Lucky Luciano

PRESS CONFERENCE - ROUGHLY: TED the head PHILLIPS: "they (angelo, lovie) welcome change"? since when you idiot. YOU should be changed as the first order of business. after 8 and 6 years respectively, where has the change been? how long do you wait for change from coach and gm? until their contracts expire and your books are still in the black? "a frustrating season"?? it was a frustrating DECADE teddy boy and we are starting on another frustrating decade!!! well ted, you got continuity alright, more garbage to go along with past garbage. "our players need to play at a higher level"? hmmm how is that to happen and WHY aren't they playing at a higher level NOW??? they know the "accountability they all have" (angie and lovie)? that may be the biggest joke of all!!! who is accountable for piss poor drafts and piss poor coaching throughout this entire franchise for more than half a decade??? "a constant evaluation process" BY WHO YOU FREAKING IDIOT??? YOU??? how can you evaluate something you don't know a thing about?? "lovie is a tough coach and not because he is soft with his players"? what-ever!!! this guy is dilusional. "the lowest point in the season for me would have been cinncinnati"? without any doubt, my lowest point of the season is today listening to YOU. "the changes we are making now are not insignificant"???? are you serious? they are fluff and a slap to every fans face. just come out and say it's about money bean counter cause THAT is the truth!! "winning is paramount"? then why are we doing the same thing over and over and over especially when everyone but this organization knows exactly what the problems are? JERRY ANGELO: it was tough for lovie to make todays decisions (i assume firing turner and the other sacrificial lambs)? christ who is running this insane asylum? "we will have new coaches and new energy"? "hard to evaluate your own job" maybe THAT'S why we need someone in charge of YOU who knows jack about football... ya think ted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "we don't have a bad roster"? LOL!!!! he then says "we had problems on defense because of personnel and scheme"? i thought you have a wonderful roster angie. he then proceeds to evade questions, sidestep, and throw out meaningless nothing. "we (coaching personnel) work good together as a team" he just signed his death warrant when lovie fails. these clowns think they don't have to recruit coaches they will just flock here because we are the chicago bears. TOTAL CRAP!! LOVIE SMITH: he is "excited to remain in his position" hell what failure wouldn't be excited to be paid millions to continue to do the poor job he has done? he seems to be happy with our successful scheme and will continue running it. "it worked for our superbowl year". good god what an idiot!! this is just one of the reasons you freaking LOST. because it didn't work!!! "there were times this past year we were a good football team"? another delusional imbecile. is happy with and relying on what we have done the past two weeks. arrogant fool. "there is only so many coverages you can play"? now there is innovation. "we just didn't have a good year. simple as that." sorry but it's a LOT more than that. there is a reason why you have failed not only this year but at the very least over the last 3. sorry, but this guy has even less of a clue than my worst nightmare could ever indicated. and HE says... "lots of coaching candidates wanting to come here". like WHO? other has-beens or cronies you worked with before who have also failed and want to stay out of the bread line? as vinnie once said... everthing these guys just said is bull$%!# welcome to the same ole same ole. after the dust settled today, is there ANYBODY besides some of the talking heads in the media that really believes this franchise is NOT cheap?? in the past i have speculated in each of my posts that the mccaskey's "could" be cheap and explained in detail how that "could" be so. now i can flat out say there is no "could" about it. the chicago bear franchise is >>>CHEAP if not explain to me how these moves have been made, or not made, to make us a better team in 2010 (maybe they believe the world will end in 2012 so why worry about it anyway)? we still have a BAD president, we still have a BAD gm, and we still have a BAD coaching staff. good god, the price of failure is a promotion in this sorry excuse of a franchise as long as you work cheap and keep your mouth shut. here folks is what a grim future we have to look forward to... 1. we are going to run the same flawed poor system in defense we have for 6 years even after it has been proven on the field a failure. if lovie hasn't made any adjustments or changes in this defense in SIX YEARS how long does it take him to get it and what hope have we he will in the future? what is going to be different next year or the year after? the hope for better players to play in a BAD system that will bring the level of play up to mediocre? just for curiosities sake what do we now call baboonich? has he been demoted from his DC position now or is he the co-owner of this edsel of a defense? please tell me, even without his buddy marinelli who in the holy hell would come into this system as a lovie puppet with no control of his own defense that is worth a tinkers dam? even if we improve to say a 10 and 6 team and make an in-and-out appearance as a wild card is that enough to keep lovie and angelo on after NEXT year? can this system we employ really win us superbowls (plural)? how long do we hang around in this type of slot before we finally realize the system is flawed and clean house? long enough to burn out our franchise qb's chances to really make a difference in chicago and be real perenial superbowl contenders? we are wasting a franchise qb's productive years by keeping this mess in motion and it just proves we wouldn't know what to do with one if we had one. 2. we are keeping a gm who has exactly done what? left us with a talent pool similar to when wanny was demoted and eventually fired. hell, even throwing darts at a list of draft names on the wall ANYONE could have picked as well or better than jerry angelo over EIGHT FREAKING YEARS!!! plus, as gm does he really have the power of a gm anyway? if so is it his decision to keep lovie and the rest of the idiots and think that by adding yet more cronies to lovies staff is fooling anyone? just what purpose does this drone serve?? just another body to divert attention from the owners complete incompetence and take their heat? 3. we still have nobody in this entire franchise who knows anything more than the failure gm we still employ or what to do about it. the president running this zoo is a football imbecile yet he controls the health of this franchise in his leger book. it's disgusting. 4. owners: they are not only dumb, cheap owners they are stupid owners too. although there is nothing we can do with what we are saddled with, the owners of this franchise put more stock in dollars and CENTS than plain old common SENSE. they don't care about the fans, they really can't care whether the end results of the product they put on the field fails or not and in fact don't care about anything except the bottom line profits. final conclusions... the freaking planets actually aligned again (similar to when we passed on drew brees) and 3 superbowl winning very, very good football minds and head coaches appear on the market just when we desperately need a president, gm and head coach. as usual we do absolutely nothing and drag our feet until they are gone and give a vote of confidence to losers we owe money to. it's business as usual at halas hall.

