. And then maybe you dont see it that way. So cool. Thats a discussion though. If theres something wrong with Banks, Im all ears. Or maybe instead you want to say why Jeanty or Warren or a DT would be a better choice. Those are all good arguments too. But all Im hearing is that some site has him ranked 3rd or to go after pick 15. Those are narratives, and right or wrong, they arent player evaluation. Also i dont think I watch film better than anyone else. I just watch it. And like a lot of people, if you look, its not so hard to see. Its just football. Weve all been watching it a LONG time. All of our opinions are valid if we just look and say what we see.

Cool, so then stop telling us that yours is the only opinion that matters because the rest of us are just fans, but youre not just a fan because some expert says whatever. You have every right to your opinion. You can say what you dont like about Banks. You can say why you prefer another player. You can say anything you want except that our opinion doesnt count because of some expert youre quoting. The idea here isnt to win, its to discuss what we see, positive and negative so we can go back and look at film and test those theories, that way we all learn more and hone our opinions together, agreeing or disagreeing the same. If you've watched all this film (and yes I have too) then say what you saw that you liked or didnt like. Thats all Im talking about. You dont have to agree with me at all. That's all fine. Just say something about the player instead of making the argument of authority all the time. Because its not actually an argument, and it dismisses all the rest of us from having any views worth anything. In other words, forget who says an idea, just debate the idea itself, not the credentials of the person who said it.

Yeah, I would rather they kept Wright where he is and let him break out this year. Arm length is only one part of the equation. some really great ones have shorter arms. Longer is better, but it isnt everything. If they get to the 2nd round without an OT, and Ersery and Conerly are gone, I agree Grant could be the next name up. He is probably a 3rd round grade, but if there is a run on OTs, who knows.

Stinger said something before, I really agree with, we could go into the season with what we have right now. We dont have any glaring holes. I mean LT yada... but other than that, we could go with Swift, but we hope for better, we could use depth and future players at almost every position, but this draft is about building to the future. It could go in any direction. And I will argue that this is the signal that Poles' "rebuild" is done. This team needs to start winning now. We arent playing for tomorrow any more. And adding 3 or 4 starting caliber players to the current roster will help a lot!

Funny thing is, if the combine numbers are to be trusted, Banks has short arms too and so does basically the whole OT class? But you're right that Poles has talked about wingspan before. I think he talked about it after he didn't pick Skoronski and took Wright instead? Who knows what the GMs really mean when they say these things. But you're doubly right that he wouldnt take a OG with #10. I saw a mock draft where we took OG Booker at 10. I mean, Im no expert, but that seems really far fetched, and to your point, ditto on any OT to convert to OG. If he takes an OT at 10 it'll be to play OT. Not predicting it, but what if they plan to move Wright to LT, and plug someone in at RT? That's kind of halfway between LT and OG. Maybe a guy like Booker could play RT?

so obviously i disagree with you, but that's what makes horse races. If they arent going OT for some reason, then I think Jeanty over Warren. If the Michigan DT drops, he could be an option too. But for me, if Banks is there, he's the pick, even if Campbell is there too. If both are there and the Bears go with Campbell I will assume they know something I dont, and cheer for him. But if it was me, I'd be taking Banks. Youre right about Allen's influence too. I wonder who his guy is. I cant remember going into a draft with more question marks about what we will do than this one.

you dont know that. your guy Brugler often claims we are taking one. I mean in between the times he says it's 5 other people too. They pay him a lot of money to what? Say every name on the list? What an expert. You dont know any more than the rest of us. We are all entitled to our opinions, and after watching Bears football for decades, I think I, and many members of this board, have educated opinions that are worth something. You dont even have an opinion - you just have someone else's.

I think we are all allowed our opinions here. You dont know crap just because one guy says something, and for the record, keeps changing his mind too LOL Also, you keep saying i think Im smarter than everyone, but thats not true at all. YOU are the one that thinks they are smarter than everyone - with a twist - you've got some guy you think is smarter than everyone, and you just repeat what they say.

