ParkerBear7 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Yes. I think it has to constantly be in Pace's mind. Which is why I'm fully prepared to be upset during the first round of the draft. Allen is who I want, not who I think Pace will pick. Is there any chance Bears trade up to get Garrett and what would it cost to do so? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50england50 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Listening to draft evaluators Jonathan Allen is very similar to Suh. Also Alabama doctors are on record that Allen required no treatment for his shoulders last year and it didn't affect his play. Many evaluators feel he is the best overall player in the draft but Garrett as the greater ceiling. I'm hoping they pick Allen and he becomes Justin Smith in the fangio defense. This would then free up Floyd and hopefully he has worked a hard over the of season and can play like Alton Smith. Probably wishful thinking. This could then be a top 5 front 7 and with improvement in the secondary from having more experience there and pressure from the front we could quickly turn this around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Listening to draft evaluators Jonathan Allen is very similar to Suh. Also Alabama doctors are on record that Allen required no treatment for his shoulders last year and it didn't affect his play. Many evaluators feel he is the best overall player in the draft but Garrett as the greater ceiling. I'm hoping they pick Allen and he becomes Justin Smith in the fangio defense. This would then free up Floyd and hopefully he has worked a hard over the of season and can play like Alton Smith. Probably wishful thinking. This could then be a top 5 front 7 and with improvement in the secondary from having more experience there and pressure from the front we could quickly turn this around. Both Allen and Thomas will end up being good players and would not have a problem choosing either. I was wanting Adams, but think a stud on the line would have more of an impact and then take Baker in the second and still would be getting a difference maker in the back of the defense. So any of those three would be fine with me, but I more wish to move back in the draft and get more choices but that is out of our control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Combine results: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jonath...llen?id=2557844 Allen 6'3" 286lbs Arms: 33.6 40yd: 5.00 Bench: 21 reps Vertical: 30in Broad Jump: 108in 3-cone: 7.49s 20yd shuttle: 4.5s Thomas 6'3" 273lbs 33" 40yd: 4.69s Bench: 30 reps (top performer) Vertical: 35in Broad Jump: 126in (top performer) 3-cone: 6.95s (top performer) 20yd shuttle: 4.28s (top performer) Allen has more size but he's not stronger in the upper body. In fact his 21 reps was 35th among Dline. Based on tape I'd say Allen is definitely stronger in the lower body than Thomas as he anchors better against OGs. Thomas has a clear advantage in explosiveness and agility. In fact I think his 3-cone time is faster than Floyd's. The difference here shows up on tape where Allen rarely get around the edge for a sack. Most of the highlights I see of Allen getting sack on the edge is when the QB is flushed out of the pocket toward his side. Thomas can get around the edge against OTs. If you want interior run D with some inside pass rush mixed in Allen is your guy. If you want more pass rush off the left side and good run defense on the outside (i.e. set the edge), as well as some spot work inside at 3-tech Thomas is your guy. My preference is help at OLB/LDE. Allen is a year older as well so, while there is a bit of projection, with one more year of work where will Thomas be? FWIW For those who like to compare Justin Smith combine results: 6'4" 267lbs 40yd: 4.64 Bench: 26 Vertical: 34 Broad: 117 http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedat...s=&college= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Combine results: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jonath...llen?id=2557844 Allen 6'3" 286lbs Arms: 33.6 40yd: 5.00 Bench: 21 reps Vertical: 30in Broad Jump: 108in 3-cone: 7.49s 20yd shuttle: 4.5s Thomas 6'3" 273lbs 33" 40yd: 4.69s Bench: 30 reps (top performer) Vertical: 35in Broad Jump: 126in (top performer) 3-cone: 6.95s (top performer) 20yd shuttle: 4.28s (top performer) Allen has more size but he's not stronger in the upper body. In fact his 21 reps was 35th among Dline. Based on tape I'd say Allen is definitely stronger in the lower body than Thomas as he anchors better against OGs. Thomas has a clear advantage in explosiveness and agility. In fact I think his 3-cone time is faster than Floyd's. The difference here shows up on tape where Allen rarely get around the edge for a sack. Most of the highlights I see of Allen getting sack on the edge is when the QB is flushed out of the pocket toward his side. Thomas can get around the edge against OTs. If you want interior run D with some inside pass rush mixed in Allen is your guy. If you want more pass rush off the left side and good run defense on the outside (i.e. set the edge), as well as some spot work inside at 3-tech Thomas is your guy. My preference is help at OLB/LDE. Allen is a year older as well so, while there is a bit of projection, with one more year