seriously. maybe he doesn't want to end his nfl career by tying his can to lovie's falling star. if he moved up and lovie fails again he goes down further in the nfl hierarchy and maybe has a hard time finding any work for a while. in any case he must not have much if any faith in lovie pulling out of this flat spin.

hmmmm a coach that has done nothing except broke records in detroit for losing. a coach who came here and i certainly don't see any drastic results and he refuses to move into a position he has never had before. if true just how bad will their second choice be? LOL

and then it's deja' vu all over again. no substance just smoke and mirrors.

even if we made one hire (that being a new knowledgeable president of football operations with power to hire and fire) i would be happier than just bringing in another 'head coach in training' hired by imbeciles. at least we would be starting at the freaking core of the problem with this franchise instead of changing the train wreck end results that the people in power put there. if we keep angelo, phillips and again hire some untested nobodies then what is the point of firing this coaching staff at all? we might just as well let lovie and the rest of the incompetents play out their string. as i see it, who would choose the new unproven coaching staff? the same guy that chose the current one? the one who is tied to an incompetent unknowledgeable presidents purse strings? the guy who not only can't judge or draft player talent but a guy who judges coaching talent even worse!!!?? is this the guy who extended jauron and shoop then fired them 2 years later, the guy who hired lovie and three offensive coordinators and signed off putting a moron in charge of our defense for 2 years? the guy who extended the current staff and now 2 years later wants to fire THEM? if it's not him making these catastrophic moves but our idiot president then just what good is he anyway? having said that i still have to ask.... if you say you don't think it's money that will keep this midget clown car full of mental midgets in chicago then what is it? if it's not money why would you keep angelo OR lovie? they both have failed miserably!! is the only other possible conclusion that phillips AND the mccaskey's are complete football idiots and don't know any better??? so in talking about grimm or someone like him everyone believes he will be basically an angelo puppet without teeth? why would we want someone who is subservient to angelo if everyone including you thinks angelo is an idiot??? what have we gained by that other than another coaching test period and wasted years waiting for him to have his chance to succeed or FAIL? we know what these primo coaches are capable of so why gamble on complete unknowns yet again? who hired turner? lovie? what top notch head coach have we ever hired with the exception of wanny? they were all bottom feeders who worked for peanuts. don't you see any difference when you hire someone with a reputation of already having done it before and done it well? i think you need to look at what we paid our head coaches who have started here recently. lovie's payscale was at the bottom of the league when we hired him. what do you think his assistants were paid? how could we lure good assistant talent without paying them anything? lofty dreams? to do what is sane and intelligent to run a freaking sporting franchise? no, it takes common sense and opening up your wallet. nothing more and nothing less. grimm being the realistic solution? to what? more mediocrity? hey he could turn out to be a HOF coach in the future but right now with this franchise it's yet another HUGE gamble/mistake to bring in an unknown. and this reasoning means just what? why go for the brass ring if you could fall off this merry-go-round to nowhere? we are not like other teams. we have never tried it...EVER!!! right now we need a good president of football operations to start out with then good talent evaluators and scouts, then a good GM, and THEN a good coaching staff. since we don't have a good president AND we don't have a good GM (and it appears unlikely we will get one) it is imperative we have a PROVEN, excellent coaching staff to even have a chance. yet all i hear is what we can settle for which is what we have settled for over the last 20+ years. the russ grimms or himendingers or jaurons or lovie whoevers.

i totally do not agree with this. sitting on your hands IS something CHEAP teams do when there are THREE top notch good coaches with superbowl experience and your coaching candidates have been putrid for decades. this could be a once in a lifetime experience and we, as usual, do nothing. i don't care how many assistants or college coaching candidates others hire. WE need someone with experience on how to run this team. as far as surrounding yet ANOTHER amateur with experienced assistants.... is any head coaching candidate worth $%!& not going to want to bring in his own assistants? who in his right mind would be saddled with that kind of system? also what are you going to pay this inexperienced head coach? less than what you pay your experienced coordinators? it's just another freaking mess we will end up with and waste another 4-6 years in which time cutler will be about ready to retire. we always compromise for 2nd and 3rd tier management. isn't it time for a real change?

rather than putting a bandaid on a blown off leg and hiring yet ANOTHER head coach in training if there is only one change this cheap organization makes i HOPE it is replacing ted phillips with someone who is football savvy as president and let him make the decisions for our future. we already missed out on holmgren. could we offer ron wolf the freaking moon to become the president of this sorry arced franchise? we have to start at the top and work down (or is that giving the mccaskey's too much credit for intelligence?) or i see us doing this all yet again in 2014. give him total power over football operations to hire/fire a gm and work with that gm to bring in a head coach and a new scouting department. if not wolf find someone who is not only football smart but who has experience. start calling NOW before everyone is gone yet again (this should have been done at the very latest LAST season). this is the best start we can hope for to really make any impact on this franchises future.