No, youve completely misunderstood me. You talk about people that do this for a living as if they agree with each other. They don't. You just picked one, and the only evidence you have is that theyre an expert. And there are experts that agree with me too, and experts that have completely different opinions than either of us. So it means jack all that some so called expert you like thinks something. It's just another opinion. And this board is about having opinions, and so your tired refrain that we cant be right because we arent experts is nonsense. We all have our opinions here, and we dont need to be your favorite sportswriter to be allowed to have an opinion. Put another way - by your own logic: are YOU a professional critic of sportswriters? No? Maybe you dont have the right to an opinion on which ones are the good ones. Greg Gabriel? LOL its a joke.

In other Mocks, Brugler has us taking OG Booker and OT Simmons. So he is consistent that we will take OL. 10 is kinda early for a guard isnt it? And Simmons has injury concerns. But moslty I gotta wonder. If Brugler is the holy guru who knows all, why does he keep changing his mind? And how does that prove we are wrong if he proves himself wrong by changing his mind? This is why the argument of authority is a well known logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

our main needs are the trenches for sure. I wouldnt mind adding S, WR and/or TE too. not necessarily with the first pick though.

I agree - he's almost like another QB coach.

LOL I just googled Bruglers mock draft. He says the player taken by the Bears is... wait for it... OT Kelvin Banks Jr. SO what are you even talking about?! https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-drafts/2025/the-athletic-2025-dane-brugler?date=2024-12-04

I would love to debate the subjectivity of how you see him vs how I see him - that's what this place is for. What it isnt for is you continuing to make the same logical error. You say Brugler is an authority. I can find other authorities that are just as credentialed as Brugler that agree with me. Therefore being credentialed doesn't mean anything because credentialed people agree with you AND me. And disagree with eachother. If you remove the draft sites you mentioned as fringe (I agree they are - never head of them), the numbers skew even more in my favor. I just took the first 21 and included those sites so you wouldnt say I was cherry picking. The more mainstream the source on that list, the more they agreed with me. And in either case the median average was still 13. And again, you need to understand, I am not saying that because 65%+ of the experts agree with me that I am am right. I am simply saying that PROVES you WRONG when you say "the experts agree that Banks goes 15 to 25." That is factually wrong. That's what the mock drafts showed. Nothing more. So yeah, you have some guys you read that you think are smarter than all of us, and that's your "evidence" that what we think is wrong. Despite us having a majority of experts who agree with us. (which again, doesnt prove anything other than that being an expert doesnt make you right) Make an argument or dont, but I am getting sick of you discounting any opinion that isnt one of the guys you read. Good for you that you follow someone. We are here to debate, and shutting down debate with the continued ONLY argument that we cant know anything or have a valid opinion because we arent your expert is rude. I know what I see when I watch Banks tape. And my opinion is a valid one. I've been right before, I think I deserve the respect of you telling my WHY I'm wrong other than the same tired argument that I'm not an expert, but you ARE because youre just parroting one?

