BearFan PHX

The way the talent is allotted in this draft makes a trade down a very good option. Then again, by your own argument, if you believe there is a difference maker, at LT, at HB, at DT whatever, then you can take them, even if it's a few picks early, or too high for a position. I think youre right about the talent vs draft value curve here, but each player is an individual too, and if Johnson and the staff like a guy, if I'm Poles, rather than trading down and getting credit for a GM move, Id just grab the guy. Especially with 2 high 2nd rounders to play with. I guess another way to say this is that I can see a ton of different smart options for us, and the team is in a great spot in terms of being able to do pretty much anything they want. So your point is right, and a trade down is a win. The point about Jeanty is right, and could be amazing. Adding a DT or LT even if its a little early makes sense. If Johnson likes a skill player, a surprise WR ot TE or even an edge! it ALL makes sense, as long as the player evaluations are right. In short - I have no freakin idea!! We are in a very flexible position. Well played, Poles.

There is logic to that analysis, in terms of maximizing value. But if you think a guy is worth pick 15, and you think he will help your team, it's Ok to pick him at 10. You dont want to reach too far, and especially not to the point where you couldve gotten him a round later, but it's OK to take a player you believe in a few picks early. I guess another way to say this, is the Bears may have different valuations on a player than we do? For example I see Kelvin Banks mocking as early as pick 4, and as late as 17 or 20 area. If you love him, you grab him at 10? But similarly, and to your point, if you love Jeanty, and think 10 is a little early, it's OK to take him too!

Because if we believe in a RT, and they play well it and complete our line, it will win more games for us, and make any HB we have look good. That's the justification for why not. Another justification for why not, is if you beoieve there is another difference maker, maybe on DL that will help more? It's a difficult choice. Id personally take Kelvin Banks Jr over Jeanty, but if we do take Jeanty, i will be happy about it of course.

just by position, HBs usually need the least amount of adjustment, and contribute immediately. Everyone else has a steeper learning curve. I suppose you could make the pass protection argument relating to HBs, there is probably some learning curve there, but when you give them the ball, they just hit the hole with their talent. So my answer to this question would be to pick your favorite HB. And for me that's probably Jeanty?

Good points about QB needs. The only thing is that it wasnt specifically meant for Bears fans because it was part of Tennenbaum's mock. But we can agree that he wasnt a very good GM then or now.

Carolina v2.0?

OK so here's some awesome draft BS... Former Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum, who wasnt especially good at being a GM, predicts that if Colorado QB Shadeur Sanders slides out of the top 5, he'd be targeted as a trade up to pick 10. In a recent mock, he has the Steelers trading up with us like this: Chicago gives 1st round Pick (10) [369 Hill pts] 5th round pick (148) [10 Hill pts] Pittsburgh gives 1st round pick (21) [261 Hill pts] 3rd round pick (83) [52 Hill pts] 4th round pick (123) [23 Hill pts] 2026 1st round pick [100 ish pts] In this draft especially, I'd do that in a heartbeat. 2 firsts next year?! I doubt Pittsburgh would pay that much. Like I said its a bunch of BS, be we have nothing better to talk about, and the trade chart says: Chicago 379 for Pittsburgh 433 or a difference of 54 pts which = a mid round 3rd Maybe the value works out if youre getting a good QB, but who here wouldnt take that deal in a second? Probably why it would never happen. But if it did, that'd be amazing.

based on what youve said, he and a couple other names are primed for a 2nd round pick, and I suppose it just comes down to our scouts and staff evaluations. Having not seen film on him, but just based on what youve said, he is definitely intriguing.

especially if Banks is off the board already IMO

its weird this year re: arms - everyone seems to have 33 1/2" arms this year. I just looked up Jackson on draftbuzz and they have him with 33 1/2" arms too. I heard there is some question as to how they are measuring at the combine, and getting shorter numbers than the pro days? Armgate? LOL But at the combine he was 33 1/2" for what it's worth - I personally dont care about arms, but film. He played guard most of his career, and then injuries forced him to LT where he did well against good competition amid a run to a national championship. He did not allow a single sack throughout the college playoffs. He was not on my radar until your post here - now I gotta go watch some film.

It's starting to feel this way to me now too. DT first round, LT second round: first round = DT, or some skill player that Johnson covets second round = LT could be Ersery, Conerly or Grant from W&M - and a DT or skill player Johnson covets third round = RB, WR, S, CB even LB maybe OL depth

Yeah, his knee is gonna be the question.