and it begins again. even IF this franchise comes to any conclusions in regards to the status of their president, gm, head coach, etc. etc. all the top talent will be long gone and we will either make due with what we have or settle for the 3rd or 4th best candidate out there. this is just one reason why this franchise continues to spin it's wheels and has gone absolutely nowhere year after year. they never plan for ANY contingencies and seem genuinely surprised as to the well being of their OWN team when it fails. all this while the fans and the freakin media have had it figured out for months, years or decades. so salute', ted the bean counter, your job is secure (whatever that may be).

i commented on this in a previous post... is there a method to this madness? by dragging their penny loafers they save on two fronts. 1. they don't have to pay (yet again) another coach under contract to go away, no matter how bad, or what this does to the future health of this franchise in time lag. 2. they don't have to pay a high end coaching prospect the kind of money he will demand from this organization. by the time we fire the drones currently in chicago the best coaching prospects will be virtually gone. they won't have to answer to the media or their fan base as to why we didn't go after prime coaching targets. this is basically the same process we used in finding a gm. at this point i just can't believe anyone doesn't believe these moves/non-moves are not a byproduct of this organizations cheapness. how can anyone explain that you don't do what is good for the franchise because of the amount of the money they could 'possibly' spend in a non cap season is the reason that they sit on their hands?

if this franchise does decide to keep angelo, which i think is a mistake, then it is even more important to hire a president/vice in charge of football operations that is knowledgeable to oversee this portion of our team. someone who has the smarts to have input and say no to angelo in regards to drafts and free agent acquisitions and restructure our scouting department. i just fear if we dump angelo and hire a two position gm/coach we will end up like seattle in 4 years after holmgren's failure. the problem i see with gm/coaching is problems that arise from player contract negotiations and trading/cutting players not to mention assistants. it just breeds distrust between players, assistant coaches and your gm/coach. plus it is too much of a work load combining these two different type of duties on a single person and neither position gets the full attention of the candidate. gruden scares the hell out of me at this point. at one time i was on his bandwagon but after seeing this guy in the media i think he is loony-toons and don't want any part of him. actually i would have thought that cowher would have been the front runner who wanted control of the gm position rather than shanny. shanny just got fired for basically the same thing that happened to holmgren in seattle. the failure of both jobs combined in coach/gm. in either case if we keep angelo it would be to our benefit if either coach, shanny or cowher, had at least some teeth in regards to drafting, scouting and free agents. that is one reason why i would like to see a new president to avoid this type of mess.

as far as who... i don't even know who is out there and what qualifications any of them at this point have. this is just one problem with the structure in chicago. we have a president who is football dumb and nobody in upper management to trust with any decisions as important as hiring a gm. THIS is the reason i wanted to hire a holmgren type president or if phillips thinks he needs control of the reins then hire a football minded vice president in charge of football operations. then a holmgren or someone knowledgeable can make the decision to either hire a separate gm OR hire the coach/gm type of person like cowher/shanny to wear both hats. that way there is accountability overseeing the important gm portion of this franchise and advise or work with him in the gm type duties. if things didn't work out he can demote the gm responsibility from the coach and go with an actual GM to oversee this portion of operations. also this president/vice president can oversee the scouting department which is critical at this juncture.

if a miracle happens and we dump the garbage in chicago i don't want to bring in a coach with the mantle of GM. even with a cowher or shanny i think it would be a mistake to give either this dual role because it just doesn't work. that is not to say i want to handcuff either of these quality type coaches to have no say in FA personnel or especially the draft. at the least they should work with someone similar to the way cowher worked with colbert in pitt but in any event it is just too much for a coach to fill in both roles by himself and be good at either. also in my opinion we are going to have to shake up the scouting department along with any qualified gm we hire as it seems the number, talent or responsibilities of our scouts is lacking.

at this point right now if he is not average or even below average what do YOU think he is? you stated he shouldn't be considered an average type player yet you have even stated in this same thread that you don't think he was worth even a 7th round pick. so what makes average to you? i look at gaines adams RDE as not only someone who fits both of those definitions but who was supposedly brought in to replace who? wally our LEFT defensive end who has averaged over 6 sacks per season and at least has had double digit sacks in his career whose contract is up this season? or are we replacing alex brown who has averaged over 5 sacks per year who is still under contract? or mark anderson as a rotational backup DE whose contract is also up? 1. average - i am not talking about 'potential' or draft day speculation but the facts and statistics adams has shown, not in college, but in the nfl. after TWO coaching schemes, below, this is his portfolio before being traded for a 2nd round draft pick... "Adams, the fourth overall pick in the 2007 draft, had been a disappointment in his first two seasons under coach Jon Gruden. He was supposed to get a fresh start under coach Raheem Morris. Morris singled out the 6-foot-5, 258-pound defensive end on the opening day of training camp, saying Adams would be considered a "bust" if he didn't post double-digit sacks this season." http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4567083 he is a RDE who so far has shown to be even less of a player than we currently have under contract in alex brown which incidently both seem to be destined for 6-7 sacks per season. 2. reach - we have traded away a potential high first day pick in the hopes that our system or coaching staff can turn his careeer around from poor to mediocre even after seeing the results of playing 2 season in tampa just because he was drafted high. that's not a classic example of an angelo reach? really? let's see... S: dime a dozen? he drafted 7 safeties in 8 years. a safety high in round 2 (which i might add was our FIRST pick in the 2006 draft), 2 in the 4th round, and 2 in the 5th round. all the while he had mike brown as a lock starter at one safety position for 6-7 years of his tenure. LB: in 8 years of drafts we drafted 8 linebackers. 7 of them for depth?? we had a lock in the middle with url and ONE of his early 3rd round draft picks, his second draft in 2003, was playing well enough to be going to a pro-bowl within 3 years. can anyone doubt that the great 3rd round pick okwo was drafted to replace briggs if he didn't come under contract? how much is a 3rd round pick worth to beat down a pro-bowl backers contract demands? where is the future mike replacement for an aging url? how nice would it have been to have a good + strong side backer over the years? DE: huh? not invested huge? in 8 years we drafted 7 defensive ends. 3 of those are first day picks with not a single starter!! haynes rd. #1, bazuin rd. #2, and gilbert rd. #3. add 2 more 4th rounders and after all this we have ONE defensive end who is may be average or a bit above? can you name a reach for angie in this group? who did we draft again to replace our average, according to angelo, RDE (a. brown)? DT: we drafted 6 tackles and not a single one below the 5th round. in fact 4 were first day picks. see any reaches in this bunch? that comes out to a total of 7 first day picks for our DL and we have one quality player, t. harris, who is injured (or sucks or who knows what) and one 4th round RDE who is average. question his ability to evaluate? isn't that the reason we are writing threads like this? if he could evaluate ANY talent on either side of the ball would any of this be needed? little surprise? are you serious? I'M surprised!!!!!! if anybody expected him incapable to judge and draft offensive talent then just what is he doing in a GM's position? this falls also right on our glorious bean counting president and the glorious, faceless company that chose angelo, after months of deliberation, as a candidate.

