Claypool to PUP

[adam]

The gift that keeps on giving. I thought a 2nd rounder was steep for a WR3, but at the time, not knowing they would be able to get Moore, I understood it.

However, now after a good chunk of the season, an entire offseason, and now he lands on the PUP for the start of the real offseason training camp. Not a good trend.

With the addition of guys like Moore, Tonyan, and even Scott, and possibly some increased PT for Velus, Claypool is going to be the odd man out. Only so many targets to go around. It seems like the pecking order is Moore, Mooney, Kmet, Tonyan, RB1, Scott, then Velus or Claypool. By the time you get to the 5th player, that is about 5 targets a game.

[BearFan PHX]

At the end of all of this, it could be that Poles spent a 2nd round pick just to help evaluate Fields in the 2022 season. And he didnt get much of that from Claypool.

If Claypool is a bust, I'm gonna say that Poles took a risk when he was down to try to figure Fields out, and it failed. I have a lot more confidence in his draft and free agent choices since he got into the building phase of the franchise.

Even if this turns out to have been a bad bet, you can understand why he made it, and also WHEN. This was before Poles starting building his team.

I can give Poles a pass on this one for sure. But id love to see Claypool come back and make me eat my words. But in truth, Ive thought he was a bust for a while now, and i havent really seen anything yet to show me Im worng.

[BearFan PHX]

I guess that if Claypool just needs a couple weeks until hes ready to go, this makes sense because it opens up a roster spot. With all the rumors and expectations swirling about us signing an edge rusher, if Claypool needs a minute, this allows us to sign someone and still get those couple of weeks to evaluate whoever is on the bottom of our 80 (is that right?) man roster.

So even if Claypool just needs a minute, this lets you have your couple weeks of training camp to look at the bottom of your roster without having to get rid of one guy before you really saw him, and instead to see a bunch of guys to decide which one goes when Claypool comes back.

Given that Claypool looked healthy working out with Fields recently, Im not too worried that Claypool is all that injured. I am still worried as to whether he can become a WR2, but that's a different question.

This PUP doesnt really concern me at all and makes sense.

[Mongo3451]

48 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Given that Claypool looked healthy working out with Fields recently, Im not too worried that Claypool is all that injured. I am still worried as to whether he can become a WR2, but that's a different question.

Fields and the other receivers already know if Claypool has put in respectable effort or not.  If it's bullshit, Fields will make sure he gets his come-uppins.  It's come to the point where it is messing with other people's money.  

[adam]

Claypool just seems like the outcast of the group. Mooney already has a great relationship with Fields. Moore is clearly making one. It just seems like he is the odd man out. He can't be happy that they traded for Moore AND drafted Scott. 

Again, I think it was sort of desperation move on Poles part. At the time, FA was terrible for WRs, Mooney was hurt and his status was unknown going forward. So Claypool looked enticing, but even if the Bears were picking 15th in the 2nd at the time (Pick #47), he was the 49th pick and was being dangled at the trading deadline. If he was that good, why did Pittsburgh draft Pickens when they already had Johnson and Claypool? You normally don't draft a WR in the 2nd round to be WR3. So the writing was on the wall for Claypool when 2022 started. 

Can you imagine if the Bears kept the pick, and got Joey Porter Jr at CB, or went Edge, or even traded back from there? 

[AZ54]

Dude got kicked to the curb by more people before the first practice even started.

https://www.chicagobears.com/news/roster-move-chase-claypool-removed-from-pup-list

[BearFan PHX]

11 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Dude got kicked to the curb by more people before the first practice even started.

https://www.chicagobears.com/news/roster-move-chase-claypool-removed-from-pup-list

yeah who knows what that PUP was about. weird.

As far as the naysaying, I think Claypool has to show something this preseason. We didnt see any of it last year. We've heard the reasons. Maybe they're valid. I hope so. But until we see it, the perception remains. I am definitely cynical about the guy. I would gladly eat a bucket full of crow to turn him into a legit WR2. I just wouldnt bet anything on it right now, to his credit, either way.

