Bears /2023

[Stinger226]

I'm good with anything that would upgrade the front 7 . I'm not sure Poles will invest  that much money in the DT position. More like one FA and one draft pick. 

Jenkins is getting a lot of flack over being hurt but would play in an emergency. Lots of players fall in that scenario. Its how journalists are wording it. I think him and Jones are starters for next year with the rest of the group having new starters. I think they draft a WR , hopefully he becomes a #1. Don't know much about Claypool but if he wants a big contract, he will have to focus next year to do it.

[scs787]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:55 AM, adam said:

Gipson had one monster game, against GB, with 2 sacks, 2 TFL, 3 QB Hits.

In the other 9 games, he has been basically a low end rotational guy: 0 sacks, 1 TFL, 5 QB Hits

I'm certainly not saying he's good, but I would absolutely bring him back. I think he can be a solid 3rd DE and I wouldn't HATE if he was starting. To me he's their best DE. Dom flashed really early and I think it got our hopes up. He still has potential for sure, but I'd prefer he be 4th on the depth charts. 

 

In that GB game, Quinn was still garnering a lot of attention so Gipson was able to do more. If you start adding guys like Payne and a good DE, it's gonna make things a lot easier for guys like Gipson, Jones, and Dom. 

 

I'd like them to do more, but if they added Payne(who is an absolute must to me if he hits the market) and Will Anderson in the draft, I'd be happy. 

 

I'd absolutely try and do that indy trade to bring in Buckner, but I doubt something like that would happen. 

[Stinger226]

I agree that Payne and Will Anderson would be the best case scenario going forward we could hope for. Payne and Carter would be excellent to, but not sure that scenario works out. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I agree that Payne and Will Anderson would be the best case scenario going forward we could hope for. Payne and Carter would be excellent to, but not sure that scenario works out. 

As good as Carter and Anderson sound, I would consider moving down for a future 1st, maybe a 3rd and take Bresee.  This all hinges on a QB needy team making a trade, but for me that would be the best case scenario. 

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

As good as Carter and Anderson sound, I would consider moving down for a future 1st, maybe a 3rd and take Bresee.  This all hinges on a QB needy team making a trade, but for me that would be the best case scenario. 

The key, is how far we move down, I think Bresee goes in the top 10. If we stay in the top 5 we could get a huge take for a QB, but we need to stay in the top 15.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

The key, is how far we move down, I think Bresee goes in the top 10. If we stay in the top 5 we could get a huge take for a QB, but we need to stay in the top 15.

If we can net good return and still get a good player is all want. I don't know of we are one d-lineman away.  I love the thoughts of having Carter or Anderson, so I can be happy staying too.

[BearFan PHX]

10 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

If we can net good return and still get a good player is all want. I don't know of we are one d-lineman away.  I love the thoughts of having Carter or Anderson, so I can be happy staying too.

I agree we are definitely not one D lineman away - we have holes all over. But if the mission is to build a superbowl winner, you do need at least one true blue chip All Pro D lineman on the team. Its OK to start building with major pieces, even as other holes need filling too. Otherwise you end up with a 10-7 team that wins one playoff game and youre trapped in the cycle weve been in for decades. I dont want to be decent quick, I want to be dominant and sustainable.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree we are definitely not one D lineman away - we have holes all over. But if the mission is to build a superbowl winner, you do need at least one true blue chip All Pro D lineman on the team. Its OK to start building with major pieces, even as other holes need filling too. Otherwise you end up with a 10-7 team that wins one playoff game and youre trapped in the cycle weve been in for decades. I dont want to be decent quick, I want to be dominant and sustainable.

Yes with all of that, you need 3_to 4 blue chip players. You might get lucky and find one later in the draft but you can get one or two if  you trade back and still stay in the top 10.

[Mongo3451]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Yes with all of that, you need 3_to 4 blue chip players. You might get lucky and find one later in the draft but you can get one or two if  you trade back and still stay in the top 10.

I remember Polian saying a team needs 12-14 blue chip players to contend.  Blue chip in the NFL is an above average starter.  I think we currently have 6-7.  Listening to help this morning, he said he expects 20 new players on the roster next year.  That may be radio drama, but I can see at least 16.  Probably, 7-8 roster upgrades via FA and draft, with at least 4 big upgrades.  The rest would be UDFA and prove it deals.

How many do y'all think?

[adam]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I remember Polian saying a team needs 12-14 blue chip players to contend.  Blue chip in the NFL is an above average starter.  I think we currently have 6-7.  Listening to help this morning, he said he expects 20 new players on the roster next year.  That may be radio drama, but I can see at least 16.  Probably, 7-8 roster upgrades via FA and draft, with at least 4 big upgrades.  The rest world be UDFA and prove it deals.

How many do y'all think?

Poles has a ton of free agency money. Even with some extensions, the Bears will be able to bring in at least 5 top level free agents and with the draft at least 3. So that is 8 at a minimum. 