here's the problem... this is the same crap angelo has been doing since he got here. replacing defensive players up for contract (or he plans on cutting) who are average and replacing them with average/reach players either in the draft or in free agency. he has done it at safety, DE, DT and LB. it's like a freaking defensive merry-go-round. all this time he neglects drafting quality players for the holes in this team that take TIME to develop such as qb or offensive linemen and the only reason i can think of why, is he: 1. wants players 'supposedly' ready to contribute immediately to cover his arse. 2. is keeping this team in money to enhance the cap by bringing in players to compete with others to knock down present player upcoming salary requirements. 3. is plain stupid and couldn't tell a good offensive player from a red assed baboon (which bandwagon >>I

i have heard this before about brian. is it possible one person of this family really knows something about football? i don't know. at this time i want ted replaced with someone who can oversee football operations with a degree of talent, skill and an eye for the future. can he do this? if not is he sensible enough to hire a vice pres that is to oversee football operations? as far as fisher? sure i would love him in chicago as i feel he is one of the best coaches in the nfl. but is this whistling past the graveyard? i believe he is locked up in tenn forever. if that owner dumps fisher i would be on it in a heartbeat but i just don't see it happening.

2009 fact: 1. the salary cap has accelerated over the life of the contract. at this time each team is ‘required’ to spend at least 87.6% of this cap money on player salaries in 2009. 2. the salary cap for 2009 is approximately $128 million dollars. nearly $12.8 million dollars of this allotted player salary money doesn’t have to be paid to player salary if the team chooses not to. see http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...any-other-team/ for some interesting start of season stats. 3. owners get a share of the gross along with the players salary allotment. this is theirs to do as they wish and be considered profit after expenses are paid out for non-player items. now... please answer this question first. do you believe that the money that the league allots each franchise to pay player salaries, per the agreed player/owner contract (salary cap), should entirely go to player salaries, when possible, or do you believe the owners are entitled to portions of this money also and should take amounts of this player allotted money for themselves as profit? if you said ‘yes’ the owners should consider portions of this money allotted to pay player salaries as a given right for them to use as yearly profit structure then you might as well stop reading right here and not waste your or my time any further. =============================================================== if you said no: how could i claim that a team paying out more money per year, caused by a lump sum player bonus added to player salaries, than the actual salary cap allotment each year is and pay this money STRICTLY out of the salary cap allotment and never take a penny out of the owners collective pockets? that is a crazy statement. it makes no sense. or does it? here is an example of what i would do if i were the owner: every year i am allotted X amount of dollars out of the collective gross money taken in by the nfl to pay my players their salaries and bonuses. THE TAKE: 1. nearly every year my player salary commitments don’t match the full extent of the money assigned from the salary cap figures assigned by the nfl. it just stands to reason. this excess gives me some room to maneuver. even so, every year i plan to keep some money aside (that i don’t pay out in immediate salary) after the season starts. i keep some floating cash out of player salary money set aside (as from above for example) in case there are injuries during the season and i have to bring in other players off the wire to fill in these vacated slots. ALL this is money from the salary cap. sounds pretty reasonable doesn’t it? 2. the total amounts listed above can vary between $.5 and $10 + million dollars PER YEAR and probably averages around $3-5 million dollars per year over the life of the salary cap. this money not paid out during the season can NOT be added to the following years salary cap spending allotment. it is player allotted money that is now mine to do with as i wish. so what i am going to do is put that excess money above into a separate interest bearing CD, savings account or whatever i wish, than the money, i as a franchise, was allotted for my owners share in the CBA. 3. every year i have an option in regards to my players, that are negotiating contracts, to offer more money to them if they reach certain game time incentives. how this works is i now count THIS amount of money against this seasons salary cap (per the contract). if the player doesn’t reach these *incentives then this amount of money is rolled over into the following years cap allotment. but what do i do with it now? i put this portion of THIS years salary cap that MAY have to be paid in incentives into my account above. however many millions of dollars this may be i now can make interest on money that is not mine (that i may not even payout) for up to 12 months. how much money do you think i could collect over a 25 year period doing this and putting in my separate account with compound interest and every penny has been taken out of player salary cap money? THE STING but what about paying out $10-20 million dollar bonuses up front? it surely isn’t possible to give these huge amounts of up front money without it coming out of my very own personal bank account is it? the answer is absolutely yes. but would i want to? hmmmm..... how the salary cap works in regards to bonus money: although bonus money is/can be paid out in a lump sum by each franchise it is amortized by the nfl over the life of the players contract (a MAXIMUM of 6 years) to be taken out yearly from each individual years allotted salary cap until it is paid in full back to the owner. well... how would i do it then? just for simplicity let’s assume i signed a player to a 5 year contract and gave him a $10 million dollar signing bonus. this means that over the next 5 years i deduct $2 million dollars out of the money supposed to go to player salaries, the salary cap, and pay myself back this portion of money i paid this individual player upfront. there are 3 ways i could do this. 1. i as a corporation, borrow $10 million dollars from a bank with a **secured loan for 5 years. each year i take $2 mil from the allotted salary cap and pay this to the bank. that means that in year 1 i am paying interest on the full amount. year 2 on $8 mil principle, year 3 $6 mil and so on until the loan is paid in full. but how is the interest paid without me coming up with a huge amount of my personal money involved? i use the money from the separate account i listed above. the excess salary cap money, the $.5-10 million dollars i have set aside from the player salary allotment and don’t use that season to pay the interest (which goes down every year as the loan principle is paid). 