of work where will Thomas be? FWIW For those who like to compare Justin Smith combine results: 6'4" 267lbs 40yd: 4.64 Bench: 26 Vertical: 34 Broad: 117 http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedat...s=&college= The combine results are interesting but if you draft a player because he has good combine results, you will lose more times than you win. Thomas is more of a edge rusher where Allen is more of a 5T. Both are needs in this offense, and would have no problem with either choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 The combine results are interesting but if you draft a player because he has good combine results, you will lose more times than you win. Thomas is more of a edge rusher where Allen is more of a 5T. Both are needs in this offense, and would have no problem with either choose. Agree with the bolded part. But the other part I completely disagree with because of the bolded part. Who do the Bears have at the DE position? Bullard, Hicks, Unrein So other than Hicks, it's an unproven but promising Bullard who couldn't beat out a subpar Unrein. Who do the Bears at the OLB position? Floyd, Houston, McPhee, Young Floyd is a lock to start. Houston led the team in sacks in 2005 before getting injured. Still an above average player. McPhee was probably the best guy on the defense over the last 2 years, but also injured. And Young led the team in sacks last season! He needs to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 How many were as highly thought of as Thomas? I mean you can say that about a lot of guys. Verdict is still out on A'Shawn Robinson and Jarron Reed, but outside of Marcel Darius 6 years ago Bama hasn't produced a good lineman either. When's the last time Clemson, Notre Dame, or North Carolina developed an NFL QB? Another follow-on is when was the last time Michigan (Brady) or Tennessee (Manning) developed a QB? Not always the best way to look at things. I think if we stay at 3, Thomas has a good probability of being the guy. I personally think we move down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 How many were as highly thought of as Thomas? I mean you can say that about a lot of guys. Verdict is still out on A'Shawn Robinson and Jarron Reed, but outside of Marcel Darius 6 years ago Bama hasn't produced a good lineman either. When's the last time Clemson, Notre Dame, or North Carolina developed an NFL QB? Clemson Steve Fuller 1st round for Chiefs Jimmy Claussen 2nd round Panthers TJ Yates 5th round? Texans Bust my chops if I'm wrong on Yates because this is off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Clemson Steve Fuller 1st round for Chiefs Jimmy Claussen 2nd round Panthers TJ Yates 5th round? Texans Bust my chops if I'm wrong on Yates because this is off the top of my head. I mean a good NFL QB. If you were just asking when the last time a Stanford defensive lineman was drafted, there seems to be one every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 Is there any chance Bears trade up to get Garrett and what would it cost to do so? Thoughts? I don't think there is any chance whatsoever. The Bears have too many needs to move up to #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 The combine results are interesting but if you draft a player because he has good combine results, you will lose more times than you win. Thomas is more of a edge rusher where Allen is more of a 5T. Both are needs in this offense, and would have no problem with either choose. Perhaps you skipped the other post where his college stats were listed. Combine results are only used to validate what you see in game film. Is the guy as fast/strong/quick as he appears in the games or was his competition making him look good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 Perhaps you skipped the other post where his college stats were listed. Combine results are only used to validate what you see in game film. Is the guy as fast/strong/quick as he appears in the games or was his competition making him look good? I seen that but i was referring to picking a player over another player because of his combine results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50england50 Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 I would like to draft down if it is a monster trade such as a first between 10 and 15 with at least either 1st next year and a 3rd or 2 X 2nd's and a 3rd. I haven't looked at the draft chart for trades but I want a trade where everyone says The bears just committed daylight robbery. Regarding staying at 3 as long as we bring in Allen and Thomas for a closer inspection the deciding factor should be football IQ. I think the 5T is probably the area where if we get a stud we change from a good to great team. Can they both play there or can Thomas only play at OLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 I seen that but i was referring to picking a player over another player because of his combine results On that I agree but if the players grade equally based on game film, then I'm going to go with the player who is the better athlete. If production doesn't match the athlete then definitely go with the player who produced on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 I would like to draft down if it is a monster trade such as a first between 