Lucky Luciano

i think one of the things coll was talking about was that previously they showed the sidelines and cutler has the chalkboard writing up plays and talking to offensive players around him. the next series i believe he marched down the field and our offense looked reasonably sharp. during cutler writing this up, one of our coaches is halfway paying attention to what cutler is writing and watching the field with no input. later in a series it showed a coach (hamilton?) doing what cutler was doing on the sideline. that series we bombed. makes ya wonder don't it? i want to again comment on our beloved coaches clock management... just prior to the 2 min warning in the 4th qtr, the eagles got a very generous spot that gave them a first down. this in essence burns up a lot of clock left. lovie at that period decides to call a freaking timeout which i believe was our last and NOT throw a red flag to challenge the spot. it made absolutely NO sense to me at all. lovie should have challenged the spot especially in this instance as he had basically NOTHING to lose doing so since he used the timeout anyway. in fact IF we didn't have any more timeouts we couldn't even USE a flag if we wanted to OR couldn't use one within the last 2 min of the game anyway. these are the small/large things that lovie just doesn't seem to get. it's like his head is not in the game in a general sense and this can and has cost us big time. it's not like a first, this has happened before.

emphatically YES!!!! this is a freaking young qb. he NEEDS good coaching that obviously we don't have a clue how to give him. anybody that thinks orton would do better in this offense is dreaming.

n/m

for crying out loud i was making a generalization with that statement to give you ONE idea as to why this type of defense is utilized in todays nfl. yes, there are exceptions to nearly EVERY rule but generally if you don't have enough quality players in the league with the physical skills to run a man-to-man defense you design your system to use the players that are available to you. and just to set the record straight... the cover 2 defense DOES use other coverages more than half the time and some BEING man coverage. the "scheme" was created by bud carson when he was with the steelers in the 70's. it was brought back to life to counter the west coast offense of the 49ers of the 80's and 90's. but as a 'general' rule you can put players in your system at this point that are not fast enough or quick enough or big enough to play strickly man coverage. and why is that... there are about SIX new franchises in the nfl today. that means there are over 300 top players off the market compared to what was available in the draft after the merger. why do you think the draft went from 9+ rounds to what we have today? the top positions like qb, cb, de, and good tackles on both sides of the ball are the ones that suffered the most in quality but it trickled down to every position. you said teams were "actually drafting and signing players to fit that scheme". you don't think teams would draft players with the talent of dion sanders type of players if they were available to them in the draft? or run schemes differently if they could find players like ronnie lott, asomugha, bailey, or rolle? they draft and pickup free agent zone type players because that is what is available for the most part and what they can afford. tell me then... which cornerbacks are YOU talking about that can/could have actually played man-to-man coverage you have seen in chicago since lovie has been here. which ones had the skill, size and speed and were capable of playing man coverage? i WILL agree that no matter the talent we have or don't have, playing corners THAT far off the LOS is atrocious and a huge mistake. THIS i believe is on lovie and his scheme. i argue and HAVE been arguing that 'our' cover 2 corners do not help our pass rush and the reason being is that they can't play bump and run tight up to the LOS with ANY consistancy!! i contend that the reason they play off the LOS (again i don't think they should play as FAR as they do) is because they get beat when they play up. i can't believe anyone would think lovie smith, no matter how much they didn't like his defensive scheme, would purposely play corners that can play bump and run tight coverage and run the cover 2 like it is supposed to be run on paper that far off the LOS. it would be a testament to idocy if he played woodson caliber players back that far for no reason!! if he did/does he should have been fired long ago.