2. as a corporation, after 20 years of putting in the excess amounts of salary cap that i did not use, along with the compound interest on it, i should easily be able to remove that amount to pay cash on that $10 million dollar bonus. 3. here is what i would prefer to do: loan my corporation $10 million dollars to pay the bonus out of my own personal bank account. that way i can charge my own corporation higher interest rates than i could get from depositing my money in a bank. i have a secured personal loan and my corporation could then write off interest payments on their/my tax returns. *any bank would loan these amounts to a billion dollar corporation with a loan that is guaranteed to be paid back by a multi-billion dollar corporation and loan it at very goood interest rates. **UNSPENT CAP MONEY 1. “Jason Cole Yahoo Sports March 10, 2009: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-u...o&type=lgns Even with teams spending nearly half a billion dollars on player contracts since the free agency period started Feb. 29, here is a staggering statistic to consider: There’s still approximately $480 million in unused salary cap money. According to figures kept by the NFL Players Association and updated through last Thursday, each of the league’s 32 teams had an average of $15 million in unused salary cap space. Though a quarter or more of that collective money will be used to sign rookies after the draft in April, teams still figure to have around $360 million in remaining salary cap space going into the 2008 season. Barring unilateral raises for all players, much of that money will go unspent.” how much money does the bears NOT spend per year from the salary cap? where does this money go? in the owners pocket. ***INCENTIVE CAP ROLLOVERS just one instance - incentive credit of more than $9 million for cornerback marcus hamilton - rollover in incentives - where did this money come from? the salary cap allotment. how much interest on $9m a year and WHERE does that interest money go? in the owners pocket. i act like what is “purely about money”? i understand there are various things involved to state with unmitigated authority that the mccaskey family are cheap owners. i have not done that. some facts and information do lead me to believe there is a reasonable ‘possibility’ they are. if you will note that nearly every discussion on this subject we have had, i put in the qualification of “POSSIBILITY”. that is my personal opinion. but, what i won’t leave on the table are the references so many point to, without reservation, to claim that they are not cheap for certain specific reasons that can be proven false. you keep bringing up jerry jones and dan snyder. these people are so over the top and in my opinion franchise insane that whatever these people do is no indication what good owners try to employ as a viable system. even saying that, i have to give jones and snyder some credit for at least trying to bring in the best in the business occasionally whether their individual systems work or not. also, are you are saying i am not competent enough to comprehend if we had an owner who is a meglomaniac like jones as you can? if so... whatever. money talks and bull$%!# walks. you say what differs between jones and our franchise is “not money spent on coaches”? name every head coach, every top coordinator with the lone exception of dave wannstedt (who was hired by mikey) this franchise has EVER hired that was a top dollar top prospect coach. yet i have read numerous times on this board you yourself stating that lovie won’t be fired because of the cost of his dead salary is too high for our owners to swallow. who you crappin? you say structure? do you believe if virginia didn’t want the idiot bastards son kept out of harms way she would have put in her, totally unqualified to run a franchise, bean counter ted phillips to lower the heat? as bad a rod graves may have been working under mikey do you believe phillips could get a job with any other franchise as president or even GM? really?? do you know how long it took us to build the training facilities in lake forest and how long they were needed? did our owners build ANY stadiums in the entire franchises history? ok let’s look at wanny. you say not cheap and i agree but let’s also be honest. wanny was considered the GM also so that’s 2 salaries for one price. now let’s go back in our recent past. why wasn’t dave mcginnis hired in chicago? how many different reasons? for that matter, why was dick jauron? why ted phillips? how about jerry angelo? how about lovie smith? it was a choice between him and freaking russ grimm? after all, considering we have won ONE superbowl in 45 years why would you consider trying something different. is the mccaskey family somehow dumber than the entire collective of chicago media and fans? we have never hired a head coach who even has been a head coach in the nfl. NEVER. that is an amazing record for a franchise in the league for over 80 years. why do you think that is? we have never hired any top college coaching HC prospect in our entire history. why do you think that is? and yes, player salaries DO-NOT-MATTER in this particular determination. finally...... “Honestly, if you are not going to factor player salaries, I really don't see what distiguishes one owner from the next.” you really see no difference between one owner and the next except for what they pay their players in salary????? that is an amazing statement to admit to.

