Week Something Official Game Thread - LVR @ CHI, SUN, sometime, on a channel, Raiders favored, blah blah blah

[Mongo3451]

Fun fact.  Tyson Bagent was the first un-drafted Division II quarterback to win a football game since 1950.  And this guy called it first!

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

The trend is he will be gone but he can change that trend if he balls out the rest of the way.(highly doubtful) He does have some talent, his 2 good games this year looked promising but he has to continue that. The potential of taking a good QB and since we will win some games it has to be Panthers playing bad. That is out of our control.

I believe some of his bad can be contributed to bad play calling and a hurt OL. A great QB should overcome that. What if he's just okay? Lot of just okay QBs in the NFL. Cousins, Goff, Prescott, Carr, Geno Smith, and Stafford. Some of them have won in spite of their talent.  I think Poles will evaluate the situation and make the right decision.

If the "bad QB" didn't come with so many lowlights of WRs wide open waving their hands at Fields then I could find it easier to buy the bad coaching, bad WRs, whatever excuse.  That doesn't mean there aren't some things the coaches could do better but....and this may sound odd... I don't want to simply win a few more games because Fields is an elite athlete.   I want him to be coached to be a complete QB and that includes passing from the pocket.   He has to prove he can be that guy.   So yeah put him in the box and force him to show he's that guy.  Or we let someone else work their offense around his limitations.  

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

If the "bad QB" didn't come with so many lowlights of WRs wide open waving their hands at Fields then I could find it easier to buy the bad coaching, bad WRs, whatever excuse.  That doesn't mean there aren't some things the coaches could do better but....and this may sound odd... I don't want to simply win a few more games because Fields is an elite athlete.   I want him to be coached to be a complete QB and that includes passing from the pocket.   He has to prove he can be that guy.   So yeah put him in the box and force him to show he's that guy.  Or we let someone else work their offense around his limitations.  

well said.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

If the "bad QB" didn't come with so many lowlights of WRs wide open waving their hands at Fields then I could find it easier to buy the bad coaching, bad WRs, whatever excuse.  That doesn't mean there aren't some things the coaches could do better but....and this may sound odd... I don't want to simply win a few more games because Fields is an elite athlete.   I want him to be coached to be a complete QB and that includes passing from the pocket.   He has to prove he can be that guy.   So yeah put him in the box and force him to show he's that guy.  Or we let someone else work their offense around his limitations.  

They tried that at the beginning of the season and it was miserable.  When they asked Flus about it, he said, "you have to be able to be successful from the pocket to succeed in the NFL".  Justin said, a couple weeks later, "that he needs to play free-er".

We've seen the failures of Justin in the pocket.  We've seen the successes of Justin playing free.  My problem with all of it is, we are still surprised when he does something great.  And we are getting sick of him "not seeing it" especially when are screaming, because we see it.

Through three years of Justin, we are still making arguments for and against, just like we did Trubisky.  All the while, Trubisky was better.

I don't care what anyone says about Bagent.  He is already better than Fields.  I'm done with the lack of urgency that Mr Cool Justin displays every time he gets on the field.  Every cool motion he does gives the defense another millisecond to react.  I'm out...

[Stinger226]

57 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

They tried that at the beginning of the season and it was miserable.  When they asked Flus about it, he said, "you have to be able to be successful from the pocket to succeed in the NFL".  Justin said, a couple weeks later, "that he needs to play free-er".

We've seen the failures of Justin in the pocket.  We've seen the successes of Justin playing free.  My problem with all of it is, we are still surprised when he does something great.  And we are getting sick of him "not seeing it" especially when are screaming, because we see it.

Through three years of Justin, we are still making arguments for and against, just like we did Trubisky.  All the while, Trubisky was better.

I don't care what anyone says about Bagent.  He is already better than Fields.  I'm done with the lack of urgency that Mr Cool Justin displays every time he gets on the field.  Every cool motion he does gives the defense another millisecond to react.  I'm out...

Like or dislike Fields , there is merit on both sides of that argument but one game on Bagent just isn't enough of tape to judge.

The best case scenario is Bagent looks good in a win and then Justin balls out the rest of the season. Then trade Justin for a 1 st rounder and load the team with blue chip players and roll with Bagent next year and draft a QB prospect in mid rounds. You will still have a few first round picks in 2025 if Bagent doesn't work out. 

[Mongo3451]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Then trade Justin for a 1 st rounder and load the team with blue chip players and roll with Bagent next year and draft a QB prospect in mid rounds. You will still have a few first round picks in 2025 if Bagent doesn't work out. 

I like that, but still draft one of the top two.  If Bagent still balls out, you got trade deadline bait.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I like that, but still draft one of the top two.  If Bagent still balls out, you got trade deadline bait.

Poles has several ways to go and I think they all could end up  having been good choices. 

Keep Fields and Bagent, one of them ends up good. Draft blue chip players

You trade Fields at the draft, get a #1, draft a QB and draft some blue chip players.

Trade Fields at the draft, draft a prospect not in the first round. Go with Bagent and a prospect. Use your 3 first round picks on blue chip players. If the QB situation doesnt pan out , grab one in 2025. Figuring Poles makes some trades and has a couple firsts in 2025.

[BearFan PHX]

I don't see us trading Fields and then not taking a QB in the top half of the first round.

I also don't think Fields is worth a first rounder right now. Maybe if he plays much better than we've seen so far down the stretch. i suppose if he does that, we might keep him too. But if he doesnt improve dramatically in terms of tempo getting the ball out and throwing with anticipation, then he's not gonna be on our team and hes not gonna be worth a first round pick either.