10 and 15 with at least either 1st next year and a 3rd or 2 X 2nd's and a 3rd. I haven't looked at the draft chart for trades but I want a trade where everyone says The bears just committed daylight robbery. Regarding staying at 3 as long as we bring in Allen and Thomas for a closer inspection the deciding factor should be football IQ. I think the 5T is probably the area where if we get a stud we change from a good to great team. Can they both play there or can Thomas only play at OLB. Thomas def has the strength to play 5T. He's also a guy you can get a little fancy with and line him up in different spots to throw the offense off a bit. You can line him up in the 5, 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 3T, and I'm sure you can even line him up as a 3-4 ILB and have him rush from the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Thomas def has the strength to play 5T. He's also a guy you can get a little fancy with and line him up in different spots to throw the offense off a bit. You can line him up in the 5, 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 3T, and I'm sure you can even line him up as a 3-4 ILB and have him rush from the inside. Good info. I'd love to see the Bears draft him at #3. I just hate the idea of drafting a safety that high. When we have great pass rushers, we won't need a great safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thomas def has the strength to play 5T. He's also a guy you can get a little fancy with and line him up in different spots to throw the offense off a bit. You can line him up in the 5, 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 3T, and I'm sure you can even line him up as a 3-4 ILB and have him rush from the inside. Greg Gabriel thinks different. He does not think he can play 5T. He played at 260 last season and should be about 290. He gained weight for the combine but still measured at 273. At OLB, he would be a pass rush only as he has never played much in coverage and would need to learn there. He basically said Thomas can be a great pro more so in a 4-3, but not a good fit for the Bears. At pick #3, the Bears would take him for OLB, but he would be over drafted since he is a tweener and would need work in coverages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Yeah, def gonna have to disagree with Garbriel here. Justin Smith came into the league in the 260s and turned into a monster because hes strong like bull. Thomas may have put on weight but it sure didn't slow him down any judging by his performance at the combine. He should be fine playing in the 280s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Yeah, def gonna have to disagree with Garbriel here. Justin Smith came into the league in the 260s and turned into a monster because hes strong like bull. Thomas may have put on weight but it sure didn't slow him down any judging by his performance at the combine. He should be fine playing in the 280s. Thomas does play at a high motor. It is possible they go that route, but I still think they sign another DT like Ricky Jean Francis and go QB/CB/S with the 1st. Bullard will also be in the mix more, being a 3rd round pick they will eventually look for him to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Greg Gabriel thinks different. He does not think he can play 5T. He played at 260 last season and should be about 290. He gained weight for the combine but still measured at 273. At OLB, he would be a pass rush only as he has never played much in coverage and would need to learn there. He basically said Thomas can be a great pro more so in a 4-3, but not a good fit for the Bears. At pick #3, the Bears would take him for OLB, but he would be over drafted since he is a tweener and would need work in coverages. We are in a 4-3 front about 60% of the time. At that point our LDEs are Willie Young 258lbs, McPhee 273lbs, Houston 274lbs. I don't see why Thomas doesn't fit right in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 We are in a 4-3 front about 60% of the time. At that point our LDEs are Willie Young 258lbs, McPhee 273lbs, Houston 274lbs. I don't see why Thomas doesn't fit right in. Where does that stat come from? If that's the case, the Bears should be drafting for 4-3 instead of 3-4. Based on Fangio's history, I can't see how that's accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Where does that stat come from? If that's the case, the Bears should be drafting for 4-3 instead of 3-4. Based on Fangio's history, I can't see how that's accurate. It's a 4-3 under which is essentially a 3-4 There are 3 down linemen but one of the OLBs are on the line of scrimmage thus making it a "4-3" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 No he means when we are in Nickel with 4 DL and 2 LB, which is a lot given all the 3 WR sets in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 It's a 4-3 under which is essentially a 3-4 There are 3 down linemen but one of the OLBs are on the line of scrimmage thus making it a "4-3" I get that part of it. What I'm curious about is the percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I don't think he meant 4-3, I think he meant 4 man defensive front i.e. Nickel (4-2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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