no, halas hiring ditka was not outside the box. that was what g. halas did to a fault. he hired bear personnel or ex-bear players nearly exclusively. ditka fit into this mold perfectly and was one of the main reasons that it was the beginning of the end for finks. by this time muggs halas had died and george halas forced ditka into the head coaching position without consent or approval of his GM. i believe finks never thought ditka was the best choice for chicago. again your history is faulted. pardee was a choice of finks and muggs halas. in fact i believe he was the first coach hired by finks in 1975. to his credit he took a woeful bear team and turned them within 3 years into a playoff contender. after that 9-5 playoff season, 1977 (the year i truly became a rabid cowboy hater forever), he mysteriously left chicago rather than renew his chicago HC contract to coach the washington redskins. this is the reason i hate THIS guy forever. neil armstrong also was a choice of finks and armstrong again had viking ties. although he had one winning season. it was a playoff year as the bears caught a wildcard spot in '79. not a real good coach in my opinion. ditka started out as a TE's coach and later became special teams coach. whether he was an assistant or not and what that means i don't know. it seems to me like "assistant coach" is some buzz word of the 90's for coaches you wanted to keep under contract.

here is where muggs halas came into the picture. he was the break the mold exec in this organization. he brought in finks who was related to the vikings organization (along with buddy ryan). this was nearly unheard of at the time by the founder. george halas hired former bear personnel nearly exclusively into top positions. this is why ditka (i am nearly positive was a TE's coach in dallas) was considered by halas and force fed to finks. this was the beginning of the end of finks in chicago. in truth over the long run ditka was a poor coach overall. if we had had an innovator as HC we should have won at least 3 SB's in that era.

i want again to qualify that the statements i make below are not necessarily a 'positive' indication one way or the other in regards to the frugality of our owners before i start and that i have no ax to grind with arkush. but... just how far back is hub talking about when he states "ownership is far from cheap today"? if it is since mikey was kicked upstairs i have to 'possibly' disagree or at the very least question his conclusions. hub seems to take a simplistic formula that has no hard facts to reach the final results he uses to justify his comments. 1. does anyone believe, ANYONE, that dick jauron's final year in chicago wasn't due to the amount of money still owed him on his contract extension? if you believe this was the case then the ownership put money ahead of quality and the desire to win. strike one. 2. hub is again incorrect if he believes that paying players salaries and bonuses is any indication of an owner being cheap or not. the salaries are doled out by the league to owners and pay nearly if not EVERY penny of salary and bonus money to players. it just is not an *indication of “cheapness” or frugality in todays nfl to spend up to the salary cap. strike two. 3. if lovie and/or angelo are retained, even after their previous salary extensions, after seeing the complete failure this season AND last the only conclusion to me is that they were either retained because of salary commitments due OR a complete lack of football intelligence (or both). as far as lovie’s salary... this is also completely false as any indicator of cheapness on the part of our owners. the same can be said of jerry angelo and dick jauron. you don’t look at the final amount of paid salary as the indicator but you have to average the cost over the entire tenure of his/their duties in chicago. all three of these key people were paid a pittance, at the bottom of the league as starting salaries during their time in chicago. this had a two sided benefit for ownership A. they hired personnel who were inexperienced at their jobs and worked cheap because of it. whether the quality in their staffs was there or not was of little concern. if you paid the leader so little how could he hire the most competent, quality, assistant coaches or scouts or player personnel assistants for more money than their head coach or the gm? you now have a second rate foundation to build your franchise upon to start with. B. even when/IF the people (HC, GM) you hired do an admirable job and you give them a good comparable salary increase extension you still can average that amount over the length of time that person was working for you and it’s still a bargain basement salary. but, this also leads to the question of the quality of the cheap personnel under this ‘leader’. do you now go out and seriously look for quality replacements for the people your head coach or gm have worked with to even get into a position to get a salary/contract extension? have you passed up quality assistants over the years while these people were proving their ability or not and actually hurt the quality of your team not only in the past but in the future? that will be strike three and hub’s statement that this organization isn’t cheap due to the reasons he suggests is a complete fallacy. IF we see a complete shakeup of the hierarchy of this franchise this year which would include coaching, gm and president (or even hire a vice president in charge of football operations) then there will be something solid to hang your hat on that our owners really may not be cheap and want to commit to winning above all in the nfl. *UNLESS that team continually does what bidwell did of paying his players nothing and pocketing ‘huge chunks’ of their salary allocation from the salary cap every year as was done in the cards PAST. that was obviously CHEAP and bidwell i believe was being censured/forced by the league to pay out more in salaries to his players in that era.