Either way we need more than a developmental player at QB, and i dont think you can go into 2024 thinking Bagent is your starter and the starter of the future. you COULD see a top draft pick sit behind Bagent for the first half of the season, like the plan was for Trubisky and Fields behind Glennon and Dalton, but that's still anticipating having the rookie be your starter at the end of the year and going forward.

No way we're going with Bagent and a 5th rounder.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I don't see us trading Fields and then not taking a QB in the top half of the first round.

I also don't think Fields is worth a first rounder right now. Maybe if he plays much better than we've seen so far down the stretch. i suppose if he does that, we might keep him too. But if he doesnt improve dramatically in terms of tempo getting the ball out and throwing with anticipation, then he's not gonna be on our team and hes not gonna be worth a first round pick either.

Either way we need more than a developmental player at QB, and i dont think you can go into 2024 thinking Bagent is your starter and the starter of the future. you COULD see a top draft pick sit behind Bagent for the first half of the season, like the plan was for Trubisky and Fields behind Glennon and Dalton, but that's still anticipating having the rookie be your starter at the end of the year and going forward.

No way we're going with Bagent and a 5th rounder.

The rest of the year has to play out and the picture will be clearer. I was thinking of someone like a JJ McCarthy in the 3 rd but not sure how the draft positioning plays out. We don't know what Poles will like in a QB. He may fall in love with Williams and options will be gone. The key is it has to play out. I'm just not sure it's as simple as Fields or Williams.

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

The rest of the year has to play out and the picture will be clearer. I was thinking of someone like a JJ McCarthy in the 3 rd but not sure how the draft positioning plays out. We don't know what Poles will like in a QB. He may fall in love with Williams and options will be gone. The key is it has to play out. I'm just not sure it's as simple as Fields or Williams.

Im not saying WIlliams per se, just a top pick.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

The rest of the year has to play out and the picture will be clearer. I was thinking of someone like a JJ McCarthy in the 3 rd but not sure how the draft positioning plays out

If Harbaugh does end up being a lead contender for HC, he’s had nothing but good things to say about McCarthy as his collegiate HC.  And he (Harbaugh) does have some familiarity with Fields from the Big 10 (getting beat 56-27 by him the one time they met). So maybe he’d be interested as a HC if he truly thinks his current QB is as good as he thinks and he’s still able to evaluate credible talent at the postion? 
 

 https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/jim-harbaugh-says-j-j-mccarthy-is-a-once-in-a-generational-qb-compares-him-to-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen/amp/

[AZ54]

16 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

If Harbaugh does end up being a lead contender for HC, he’s had nothing but good things to say about McCarthy as his collegiate HC.  And he (Harbaugh) does have some familiarity with Fields from the Big 10 (getting beat 56-27 by him the one time they met). So maybe he’d be interested as a HC if he truly thinks his current QB is as good as he thinks and he’s still able to evaluate credible talent at the postion? 
 

 https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/jim-harbaugh-says-j-j-mccarthy-is-a-once-in-a-generational-qb-compares-him-to-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen/amp/

I don't think I know anyone who trusts Jim Harbaugh.  I can't imagine Poles would want to deal with a head case like Harbaugh on personnel decisions. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I don't think I know anyone who trusts Jim Harbaugh.  I can't imagine Poles would want to deal with a head case like Harbaugh on personnel decisions. 

FWIW he did make it to a Super Bowl with Kaepernick (some would say similar qualities to Fields) and is on the verge of making the college playoffs as the currently ranked #2 team in the nation.  I would agree that Harbaugh has a lot of character and one that Poles and maybe even Warren wouldn't want to contend with but you'd be silly to not at least consider.  

[AZ54]

9 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

FWIW he did make it to a Super Bowl with Kaepernick (some would say similar qualities to Fields) and is on the verge of making the college playoffs as the currently ranked #2 team in the nation.  I would agree that Harbaugh has a lot of character and one that Poles and maybe even Warren wouldn't want to contend with but you'd be silly to not at least consider.  

Never said he wasn't a good coach.  Go into the way back machine and find my posts about him as a future Bears HC candidate from his days at Stanford.  He's had plenty of ego issues in SF and then again at Mich.  Maybe that has abated and he's found his calling...

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-football-wolverines-jim-harbaugh-contract-warde-manuel-big-ten

“I love the relationships that I have at Michigan. Coaches, staff, families, administration, President Santa Ono and especially the players and their families,” said Harbaugh back in January. “My heart is at the University of Michigan. I once heard a wise man say, ‘Don’t try to out-happy, happy.’ Go Blue!"

 

As candidates go I'd like Matt Campbell but I'm also selfish in that I like him staying at Iowa St.  I think he gets more out of the talent he has than you'd expect.  You see results of good coaching in Purdy, Breece Hall, Montgomery, and a few others in the NFL.  

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

28 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

You see results of good coaching in Purdy

While watching a Nebraska game recently I happened to notice that Brock's younger brother Chubba plays for them.  Was curious if you were familiar why Chubba didn't follow his brother to Iowa State but it appears he actually went to Fla State before transferring to Nebraska.  https://www.profootballnetwork.com/who-is-chubba-purdy-meet-brock-purdys-brother-lifestyle-2023/

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

While watching a Nebraska game recently I happened to notice that Brock's younger brother Chubba plays for them.  Was curious if you were familiar why Chubba didn't follow his brother to Iowa State but it appears he actually went to Fla State before transferring to Nebraska.  https://www.profootballnetwork.com/who-is-chubba-purdy-meet-brock-purdys-brother-lifestyle-2023/

Nah, I don't follow those things that closely and although Purdy is from my home town he grew up on the southern part of it about 8-10 miles away from where I live.