look, the definition of a free safety basically boils down to him playing center field. he can move anywhere on the field he thinks the ball is going in pass defense and is the 'safety' valve on any run plays that get past the middle defenders, but... if his 'assignment' was to cover or help cover X cornerbacks receiver off the LOS for whatever reason, that is double coverage. if a corner is designated in the scheme to play man coverage this free's up the free safety to make a decision as to where he believes he will do the most good whether it is helping out the #1 corner (yes, even your best cover corner) or the #2 corner by getting a read not only from the qb but by the formation or the personnel running it. this is where not only speed is a major plus but football inteligence is essential in making the right decision at the right time. so by having a cb able to supposedly cover man you usually help out the weak spot in your defense by doubling up your #2 corner or even helping out LB's or SS's covering TE's or slot receivers in the pattern. this in essense helps you DL by GIVING them time to get to the qb not only in 4-6 step drops, but in quick 2-3 step drops, that normally your line hasn't got a chance in hell of getting to (this is just one reason we are not getting pressure on the qb), by covering these quick hit receivers. let me start out by saying that i have NEVER stated a cover/shutdown cornerback would ever be preferred over a killer pass rushing defensive end. it just has not happened. in fact over many many years i have stated that a primo DE is the key to success in todays pass happy nfl and the most important player on your defense (which is why they are paid the most). but with that said there is NO reason you can't have your primo DE and a good+ cover corner. before the nfl went zone crazy this was the case. now we see tweener corners starting in the league because we have these cover-whatever schemes that try to compensate for lack of talent because there are so many franchises in the nfl and not enough good talent to go around. so when you GET the chance to pick one of these players up, if you have half a brain, you do it. let's face it, the best DE we have had since hampton/dent left was trace armstrong who that idiot wanny traded for a freaking punter. so that means we have had average to MAYBE good + defensive ends who would have been helped out immensley by picking up a very good cover corner like charles woodson!!!! instead we opted to go after zone type corners who do nearly nothing (and in our system DO absolutely nothing) that give our defensive linemen no help what-so-ever making a qb go through his reads and give them the time to even get to him. and peanut? peanut was good at what he did years ago which was cover the big receivers in our division like moss as a corner. since that time the nfl has changed and we are still in the same mode as 8 years ago only the guy we got to cover these large type of receivers is now expected to cover the like likes of steve smith, fitz and an abundance of quick speedy receivers off the line!!

speaking of helmet blows... the steelers seem to get away with murder (olson twice) using their helmets as weapons and not getting called for it. the backer, i believe his name is harrison? the all pro guy, does this about 2 or 3 times a game with no calls. it's obvious that the steelers must be taught this from their coaches as often as you see it from the LB's, safeties and corners.

no. if the CB is playing man-to-man coverage it is single coverage and the corner sinks or swims by his abilities to cover that receiver. if you don't believe me look it up. in regards to peanut, he would be considered a good to very good #2 corner or an all pro caliber free safety in the real world but nothing more, mainly because of his lack of top speed and quickness. if you throw in a safety and/or LB to help him out it is double (triple) coverage or a zone coverage and so-on and so-forth. this is why i want at least one excellent cover corner that can do this on the bears. it makes your defense exponentially better on so many levels.

well... here we agree. it's pure conjecture with no supporting evidence to speak of but if true, and this coaching staff was in the least bit competent, they would/should have intervened when the rumors etc. came out that the defense was trying to hurt benson in practice and put the brakes on that situation immediately. that is their freaking JOB. to ready the team with the best players possible to win football games. to play any kind of mind games with a player that highly drafted and taking up that much cap space is inexcusable and surely bound to hurt the team/franchise as a whole whether they were camping buddies with thomas jones or not.

huh? you do know man-to-man coverage is just that... one defender covering one receiver? you say you like that but we should have sent another defender to help him. that is double coverage and the whole point of my post.

ok. for the sake of international relations we can keep toub.

here is a question for you... why is peanut covering the best wide receiver in the entire nfl in man coverage? is it because he is one of the elite speed cover corners playing today? is it due to our really creative blitzing up the middle which has been wildly successful for over TWO years? is it due to the incredible chucks/bump-and-runs off the LOS our corners so often perform with precision and are noted for? is it because our defensive line is just so good, especially our ex-second round draft pick trade adams, that warner doesn't have time to take 2-3 step drops before throwing strikes? (even reggie white couldn't get there that fast) makes ya wonder don't it?

