Alaskan Grizzly

And that's your opinion. Not fact just what you think ...comma... I considered posting this elsewhere but since there is some relation. The discussion above would be very similar to how I feel (opinion) that Cutler is an AVERAGE (at best) QB. Here's evidence to correlate that and using that QBR that so many of you hold in high regard: http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago-bears/post...espns-total-qbr In fact his rating places him smack dab (or one below depending how you read the numbers) in the middle at 17th. And again, this is AN IMPROVEMENT from what he has done throughout his career. And I'm still confused how you can consider a coach with a winning record as only average where you think a QB like Cutler is any better than... So, as you say, Cutler is an "average"* QB. Period.

Nice response. And on your point about FA issues being a fault of Lovie. Have to agree and that I have seen a few others (presumably TB fans) say that same thing. I've always thought that to be a weakness of Lovies. He tries too hard to appease 'his guys'. Archuleta, Martz(?), Orlando Pace, Manumaluena (examples for the Bears) and Conte, Major Wright, Tim Jennings and Melton in TB. Although admirable not always the best course in this business.

Is that right? ? Interesting perspective. Your "evaluation" process is no more than personal bias and conjecture. His "inadequacies" again are your personal feelings, not the standard. I know you may find this hard to accept but it's reality. Just as biased as my belief that Lovie is a good coach. My opinion is not the end all. I just am basing it on what I see and "hear". And from what I hear, players who actually have logged some time in the NFL like him...as a coach.

Intersting. So the same should be applied to coach Fox?

This coming from a guy who says Lovie isn't an effective coach. All he did while in Chicago for nine years was compile 6 winning seasons (in regards to W-L) *and two of which were while Cutler was there. 3x NFC North champ, 1 NFC Champion, a SB appearance ( all without the GREAT Cutler as QB) and Coach of the Year. Seems all pretty "decent" to me. . If his name Cutler it would mean he made it to the Super Bowl. Which he hasn't.

Well you'd be wrong in that he's not a bad coach, as has been evidenced by the comments of some of the players on the Bucs and others with the Bears. But since you base your success rate on how many championships you garner then it's a wasted discussion...again. Now to figure out why you don't have that same philosophy with QBs.

Dumbest thing you say? I was actually thinking you'd use Eli Manning as his passer rating is similar to Cutlers. Difference is Eli's won two SBs. And I'm going to take a guess at what Favres is. Problem is he has at least one championship to his name too. So perhaps all these guys' ratings are similar. But when it comes down to it and the games matter (playoffs and championships) they win. What did Cutler do when he was in ONE playoff game for the Bears? He sat down. Hell Grossman did better than that. And to literally take your words of "comparing" the two and your comment about how Orton "didn't win us any games, didn't lose us any games", you know what Cutlers overall W/L record is? 68-68. A perfect .500. The epitome of average. The part you're missing in my comparison is that Cutler IMPROVED to get to where he's at vs Orton who maintained his rating.

Yes Mr Busybody there was. And it was settled already. To aid your memory it was a comparison between Trestman and Lovie and who would fare better. Seems it was nearly a draw. Only difference was one was improving their lot, the other was not.

I saw some rumors that their OC Koetter is a HC candidate (like Gase) and TB ownership didn't want to risk losing him. Some speculate he'll be the next HC.

Yeah, seems odd. Especially given their offense ranked #5 overall last year. Not the trademark normally associated to Lovie coached teams. http://m.buccaneers.com/s/33201/376?itemUr...150668146141072 Saw that Lavonte David tweeted out his thoughts: EDIT (David has since deleted his tweets): http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000061...surprise-firing

Not if Miami beats them to it. It would appear Gase is as good as gone. http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/01...try_to_hir.html

Well simply put and comparing stats over the duration of their careers. And using Orton as the measure since he is considered by many as a 'game manager': Orton: (10 years) 101 TDs / 69 INTs / 18,037 yds / Passer rating of 81.2 Cutler: (10 years) 204 TDs / 141 INTs / 31,408 yds / Passer rating of 86.0 A mere 5 pts separate them in overall passer rating. Cutler had the benefit of this year's rating 92.3 (his best ever) so that bumped up the rating if only a little. Sure one could say that Cutler has been twice as productive (yards, TD's) but the argument could be made that he's equally been INT prone. Hence the overall rating being close to that of the more 'game manager' in Orton. And just for comparison sake. A few other random franchise QB's and their lifetime Passer ratings: P Manning (18 yrs - 96.5), M. Ryan (8 yrs - 90.0), B. Roethlisberger (12 yrs - 94.0) and D. Brees (15 yrs - 95.8) I also checked out C. Palmer whose current overall rating is 88.1 mostly due to his consistently favorable play in AZ. Before that he muddled for quite awhile in Cinncinnati and Oakland and his rating hovered in the 84.4 range. So using him as a barometer and considering he's been at it for 13 years, Cutler's arrow may continue up.

Isn't there something that allows you (as a team) ask for some compensation for hiring one of your coaches currently under contract? I seem to recall that happening somewhere before. As a package deal it might be more realistic. Probably still not that many picks but still a future commodity of some sort.

I like a lot of the idea minus the McCown/Manziel pieces. Yes I am a fan of McCowns but I think he was a 'one trick pony' in Treatmans offense. Where Manziel is a plain ass clown. Don't need his distractions. He's better going off to Dallas. Perhaps a deal could be made with one or two of their better defensive players? That is should Cutler be considered in a trade.

He's said as much. That they have a "system" that not one person is responsible for (or similar words). The only concern I have is how Jay will interact with whomever takes over for Gase.

They seem to feed off one another well. Reminiscent of Ogunleye and Brown a few years back.

I'd say based on how they did this last year do what you can to keep them. Both came on strong late in the year despite pretty significant injuries. Especially for their size, age and position. And considering Willie still doesn't like being called an OLB. Now if we can just get Houston to stop doing that post sack dance.

A couple thoughts in fact. First a few questions. If Gase goes how effective can Cutler remain? As Lemon pointed out a few weeks ago, Cutler has become a pretty good game manager. Which would be fine if we were looking at transitioning eventually to a new franchise QB. Secondly; how long does Jay have? He'll be on his 11th(?) season next year so we need to start thinking future. That being said no probably not 1st round. There are a lot of other concerns that should be addressed. Besides that I'm not hearing a lot about the QB prospects this year. Not enough to warrant a first round. What does Fales have to offer? They kept him around for some reason and when he did play he didn't look too shabby. The 'Mariotta for Cutler' trade ship has passed so that's not an option?

Besides that Jason, you lost focus of my point. Yours being that it was ok (my words) to lose late in the season to gain a few draft spots. I am not.

Nope. Absolutely not. Statistics cannot and will not justify losing 'on purpose'.

And really does moving up 5 spots in the draft make that big a deal? No. Can't convince me otherwise.

'There's a disturbance in the force'. I was actually going to say none of the turnovers today were totally the fault of Cutler. Although there were three and one of them was in the red zone I didn't see how he was to blame. That first one was total bad luck. He threw it high and away so that hopefully the WR got it but if not it would have gone out of bounds. Instead the coverage had the hand and interceptor in the right place at the right time.

One thing is certain, I'd like to see Mariani back as the slot receiver. Say goodbye to Royal.

Have to say that does make some sense. I like it.

I thought the same thing a few weeks ago and looked him up on YouTube. Played pretty well in Arizona for a few years. Real similar to Miller in that he's a journeyman TE with pretty good hands. Sounds like he has some injury issues too.