well, then if you "don't think the individuals are so great" why don't you? you believe they spend plenty of money, they keep their collective noses out of football operations, they have hired a president you approve of to run the franchise. what is left? 'speculation' that mike mccaskey MAY take over the presidents duties if phillips is moved into a different job in the franchise? that's it? in regards to the rooney family and what i REALLY said: i stated "the rooney family is one of the founders of the NFL. unlike our mccaskey's they seem to understand what it takes to run an organization in this era." you stated "Pitt is family owned. Like Chicago. Oh, and by the way, we too are a one of the founders of the NFL." if this doesn't imply both families are on a level playing field running a franchise what does it say? catch-22: you state you are not content with phillips overseeing football operations? then just who makes the decisions to hire and fire a gm (the guy you say should be in charge of football operations)? you don't want the mccaskey's to do it and you imply you wouldn't be "content" with phillips overseeing this important part OF football operations. that leaves what/who exactly? we have failed to address some of the most important aspects of a franchise, hiring a competent gm, for over two decades. is it possible we are doing it wrong and need a change? or should we just keep plodding on and on and on the same way making the same mistakes? i would like to infer back to the 70's when we did have a competent president/vice president (i am more concerned with the position than the title. if it's vice pres instead of pres i have no problem with that aspect of just a name) in muggs halas. this was someone who DID understand football and the importance of bringing us into the modern era of football to win. HE was instrumental in bringing jim finks into our outdated system. yet he was still competent enough to realize if finks failed in his duties and what to do about it. why do you think the nfl would have wanted to push us into ANY partnership let alone one that is this important? have they done this to anyone else? or is it only us because we had and still have nobody competent enough to make a good decision of that magnitude. they were tired of the stupidity of this franchise embarrassing the league!!! yet everyone including you seems content to repeat this again with basically no substantive changes having been made in a decade since it was enforced. we traded mikey for ted. you say you are willing to give ted another chance. at what? hiring a firm to find us a GM? or of possibly wasting another 4 years to see if ted somehow has grown football knowledge over the last 8+ years? after watching angelo waste 8 years of drafts and having no input with our GM for doing that, where is the hope for something substancially better from him?? previous quote of mine: "my crazy ideas... 1. hire a true professional that understands the football side of operations and who has the knowlege and expertise to 'hire' and fire a GM and understand the why of both. someone who can oversee various departments like college scouting and the draft. title? president." here is one: http://www.packers.com/team/staff/murphy_mark/ a team that finds good talent nearly every draft. even if you want to go further back look at bob harlan who instrumented the hiring of gm ron wolf. harlan was at one time an assistant GM in green bay and had tons of football experience in management. one item... i never said my way was the "only way" and right for every franchise. what i did say is that it is right for OURS because we lack anyone in authority with credible football intelligence, at least that i know of. if not a way to break out of this circle of madness then i would like to hear other alternatives different from the same old same old that have failed in chicago for years. what is YOUR solution?

a good #1 and 2 but i don't like chucky at all anymore. at one time i thought he would be a good choice but after seeing what he did with the bucs and actually listening to him on the nfl channel and monday night football i think he is freaking nuts.

after boiling all this down this is what you are saying... 1. you have no problem with ownership. the mccaskey's are running this franchise just as well as the new england patriots and are as knowlegible as the rooney family when it comes to football knowlege and operations because they are related to george halas. they are completely blameless if the football operations in this franchise fail. 2. having said the previous you are content with ted phillips overseeing football operations in this franchise and are content with whatever process he chooses our GM with. being the president he doesn't need to know anything except how to structure contracts and be a lie'ason with the public to perform his duties. 3. you are ok with no accountability from anyone in upper management, especially our team president, if our current GM fails or our future GM's fail. the blame can be attributed to nameless, faceless corporations that find these key people for us. (incidently i would like you to post the facts with links to show how many other franchises choose their GM's this way and their success rate). my crazy ideas... 1. hire a true professional that understands the football side of operations and who has the knowlege and expertise to 'hire' and fire a GM and understand the why of both. someone who can oversee various departments like college scouting and the draft. title? president. 2. have this knowlegable president hire a new GM to run hands-on football operations and oversee the progress the new GM does or doesn't make. 3. have this GM accountable for drafting quality picks and players that are a need and have a GM that can see the long term effect of these drafts and how players will relate to the future health of the franchise. have this new GM hire a new coaching staff that is qualified and not just working cheap to break into the head coaching position. something novel like one with previous head coach experience in the nfl and offense oriented.