it's time to clean house starting at the top and working your way down to the parking attendants. 1. the entire coaching staff is DONE. i have had my fill after watching this unbelievable performance today. it is so inept i can hardly find words to express just how bad it is. no matter how good or bad our players are talent wise this game showed just how really incredibly bad coaches they are. it was like lifeless animation watching this team play uninspired football today. lovie... just what are you watching out there? please realize i don't need a lunatic coach like ditka by any means at all, but this poor excuse of a HC is in freakin limbo!!! after seeing the poor officiating out there in regards to no pass interference calls MULTIPLE TIMES at critical junctures and to do absolutely nothing is inexcusable. i am not saying he should jack ones jaw, although i sure would have liked to, he needed to express extreme displeasure with their calls and at the very least get in SOMEONE'S face wearing stripes. i have to ask.... who the HELLLLLLLLLL is regulating the freaking game tempo?????? down 28 - 7 to start the 3rd quarter and we huddle up and meander to the LOS like we are fricken AHEAD by 3 touchdowns!!! this lasts throughout the entire GAME. for X's sake we even let time run out at the end of the 3rd quarter without running a play. are they NUTS???? this lack of urgency would be inexcusable for a high school coach but for a PRO coach it is suicide if you EVER thought of keeping the respect of your players or even your FANS. and what coach in his right mind would keep your franchise QB in the last 1 1/2 minutes of the freaking game when you are down by 20 points????????? the defense is pinning their ears back and looking to fatten up their sack stats. why in gods name would you leave him in there to possibly get injured for NO REASON and call timeouts to boot??? and finally lovie, the last TD the cards scored was THE time for you to throw the flag for a change. it WAS questionable and you had NOTHING TO LOSE doing so. but then i guess you couldn't have called time out with a minute and a half left to give your opponent another shot at your ONLY franchise player being down THREEEE SCORES. freaking idiot!! 2. our GM angelo: if there is ANY GM out there who can find his own arse with both hands we need to dump angelo like a bucket of dead fish. the quality of talent we have on this team is flat out atrocious. we have the talent and depth nearly identical to when wanny left town after 8 freaking years of worthless drafts. even on defense which is SUPPOSED to be his forte, we need at least one CB, at least one S, 2 linebackers, 1-2 defensive ends, and 2 defensive tackles. what we really have is a 53 man roster of special team players. sorry i almost forgot... we have one average TE and we have TWO tight ends who couldn't slow down a 3 legged dog in a revolving door!!! our offensive line is non-existent with the ONLY question mark on a player playing out of position and not a single player in wings even close to starting caliber at any position or good depth for that matter. a fullback who should be flipping burgers, questionable WR's or at the least very inexperienced ones we start all at once, and that leaves what? a questionable RB (with no depth) and ONE franchise quality player who your freaking coaches are trying to kill (did lovie realllllly say qb's have to take hits at times too?)!!! owners???:: if this staff is kept for monetary reasons i'm done with these clowns and anyone saying this franchise isn't cheap is STILL waiting for the plane on fantasy freaking island. maybe take the $15 - 20 M you have left over this season that you won't pay out in player salary and payoff this worthless coach and his entire staff. THEN hire a real coach for a change. maybe one with some real nfl experience as a head coach. someone we don't have to train to become a future head coach after his trial and error waste of time here for 4-6 freaking years and then finally release his sorry arse when he wastes a year or two working out his salary.

1. if angelo wanted to keep his job and throw the blame away from himself this would be a very good solution for him and not beyond the realm of possibility in desperate times in the way angelo thinks. if lovie says no then angelo can say he tried to keep lovie EVEN if he wants him out. (hmmmm... maybe like jauron?) he saves the mccaskey's/phillips lovies contract cost if lovie chooses to opt out. he has brought in a LEAGUE offensive golden boy that buys him at least 3-4 more years in his role in chicago as GM and the possible future head coach, shanny, under contract. it makes his bringing in cutler even that much better. if he pays shanny an over the top salary but it's only for the tenure of lovies old contract he can then withhold contract offers to whichever HC isn't performing or bite the bullet if it works out really well and make up the extra salary costs in other revenues from a major winning franchise. another bonus is shanny can evaluate offensive talent in the draft a thousand times better than angelo. a good working combo before the draft. you say lovie wasn't comfortable with rivera. i say apples and oranges. lovie wants control of the only thing he is capable of coaching even halfway well, the defense. rivera threatened lovie's genius status. that is why you will NEVER see angelo bring in any DC with teeth because lovie then becomes obsolete without any role as HC to fall back on. trust me it won't happen and if it does, it's not for long before lovie goes. but... with an offensive minded coach, lovie might not like it but may accept sharing that portion of it. it takes the heat completely off his back if the offense fails to keep us in contention. he keeps his status and salary intact for at least the remainder of his contract in chicago and doesn't end up like all our former HC's. 2. you wouldn't want it anyway? frankly i don't care jack $#!* whether coaches are *sharing the burden or not as long as the job gets done and we win superbowls. if it takes TWO head coaches in chicago to do it i'm all for it ESPECIALLY considering our track record for HC's in this franchise!!! if lovie and shanny are at each others throats like ditka and ryan, so what. the end result of rings is my only concern. if lovie doesn't like it? see ya lovie, it's been a real slice. * the example you mention in washington is also an apples/oranges situation. the guy replacing zorn's play calling is also offensive minded. not a defensive counterpart.