[Mongo3451]

Listening to ESPN1000 today, they brought up a report from Silvey, a couple months ago, that claimed several sources from Halas Hall say that Claypool does not prioritize football.  He can still create his own narrative, but he has to work against his reputation and for himself now.  I believe it's to the point where he earns a two or three role as a starter or simply gets cut.  They aren't going to put up with half assed with an up and coming team.

[Mongo3451]

Duplicate

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

yeah who knows what that PUP was about. weird.

As far as the naysaying, I think Claypool has to show something this preseason. We didnt see any of it last year. We've heard the reasons. Maybe they're valid. I hope so. But until we see it, the perception remains. I am definitely cynical about the guy. I would gladly eat a bucket full of crow to turn him into a legit WR2. I just wouldnt bet anything on it right now, to his credit, either way.

Sure he does.  So does Mooney for that matter because he can't keep running the wrong routes like last year.  If injury is the metric for Claypool then Mooney is standing right beside him.   

Claypool.  46 games.  167 rec, 2184yds, 12 TD

Mooney.    45 games.  182 rec, 2179yds, 10 TD

Yes I know Mooney has a 1000yd season but he did that with 81rec on 140 targets.   That's a 57% catch rate and his career catch% is under 61%.   Claypool is worse for his career at 57%.    He was a miserable at 48% with the Bears last year but was at 64% with the Steelers before the trade.    

I don't know what an expectation is for a starting WR catch% in the NFL but above 65% is a Who's Who among NFL WRs.   I also realize a lot goes into that including Oline protection, QB, etc.  

FWIW Tonyan was 79% last year, Kmet 72.5%

I love Mooney and I like Claypool but when I look at it from the outside both have to prove it this year.   

[AZ54]

11 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Listening to ESPN1000 today, they brought up a report from Silvey, a couple months ago, that claimed several sources from Halas Hall say that Claypool does not prioritize football.  He can still create his own narrative, but he has to work against his reputation and for himself now.  I believe it's to the point where he earns a two or three role as a starter or simply gets cut.  They aren't going to put up with half assed with an up and coming team.

That's exactly what we got about Teven Jenkins last year but he seems to have settled in after a year of good coaching.  Time will tell but I think he at least deserves some time to prove himself just like we did with Tev last year.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yeah who knows what that PUP was about. weird.

Could it be the Bears are thinking of using him as a trade piece just as camp opens?  https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2023/07/23/edmunds-days-lb-shuffle-whats-up-with-chris-jones-and-other-bears-bullets/

[BearFan PHX]

51 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Sure he does.  So does Mooney for that matter because he can't keep running the wrong routes like last year.  If injury is the metric for Claypool then Mooney is standing right beside him.   

Claypool.  46 games.  167 rec, 2184yds, 12 TD

Mooney.    45 games.  182 rec, 2179yds, 10 TD

Yes I know Mooney has a 1000yd season but he did that with 81rec on 140 targets.   That's a 57% catch rate and his career catch% is under 61%.   Claypool is worse for his career at 57%.    He was a miserable at 48% with the Bears last year but was at 64% with the Steelers before the trade.    

I don't know what an expectation is for a starting WR catch% in the NFL but above 65% is a Who's Who among NFL WRs.   I also realize a lot goes into that including Oline protection, QB, etc.  

FWIW Tonyan was 79% last year, Kmet 72.5%

I love Mooney and I like Claypool but when I look at it from the outside both have to prove it this year.   

absolutely. and if anyone were to regress, it'd be a problem too. EVERYONE has to prove it on the field this year, and every year, but right now, we are looking like we are building something, but it's still very fragile.

The good news is that going into the 2024 draft, we will have that extra first rounder, lots of salary cap room and a strong idea of who is working out and who needs replacing.

I do think Mooney has at least put together a season to show he can do it, so there's that. But everyone's gotta ball out.

Maybe this is why Vegas says 7.5 wins, hedging some of these pieces not working out.