first off, i never stated there weren't multiple owner structures in the nfl. but what concerns me and what i am talking about is OUR'S. lets look at the bears management structure: 1. imbecile owners: according to you, you don't believe the mccaskey's at this time are involved with control of the football side of this franchise. by changing the president of football operations you believe the mccaskey's, specifically mikey, will fall into the 'presidents' spot and then take control. so, at this time they 'supposedly have no say in personnel decisions and defer total control of football operations to an ACCOUNTANT. how really dumb is that if true? that leaves... 2. president and #1 bean counter ted phillips: someone who not only stated but who has PROVEN he knows nothing about running the football side of the franchise. when mikey was kicked upstairs ted phillips didn't have the football brains to even begin to know how or where to find a GM to replace the idiot bastards son. so, he had to hire ANOTHER corporation to find one which it took months to do. so it seems like a good idea that when you next fire your GM (it does happen) that you now have to hire someone to figure out who to hire again because the president of our franchise has no clue and those above him are not involved? hmmm... even IF we fired angelo who is going to decide who replaces him? the same corporation? what are their credentials? giving us angelo?? if so, months later the availability of most free GM's and football minds are GONE again and you end up with the slop in the bottom of the bucket that will work cheap AGAIN. also, does it also stand to reason he has no clue on what to do with our college and pro scouting staffs? does he have any input on draft day? but then how important could that be? seems laughable doesn't it. that leaves... (drumroll).......ta DA!!!..................... 3. GM jerry angelo: whos bio reads... "He was handed the reins of the Chicago Bears football operations on June 12, 2001 as the team's first general manager since 1986 (Jerry Vainisi). Angelo has 40 years of football experience, including 20 as a NFL scout and 22 in the NFC North Division (includes 15 years in former NFC Central Division). He oversees the Bears entire football staff including football operations, personnel and coaching along with all decisions regarding the draft, free agency, trades and the salary cap." that folks, is IT!! we have no checks and balances. our GM is in charge of everyone and everything involving the actual football side of our entire franchise!! so in essense we have nobody in the entire upper AND lower structure of management who even KNOWS enough about football operations to not only make a judgement on our GM's performance but who to replace him with if they did!!! seems to me THAT'S why you would hire a president who understands the WHOLE picture and not someone who's claim to fame is his niche on how to structure the freaking salary cap and communicate with city and state officials. THIS is why a mike holmgren type for president would be a very good move by the corporate management of this franchise. it would give us checks and balances on the football side of running this franchise instead of putting it all on one individual, angelo, and expecting him to manage or fire himself. THIS is your "we live in reality" reality. you say you want to "fire" everyone below ted to keep this real. well who has enough authority or intelligence to make the decision to fire anyone in football operations if it isn't either our clueless president OR the mccaskey family? moving on: let's look at the pats management structure. true the president isn't possibly football savvy but look at the football side of the structure he is smart enough to establish. he has hired a verrrry capable vice president and senior football advisor who is also considered the GM. this is who their president replaced pioli with. they also have hired a director of player personnel to govern the day to day operations of the department. the supporting staff of these two leaders is large and capable. see any differences there like maybe checks and balances and accountability? pats: 1. Jonathan Kraft - President Jonathan A. Kraft is the president and chief operating officer for The Kraft Group, the holding company of the Kraft family's varied business interests. He is also the president of the threetime Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots. As president of the Patriots, Kraft oversees the management and strategic planning of each department within the organization. He also works closely with his father to represent the Patriots in all league matters and has served on multiple NFL owner committees. http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=...bio&bio=549 2. Senior Football Advisor - Floyd Reese Floyd Reese will enter his 33rd NFL season in 2009, including 18 seasons in player personnel and 15 seasons as an assistant coach. He joined the Patriots on January 27, 2009 after serving 13 seasons as the executive vice president/general manager of the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans franchise from 1994-2006. He also served as the assistant general manager of the Oilers for four seasons from 1990-93. Reese served as an assistant coach with Detroit (1975-77), San Francisco (1978), Minnesota (1979- 85) and the Houston Oilers (1986-89). http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=...o&bio=33602 3. Director of Player Personnel - Nick Caserio Nick Caserio was named director of player personnel on February 21, 2008, after serving in a number of roles for the Patriots' personnel department and coaching staff. He enters his ninth season with the Patriots in 2009 and his seventh season in player personnel. He will oversee the day-to-day operations of the department. http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=...o&bio=32456 ======================================================= you mention the steelers: the rooney family is one of the founders of the NFL. unlike our mccaskey's they seem to understand what it takes to run an organization in this era. look at the staff they employ and the differences between theirs and ours: http://news.steelers.com/team/frontoffice/ it's actually structured with checks and balances in most of the key areas and broken up into manageable divisions. the rooney's seem to HAVE the football savvy to understand what makes or breaks GM's and coaches and where to find one if needed. also look at their scouting personnel in football operations alone... "Football Operations Kevin Colbert, Director of Football Operations Doug Whaley, Pro Personnel Coordinator Ron Hughes, College Scouting Coordinator Joe Greene, Special Assistant Mark Gorscak, College Scout Phil Kreidler, Pro/College Scout Kelvin Fisher, College Scout Bruce McNorton, College Scout Dan Rooney, College Scout Dave Petett , Blesto Scout Bill Nunn, College Personnel Rob McCartney, Player Personnel Intern"

i disagree. ted phillips: a go between for the franchise and the city? negotiate stadium deals etc.? isn't this is why corporations hire PR men?although i have no problems with phillips as a senior accountant he has NO BUSINESS being the president of football operations, none what-so-ever. he is the most unqualified person for the job you could ask for to run a professional sporting organization. isn't it the job of the president to oversee how the entire football side of the organization is run and make personnel adjustments and changes when necessary? doesn't this INCLUDE the critical position of GM? doesn't it include input TO his GM in regards to the coaching staff hires and fires and the sizes of their staff, input or oversight of your college and PRO scouting departments? didn't we HIRE a firm to even FIND our GM in the first place? it took months for X's sake for them to find angelo who by that time nearly every qualified candidate was already taken????? THIS IS one portion of the job description of president of football operations. it's what football smart presidents do in good organizations. finally... who is going to decide if angelo is doing a bad job and who is going to steer him in a better direction if he wanders? your freaking accountant?? he has virtually no accountability other than keeping the books in the black and saving the mccaskey's every penny he can. as far as wishing for good management, is mikey the sword of damacles to keep us in mediocrity because if we want what is good for the franchise we are threatened with this troglodyte?

here is something to think about... right now there are an unprecedented amount of very good previous head coaches on the sidelines. bill couher, mike shannahan, and mike holmgren. besides FIRING lovie and staff would anyone like to see angie FIRED, ted phillips (a freaking BEAN COUNTER in charge of football operations) FIRED, and someone like holmgren come in as either our GM or team president of football operations? then hire a shannahan or couher as our head coach? instead... we owe lovie about $10 mil. whether this organization believes lovie is worth salvage or not, if they drag their collective feet they can save his salary AND not have to worry about paying REAL headcoaches top money to come here. by the time lovie is launched they are off the board (hired by other franchises like the freaking buffalo bills) and we do the same thing in the same way as we have done for decades. we hire some nobody and train *him for 2 years to see if he has it or not at some minimal salary like we ALWAYS do. if he even makes it to the playoffs we are so shocked by average success that we up his contract extention and we are stuck for at least 4-6 freaking years to eat up his salary even if he sucks or at best is average. THEN we fire this coach and angelo. it's dejavu all over again. *if anyone thinks hiring toub is the answer to ANYTHING as our head coach they are sadly mistaken. although it's a perfect move for the mccaskey's it is the same thing we always do.