if they fire turner alone they seriously need to have someone in mind that is better before they do it. just promoting someone already in the fold would be a worse mistake than keeping him (john shoop comes to mind as this type of stupidity). as bad as our offense needs 'quality' players they also need someone who can coach them to become better players. even with our current draft status we should be able to find some good interior linemen. what we need is someone who can get them up to speed as soon as possible to fill out our offensive line and the only way for that to happen is through drafting and good coaching. my 7% solution... if we have a poor season/post-season and angelo is smart (don't count on it) what he does is offers a shared head coaching spot to shannahan, for a LARGE amount of cash, to run this mess similarly to the ditka - b. ryan era pre-superbowl. if lovie doesn't like it oh well, there is always the unemployment line. we get a proven offensive minded coach who is familiar with our main player on offense who has the possibility to turn our offense around within 2 years. if lovie and our defense continue to fail, lovies replacement is under contract. angelo had better start thinking about covering his arse or he will be looking for work himself (in my opinion he is more than half our problems and deserves to be fired) within a year or 2.

i not only agree but i would like to emphasize this. since the FIRST game of the season, teams have been overloading the line on one side (usually our right side) and have been causing havoc in our backfield. some if not most of this can fall on olsen and davis for doing nearly nothing to block freed up d-linemen or backers coming unabated to the qb USUALLY off right tackle or between the RG, RT gap. some can come from our RB and FB either missing blocks or not blocking the right defender. some comes from cutler not seeing these defensive lineups and calling audibles, reassigning blocking assignments or getting quick passes out to hot receivers (if our receivers are even running the correct hot routes in these instances) and some from what appears to be complete confusion from our linemen on who their blocking assignment is. BUT... i question this coaching staff for not going over this week after week in practice to either get cutler (whom many forget is a young qb) to recognize these sets and counter them OR get in the face of our RB's and TE's to forcefully change their blocking habits and mindset. this still going on by the 6th game in the season is inexcusable!!! just what the hell is our OC, our QB coach, our OL coach and our position coaches doing during film sessions or practice during the week before games? by this time and every team we have faced using the same tactics you would think SOMEONE could figure this out!! until we can counter this we will see it continually the rest of the season or until cutler is on IR or dead.

i can't agree with mulligan on some of this.. cleveland browns: 1. crennel - 4 years - 1 year with winning record 2. davis - 4 years - 1 year with winning record 3. belichick - 5 years - 1 year with winning record tampa bay: 1 superbowl appearance 1. gruden - 7 years - 4 years with winning record 2. dungy - 6 years - 4 years with winning record 3. wyche - 4 years - 0 years with winning record rams: 2 superbowl appearances 1. linehan - 3 years - 0 years with winning record 2. martz - 6 years - 3 years with winning record 3. vermiel - 3 years - 1 year with winning record chiefs: 1. edwards - 3 years - 1 year with winning record 2. vermiel - 5 years - 2 years with winning record 3. cunningham - 2 years - 1 year with winning record how convenient that he has left out the titans 15 years with the same coach. although i don't have the stats for GM's i am nearly certain their turnover is much less so than coaching staffs. in my opinion it starts with the person/s who are in charge of personnel. if you have a good 'system' set up for drafting college players you will do well. if your payroll is feeding high paid players, either first day picks who produce little or no input or high end free agents you HAVE to acquire because you draft poorly, you put your entire franchise in jeopardy. 2nd you need good, competent coaching staffs who can not only adapt to different systems in the nfl but who can coach your draft picks into production players and be able to evaluate talent.

some *excerpts... ok i can understand a coach getting fed up with the same questions over and over and wanting to stick up for his players. stating "we've got a good offensive line" a bit over the top but... he has no idea why?? that's a pretty scary statement. even taking heat and getting fed up with the media this is an amazing statement to utter even in your sleep. hmmmmmm... maybe if i knew each player personally i would like them too. but to say we have "good players and good depth"? is he living on bizzaro world? in regards to beekman... this is his high recommendation? his analysis of our supposedly future center? he is a good player (in the same breath he mentions "Frank's a good football player") and he "started last year"???? if these statements aren't just 'a here are some meaningless words, print what you want' type of statement this guy has some serious problems with reality. i can understand throwing your players under the bus publicly helps nobody but this tripe certainly does more harm than good to the credibility of this coaching staff. * http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/...nsive-line.html

i stated that both are getting beaten occasionally but certainly NOT to the extent you are stating. yes i have noticed. but where is the pressure coming from? around the the tackles? uhhhh... no. there is a reason #68 is taking the heat. are you serious? watch any offensive tackles and where they are putting the DE's on good blocks. what you are suggesting is rarely ever happening unless the DE's is just plain getting dominated by the tackle or getting help from a RB/TE, the defense's pass rush plain sucks or maybe in video games. on a 5-6 step drop it's absolutely normal for a qb to step up and throw the ball!!! that is what a pocket is for and why it's important to have one. if you don't agree with this then the best we can agree on is to agree to disagree. again i have to disagree. if turner says i want X player to start because he is flat out better i can't believe our gm calls him on the phone and says no. as far as lovie? i have stated this in the past that i don't think he knows enough ABOUT how to run an offense to force a player into the lineup. look at what lovie did with shay.