I have no idea what youre talking about. The page I linked to wasnt of fan mocks? it was the main sportswriters at all those major publications. CBS, NBC, FOx Sports, NFL.com, PFF, PFN, Sports Illustrated. THese were the mocks their experts did, the articles they wrote. And I only submitted them to rebut one claim you made - that the experts see Banks as lower than they actually obviously do. that's factually wrong, and I proved it. Maybe Banks sucks, but expert opinions from the mainstream sports press do not make 13 equivalent to 15-25. That's false. I also say that mocks are not what drives my opinion. I just put them there to prove your assertion about experts is wrong. I submitted the most mainsrteam experts. What drives me is film. I know what Ive seen. Your entitled to your opinions of course, but i believe they are wrong. I think Banks is a top pick, experts think he is a top pick, the film says he is a top pick. But thats not proof of course. When all the "experts" were still saying Fields was good, I already KNEW he would never be good. I knew it from the tape. I knew he had crap protection. I didnt count those plays. I knew he had dropped balls, and I didnt count those plays either. But I saw a ton of plays where he was protected with guys open and didnt pull the trigger. Once I knew that I KNEW, not opinion, Id seen the proof. I KNOW what kind of player Banks is. I cannot predict how he or Campbell or any of them will go from here. But I KNOW that right now, hes a top pick, and I feel comfortable with 65% of the so called experts saying he will be gone by 13. Will he go even earlier? I hope not, but it's a distinct possibility. But if youve thought I was putting fan mocks up, you didnt get my point at ALL. Your constant argument seems to be that some writer you trust told you something. It's not YOUR opinion, it's theirs, and then the only defense you give for it is that they are experts and we arent. Well anyone whos read sportswriters for any period of time knows they are not infalliable. To say the least. You say "X says Y" and then maybe we say "well I disagree, because I dont see Y on the tape" and you say "well youre just a stupid fan, and you dont know as much as my guy X knows" and then we say "well heres a bunch of OTHER experts who are JUST as credentialed as yours who disagree!" - doesnt that prove that credentials dont prove anyone is right? If others of the same pedigree disagree? Its a classic logical fallacy called the "argument from authority" and it isnt an argument at all because other authorities disagree, so therefore being an authority doesnt make you right. Being right does. You cant say "2+2=5 because Im a math PHD" and some homeless guy says "well Ive got two beers in one hand, and two in the other and they add up to four" and you say "well youre not a math PHD" so which matters most? logical proof, or credentials? Especially when other math PHDs are saying 2+2=4 and maybe some crazy other ones are saying it equals 2. At some point you have to count the freakin beers and prove your are right or not, regardless of credentials. Watching a LT play and evaluating them isnt rocket science dude. There are things to look for, and it's all on the tape. Many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people can do it. They may disagree on evaluation, but at least they can argue on points, not just authority. For example Doctor A says you have one disease, Doctor B says another. Im not a doctor but I say I think it's B too. So you say, "you're not a Doctor and Doctor A says its one disease" but... Doctor B IS a doctor and he says something else. So doesnt that mean being a Doctor doesnt mean youre right? My sportswriters are just as credentialed as yours, and they disagree, so being credentialed doesnt prove anything. Thats the logical fallacy - the argument from authority. I wish for once youd just tell me "I dont like your guy Banks because he plays too high" or "Banks has poor lateral movement" or SOMETHING more than a 40 time or an arm measurement - those are lazy narratives that are excuses for not doing the homework of actually watching the tape. But all you say is "well a guy I read doesnt agree with you, and their opinion is better than yours" And at some point, since all the good writers disagree, I gotta just call BS and say "argue something substantive more than just we cant possibly know because we are just fans" because its insulting, and its not really a debate point at all. Seriously, have you watched more than 10 minutes of highlights on any of these guys? You really look at Banks and dont see Pro Bowler potential? Really? You see Membou on tape and think he looks better? I dont think you would say that if youd LOOKED at the tape. It's just something you read someone else said. That's not a debate. It's some combination of blind faith in a couple writers and stubbornness. So from now on, don't tell me my opinion doesn't count because I'm just a fan. A lot of us have been watching football a long time, and I learn stuff from fellow posters here all the time. Lots of smart people here with educated opinions. Tell me why YOU think Im wrong about a player. Tell me what YOU see. This argument of authority thing isn't gonna fly any more. I could well be wrong about anything - tell me why Im wrong, dont just dismiss me (and all of us) by saying we can't know what we're talking about.

CRAP! Just read that Miami star LT Terron Armstead just retired. More competition for LTs, and Miami might even have to trade up, maybe over us, or maybe to us, but then we arent getting Banks after Miami picks at 10 and SF picks at 11.

I dont see how a median of 13 means 15-25 was accurate? 15 - 25 means a general value around 20ish, 13 is much higher? If someone said to redo their small bathroom and they'd give you somewhere between $15k and $25k to do it, and when you finished they gave you $13k, you wouldnt think that was anything like what theyd told you? But we agree 10 isnt too early.

all great names. I love Landon Jackson. Of course i want to see an OT, but these are all players Id love to see on the Bears.