[Stinger226]

On 11/27/2022 at 11:47 AM, Mongo3451 said:

I remember Polian saying a team needs 12-14 blue chip players to contend.  Blue chip in the NFL is an above average starter.  I think we currently have 6-7.  Listening to help this morning, he said he expects 20 new players on the roster next year.  That may be radio drama, but I can see at least 16.  Probably, 7-8 roster upgrades via FA and draft, with at least 4 big upgrades.  The rest would be UDFA and prove it deals.

How many do y'all think?

As of now our (IMO) Blue Chip players Justin Fields, Claypool on O. Soon to be Mooney, Kmet, Jenkins, Herbert. I like Monty a lot but not sure you would put him quite in that category. 

On defense EJ, J Johnson,  Soon to be Brisker and Gordon. I think Sanborn and J Jones will be starters next yr but not sure they are considered blue chip.

I think we add 3 during the FAgency period and hopefully draft 2-3.

[Stinger226]

Our DT position is bad . We have only Blackson and Justin Jones signed for next year. Blackson can be gone for 500 thousand. I would say bye bye. 

Resign  Armon Watts and get all new DTs. 

My wish is bring in DeRon Payne , Washington is already paying Jonathan Allen 72 mil, there's no way there going to tie that much money in the DT position. Give him 20 A year. Then draft Carter or Bresee and Garvin Dexter.

[AZ54]

26 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Our DT position is bad . We have only Blackson and Justin Jones signed for next year. Blackson can be gone for 500 thousand. I would say bye bye. 

Resign  Armon Watts and get all new DTs. 

My wish is bring in DeRon Payne , Washington is already paying Jonathan Allen 72 mil, there's no way there going to tie that much money in the DT position. Give him 20 A year. Then draft Carter or Bresee and Garvin Dexter.

I don't know if I posted this before but this summarizes the Commanders' situation with Payne.   I agree, I can't see them putting so much cap space into one position especially with big contracts coming due at DE.  

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/12/commanders-aiming-to-keep-dt-daron-payne

Complicating matters for the Commanders’ aim to retain Payne: their defensive line contract situation and a D-tackle market potentially set to spike. Of Washington’s four first-round D-linemen, only longtime Payne teammate Jonathan Allen is signed to a veteran contract. In addition to the prospect of Chase Young and Montez Sweat paydays, the Commanders keeping Payne would force them to allocate NFL-high money to their D-tackle spot.

[Stinger226]

51 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I don't know if I posted this before but this summarizes the Commanders' situation with Payne.   I agree, I can't see them putting so much cap space into one position especially with big contracts coming due at DE.  

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/12/commanders-aiming-to-keep-dt-daron-payne

Complicating matters for the Commanders’ aim to retain Payne: their defensive line contract situation and a D-tackle market potentially set to spike. Of Washington’s four first-round D-linemen, only longtime Payne teammate Jonathan Allen is signed to a veteran contract. In addition to the prospect of Chase Young and Montez Sweat paydays, the Commanders keeping Payne would force them to allocate NFL-high money to their D-tackle spot.

Having not seen that before,  its a good article. With 2 DE contracts pending, and Mathis waiting in the wings, I dont see it happening on resigning Payne.

[scs787]

Yup, I've been saying it for weeks now, Payne HAS to be their top priority.  There's no reason they should be outbid. Dude is a stud. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

42 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Yup, I've been saying it for weeks now, Payne HAS to be their top priority.  There's no reason they should be outbid. Dude is a stud. 

Hargraves isn't bad either - he's older, but still very good and therefor you may be able to get him on a bit less crazy of a contract. That said - I got to imagine Eagles make a play to keep him, especially given how good they are. Payne seems like a good bet to be on the market and he is going to get massively outpaid - but he still is a really good player at a major position of need. 

[AZ54]

3 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Hargraves isn't bad either - he's older, but still very good and therefor you may be able to get him on a bit less crazy of a contract. That said - I got to imagine Eagles make a play to keep him, especially given how good they are. Payne seems like a good bet to be on the market and he is going to get massively outpaid - but he still is a really good player at a major position of need. 

He's just getting Roquan's money.  With Sanborn working behind Payne that would be a win-win IMO.  

[scs787]

3 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Hargraves isn't bad either - he's older, but still very good and therefor you may be able to get him on a bit less crazy of a contract. That said - I got to imagine Eagles make a play to keep him, especially given how good they are. Payne seems like a good bet to be on the market and he is going to get massively outpaid - but he still is a really good player at a major position of need. 

I'm hoping they just front load the crap out of any deal for a guy like him. That way he's getting paid paid but when it comes time to pay Justin, it's gonna be a lot easier to do. 

[Stinger226]

Several of the FAgents he signed this yr that are signed next yr have cheap  buyouts. I think anyone he is unsure about, they will arrange the contracts to have an easy out .

My wishes are Payne/DT--Pocic/OC and Yannick Ngakoue /DE for the big contracts. 

Payne is a stud, 8.5 sacks this yr

Pocic he has had no penalties  and only given up one sack this yr. overall 83 Rating on PFF. 

Ngakoue has had at least 8 sacks in every yr but the two he had injuries. For having 8 seasons, he will still only be 28 next yr. Also over 30 pressures so far this yr.