because by the 3rd on down the premium players were already picked!! this again goes to angelo's quantity over quality. unger was projected the best center in the draft and a very good prospect at guard. hmmm.... we have a dinosaur for a center (with beekman projected to step in but he had proved nothing after starting last season at guard). we have NO guards that are more than even average. QUALITY is the pick with unger, who dropped out of the lower 1st round to US, not just warm tackling dummies for camp. that pick would have given us multiple possibilities on the OL. if beekman sucks at center we have a great prospect in unger. if beekman plays well we have a great prospect at guard who can start and a backup center for beekman. a win win situation.

pass protection: this i don't totally agree with. pace has been getting beaten at times but what you suggest is he is getting consistently eaten up on the *edge which not true. he AND williams are 'looking' worse than the reality of the situation indicates because of the collapse of the interior pocket, stunts, overloading one side of the line, blitz's and quite frankly much of this is due to poor preparation, scheme and play calling. the same can be said of williams. yes at times williams is getting overpowered and pushed back but this is not consistent. the more serious problem is our TE's have been extremely poor at blocking and in my opinion this is giving the tackles some of the bad wrap they don't deserve. olson and davis don't have a clue out there and are responsible for complete whiffs of what SHOULD be their blocking assignments. they aren't even getting chip blocks right. *when our tackles are moving the DE's out and around as is normal there is no place for our qb to step into. the left guard is getting pushed back 2 yds at the snap and our center is not far behind. so what is happening is a pincer move where the DE's are meeting our qb in the middle with him having no place to go except into the wash and pick his way through jumbo bodies. agree even if i'm not a great fan of beekman, frank is just brutal. agree, i have no problem trying this out either. neither are having close to a stellar season so why not? you would have to keep in some protection plans so cutler doesn't get killed until you could see if williams can play on the left. with all that said, we are still not improving our lines interior without the beekman move. i can't believe lovie has any say in how this works out as he is clueless about offense. so ramp it up turner!!

forget keeping original picks for cutler, it was a steal. now, instead of us trading out of our second round pick i would have chosen max unger - center/guard. but instead as usual we trade quality for quantity with angie.

i have to vehemently disagree. cutler is a coup that will pay dividends for a decade unless we get him killed. there is no player more important and harder to find than a very good+ qb in his prime. it is almost unheard of to get one in a deal like we got. our problems are us WASTING first day draft picks year after year. no team can compensate for that.

we have never had the right players for this type of defense to be run full time (not to mention the SYSTEM has been compromised by good EDIT>OC's around the league for years). add to this, what we run is NOT even the definition of the cover 2 defense per se'. the cushions we give receivers off the line is insane and about 75% of our problems on defense. you not only need good tackles who can penetrate or push back the pocket but you need, in my opinion, at least one VERY GOOD cover corner to go with your safeties. you HAVE to stop the quick 2-3 step drop passing attack by disrupting the qb's timing. you do this by covering/jamming and/or directing the receivers off the LOS to give your DL time to even GET to the qb's. nobody seems to believe me when i say that a very good cover corner would have been the best addition to this type of system if you are fool enough to even run it. this is why we made a major mistake in not picking up charles woodson when he went initially to the packers!!! as it stands, we not only don't have good CB's who can do this but we don't even have safeties to overcompensate for their lack of production which results in those zones being so open play after play. every receiver we face virtually runs an undisturbed/untouched route from the snap into empty intermediate zones and even if we blitz the hot receiver is never even touched thus resulting in a lot of receptions and moving of the chains!!!

believe me i am not defending lovie. this entire system run in chicago is obsolete.

here is the biggest problem we face.... the quality of the players we have under contract. what we have is a collection of drafted special teams players or backups that are forced into the starting lineup. we have drafted UNTOLD defensive linemen over the last 8 years. we have drafted 3 first day RB's. we have drafted numerous safeties and linebackers. we have neglected offensive linemen in the draft for nearly 8 years. in all this we have traded down for quantity over quality and this is what we ended up with. a team that will take 3+ years of GOOD drafting just to get back to average. there is basically no position we couldn't use an upgrade at and in the future it is going to get worse. you CAN'T build a team that will be healthy by free agents alone. your first day picks have got to produce. not to give our coaching staff any reprieve, but just who has put us into this mess? everyone calls for lovies or turners head and neglects who really driven us into this position.... JERRY ANGELO!!!