[BearFan PHX]

28 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Could it be the Bears are thinking of using him as a trade piece just as camp opens?  https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2023/07/23/edmunds-days-lb-shuffle-whats-up-with-chris-jones-and-other-bears-bullets/

I dunno what he is worth right now though. If he plays well in preseason and in September his trade value, and value to our team increases dramatically, but right now, here at the end of July with only his past, we probably couldnt even get a 4th for him. Probably a 6th rounder.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

42 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dunno what he is worth right now though. If he plays well in preseason and in September his trade value, and value to our team increases dramatically, but right now, here at the end of July with only his past, we probably couldnt even get a 4th for him. Probably a 6th rounder.

Interesting ‘goings on’ in the WR room right now for sure. During the time Claypool was put on the PUP and back off of it the Bears signed Isaiah Ford (formerly of Miami).  Besides Moore and Mooney, the Bears still have Velus Jones (who had a bit of a resurgence late in the season), drafted Tyler Scott in the 4th round and re-signed ESB and Dante Pettis (among a few other ‘also-rans’).  
 

Did Poles get duped by Claypool going on the PUP or did he have a ‘come to Jesus meeting’ with him similar to how they (maybe) did with Jenkins last year and convince Chase it would behoove him to show for training camp on day one?  

 

[Stinger226]

Claypool was reported practicing with Justin this off-season , he got a soft tissue injury and and now he gets questioned for everything. I think the team wanted to be cautious with his injury and then Claypool gets all this negative press. So he said he's all in. There are going to be some injuries but we have depth this year. Their not going to trade Claypool , if he plays well, he's an asset, if he plays poor, he's not worth trading for. 

We won't know until the end of the year whether it was a good trade or not. He's got talent, he's not the star but a #2 just like Mooney.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Claypool was reported practicing with Justin this off-season , he got a soft tissue injury and and now he gets questioned for everything. I think the team wanted to be cautious with his injury and then Claypool gets all this negative press. So he said he's all in. There are going to be some injuries but we have depth this year. Their not going to trade Claypool , if he plays well, he's an asset, if he plays poor, he's not worth trading for. 

We won't know until the end of the year whether it was a good trade or not. He's got talent, he's not the star but a #2 just like Mooney.

I doubt we'll ever know what his injury was but we do know a thing or two about Eberflus.  Last year he was very cautious with players returning from injury and required them to pass their full fitness test.  We don't know what's included in that but tidbits came out last year as Whitehair returned about him hitting his jump targets and other strength tests.  Other "healthy" players seemingly worked out on the sidelines during multiple practices before getting their release to practice.  it seems clear with this staff that you can't just pass a medical test to practice (i.e. injury has healed).  

Claypool was last with the team in Jun when he was injured and I don't recall people complaining about him missing any voluntary workouts.  Players leave for a month and I don't think the team can contact them or work with them during that time.  I could be wrong especially with injured players.  I don't find it surprising that he was started out on the PUP and I was expecting him to be sidelined for a few days while the team evaluated him, ramped up his workouts, and made sure he was ready to practice in full.  

That opens up a couple possibilities.  First, Claypool came in with the rookies early to check in with the trainers and prep for camp.  Because he reported early, and had been injured when last with the team, were the Bears required to list him on the PUP even though he was just meeting with the trainers?   Usually players get their fitness test the day after reporting to camp.   Did Claypool participate with the rookies fitness tests on Sun?  Did he do that knowing that if he couldn't pass he could get some additional prep work so he could be ready for the first practice on Thur?    

Second, whatever he was doing to get back in shape or stay in shape worked.  I can't imagine Flus would put him on and then take him off the PUP so quickly if he wasn't ready.  That just opened up more questions, but not only that, if Flus himself had all these "reported"  questions about Claypool's work ethic wouldn't he lean toward being more cautious and a slower ramp up?   Fields is the real prove it target this year not Claypool.  To evaluate him we need WRs.  No matter what you think of Claypool he is still one of our top 3 WRs because we really have poor depth until proven otherwise.  IIRC Flus sidelined one or two players who weren't up to his standards at the start of camp last year, maybe even Teven. 