One wildcard sleeper at OT: Minnesota LT Aireonte Ersey Hes great in the run game, has all the strength and size you want, wins heads up pass protection reps, shut out Abdul Carter one on one this past year, and looked good against competition at the senior bowl - but his big knock is that he needs to do better reading and picking up stunts and games. If he interviews confident and smart, and we think we can coach him up, he could be a real sleeper and a great pick in the 2nd round. We could go DT with pick 10, and come back to the 2nd round for Ersey at LT and BPA of HB/WR/S

Its a good argument, especially if Banks is gone, and you dont know how Simmons will recover. even more true given that Allen likes his DEs a little bigger than the league generally does. When you favor a less popular body type, they can be available a little later in the draft.

This bodes so well. Wouldnt it be amazing if our defensive line became a real threat?

Im less concerned with the arms, and more with the game film. When we evaluated Skoronski it was the same thing (to me) - he was a catcher who waited for contact to come to him. (not saying Campbell has the same trait, just the same in that his film looked bad to me) Now I dont have a crystal ball, these are just my opinions. I cant say that Will Campbell wont grow into a great NFL LT, but I am just saying I wouldnt personally bet on it. I am even less informed when it comes to predicting Josh Simmons after he comes back from the knee injury. If a doctor told me he'd be 100%, I take banks at 10, or Simmons if Banks was gone. I would totally avoid Campbell. But again, thats just how i see it - no disrespect meant to anyone who sees Campbell differently.

yes it is not ideal at all this year at pick 10

he was also protecting Jaden Daniels, who ran away from sacks. There is lots of film of Campbell letting guys through, they just didnt get Daniels down? My gut says that Campbell will not make it as a LT in the NFL, but ha does have great physical tools, so with the right coaching, maybe he will prove me wrong.

Agree 100%. I woulds take Banks at 10 with no reservations, and consider myself lucky to have him. I gotta say, Ive seen a bunch of film now on Cambpell, and he is awful in 3 ways. First he plays too high. He has great strength so it doesnt always hurt him, but in the NFL, he will get pushed back with the bull rush, just like Braxton Jones. Secondly, he gets beat to the outside. Some say his arms are too short to recover from an outside move, but whatever the reason, players get the edge on him. But worst and most damning, he is awful at hand fighting and gets beat INSIDE way too often. To me that's a cardinal sin. Maybe he will be a good OG, but i dont think we should be spending pick 10 on a guard, especially with the roster as it is right now. I do see the value of having a guy for the future, but I dont think thats the best use of our first round pick? I like what Ive seen if Simmons, and if I knew he would be healthy, Id take him. But it's an unknown at best. I'd like to think we will be OK with Jones or Amagadje this year, but more and more Im starting to think that's a mistake, and we need an OT in the first round. This is a tough spot to be in. If Banks falls, then it's easy, but if he goes before we pick, I feel like we're going to have to take a chance on Simmons, and that could really backfire. Or it could turn out great. But it's a risk for sure.

AH yes. Thank you! So Jeanty does seem to fall a lot to us on draftbuzz, and personally I don't like Campbell but he is usually there too. Banks is almost always gone by 10 on draft buzz, but available until pick 17 or 20 on most other sites. This is why Im trying to figure out what I think about Simmons!

cool that you did - who were you taking at 10 mostly? For me Banks was almost always gone.

I think the basic difference between your two positions are whether it would happen at the trade deadline this year, or next year? Thats not so different, I think you both acknowledge the possibility or a trade, and the probability that he'll be here for two years? But yeah, in general, we will need to get used to the idea of trading good players who have more in the tank to make room for drafted rookies - thats how you build a sustainable team, and its not something weve been particularly known for. And it will be hard for people who are fans of the players to let go of guys who are still valuable?

I think the draftbuzz site has Nolen rated higher. Honestly their draft simulator is a LOT tougher than the others. If you check it out, use random seed 1 or 2, 4 is too out there in my opinion.

I dont think he is a sleeper - I think youre right he is a real possibility!

well you gotta take BPA when you can, but the more I think about it, the more I think we need a LT. Last week I was more Ok with drafting skill positions, defensive line etc, but unless Im missing some real starting caliber 2nd round LT prospects (which I might well be!) I feel like we need to take a LT in the first round. But to me, only Banks is the real deal, and Simmons could be, but i dont know if hes gonna be the player he was its hard.