[scs787]

22 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Several of the FAgents he signed this yr that are signed next yr have cheap  buyouts. I think anyone he is unsure about, they will arrange the contracts to have an easy out .

My wishes are Payne/DT--Pocic/OC and Yannick Ngakoue /DE for the big contracts. 

Payne is a stud, 8.5 sacks this yr

Pocic he has had no penalties  and only given up one sack this yr. overall 83 Rating on PFF. 

Ngakoue has had at least 8 sacks in every yr but the two he had injuries. For having 8 seasons, he will still only be 28 next yr. Also over 30 pressures so far this yr.

I can certainly get behind that, though I wish there was a more well rounded DE on the market. Ngakoue can get after the passer but he sucks against the run. He's kind of a poor man's Robert Quinn. Davenport can be good but he's hurt far too often for me. 

The RT market looks pretty good too, and from all the reports I've read, the center draft class looks really good and you can probably get a starter in the 3rd. 

 

[Mongo3451]

The more I look at it, it has become clear that the OL will be easier to fix than the DL and WR groups.  We've seen the success that Cincy had in fixing their OL this year and KC last year.  Another year under their belt will help the young guys tremendously.  The biggest thing will be to obtain a dominant center and a versatile OT.

I'm still in the pipe dream of signing Payne and trading for Buckner, then going for good fortune in the draft.  We literally need all 4 spots upgraded.

Most important is the WR upgrade.  We currently have a number two and a bunch of 3's through 5's.  St Brown is a good blocker, but his route running ability, body control and hands are below average.  He can be credited for Justin's first INT last Sunday.  Pringle is a good blocker and decent route runner, but at 6' you must be able to separate.  Harry, see St Brown.  Claypool has a chance, but his body control and willingness to be physical comes into question.  Tomlin brought Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clark in to work with him in training camp.  It was clear during this time that Marshall and Clark were physically instructing him on how to use his physicality.  The results were mixed.  Pettis is probably the best at getting separation, besides Mooney.  Velus is a work on process.  I can see its go into next season with Mooney, Pettis, Claypool, Jones and two picks.  The reason it will be important to load up on WR earlier is that they tend to take longer to develop.  We want them ready for the window in 2024.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I can see its go into next season with Mooney, Pettis, Claypool, Jones and two picks. 

Exchange Pettis for Harry and you’ve got yourself a deal.  😎👍

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Stolen from Twitter.  But shows, I think, how close the Bears really are…to being really good.  And where the Vikings are close to being really bad.   At least GB sucks both in reality and the alt-universe.  

[Stinger226]

Now to the OL: signed for next yr are Whitehair, Patrick, Jenkins, Leatherwood, Borom, B. Jones, J Carter. D Kramer.

The vets, Whitehair and Patrick could both be gone and replaced with other vets. I dont see all young guys on the OL next yr. Whitehair is playing okay but not great. With his injuries this yr, he could be moved and replace with a better vet. ( Elgton Jenkins) would work just fine . Patrick can be moved with only 1.5 mil in dead money and considering he hasnt played well and the injuries, Poles may replace him with a vet and then Let Kramer back him up. Mustifer is starting to play better but could be brought back as a back up because he wouldnt cost very much. A big question mark to me. 

I think B. Jones has been improving and will be kept at LT. If we bring someone in like Elgton Jenkins, he can play any position on the line and could take over at LT if Jones doesnt keep progressing. 

Whitehair is older and expensive, but could be replaced by another vet because I dont think J Carter will be ready yet to be a starter next. I think Poles is trying to develop Carter to take over the LG spot but wont be ready yet. 

Patrick isnt real expensive but this yr did not do mush for his future. I think they cut him and get another vet for that spot.  Kramer is signed so we will see how he develops.

Tevan Jenkins is the best OL IMO. I think he only gets better. 

I think Leatherwood will get first shot at RT. Not sure if it works but we just dont have that answer yet.

I think Borom may be kept as a backup but since they know what they have in him, they may want a rookie with more upside. 

Elgton Jenkins would be the perfect FA to get . He is above average, and can play any position on the line. GB will have cap problems (3.3 mil next yr) as long as Rodgers is still there and hopefully they dont tag him.

If they let Whitehair and Patrick go, then bring him and a Pocic, or Boseman in to play OC. Along with the young guys this could become a strong OL.

B Jones-E Jenkins-Pocic-T Jenkins-Leatherwood. as the starting line. Then draft another OT and IOL and let the line compete. 

Another player that he brought in that may make it on the roster is Kellen Diesch. He was projected to be a 4th or 5th round draft pick but went undrafted. 

He is very athletic but needs more strength, he fits the zone blocking we run right now, so I see Poles brings him back to see if he makes progress.  He has short arms but is very fluid in movement. 

I think Poles takes a best player available approach in the draft. There is only 2 lineman that will go early in the draft, he may choose to do that, but I think he wants to build what he already started on the line. Paris Johnson and Peter Skoronski are top 15 players. I have seen then between 5-10 in many rankings but never top 5 and that is where I think we will be picking from. 

[Mongo3451]

I like the Elgton Jenkins idea.  How much do you think he'll cost?