I suppose it was remotely possible Chase was included in some  trade talks but even then what is the logic for doing the PUP designation so many days before the first practice.   The Bears could have kept it all under wraps and just had Claypool do his fitness test with rest of the vets on Wed and then put him on the PUP.   

If the Bears were just doing some shenanigans with the PUP before the veterans reported to camp wouldn't the league frown upon that?  We lost a practice last year because we broke the rules.  Would Flus and Poles risk that again?  That doesn't seem likely.  

[BearFan PHX]

I dont think we will ever know what the one day PUP was about. And I dont think it matters much. whatever it was, he has to prove it now. we can guess whether he will or wont (Im more negative on it) but it will unfold on the field, and I would love to be wrong.

[Stinger226]

Poles is going to talk weds to the press. Someone will ask him about the PUP deal. He's pretty straight forward on stuff. 

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I don't find it surprising that he was started out on the PUP and I was expecting him to be sidelined for a few days while the team evaluated him, ramped up his workouts, and made sure he was ready to practice in full.

It actually surprised me to see him placed on PUP, given that he was in Florida working with Fields.  That's why I said that Fields would be the one to judge his desire.  The Bears did not need to place him on the PUP, especially two days before he was required to be there.  That was, IMO, a ploy.  It's well documented how much Claypool loves his social media.  What better way to provide a good towel snap, than to set his Insta on fire with fan opinion.  I will also reference when my best friend spent a week are Steelers camp last year, when they brought in Ryan Clark and Brandon Marshall to work with him.  When all that effort leads to a trade, there is plenty of smoke to think there is some underlying fire.  I will stay on Claypool's side, as far as rooting for him to succeed is concerned, but will leave him in the doghouse until he fights himself out.  Jenkins fought his way out on the mental side, but is still a question on how he prepares his body.  This camp will get Tev out, while Chase has the same chance.  In the meantime, Steelers fans are celebrating the trade and the drafting of Joey Porter Jr.  More to come...

[adam]

It seems like it was just a procedural thing since he didn't participate before. So essentially they had to put him on the PUP to take him off it since he wasn't on it before but was injured. 

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

It actually surprised me to see him placed on PUP, given that he was in Florida working with Fields.  That's why I said that Fields would be the one to judge his desire.  The Bears did not need to place him on the PUP, especially two days before he was required to be there.  That was, IMO, a ploy.  It's well documented how much Claypool loves his social media.  What better way to provide a good towel snap, than to set his Insta on fire with fan opinion.  I will also reference when my best friend spent a week are Steelers camp last year, when they brought in Ryan Clark and Brandon Marshall to work with him.  When all that effort leads to a trade, there is plenty of smoke to think there is some underlying fire.  I will stay on Claypool's side, as far as rooting for him to succeed is concerned, but will leave him in the doghouse until he fights himself out.  Jenkins fought his way out on the mental side, but is still a question on how he prepares his body.  This camp will get Tev out, while Chase has the same chance.  In the meantime, Steelers fans are celebrating the trade and the drafting of Joey Porter Jr.  More to come...

Hmm that’s a realistic possibility.  I don’t doubt the history of his maturity issues.  I am curious to see if Fields and the coaches can bring him along.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

11 hours ago, AZ54 said:

 

It actually surprised me to see him placed on PUP, given that he was in Florida working with Fields. 

From the Twitter-verse, Fields confirms he was working with Claypool in the off-season and that he was ‘dealing with a knee issue’.  Perhaps some clarity to the PUP designation. 

 

[lemonej]

One rumor that was floating around Chicagoland was he hadn't passed a physical. Once he did so, he was taken off PUP.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Chase participated in a presser today post camp.  (He was on just after Mooney).  He was asked about the PUP designation and mentioned that he had 'nearly blew out his knee in the Packers game' (~week 14).   He said he wanted to go back in with a knee brace but was told to sit out the remainder of that game.  He was asked again about the reason for PUP designation at the very end of his interview and said 'it wasn't the reason for him being on it'.  'Mysterious PUP' designation aside, he appears poised and ready to contribute wholeheartedly to the team.  I look forward to him exceeding our expectations.